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Old 02-02-2003, 11:55 PM   #1
tnord
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Unhappy oh me oh my

wo is me...............wo is me........

i really want to sell the 240, but i can't figure out what car i want next. i was bored so i thought i'd post this up. these are the cars i'm currently considering. you guys know me, you know what i do, you know what the car will be used for. feel free to give input (not that i care).

wo is me.........

E30 M3
E36 M3
E36 328is
Acura Integra Type R
Acura NSX
Acura RSX-S
Mazdaspeed Protoge
Mazda Miata (for Spec Miata)
350Z
S13 SR equipped
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Old 02-02-2003, 11:59 PM   #2
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That is a nice list of cars. I dont believe you could go wrong on any path you choose to walk down. My personal pref. I would like to have a NSX to play with.
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Old 02-03-2003, 12:01 AM   #3
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in order...

Mazda Miata (for Spec Miata)
E30 M3
E36 M3
Acura NSX
E36 328is
350Z
Acura Integra Type R
S13 SR equipped
Mazdaspeed Protoge
Acura RSX-S

Edit: fyi, money was no consideration in this list
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Old 02-03-2003, 12:13 AM   #4
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What?? No Neon SRT??

Drive your damn car past the 100k warranty already. Or just **** the warranty and turbo your POS.
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Old 02-03-2003, 12:28 AM   #5
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bah..........SRT is a good car, i just despise the interiors. i've driven neons before and hated them, whereas i've driven integras and protoges before and liked them.
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Old 02-03-2003, 01:05 AM   #6
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What could you race the S13 SR in?
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Old 02-03-2003, 01:08 AM   #7
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I've heard that Protoges handle very, very well.
Woe is me, I have mismatched body panels.
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Old 02-03-2003, 01:44 AM   #8
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Did you see his posts in the silvia badge thread, give him a break, some people can't give logical reasons to back up their opinions.

Anyway, for me price plays a pretty big role in the cars I drive. And whether you have a lot of money or not, I think it is the same for most people.

With that said, here's my order:

Mazda Miata (for Spec Miata)
Acura Integra Type R
S13 SR equipped (don't know what class, waiting for your response there)
Acura RSX-S
E30 M3
E36 M3
E36 328is
350Z
Acura NSX
Mazdaspeed Protoge

I think that's pretty accurate, haven't looked into all those cars too much and certainly haven't driven very many of them. I especially don't know much about the Protege (except the t-2small turbo)

I think the Integra would be a very nice car. I would get sick of the FWD in about 2 min. But they are pretty fast

I'm a little hesitant on the 350z, I think it's a really cool car, but they don't seem to be selling really well in Minneapolis (buck hill walser nissan) and I think if you waited a year or so you could pick them up a lot cheaper.

I also don't know much about the miata, I am too scared of the image of driving one to even consider them

I don't know what advantage you would get going with the sr in the s13 instead of a mild turbo KA, but that's up to you (I'm biased) I just thought it was odd you brought that one up
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Old 02-03-2003, 01:51 AM   #9
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S13SR would be the daily driver.......and could compete in DR or one of the new classes created by MCSCC, i'd just have to toss a cage in it, which i don't have a problem with. i'd rather have the S13 due to the price (figure i can weasel one for 6-7k). this leaves me $ to begin work on the SM as well. And i haven't had a turbo car since i was 18, when i didn't know jack squat.

the 350Z is on there because
1) i think it's pretty badass
2) through work i can get one for $100 over dealer cost, which i figure to be in the neighborhood of 23k for the options i want (lsd and xenon lights only).

i don't give a **** about the image of the miata.......it's gonna be a race car......so if somebody wants to make fun of my race car.....then they're infinitely more queer than i am.

the S13SR and the protoge is a long shot, but other than that, i'm favoring them all pretty equally right now.
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Old 02-03-2003, 02:21 AM   #10
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This is what I heard too. I can't remember if it was Motor Trend or Car and Driver, but one of those two said the Mazdaspeed Protege was the best handling FWD car they have EVER tested, and was their new benchmark. I think the Integra used to be that benchmark. I believe the Mazdaspeed Protege has the potential to be helluva car.

Quote:
Originally posted by adey
I've heard that Protoges handle very, very well.
Woe is me, I have mismatched body panels.
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Old 02-03-2003, 08:30 AM   #11
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E36 M3. Would take it over the E30 after many long discussions with onebadm5 about the cars. It will be a lot less painfull in the wallet, at least in the long run travis. I dont know too much about the protoge, and I would steer clear of the NSX for cost reasons. Everything else seems to be a pretty good choice, but I would still start searching for the ///M.
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Old 02-03-2003, 08:48 AM   #12
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So you don't like my "make your DD a wagon" advice, huh? For shame. I don't see a nice 540 on there either. Tsk tsk.

Okay, my list from your options:

1. SM
4. E36 328
6. MS Prot. (rave reviews and a company that LOVES racers - zoom zoom)
7. E36 M3 (insurance and maintenance makes it a middling value over the 328)
10. ITR (maybe getting old w/ the new prot and RSX-R coming... ins/theft sucks)
11. RSX-S (I'm shocked this isn't higher on my list - this is a practical choice)
14. 350z (I love that car, but it isn't very practical)
19. s13 SR swap (it's a DD, not a race car - impractical and maintenance intensive)
20. E30 M3 (M is for money pit)
21. NSX (impractical for a DD; maintenance = $arm$ + $leg$; upgrades = $first born$)

My list includes the idea that if you buy the Miata, it will eventually become a spec car and you'll have this decision to remake in 1-2 years. At that point, a tow vehicle might make your list. The other factor is cost of ownership. Some of those cars you listed are reasonable, some are tremendous. M3's ain't cheap in any way. Ditto NSXs. ITRs are outrageous to insure, but are a good "value" - at least until the next "best thing" comes along (which I think it about has). New cars depreciate too much. 4 doors are more practical that 2 (and a DD is all about practicality).
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Old 02-03-2003, 09:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by HippoSleek
So you don't like my "make your DD a wagon" advice, huh? For shame. I don't see a nice 540 on there either. Tsk tsk.

Okay, my list from your options:

1. SM
4. E36 328
6. MS Prot. (rave reviews and a company that LOVES racers - zoom zoom)
7. E36 M3 (insurance and maintenance makes it a middling value over the 328)
10. ITR (maybe getting old w/ the new prot and RSX-R coming... ins/theft sucks)
11. RSX-S (I'm shocked this isn't higher on my list - this is a practical choice)
14. 350z (I love that car, but it isn't very practical)
19. s13 SR swap (it's a DD, not a race car - impractical and maintenance intensive)
20. E30 M3 (M is for money pit)
21. NSX (impractical for a DD; maintenance = $arm$ + $leg$; upgrades = $first born$)


I agree with Hippo's list, just what I was thinking! The only downside is I think Miata's are kinda Chick-Cars on the street. I still think the E36 3 series is a best buy for all around usage. You cannot go wrong with one of them.

EDIT: WTF? Where did you learn to count? hahah i must be missing something.
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Old 02-03-2003, 02:49 PM   #14
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i'm not buying no stinking wagon for daily/track use. i don't have any kids/dog/or anything else i need that much space for. if i bought a miata, you're damn right it'd be turned into a SM, that's the only reason i'd buy it. the thing is it'd be finished by the end of summer, and i'd once again need another car.

i agree that the insurance on the E36M3 might be a bit much, but i really don't know. other than the usual BMW electrical gremlins, they are pretty bulletproof. the NSX on the other hand i'm going to have to disagree. i found a bit of information stating that the cost of owning an NSX is $.19 per mile, pretty damn reasonable. the insurance on one is supposed to be less than that of an ITR depending on where you live (theft), and is probably the same or less than a 240 as well. maintenence on an NSX isn't worse than any other car listed there, and less than others. and with 2 trunks, the NSX in my opinion really does become a practical, affordable exotic (considering i could get one for low 20's). yeah upgrades are pricey......but what do you really want to do on an NSX?? exhaust and headers can't be much if any more than that for a BMW ($1000+ for each), wheels are wheels, seats are seats; the spot where i'd get killed is suspension. if there is a DC5R on the way soon, i'll probably end up with that; but you really can't count on hearing anything about it until a month or less before it is released. judging by the value of DC2R's, deprectiation on this thing really isn't an issue. the issue i have with the E36 328 is that if you can spend basically the same amount of money, and get an OBDI M3, but with more miles. or you can spend less money and get an E30 M3, but with higher cost of ownership. and both M's will outperform the 328. this is where insurance costs come into play. i'm sure my agent will be very happy when i come in asking for a pricing list of all these cars.

i really don't need that practical of a car, i mean, how practical is a 240 for a DD in the first place??

basically what i can't decide on doing is buying a nice used car, a nice new car, or a used car that i can punk with. i guess i have no idea what i want..........except that i want them all.
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Old 02-03-2003, 03:46 PM   #15
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Keep the 240.. buy a 90-93 Miata, don't insure it, just prep it. then you got a 240, and a pimpy race car for SM. (this is what I was thinking about doing if I don't use the 240 as the race car.) Or you could sell the 240 and buy a truck to tow the SM with.

Mazdaspeed kicks ass from the factory, but is limited by it's tranny from what I hear - and chitty seats w/ no bolstering.
DC5R will be out (according to an email from Acura to my friends Acura dealer) sometime in December as a 2004 model.
TypeR has expensive insurance and ever present paranoia..


I don't think you could go wrong buying a Miata.. Tons of aftermarket support (suspension, FI, brakes, etc..), light weight, your own spec series, and its a roadster.. what more could you ask for?

Or you could just pick up the Ferrari Challenge car Hippo posted the other day.

so I guess for posterities sake. Taking into consideration this is to be a DD.. my list:

Mazda Miata (for Spec Miata)
Mazdaspeed Protoge
Acura RSX-S - or Type R
Acura Integra Type R
350z
S13 SR equipped
Acura NSX

(left out the bimmers b/c I know jack about them..)
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Old 02-03-2003, 04:21 PM   #16
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if the DC5R really will be out in Dec......i probably will keep the 240. can i possibly get a copy of the e-mail your friend received, i promise i won't distribute it to other honda forums or anything like that. or does anybody have any other information about how it will be equipped, if it will be released, when, etc....

i've heard the same about the transmissions, but with the amount of power the Speed WCTC are producing, there must be a solution for that already. chitty seats aren't a problem, whatever car i get next is getting some nice Sparco's.

the miata will happen. it's not a matter of if, but when.
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Old 02-03-2003, 09:00 PM   #17
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See, I think there is a big difference between HAVING a race car and PLANNING for a race car. I thought the underlying assumption was that a SM was coming and you were looking for a DD. That's where my list won't make any sense for you.

If you were planning on tracking it, sure, go for a 95ish M3. Pay the premium insurance and premium maintenance (yes - it is significantly more). That is the trade off. I assumed you were planning on having another car that was for track only. You don't really need ITR or M3 performance for the streets (actually, you might enjoy something with some level of comfort)... provided you get your on-course kicks in something more exciting.

There's an old saying: you don't sh!t where you eat.

To me, that means having two cars - one to flog, one to expect to use. Seeing as how a 240's lack of utility is only surpassed by a 350z, NSX, or Miata, I can't imagine owning something LESS useful. Hell, I bought a new desk chair and printer yesterday and it was hillarious fitting them into my car. I almost had to return the desk chair until I could come back w/ my gf's piece. There's a point where you get sick of sh!t like that and want a practical car.
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Old 02-03-2003, 10:06 PM   #18
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i think a used miata would be the most fun car for the money. and there would be a lot of tech support when modifying for spec miata. but that's just me. i don't know much about the sport but it looks like fun and seems cheap.
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Old 02-03-2003, 10:13 PM   #19
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the SM is coming........it's just a matter of when. if i get a nicer car, it'll get put off for a while ( a year give or take). but if i get a cheap car, i could probably start on it this summer. those types of practicality things are encountered when you have a house and are 100% independent.......seeing as how i'm not there yet (probably live with parents for 1 more year).....fitting any large items into the car/hauling people isn't an issue..."dad, can i borrow the tahoe/maxima?"

realistically.......the NSX probably won't happen just yet, but after digging into it a little bit, as soon as i can afford a 3rd/4th car, that will probably be it. as of right now, it's probably between the E36's and the type r's.

or maybe.............anybody got a 95/96 they wanna trade + cash???
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Old 02-03-2003, 10:37 PM   #20
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travis, If I was planning to build a race car, I would just buy some cheap form of A to B transportation and put the rest of my money into the racer.
I know I've said this before but this just seems like your best option from my POV.
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Old 02-03-2003, 11:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by DSC
travis, If I was planning to build a race car, I would just buy some cheap form of A to B transportation and put the rest of my money into the racer.
I know I've said this before but this just seems like your best option from my POV.
but can't i have my cake and eat it to?

no matter how fast i got the SM done ( unless i got it done before may - not possible), i couldn't use it for W2W until the 2004 season. although i suppose i could AX it just as i would whatever car i end up with.
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Old 02-03-2003, 11:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by tnord
if the DC5R really will be out in Dec......i probably will keep the 240. can i possibly get a copy of the e-mail your friend received, i promise i won't distribute it to other honda forums or anything like that. or does anybody have any other information about how it will be equipped, if it will be released, when, etc....
...ok.. Found the email.. after reading again it appears to be from a forum.. pretty sure my roommate said they came from someone at Acura. interesting... it only weighs 2557 lbs

"2004 RSX Type-R
Long time no see to all the regulars (most of 'em are moderator now LOL!!)

Anyway, (to newbies who couldn't read my post long time ago along with my other predictions such as Civic Si, six speed 3.2 CL) Type-R will be arriving to US in 2003 (mid-season) or early 2004 (highly unlikely)...VERY LIMITED (less then 1000) for those who were interested. For those who already know this, iggy this post.

specs:


COUNTRY OF ORIGIN

Country of origin Japan

WARRANTY

Warranty - description 3 yr, 100,000km, 3 yr paint, 6 yr corrosion
Warranty - vehicle in years 3
Warranty - vehicle in km 100,000
Warranty - paint in years 3
Warranty - perforation corrosion in years 6
Minor service interval (oil change - km) 10,000
Major service interval (km) 40,000

ENGINE

Engine code K20A2
Engine location Front
Engine orientation Transverse
Engine description Four cylinders, in-line, chain-driven DOHC, four valves per cylinder, variable valve timing and lift, all alloy, cast-iron cylinder liners.
Configuration In-line
Cylinders 4cyl
Cam drive Chain
Valve train DOHC
Valves per cylinder 4v
Variable valve actuation Timing and lift
Block material Aluminium alloy
Cylinder liners Cast-iron
Sump material Aluminium alloy
Head material Aluminium alloy
Inlet manifold material Aluminium alloy
Capacity (cm3) 1998cm3
Bore & Stroke 86.0x86.0mm
Bore 86.0mm
Stroke 86.0mm
Compression ratio 11.0:1
Maximum power 220hp
Maximum torque 156*
Induction system Electronic port fuel injection
Fuel system type PFI
Fuel type 95 RON PULP (89 octane unleaded or higher)
Fuel tank capacity 50 litres

HOW BIG

Body construction Monocoque
Length (mm) 4400
Width (mm) 1725
Height (mm) 1400
Wheelbase (mm) 2570
Track - front (mm) 1485
Track - rear (mm) 1485
Kerb mass (kg) 1160
Tare mass (kg) 1160
Ground clearance (mm) 112
Seating capacity 4
Head room - front (mm) 960
Head room - second row/rear (mm) 866

SUSPENSION

Suspension/front description Independent, MacPherson struts, fabricated steel lower A-arms, steel sub-frame, coil springs, gas dampers, jointed mount anti-roll bar
Suspension/fr - axle Independent
Suspension/fr - upper link material Pressed steel
Suspension/fr - upper link MacPherson strut
Suspension/fr - lower link material Fabricated steel
Suspension/fr - lower link A-arm
Suspension/fr - frame material Steel
Suspension/fr - suspension mounting Sub-frame
Suspension/fr - spring type Coil
Suspension/fr - damper type Gas
Suspension/fr - stabiliser bar Jointed mount
Suspension/rear description Independent, double wishbones, fabricated steel, lower A-arm, fabricated steel upper I-arm, steel sub-frame, coil springs, gas dampers, jointed mount anti-roll bar
Suspension/rr - axle Independent
Suspension/rr - upper link material Fabricated steel
Suspension/rr - upper link I-arm
Suspension/rr - lower link material Fabricated steel
Suspension/rr - lower link A-arm
Suspension/rr - frame material Steel
Suspension/rr - suspension mounting Sub-frame
Suspension/rr - spring type Coil
Suspension/rr - damper type Gas
Suspension/rr - stabiliser bar Jointed mount
Independent rear suspension (IRS) STD
Sports suspension STD
Gas dampers STD
Limited slip differential STD
Four wheel discs STD

STEERING

Steering description Rack and pinion, power assisted
Steering type Rack and pinion
Steering operation Power assisted
Turning circle - between kerbs (metres) 11.6
Steering ratio 15.1:1
Turns lock to lock 2.53

TRANSMISSION

Transmission description Six speed manual
Transmission type 6 man
Ratio 1 3.266:1
Ratio 2 2.130:1
Ratio 3 1.517:1
Ratio 4 1.212:1
Ratio 5 0.972:1
Ratio 6 0.780:1
Reverse 3.583:1
Final drive ratio 4.764:1
Final drive location Front

WHEELS

Brakes ABS is standard
ABS type Nissin NK8
ABS - number of channels 3
ABS - number of sensors 4
ABS - operation All wheels
Front brake description Ventilated discs
Front - diameter (mm) 300
Front - thickness (mm) 25
Rear brake description Discs
Rear - diameter (mm) 260
Rear - thickness (mm) 9
Parkbrake Centre lever
Rim material Alloy
Front rim description 6.5JJx16
Front rim width 6.5
Front rim contour designation JJ
Front rim diameter 16
Rear rim description 6.5JJx16
Rear rim width 6.5
Rear rim contour designation JJ
Rear rim diameter 16
Tyre brand Bridgestone Potenza RE030
Front tyre description 205/55 R16 89V
Front tyre - width 205
Front tyre - aspect ratio 55
Front tyre - construction Radial
Front tyre - load index 89
Front tyre - speed rating V
Rear tyre description 205/55 R16 89V
Rear tyre - width 205
Rear tyre - aspect ratio 55
Rear tyre - construction Radial
Rear tyre - load index 89
Rear tyre - speed rating V
Spare rim Steel spacesaver
Spare tyre T125/70 D16 96M
Spare tyre brand Bridgestone Tracompa
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Old 02-04-2003, 06:49 PM   #23
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if you know the spec miata is enevitable, why delay it? if your going to be living with your parents for another year, then might as well worry about building a full-spec racecar while your not worrying about having to pay for morgatge(sp?) gas/cable etc. too?
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Old 02-04-2003, 07:29 PM   #24
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one problem is........where the hell do i put it?? my parents 2 cars take up the garage, i use the street (so not to get tree sap on the car), and my sister uses the driveway. that's a minor issue though. another issue is that i'm not quite sure if i can handle w2w racing yet........i mean i'm 90% sure i can......but.....also, at least when you buy a normal car you'll get some money back if you want to sell it. a race car; if you crash it, 7k dollars potentially gone.

thanks a lot chimp, that's fairly convincing even though i don't know exactly where that came from. i see we got screwed on the 17'' wheels, and i thought the JDM DC5R had vented rotors at both ends, but at least we got the LSD, and hopefully the recaro's and red carpets

i might have to call a couple dealers and see if i can weasel some information out of them, i know just who to call to. if there's only gonna be 1k of them, i better put down my damn deposit right now.

220hp and 2500lbs.......that won't be fast at all
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Old 02-04-2003, 07:32 PM   #25
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self-storage lots usually can sotre cars too...but if your not ready for w2w, then it's not worth potentially getting yourself in over your head, and crashing, losing all of the money youve put in, like you said
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Old 02-04-2003, 08:52 PM   #26
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I think you may need to make a 3-5 year plan. Figure out where you want to be in that time frame. When I decided I was going W2W racing I basically made a business plan as to how I was going to accomplish this goal.

If you plan on being a track whore, buy a pickup or some type of tow vehicle. This will be invaluable. Yeah I know it kinda sucks to drive everyday, but that is only one of the small sacrifices you will ahve to make to achieve your goals. Every racer I know has a tow vehicle. Some go the route of a piece of **** tow vehicle that sits in between events, other buy a decent truck that is driven everyday. Before I bought my truck I loathed the thought of having to buy one, but now... I dont know how I could live without one. Escpecially if you are going to buy a house someday. I allows you to carry all the gear necessary to have a fun weekend at thre track, and get to and fro comfortably without the worry of "what if my car breaks or I crash it".

As far as worrying about crashing something, it is really not a matter of if, it is when. You may not have a big incident, but if you do this stuff long enough, you WILL have an incident. It is all the nature of the beast. Pushing it to the limit while trying not to cross over that line. So just accept that fact.

In my driving "career" (if it could be called that) I made the decision after working in business that I was not going to pursue a career in racing, rather I decided I would keep it as a hobby and do things on my own terms (readut of my own pocket). Then I determined at what level I wanted to enjoy the sport. I decided that I would instruct for different clubs to get the free tracktime and run IT. My future plans are to either get into a spec ford or if the right oppotunity comes along move into nationals SS. I intend on running IT for a couple of years while I raise the kids and grow my business. Get the kids invovled and move up a class. I know that I will need to upgrade my tow vehicle to a duelly and enclosed trailer before I move up in the car.

So anyway... theres a few thoughts that popped into my head
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Old 02-04-2003, 10:49 PM   #27
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a 3-5 year plan would be useful. all i have so far is build SM and acquire W2W novice liscense within 2 years. as far as the tow vehicle thing, until i get sufficient funds my tow vehicle will consist of this: "daddy, can i borrow the tahoe to tow my race car?"
and my trailor will consist of this: "hey micheal best friend....can i borrow one of your 3 trailors to to my race car, which happens to be a SM just like yours, and then we can race together if you let me borrow it........pretty please."

i've got tow vehicle in the plans.......if i get a new car, or keep the 240, it'll be stored in the winter, which is when i plan to get the tow vehicle (high mileage V8 truck).
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Old 02-06-2003, 10:17 AM   #28
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well fellas.......
so i'm layin in bed awake last night, thinking about what else? cars. most specifically, my next one. after thinking about all the fun i could have with a nice street car, it's still not as cool as going up to chicks in the bar and saying "hi, i'm travis, i drive race cars." not to mention the fact that a very close friend of mine Micheal the Englishman (the guy who got me into all this BS), is also building a SM this summer, and his dad runs a Datsun 1600 roadster, when Micheal isn't driving it himself. how much fun would it be for all 3 of us to be out there at the same time? so......my NEW plan consist of the following:

1) keep the 240
2) buy a miata ASAP
3) run the miata in AX until i get my W2W liscense
4) if the DC5R comes out, i'll put down my 240 as the down payment

and.....if the miata is out of commission getting some work done to it (say a roll cage), then i still have the 240 i can bring and fart around in. i'm thinking this may help with insurance as well. I can't imagine a 10+ year old miata is as bad to insure as my 98 240, so i'd list the miata as my main driver, and 240 as occasional.

SM here i come.........
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Old 02-06-2003, 11:33 AM   #29
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As not fun as it is, I think you are making the right choice. That is exactly what I would be doing, if it weren't for the facts that: a) I already drive my 240 less than 7K mi/year; b) I don't drive to work; c) I have a live-in GF w/ a car (who does all our shopping); d) I need two impractical cars like I need two matches to burn money with; and e) I can all but make the SM a race car w/o removing it from the streets until the final hour. Well, that and the fact that I have zero interest in a fwd sports car as a DD (I'll be smokin' teggies in my sport wagon, yo).

Basically, buy the Miata (w/ hardtop) and a $350 Hard Dog Hard Top bar and you can go play - in something almost as fast as the 240! How can that be wrong? Plus, over the summer, you'll get the feel for the car and get the little maintenance BS done with so you can enjoy it next year as a w2w car.
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Old 02-06-2003, 01:31 PM   #30
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i think the miata will be faster.

i think the ol 1.6 cranks out about 113whp in stock form, then toss on an open exhaust, mild intake, some port matching (if it's allowed), advanced timing by 10 degrees (rumor has it this yields 10hp *shrug*), and a driver included weight of around 2100 lbs, i think it'll be damn quick.

i don't plan on running a hardtop, i would like to enjoy some open cockpit competition. i know it heps straightline speeds a fair amount, but speeds shouldn't get much past 95mph at the track i'm at most frequently. and those things are damn expensive.

hopefully if i can get things done quick enough, i'll be able to go through the final drivers school of the season, and MAYBE, MAYBE compete in the final race.
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