This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[Bink Industries]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Answer: Cor Integration sway bar.

its not the only one. i will be releasing this soon. in the finaly prototype phases. this bar can be seen on Joon Maengs current 2013 240sx drift car. so yes it clears LS1 It actualy hits the PSM FLCA before my swaybar You can also see the additional rates which can be swaped out for more tuning options.

[Bink Industries]

here is a teaser as well

2 peice laser cut and cnc bent chromoly inserts

2 inch roll center drop

still confirming all the other numbers (dont want to claim something and have it not do that haha)

i will be competative with the leading competitions angle and my own ackerman set up.

a have spent 3 months researching other products and noticed alot of problems with som gold and orange colored products
so instead of nocking off or basing my product off of theres i started fromscratch in CAD. Made a jig based off of measurements in cad and built the part in the jig. its more accurate that way (well at lest in this case)

i will keep you guys updated on info after the test tonight. Pro driver Joon maeng will be testing this on my personal R and D car so i will have some driver feed back as well.

[jaysgottaredtop]

PBM will probably be making swaybars soon too.

...and then shipping them out by August of 2015



on a completely unrelated note, where are those knuckles you said i was gonna receive a month ago?

[Bink Industries]

Originally Posted by jaysgottaredtop

PBM will probably be making swaybars soon too.

...and then shipping them out by August of 2015



on a completely unrelated note, where are those knuckles you said i was gonna receive a month ago?

on a boat coming from CHINA............takes along time to row a shipping container

I trust not

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by koukistylejdm

it has evrything , ruca, toe-rod, traction rod, rlca just drop knuckles missing

rear traction rods set too short, inducing heavy toe change on suspension movement. It adds a lot of toe out on droop, which makes the car über twitchy on braking and feels like the car wants to steer itself on acceleration (because both rear suspensions usually dont compress exactly the same, and the toe change rate being important, your rear wheels wont have symetry at all)

Dont ask me how i know that ...

[!Zar!]

Figs Engineering just made this for my friend's IS300.

[xilovelsdx]

Originally Posted by jaysgottaredtop

PBM will probably be making swaybars soon too.

...and then shipping them out by August of 2015



on a completely unrelated note, where are those knuckles you said i was gonna receive a month ago?

Next week is the last damn week of May. Knew I should of just thrown on my MA knuckles before these came in.

[rbs14kouki]

Originally Posted by N8 of S-Empire

its not the only one. i will be releasing this soon. in the finaly prototype phases. this bar can be seen on Joon Maengs current 2013 240sx drift car. so yes it clears LS1 It actualy hits the PSM FLCA before my swaybar You can also see the additional rates which can be swaped out for more tuning options.

Realy nice ! You plan on doing a rear one

Im in for a set for my s14

[xilovelsdx]

Powered by Max Knuckles have SHIPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[kewilso3]

^^Not sure if serious? I have not been notified, and I ordered the day the pre-buy started, before Dan posted it on Zilvia

[DC Dan MAX USA]

Nate, thats enough crap talking, its just unprofessional and no one can respect that. Im sure you are a capable fabricator, so let your original parts speak for themselves, thats very respectable.

The MAX forged knuckles have arrived, and preorders have been dispatched. If you have not seen an email from UPS with tracking, email us about the order and we'll get you the delivery info.
Its been a long day for packing and shipping! Thanks for the business & everyone that has supported this new part release! We will post additional stock on hand for sale on the website shortly.

[Bink Industries]

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

Nate, thats enough crap talking, its just unprofessional and no one can respect that. Im sure you are a capable fabricator, so let your original parts speak for themselves, thats very respectable.

The MAX forged knuckles have arrived, and preorders have been dispatched. If you have not seen an email from UPS with tracking, email us about the order and we'll get you the delivery info.
Its been a long day for packing and shipping! Thanks for the business & everyone that has supported this new part release! We will post additional stock on hand for sale on the website shortly.

I wasn't bashing anyone I apologize if you feel that way.

[S13project]

Originally Posted by hks4life

thanks man is just what i think a coupe should look like. lol havent painted it cuz i cant find a local dmax/supermade roof wings and wont put anything else on the car!!!

ive been following this thread for a long time and we made our knuckle models using a lot a of help of this forum and some local FD drivers. my whole car is set up using info from here lol hopefully now i can perfect it to my driving style.

any feed back would be great!

holy crap sebastian! didn't realize you had taken your suspension that far. hell yea man!

[zeebrah]

Few things:
First (and something very similar to this was asked like 2/3 pages back but no real conclusion) I ran most stock everything up front except pbm tie rod spacers, modified knuckles and chopped bump stops on lca replaced with welded on flatter/flusher steel stops... and string aligned it and had heaps of angle. Ran maybe 3/4ths inch of wheel spacer on +15 wheels and still hit tensions up front and frame out back(I run no sway) bought shitspeed offset tensions and fixed the rubbing at lock issue(but was still with in millimeters) Couple track days and the angle was amazing.

So...Then my car was down for a couple months so I threw on some new steering parts including solid steering bushing, es steering rack bushings, tien tie rods (kept pbm spacer still in favor of tien's), spl outters (spaced down probably too much) and then got an actual machine alignment Same wheel/spacer set up. Now I have FAR less angle. Probably a solid 2-3 inches from tension/frame. So what gives?? Is it the spl ends? I noticed the dude doing my alignment had some serious issues setting my caster could this be culprit? I understand this is 'alot of factors/variables' but it was such a drastic change. Is it possible to have installed any of the parts wrong? I consider myself a relitively exprernced mechanic... But shit I'm stumped and bummed. Track day last weekend and could feel the loss of angle....
Also what's peoples thought of spacing the lcas out via drillig the subframe so I can get rid of those Spacers and more camber? Never see a real concencious on it...
Any info is appreciated...

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by zeebrah

Few things:
First (and something very similar to this was asked like 2/3 pages back but no real conclusion) I ran most stock everything up front except pbm tie rod spacers, modified knuckles and chopped bump stops on lca replaced with welded on flatter/flusher steel stops... and string aligned it and had heaps of angle. Ran maybe 3/4ths inch of wheel spacer on +15 wheels and still hit tensions up front and frame out back(I run no sway) bought shitspeed offset tensions and fixed the rubbing at lock issue(but was still with in millimeters) Couple track days and the angle was amazing.

So...Then my car was down for a couple months so I threw on some new steering parts including solid steering bushing, es steering rack bushings, tien tie rods (kept pbm spacer still in favor of tien's), spl outters (spaced down probably too much) and then got an actual machine alignment Same wheel/spacer set up. Now I have FAR less angle. Probably a solid 2-3 inches from tension/frame. So what gives?? Is it the spl ends? I noticed the dude doing my alignment had some serious issues setting my caster could this be culprit? I understand this is 'alot of factors/variables' but it was such a drastic change. Is it possible to have installed any of the parts wrong? I consider myself a relitively exprernced mechanic... But shit I'm stumped and bummed. Track day last weekend and could feel the loss of angle....
Also what's peoples thought of spacing the lcas out via drillig the subframe so I can get rid of those Spacers and more camber? Never see a real concencious on it...
Any info is appreciated...

Unless your tie rod shank is perfectly parallel with your ball joint shank, then when you space the tie rod down, you are increasing ackerman and decreasing total lock available at the same time.

Also, if they dialed in more caster with the tension rods, then you'll have a little less angle.

Just extend your LCA's. It's a better mod then messing with the pivot points and actually decreases positive camber gain on bump if you don't have RC adjustment.

[Cash]

Maybe this will get more attention here.. Do the S13 and S14 subframes have a different rear upper control arm mount width? I have brand new S13 SPL RUCAs I'm trying to install and the spherical baring with the spacers won't fit in the mount on the subframe. The box they came in says S13, so I'm not sure why they aren't even close to fitting.

http://zilvia.net/f/s-chassis/520190...t-fitting.html

[IThaJokaI]

No, s13 and 14 RUCA mounts are the same size. The only thing that I could think, is you got some s14 toe rod spacers, instead of the RUCA spacers.

[Motary]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Unless your tie rod shank is perfectly parallel with your ball joint shank, then when you space the tie rod down, you are increasing ackerman and decreasing total lock available at the same time.

Also, if they dialed in more caster with the tension rods, then you'll have a little less angle.

Just extend your LCA's. It's a better mod then messing with the pivot points and actually decreases positive camber gain on bump if you don't have RC adjustment.

I have looked into the camber change difference and it is very very minimal, I have also posted this pages ago

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by Motary

I have looked into the camber change difference and it is very very minimal, I have also posted this pages ago

Yes, I was merely stating that it helped. Every little bit helps.

[koukistylejdm]

theres one thing i noticed after my alignement seems like the rear wheels are far back in the fender wonder if its normal i looked at many s13-14 first time i see it like this







thanks with any advice

[Chris28]

Your traction arm could be too long which would push your wheel back in the wheel well. Are you running stock rear knuckles?

Since I mentioned rear traction arms, does anyone have any input on optimal traction rod to ruca length ratio? An article on MotoIQ said near stock length traction rod is good, a local pro/am driver told me the shorter the better. There is a thread on NRR with bumpsteer graphs for changes in traction rod/ruca length for an s14, but I'm not sure how much it pertains to the s13 due to different anti-squat geometry.

For drivers that have switched to PBM or Driftworks rear knuckles, what changes have you made to the suspension arms since the switch?

[koukistylejdm]

thanks a lot it confirm evrything its going back to alignement saturday morning

[hks4life]

Originally Posted by S13project

holy crap sebastian! didn't realize you had taken your suspension that far. hell yea man!

thanks tyler, i wanted the car to be low and to perform like it was suppose to. next thing is to do is get some bolts made for the offset rack spacers we made. or i may mod a sub frame if i get my hands on one

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by Chris28

Your traction arm could be too long which would push your wheel back in the wheel well. Are you running stock rear knuckles?

Since I mentioned rear traction arms, does anyone have any input on optimal traction rod to ruca length ratio? An article on MotoIQ said near stock length traction rod is good, a local pro/am driver told me the shorter the better. There is a thread on NRR with bumpsteer graphs for changes in traction rod/ruca length for an s14, but I'm not sure how much it pertains to the s13 due to different anti-squat geometry.

For drivers that have switched to PBM or Driftworks rear knuckles, what changes have you made to the suspension arms since the switch?

The shorter the better ? You dont want to listen to that guy ... i went that route before, when i did not know how it would affect the driving and everyone around me told "it does not matter".

Worst decision ever, got crazy toe out on droop, the car would try to spin every time i touched the brake pedal. I ended up setting my dampers to full hard to lock the suspension and try and enjoy the rest of the trackday.

The rear traction rod controls the bump steer. The ideal length depends on the height of the suspension. I am still trying to dial mine correctly, so far i used the same RLCA /traction rod length ratio + around 5mm and it kind of works (S13 subframe, all adjustable arms, stock knuckles, 5cm wider track rear, lowered but not that much)

[Motary]

The best way according to Nismo is to increase the length of the camber arm and traction arm equally

It would be good to add this info to the first page:

Quote: To adjust camber, do it with the eccentric!! Do not change RUCA length, just the eccentric bolt's position. Use the same lengths on both L&R sides (assuming your crossmember, LCA and bushings are all proper and undamaged, you would be surprised how many cars have bent lcas or subframes).

To adjust toe, DONT do it with the eccentric! run the eccentric so that the toe arm is the shortest possible length, then adjust toe with the arm length.

if the car is going to be lowered substantially, this requires longer lengths for the RUCA and toe arms.

Quote: R34 nismo trac arm length +5mm over S14
R34 nismo RUCA length +5mm over S14

due to this thread, i ran:
+6.35mm over S14 trac arm length
+6.35mm over S14 RUCA length

Quote: if you decide to use any sort of roll center adjuster the REAR LCA MUST BE LENGTHENED,

Nismo Z-tune:
Link

Quote: Isn't it interesting that the STOCK ration Traction to UCA gives the best/least toe change. Nissan engineers must be fairly sharp.

Studying this paper also reveals that toe starts changing a lot more if you change the ride height too much:

Nissan S chassis rear suspension design explained

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by Motary

The best way according to Nismo is to increase the length of the camber arm and traction arm equally

This is off topic, because this is only true if ride height does not change.

[Chris28]

Originally Posted by Croustibat

The shorter the better ? You dont want to listen to that guy ... i went that route before, when i did not know how it would affect the driving and everyone around me told "it does not matter".

Thanks for the response. I rode in the guy's car at the track and was amazed at how much rear grip he had, that why I asked him about his rear suspension settings. Further research showed that there is an optimal ratio between ruca and traction rod, and his response didn't seem right. I figured asking here would get me pointed in the right direction.

Now how about aftermarket rear knuckles? It makes sense to lengthen the lca if you're using roll center correcting ball joints, but you don't have to with knuckles. Does the ratio between ruca and traction rod stay the same?

[Bink Industries]

Originally Posted by Croustibat

This is off topic, because this is only true if ride height does not change.

this is correct AND incorect as well.


if you dont change the ride height then this is correct as they are trying to maintain the rear caster angle which is effecting your bumpsteer. but that is only within reason. any major adjustment changes and this does not apply.

Now.... if you make any makor adjustents and or changes to the ride height you will have to start from scratch to find the factory caster setting for rear or try and find something that you are more happy with (always room for improvment ) by messing with the traction rod length.

NOW once you have found that happy spot that you like you would then do what it says and idealy move the length of your traction rod and camber arm the same amount to maintain your rear caster/bumpsteer settings.


rember guys you have to think of the RUCA and the traction rod as one peice. like a double wishbone/ A arm suspension it really isnt that differant. if you draw a line through both pivots one on the traction rod and one through the RUCA pivots, where these lines intersect is the IMAGINARY upper ball joint. that is why changing the lengths of these two arms will change your dynamic alignment settings because you have moved an imaginary pivot point.

What do you think would happen if you just adjusted camber on a double Arm car by cutting out secstions of one side of the arm? thats what your doing to your car when you only adjust one of these two arms.

[PoorMans180SX]

Driftworks R-body V2 being test fitted today!

[Motary]

Real lower arm longer balljoints are bollocks, all they do is increase your already excessive camber gain, if possible it'd be better to make the oem ones shorter, but there is no room with the standard unmodified upright.

Link to Rear bumpsteer thread on NRR. As you can see, the best ratio is the standard one.

This thread pretty much appears to be going in direction of "I want pretty looking parts on my car so I can make a longer spec list and win in the internet"