Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Go Back   Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum > General > Chat

Chat General Discussion About The Nissan 240SX and Nissan Z Cars


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2012, 06:20 AM   #61
4DOOR_LIFE
Zilvia FREAK!
 
4DOOR_LIFE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SF to the PNW
Age: 30
Posts: 1,479
Trader Rating: (3)
4DOOR_LIFE will become famous soon enough4DOOR_LIFE will become famous soon enough4DOOR_LIFE will become famous soon enough4DOOR_LIFE will become famous soon enough
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Some douche who is also a member on here, attempted to pull the kbb card on my 89 hatch. So he could get money on top of the pos he was considering trading.
__________________
Instagram: @Elegant.Company
4DOOR_LIFE is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-20-2012, 07:06 AM   #62
onehundredoctane
Post Whore!
 
onehundredoctane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greensborough, NC
Posts: 2,759
Trader Rating: (3)
onehundredoctane is close to perfectiononehundredoctane is close to perfectiononehundredoctane is close to perfectiononehundredoctane is close to perfectiononehundredoctane is close to perfectiononehundredoctane is close to perfectiononehundredoctane is close to perfectiononehundredoctane is close to perfectiononehundredoctane is close to perfectiononehundredoctane is close to perfectiononehundredoctane is close to perfection
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
My God why hasn't a mod locked this?

240's are like cockroaches (S13's at least), there everywhere, plus they weren't low production numbers. This is why Kouki S14's are priced stupidly, not a lot made, and the fanboi's are all over them.
onehundredoctane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 09:00 AM   #63
Banana_Cute
Zilvia FREAK!
 
Banana_Cute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Irvine, So. Cal.
Posts: 1,338
Trader Rating: (16)
Banana_Cute is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 16 reviews
Kelly Blue Book dont give a fuck what this car can do, or why is it so hot to get.

Its a fucking 240sx. relax. People will try and sell these cars to make a quick buck to buyers who are willing to.


I just saw a SALVAGED TITLE ZENKI. for $5500.. AUTOMATIC. fuuuccck. Im sure the owner got it for half that price. and probably used the car as a daily.
__________________

Simplicity is the key to brilliance
Banana_Cute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 10:47 AM   #64
Bushido
Post Whore!
 
Bushido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SFL
Posts: 3,561
Trader Rating: (10)
Bushido is close to perfectionBushido is close to perfectionBushido is close to perfectionBushido is close to perfectionBushido is close to perfectionBushido is close to perfectionBushido is close to perfectionBushido is close to perfectionBushido is close to perfectionBushido is close to perfectionBushido is close to perfection
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
If you wanna know what will happen to the value of the s chassis cars all you gotta do is look at the price trends of s30s. A few years ago you could get a very nice example for 2-3 grand, fastforward to now and the price has risen to 6-7.

The 240sx will become a collector classic eventually and when it does, the value will rise
__________________
Bushido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 10:58 AM   #65
ashtonroche
Zilvia Junkie
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: yuma
Age: 35
Posts: 397
Trader Rating: (0)
ashtonroche is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Maybe 10 years from now when all the shitty ones that are wrecked from the Dorifto Wanna Bee's and the rusted out ones are in the junk yard.

When finding a clean one becomes rare, then you will see the price go up. Damaged, rusted, or poorly maintained ones will not be affected.
ashtonroche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 12:06 PM   #66
RedSiBaron
Zilvia Junkie
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: cincinnati/dayton/columbus OH
Posts: 448
Trader Rating: (1)
RedSiBaron is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Kbb said my car is worth 4k, I wouldn't pay that for my heap of scrap metal...

Im not paying more on insurance because you think your 240 is worth the drifter tax that dumb kids put on them.
RedSiBaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 12:33 PM   #67
landins13
Zilvia Addict
 
landins13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 986
Trader Rating: (3)
landins13 has made poor choiceslandins13 has made poor choiceslandins13 has made poor choiceslandins13 has made poor choiceslandins13 has made poor choiceslandins13 has made poor choiceslandins13 has made poor choices
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
there are far too many $1500 s13's out there with no motor or interior. I bought my s13 pre-drift tax for 600 bucks with less than 100k on the clock a running dohc ka and no rust or body damage. yeah its got a brown interior but there were no cracks or gashes in anything.


its all relative. people a stupid and as long as people are stupid they will continue to pay stupidly high prices for 240's.

as a sell why the hell would you price your car at the fair market value when you know some idiot will pay you 2-3k more for it.
__________________
NO HANDS IN PANTS!!
landins13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 06:33 PM   #68
KBB values guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 1
Trader Rating: (0)
KBB values guy is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Hi,

Thank you for providing feedback concerning the Nissan 240SX values. We appreciate the level of engagement and knowledge from all the vehicle enthusiasts on this forum.

Kelley Blue Book does not provide a value add for vehicles that have aftermarket modifications. For those vehicles, we would suggest having a private appraisal. We continuously monitor the used-vehicle market for all vehicles, including the Nissan 240SX. Our valuation methods include analyzing data from auctions, dealers and sellerís listing prices. This data passes through several statistical models to produce a Kelley Blue Book Value on a weekly basis.

However, thanks to your input we are taking another look at the Nissan 240SX values and will make adjustments if necessary. If you have any other questions or follow-up comments, you can reach me via email at [email protected].

Thanks again!

AJ
Manager, Vehicle Valuation
Kelley Blue Book
KBB values guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 06:43 PM   #69
fckillerbee
Post Whore!
 
fckillerbee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern California
Age: 34
Posts: 4,263
Trader Rating: (5)
fckillerbee is close to perfectionfckillerbee is close to perfectionfckillerbee is close to perfectionfckillerbee is close to perfectionfckillerbee is close to perfectionfckillerbee is close to perfectionfckillerbee is close to perfectionfckillerbee is close to perfectionfckillerbee is close to perfectionfckillerbee is close to perfectionfckillerbee is close to perfection
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
what the fuck.......
fckillerbee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 06:48 PM   #70
240drifter1
Zilvia FREAK!
 
240drifter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,505
Trader Rating: (1)
240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute240drifter1 has a reputation beyond repute
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 240drifter1
Bwahahahahhaha! Winning!
240drifter1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 06:52 PM   #71
Taniguchi_Is_#1
Post Whore!
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: West Arkansas Prefecture
Posts: 3,143
Trader Rating: (3)
Taniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfectionTaniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfectionTaniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfectionTaniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfectionTaniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfectionTaniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfectionTaniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfectionTaniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfectionTaniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfectionTaniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfectionTaniguchi_Is_#1 is close to perfection
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBB values guy View Post
Hi,

Thank you for providing feedback concerning the Nissan 240SX values. We appreciate the level of engagement and knowledge from all the vehicle enthusiasts on this forum.

Kelley Blue Book does not provide a value add for vehicles that have aftermarket modifications. For those vehicles, we would suggest having a private appraisal. We continuously monitor the used-vehicle market for all vehicles, including the Nissan 240SX. Our valuation methods include analyzing data from auctions, dealers and sellerís listing prices. This data passes through several statistical models to produce a Kelley Blue Book Value on a weekly basis.

However, thanks to your input we are taking another look at the Nissan 240SX values and will make adjustments if necessary. If you have any other questions or follow-up comments, you can reach me via email at [email protected].

Thanks again!

AJ
Manager, Vehicle Valuation
Kelley Blue Book
Taniguchi_Is_#1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 07:11 PM   #72
MadScientist
Zilvia.net Advertiser
 
MadScientist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NOLA
Age: 42
Posts: 1,965
Trader Rating: (3)
MadScientist is just really niceMadScientist is just really niceMadScientist is just really niceMadScientist is just really niceMadScientist is just really niceMadScientist is just really niceMadScientist is just really niceMadScientist is just really niceMadScientist is just really niceMadScientist is just really nice
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
hahahahaha...

You guys keep destroying them, part out, drifting, doing shitty mods, and changing owners hands like a petaphile in a playground.

After 20 years the value is based on the what the owner is willing to take or a buyer is willing to pay. If it doesn't sell, hold on to it... its just like stocks, just because the market is down doesn't mean you have to sell!!

I use to flip cars in high school... bought a '85 XJS w/ k5 miles on it for $7500, still had the factory plastic on the back seat... sold it a year later to my friends uncle for $17,500.

Zilvia member Full Lock sold his S14 Kouki with RB26 for $45K... $45,000... its all about the seller and the buyer.

I will never.. yes, Never, sell my S14 Kouki only because everytime I see one parted out or Drift Destroyed, just means it became that much closer to being one of the last ones!!

enjoy
MadScientist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 09:51 PM   #73
Wheelchair
Leaky Injector
 
Wheelchair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATL
Posts: 137
Trader Rating: (0)
Wheelchair is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
what a useless thread...

KBB isn't nasdaq and it certainly has no interest in lowered values.

You can't just figure in the supply and demand... there is also a thing called an OPPORTUNITY COST.

KBB does not calculate this. the used car MARKET does. Petitions will be willingly and knowingly be ignored.
Wheelchair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 10:35 PM   #74
Tantwoforty
Nissanaholic!
 
Tantwoforty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Riverside ca
Age: 30
Posts: 1,890
Trader Rating: (20)
Tantwoforty is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 20 reviews
i got mine for $1000 original owner, 5 speed, clean title, SE, 210k came with factory manual and jack, smelled like old Mexican man. the suspension sagged on the driver side from his tubby butt dailying it for years, came with like 4 Spanish cd's

These are only worth what people will pay for them, whats it worth to YOU? normal people just see a shitty old nissan.
Tantwoforty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 01:00 AM   #75
RB Me
Zilvia Junkie
 
RB Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: OKC
Posts: 473
Trader Rating: (0)
RB Me is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
9k firm, no lowballs even though im way over priced, i dont need to sell etc. saving for a house blah blah

2 months later, f all you haters

4 months huge price drop 8900 firm

2 years later. still for sale.
RB Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 02:33 AM   #76
ixfxi
Post Whore!
 
ixfxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: bangin on my chest Account: BANNED #fucksupreme
Age: 77
Posts: 5,870
Trader Rating: (3)
ixfxi is close to perfectionixfxi is close to perfectionixfxi is close to perfectionixfxi is close to perfectionixfxi is close to perfectionixfxi is close to perfectionixfxi is close to perfectionixfxi is close to perfectionixfxi is close to perfectionixfxi is close to perfectionixfxi is close to perfection
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentbohn View Post
my 98 kouki is one of 1281 total produced.... that is rare
its rare not because its special. its rare because nissan was going through its financial crisis due to new 97 crash standards and due to the yen losing value (at that time). besides aesthetics, there is nothing that makes a 97-98 more valuable than a 95-96. in fact, most prefer the 95-96 due to them being obd-1


Quote:
Originally Posted by KBB values guy View Post
Hi,

Thank you for providing feedback concerning the Nissan 240SX values. We appreciate the level of engagement and knowledge from all the vehicle enthusiasts on this forum.
Thanks again!

AJ
Manager, Vehicle Valuation
Kelley Blue Book
engagement and knowledge? you sure you're talking about the folks on zilvia?
ixfxi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 06:26 AM   #77
SupaDoopa
Post Whore!
 
SupaDoopa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 隠された意図
Age: 32
Posts: 2,931
Trader Rating: (26)
SupaDoopa is just really niceSupaDoopa is just really niceSupaDoopa is just really niceSupaDoopa is just really niceSupaDoopa is just really niceSupaDoopa is just really niceSupaDoopa is just really niceSupaDoopa is just really niceSupaDoopa is just really niceSupaDoopa is just really nice
Feedback Score: 26 reviews
Send a message via AIM to SupaDoopa
You bought a 240SX with the intent it'd hold it's resale value? You fucked up.
SupaDoopa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 07:53 PM   #78
Brentbohn
Zilvia Junkie
 
Brentbohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: minnesota
Age: 39
Posts: 357
Trader Rating: (4)
Brentbohn has made poor choicesBrentbohn has made poor choicesBrentbohn has made poor choicesBrentbohn has made poor choicesBrentbohn has made poor choicesBrentbohn has made poor choicesBrentbohn has made poor choicesBrentbohn has made poor choices
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
WINNING! left a voice mail for AJ today... see what he has to say for our friends at KBB... this guy found this forum on his own after I emailed him with request to review the pricing on 240's
__________________

Wanted: Good well mannered athletic woman with her own classic or sports car.... send photo of car
Brentbohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 12:48 AM   #79
S141S
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8
Trader Rating: (0)
S141S is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by enkei2k View Post
so where's this almighty 'petition' you speak of?

also, how much do you expect 14+ year old cars to cost? The S-chassis is no high end car like mentioned earlier.

KBB for a 98 Supra TT in 'excellent' condition from a private seller is less than $20K. Find me one that's in excellent condition selling for that price.

KBB doesn't give a shit about supply and demand and other variable factors like drift tax.

The older the car, the lower the KBB value. I think it's what they call...depreciation?
kbb obv doesn't give a fuck about mods either.
S141S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 02:29 AM   #80
PeaceOnesxWai
Zilvia FREAK!
 
PeaceOnesxWai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal
Age: 28
Posts: 1,220
Trader Rating: (34)
PeaceOnesxWai is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 34 reviews
Lol @ this post

KBB determines the price and condition of stock cars, 95% of the cars for sale here on Zilvia have been modified, drifted, crashed, non-op etc.. I think KBB is very fair on the price they listed 240s at for what owners do to them. I just think half the owners selling their 240s are idiots, over pricing their car with used parts and o-so-much time with labor. Booho, 500 hours on fixing it, it still looks like sh!t

I bet OP registers his car under $1k to the DMV anyways.. another reason why KBB "under" values 240s
PeaceOnesxWai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 02:32 AM   #81
PeaceOnesxWai
Zilvia FREAK!
 
PeaceOnesxWai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal
Age: 28
Posts: 1,220
Trader Rating: (34)
PeaceOnesxWai is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 34 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by RB Me View Post
9k firm, no lowballs even though im way over priced, i dont need to sell etc. saving for a house blah blah

2 months later, f all you haters

4 months huge price drop 8900 firm

2 years later. still for sale.
lolol thats 90% of all S14 sellers
PeaceOnesxWai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 12:33 AM   #82
zerodameaon
Post Whore!
 
zerodameaon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bay Area CA, Sutherlin OR
Age: 31
Posts: 3,250
Trader Rating: (3)
zerodameaon is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
If you want kbb to reflect junk like this
1990 Nissan 240sx, Cleanest on Craigslist.
1993 240sx
1991 Nissan 240sx 5spd "CLEAN TITLE"
1993 Nissan 240sx fastback 5 speed 149k All Original & STOCK!

Then you are even more of a idiot then the people posting these cars. These cars are so artificially inflated anyways its stupid.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMigs View Post
That's a one-way trip to understeer land...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKdaMoRoN View Post
Maybe you should petition the retards who are paying 5k for an S13.

Need to adjust your idle?
http://zilvia.net/f/s-chassis/395413...-pictures.html
zerodameaon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 01:36 AM   #83
Paint209
Zilvia Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CA
Age: 27
Posts: 244
Trader Rating: (4)
Paint209 is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
QQ i got ripped off for my kouki then.
Paint209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 01:55 AM   #84
lude4life13
Zilvia Junkie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Planet Namek
Age: 29
Posts: 408
Trader Rating: (8)
lude4life13 is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 8 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixfxi View Post
its rare not because its special. its rare because nissan was going through its financial crisis due to new 97 crash standards and due to the yen losing value (at that time). besides aesthetics, there is nothing that makes a 97-98 more valuable than a 95-96. in fact, most prefer the 95-96 due to them being obd-1

Really? I didnt know most people preferred zenki's over kouki's. I guess I should sell mine and get one for half the price in that case..
lude4life13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 02:35 AM   #85
atom
Zilvia FREAK!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,196
Trader Rating: (0)
atom is a name known to allatom is a name known to allatom is a name known to allatom is a name known to allatom is a name known to allatom is a name known to allatom is a name known to allatom is a name known to allatom is a name known to allatom is a name known to allatom is a name known to all
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I bet a well kept bone stock Deep Fuschia Kouki would be worth a ton of money 15 years from now.
atom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 12:31 PM   #86
fliprayzin240sx
Man w/ CTSV & a Car Seat
 
fliprayzin240sx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 17,993
Trader Rating: (19)
fliprayzin240sx is close to perfectionfliprayzin240sx is close to perfectionfliprayzin240sx is close to perfectionfliprayzin240sx is close to perfectionfliprayzin240sx is close to perfectionfliprayzin240sx is close to perfectionfliprayzin240sx is close to perfectionfliprayzin240sx is close to perfectionfliprayzin240sx is close to perfectionfliprayzin240sx is close to perfectionfliprayzin240sx is close to perfection
Feedback Score: 19 reviews
Send a message via AIM to fliprayzin240sx
240sx got the drift tax but the Supra guys got the Fast and Furious Tax. I still cant believe how much those cars go for after that stupid movie. Pre-2000, you can find a 93 MKIV TT Supra with high mileage (180k) for less than $12k.
__________________

If you think Zilvia has too many assholes...
CLICK HERE!!!
fliprayzin240sx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 02:02 PM   #87
davinci
Leaky Injector
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dallas TX
Age: 40
Posts: 127
Trader Rating: (1)
davinci is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
bwahhah the "civic" of the nissan world will be a collector car??? dont think so
davinci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 02:16 PM   #88
badbob2121
Zilvia FREAK!
 
badbob2121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis
Age: 31
Posts: 1,265
Trader Rating: (7)
badbob2121 is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by lude4life13 View Post
Really? I didnt know most people preferred zenki's over kouki's. I guess I should sell mine and get one for half the price in that case..
Hes right. You may not know this (being from CA) But in other states, OBD1 vehicles do not require emission testing, only a simple safety inspection.

If i wanted a s14, i would buy a zenki over kouki without question...
__________________


FOLLOW ME ON INSTAGRAM = BOBBY_LS13
badbob2121 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 02:23 PM   #89
The Dude
Zilvia Junkie
 
The Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: TN
Age: 35
Posts: 357
Trader Rating: (4)
The Dude is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
Why is this a thread? The cars are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. Instead of petitioning kbb, maybe you should petition the retards who are paying 5k for an S13.
The Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 03:36 PM   #90
zerodameaon
Post Whore!
 
zerodameaon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bay Area CA, Sutherlin OR
Age: 31
Posts: 3,250
Trader Rating: (3)
zerodameaon is an unknown quantity at this point
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKdaMoRoN View Post
Why is this a thread? The cars are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. Instead of petitioning kbb, maybe you should petition the retards who are paying 5k for an S13.
New sig quote right there.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMigs View Post
That's a one-way trip to understeer land...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BKdaMoRoN View Post
Maybe you should petition the retards who are paying 5k for an S13.

Need to adjust your idle?
http://zilvia.net/f/s-chassis/395413...-pictures.html
zerodameaon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vB.Sponsors
Copyright © 1998 - 2019, Zilvia.netô