1st rebuild KA and scared as hell

[HBT]

Bought this 91 240sx for my son from a friend of mine. He was the orig owner. The chassis has a crap ton of miles. 300k plus. Engine has had a KA swap already. I have always loved the 240. So, maybe I knew I would end up with it. Haha... So, about a week ago, the engine was rattling and lost power. I had the timing chain done recently, and my son let the oil get low. Long story short... It sounds like a rod, piston, wrist pin.. Something in the block. So, I watched a bunch of vids on rebuilds and read here and there about how "easy" this is... Lord I hope so. I am not a mechanic but have always been mechanically inclined. I can change most everything around the engine bay and so forth. However, I'm in a sorta no lose sitch here so, why not. I've got the tools and have some funds to press forward. I just wanted to join a forum in hopes of having feedback on what will inevitably be a frustrated and hopefully rewarding journey into this 240. I will post some photos of how far I have come.

Right now it's in the garage and almost ready to pull. Few more things I need to do. I sure I will be asking questions before I pull it to make sure I have everything checked off before I do it.

Lord help me...

This is where it was right after the tow truck dropped it off.



This is where I put it in the garage.


This is where I am now...




And this.... Look dead center. It comes off the exhaust pipe just below the manifold. I had to buy a 24" wrench to remove because the crescent wrench is going to strip it. It's on there good to. After that the exhaust should be able to be dropped.



In a couple of weeks I will be removing the shaft. From there I should only have a few things left to remove to pull it. I am sure I will be asking many questions. Also, please please, any words of wisdom at this point before I so pull it out I will be all ears. If this goes well and get it running again, I will be gutting it all and so a full build on it. But, let's sat there. All I know is I hope the block is not scored. Or, what is broke in it didn't kill my rebuild of it. If so, I will buy another KA rebuild and put it in. I hope I can rebuild it myself though. Thank you to anyone who pitches in and guides me going forward. I hope this is going to be a fun thing to do. Or at least rewarding...

[zurud]

Congrats on your purchase. Welcome to the 240 world. Rebuilding engine is not parts changing to make it last. You need precise measurement instrument like micrometer sets. The easiest way is just send it to modern machine that deals a lot with Japanese engine. Let them deal with it. kA come stock in 240 in US

[HBT]

That's probably a good idea. There is one that is close me here in California. But, I really want to break into this thing. If I break it down, I won't get the core exchange? Of that is so, I may have to think twice about breaking it down. Good advice though. You are more than certainly right I'm sure. Well, I will it and go from there. Thanks for the warm greeting.

[HBT]

Could I send out the head to a machine shop to do the top end though? And, the block I could also check out and measured and machined as well? Or, what that be as much as getting a rebuild here local for about 1400. I don't know. I don't know. I will pull it and get everyones thoughts I guess.

[BiggDatty]

Rebuilding a block is probably the simplest task to do imo. If your stuck or needing to know about something, there's thousands of people on forums that can answer your questions.

[pacotaco345]

I don't wanna seem like I'm bragging or anything but I've rebuilt a ka and an sr in my dad's garage now (ka when I was 17 sr last year) and both motors are currently running great. Its not impossible to make a mistake assembling these things though so my best advice would be to download the FSM from somewhere and follow it to the t while putting it all together. I got my whole ka rebuild kit off of ebay for like $350 and figured I'm not planning to ever push more than stock power out of it so why not? Just take your time and make sure you're collaborating back and forth with the machine shop.

[waxball88]

As long as you follow the FSM and use the tool it says you'll be fine.
Built my first built ka at 18. It makes 400whp, and it's still running.
Use a machine shop for the honing/ring fit/bearing size/etc. and you'll be fine.

[The Saint]

This time around you might want to play it safe and get a rebuilt motor with a warrantee. Pop for upgraded mounts and just get it done. In a year he will want more power anyway and you two will tare into it again. Just completing a swap is rewarding in itself.

[HBT]

Update... Have a good buddy that is knowledgeable and has a great machine shop he uses for all is engines. I feel better going forward. I just picked up a cherry picker yesterday for 80 bucks. He used it once. Renting was almost as much so it made sense to pick it up. I have a three day weekend coming up and planning to pull it out. I know the practical thing to do is get a rebuild. But what fun is that??? I wanna do this... I downloaded an fsm from somewhere but seemed...IDK, cheesy. I think I got the wrong one. It did not appear to be as technical as I had thought it would be. When I got the rebuild portion it listed what to do like a getting groceries. Anyway, I will keep looking for the right one. I will get pics of the pull and break down. I wanna see what happened inside this thing. I'm thinkin wrist pin... but we'll see.

[HBT]

Scratch that, found the FSM... Good stuff.

[HBT]

Quick question, pulling the motor on Friday. One flare nut in my way. The pair valve pipe attached to the upper exhaust is proving to be a issue. 15/16 wrench to big. 24mm to big, 22 to small. I do not have a flare nut wrench in 23mm. I am suspecting that this is the size. Before I go out and but it, can anyone confirm it? Anyway... Friday I will get some pics on my pull and then on to break down. Thanks all... Oh oh, one more question. There is an area behind the upper part of the engine and the firewall. Orange plug, maybe red... It was broken when I went to pull it. Can I just replace the connector? If I can find one. Thanks everyone. Noob out.

[Dialga]

Honestly I would just get a new KA on craigslist for a couple hundred bucks and swap it in.

Rebuilding an engine requires a lot so you need to make sure you're ready to take on a project.

They usually go for 500-800 for a good running clean KA http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/4570924163.html

[HBT]

Ya, I could always do that... Its not a DD so I have plenty of time. I want to learn. I had some success with a civic, and I had to do just about everything except pull it. So yes, This is very different, but I have nothing to loose trying. Well, maybe the money investing in it, but I can't let that get in my way toward learning something this awesome. I know its a big project for sure, but I'm doing it with my son and if it stumps us... New swap KA it is. Besides, good father son time. I will keep an eye out for a cheap swap KA I can't pass up as a back up though.. lol

[SolTNtuz]

Check out youtube as there are plenty of videos available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSlPzW3N-BE

FR Sports has good parts and shipping is great.

http://www.frsport.com/index.php?tar...&cid=&q=ka24de

[HBT]

Nice man, I had not seen that one. Saw a bunch of others but not this one... I will watch it on Tuesday. I'm off and will be prepping for the pull on Friday. Thanks again.

[Rusker]

Watch a few videos first to get a good idea what you will be up against. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...7i_4wVVkzWeZDf

[Croustibat]

Forget videos, it is a real job, and it requires real experience. Would you perform heart surgery because you saw how it was done in a video tons of time ?

I have heard countless times the "i can do it", and it usually is followed by "i dumped 2000$ in parts and the engine died 500km later". And then there are bloody stupid people who don't understand the first time, and do it a second time. Like that stupid bloke who did not want to pay 3000€ in labor to assemble his 1000HP RB26DET, and ended up killing the head by badly tightening the timing system ... he then paid the tuner to rebuild the head, but he still did not want to pay the labor so he build the bottom end by himself again... needless to say, a rod welded itself to the crank while the tuner was bringing the car to a dyno. And he is still mad ... at the tuner. Not once did he even acknowledge he did something wrong. He even tried to go legal, that was quite a joke.

Fact is, finding an affordable, good engine builder is harder than finding the perfect wife, which says quite a lot on how hard that job is. It really is that simple: one mistake = dead engine.

Anyway, if you still want to give it a go, you really need clean space, quality measuring tools, machinists who know their job, source for available parts, and a budget. Do not open the engine before having all this.

IMHO a KA is not worth rebuilding. just buy another one and use it while it lasts. If you really want to do something stupid, do something stupidly fun, like slapping an LS1 in it.

[HBT]

Great post Croustibat... Agrreed, but I can't help myslf. You are so right on all of these accounts, but I have to any way... LS1? Yes, maybe next time. I have a great machinist local here that is going to handle the head for me. I have a good buddy that rebuilds his bottom ends from time to time, and some master mechanics that told me to bring them anything to look over make sure i'm on the right track. Once I pull it, I will have the garge clean and take my time. I get stumped, I'm asking you blokes. I have some good tools, but if I need one I will get it and wait to do it right. I have time to go slow. I agree a rebuilt KA is the practical thing to do here, but what stupid fun is that. maybe your right... dead after a mile. But, I will find out. Thanks for the warning. I'm sure i will be hearing "told you so" after this... lol.

[HBT]

Couple of essentials... Craigslist 80 bucks for the picker. 40 bucks cheap china made engine stand. 1 ton. Keep y'all posted.

[Rusker]

Originally Posted by Croustibat

Forget videos, it is a real job, and it requires real experience. Would you perform heart surgery because you saw how it was done in a video tons of time ?

IMHO a KA is not worth rebuilding. just buy another one and use it while it lasts.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Watching the videos beforehand will give you a better idea what you're are about to jump into. It should give you an idea if this is something you REALLY want to attempt.

If you decide to go for it, this is the perfect engine to learn on. Why? Because they are relativity cheap and if he ends up ruining this one who cares. It's not his daily driver, and it doesn't appear that he is pressed for time to get it done. If he takes it slow and asks questions on this forum, I see no reason why he wouldn't be successful. Regardless how it turns out he will have gained a ton of knowledge. It's just a stock KA rebuild, not a fully built RB26.

btw, do you have the thread about the RB26 build you mentioned? Sounds like a fun read.

[SolTNtuz]

Croustibat............. Why are you so against someone doing their own work, many may have failed at doing things but when it works damn it feels good. A LS1 into a Nissan.... Why? You are ruining the Nissan name with that, yes more easy HP but you do not have a Nissan anymore just some Frankenstein type of car that would not handle nearly as well as a true Nissan.
I have had errors in my build but it was all a learning experience, anyone can throw money at someone and say build this but then it is not your build.
this is just my opinion....
As for a KA, turn it into a KA24DET and it is a SR killer... plus the resale on a 240sx with a 300hp KA is far more than a SR, yes I know it costs a little more to build.

[HBT]

Ok, I don't know how far I'll get but just woke up. Going to pull crap out of the garage that I was supposed to do on my last day off, so I am behind schedule... Ha! There IS no schedule... Anyway, I will take some pics as I go and catch up wih you homies tonight when I'm done. I'm sure I will have questions and pics with a finger pointing to something and asking.... What the hell is this?? Lol. Thanks everyone for your support. And also for your warnings. I do appreciate it all. Here I go...

[Frank_Jaeger]

Originally Posted by SolTNtuz

Croustibat............. Why are you so against someone doing their own work, many may have failed at doing things but when it works damn it feels good. A LS1 into a Nissan.... Why? You are ruining the Nissan name with that, yes more easy HP but you do not have a Nissan anymore just some Frankenstein type of car that would not handle nearly as well as a true Nissan.
I have had errors in my build but it was all a learning experience, anyone can throw money at someone and say build this but then it is not your build.
this is just my opinion....
As for a KA, turn it into a KA24DET and it is a SR killer... plus the resale on a 240sx with a 300hp KA is far more than a SR, yes I know it costs a little more to build.

A boosted KA, with the added weight of a turbo, piping, IC, and the rest of the turbo bits, weighs the same as an LS1 swap. The LS1 can make the same horsepower more reliably and NA. All aluminum pushrod engine vs turbo iron block dohc engine.

The resale value on KA-T is worse than SR because people still believe KAs are garbage. If Nissan didn't want their "name" ruined maybe they should have shipped the 240sx with an engine that didn't need swapping. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather boost a KA than swap an SR, but as is from the factory an NA KA is underpowered and heavy.

Also Nissan doesn't have a name in this car segment anymore. Small, cheap, balanced RWD cars are a thing of the past. Nissan doesn't care about the S chassis.

[HBT]

Got up this morning...


had to clean all this crap up...




this is my son Matt... working out the rat nest the previous owner left us with



Got this out...


And this...


Then this happened...







Yes!!


Gulp... That looks scary. I hope I remember where everything goes back.


And this is where I stopped for now... Next, I get it on the engine stand after removing the trans and then clean out the rest of the garage and get ready to tear it down. I need a very clean space from what everyone has told me... I will have it ready to go. Then we can all find out what the hell happened to this thing. Rod, wrist pin, who knows... If I have time to get this on the engine stand tomorrow I will post those to... Quick question. What size bolts do I go get to mount this on the engine stand? Thanks to all for your help in advance. I know I will be needing it. This was the easy part...

[SolTNtuz]

Originally Posted by Frank_Jaeger

A boosted KA, with the added weight of a turbo, piping, IC, and the rest of the turbo bits, weighs the same as an LS1 swap. If Nissan didn't want their "name" ruined maybe they should have shipped the 240sx with an engine that didn't need swapping.

A LS1 with a borg warner 4 speed is about 590 lbs if you go automatic it is still heaver, a KA with 5 speed is about 445 lbs, the turbo may weigh 25 lbs and the piping / intercooler etc about 20 lbs. The transmissions are about 20 lbs difference so most of the extra weight is in the front of the car.
As for the motor the car was built in 79 and at the time it was good. In 1979 why didn't ford put a 725 HP supercharged motor in the mustang?
I agree that Nissan needs a RWD sports car.
I am all for power and am building a second car, 98 BMW 328i and I am getting the same " Install a LS1 " from other people. I decided to keep the 2.8 litre and supercharge it which should give me 360hp, not bad for a car that small and it is still a BMW.
About 30 years ago I had a 73 vega with a 427 L-88 pushing 600 hp, I do not want another straight line car.
These 2 projects are the first since then and may be out of touch with some of the new technology but I like to keep a car true to form even if it costs a little more and may need a little extra work.

Good luck in your build HBT.

[HBT]

Thanks SolTNtuz...

Ok got the trans off, clutch plate and now the dreaded flywheel bolts... I have an impact wrench, but low budge. Not a lot of psi in this thing... 20gal compressor. So, I will brute force breaker bar dance with this mother.

Oh, can someone help me with naming these plugs on the side of the trans. As you can see, one was never even hooked up, dead center...wonder what what that one is/was. Anyway, if you could, help me name the stuff (sensors?) on the side of this thing. Maybe, "from left to right"? I know I could look in the fsm, but thought this might be quicker.



I am hoping to get this on the stand today sometime. I will stop by here if I get stumped. Oh, also I measured the engine stand attachments on the stand and the bolts that I want to use on the rear of the engine, trying to use the best possible locations to use at centering it, and of course each bolt has a different length, and then adding that amount for the length of the bolt to use. That should be good ya? Any recommendations before I set out? Thanks.

[HBT]

Whew... Done. Now I'm going to watch, re-watch videos, and rear, re-read anything I can get my hands on. Just takin' it slow. I need to have an organized space to put all the bolts and bits and parts and bits into baggies and bins on shelves. But, Here it is on a stand.





So, I'm out for now. Next day off, I will start removing things, and get into the bottom end. I know this probably could have all been done in a day for most of you...haha Talk to ya'll later.

[HBT]

I'm a little confused... I got the head off, cams and lobes look good. Cylinder walls look good. No scoring, totally smooth. Turned it upside down now and looking at removing cylinders now. Stopped here. Get a pic up soon on it. Just, have not found what the culprit is yet. It had a loud rattle sound when we shut it off. Car was not running well at all. Stalled and sputtered. Told my son to turn it off. And then started breaking it down. Just before, about a couple of months, had a mechanic replace the timing chain. Plastic guides broke on the lower timing chain and fell into the oil pan. I found some of these pieces in the oil pan, but nothing metal. I will disassemble the bottom end and inspect that next, but I thought for sure I would have found the problem by now. But, maybe it will be in that bottom end somewhere. With this in mind, does anyone know what I might be looking for at this point in the bottom end? I know from different videos to inspect the journals and the rod and whatnot, but could it be a bearing? Hmmm, maybe? I will keep y'all posted. Confused right now... But, maybe it's in the bottom end somewhere. Thanks all.

[HBT]

Getting into the bottom end tomorrow.

[Frank_Jaeger]

Originally Posted by SolTNtuz

A LS1 with a borg warner 4 speed is about 590 lbs if you go automatic it is still heaver, a KA with 5 speed is about 445 lbs, the turbo may weigh 25 lbs and the piping / intercooler etc about 20 lbs. The transmissions are about 20 lbs difference so most of the extra weight is in the front of the car.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...ce-inside.html

I want you to explain this to me right now. There was another thread I believe on KA-T where someone did the same thing and the difference was also miniscule.

Originally Posted by HBT

I'm a little confused... I got the head off, cams and lobes look good. Cylinder walls look good. No scoring, totally smooth. Turned it upside down now and looking at removing cylinders now. Stopped here. Get a pic up soon on it. Just, have not found what the culprit is yet. It had a loud rattle sound when we shut it off. Car was not running well at all. Stalled and sputtered. Told my son to turn it off. And then started breaking it down. Just before, about a couple of months, had a mechanic replace the timing chain. Plastic guides broke on the lower timing chain and fell into the oil pan. I found some of these pieces in the oil pan, but nothing metal. I will disassemble the bottom end and inspect that next, but I thought for sure I would have found the problem by now. But, maybe it will be in that bottom end somewhere. With this in mind, does anyone know what I might be looking for at this point in the bottom end? I know from different videos to inspect the journals and the rod and whatnot, but could it be a bearing? Hmmm, maybe? I will keep y'all posted. Confused right now... But, maybe it's in the bottom end somewhere. Thanks all.

Check if the pistons are loose on the rods or if the rods are loose on the crank. There shouldn't be play up and down or side to side. Then check all the bearings. It'll be obvious which one failed if it was rod or pin knock. If you don't find anything, I'd spec it out to be sure.