The Future Automotive Thread

[deolio]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Must be trolling.

Nissan gave us the 370Z, Titan, Murano Convertible, Versa, Rouge, Cube and Juke....

Your reading comprehension needs work... unless you're saying those are good looking cars

[drift freaq]

Ok lets just cut to the chase here. You want the god honest truth from a original s30 owner and diehard s30 fan.
First off the 350 was a passable car but did not pay homage to S30 nor was even near what the S30 was when the S30 came out.
Was it good? Yes, was it what even Mr K the designer and father of the S30 thought Nissan should have done? No, you can even look that up.

The 350z was a compromise car much like the R35GTR Ghosn never wanted to build these cars. He did not see Nissan as the Sports car company it was . I truly believe he settled for these cars only because he had to or he would have the revolt on his hands then that was what wound up tossing his ass. Was he framed probably , did Renault rape and pillage Nissan and try take them over which was not part of the original agreement ? Yes, did Renault possibly play a part in axing the IDX I would not be surprised at all it did not fit their game plan for Nissan.

But back to this debate about the 350 . Most true Z enthusiasts while being impressed by the 300zx were not completely happy about it. In fact a lot of us choose 240sx’s aka 180sx because it really embodied the sole and concept of the Original 240z more than the 300zx Z32 . The Z had become a GT car not a all out Sports car. it was good but when the design of the 350 came out it looked like Nissan had bit Porsche with a nod to 300zx styling. It was not bad but it was still a bit ugly. People preferred the Skyline aka G35 because of that styling wise.

Now the 370 tried to harken back in looks and on paper does seem better, I cannot speak to how it drove though as I have not driven one. Though I can say while it seemed to go the right direction it did seem to be enough.

Now to Corbic retro styling is far from dead lol. There is a reason ,millennials love mid century modern which guess what is RETRO! lol
Nissan could do a lot worse than designing a new Z that cues off the 240z lots would buy it because lots are now drooling over original S30’s I see it all over the place.

So in essence its your personal taste in design which might be blinding you to the fact. I have seen your opinion on this as far as others here and the majority seems to come out against your opinion.
This is not personal its an observation .

In the end its really a wait and see situation. I truly believe Nissan has suffered from corporate management issues for a long time all the way back to the beginning of the Japanese recession in the late 80’s . They grew large during a boom time and could handle that when things changed they did not that is why they almost went bankrupt in the late 90’s and had to seek help from the Renault partnership. What they did not bargain for was Renaults answer was to bring in their own management and do it Renaults way.
So literally now Nissan is back to square aka late 90’s. Though this time they have to sort it out themselves

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

But back to this debate about the 350 . Most true Z enthusiasts while being impressed by the 300zx were not completely happy about it.

But in fairness the 280ZX and Z31 were not exactly nimble sports cars.

I agree the 350Z was a compromise. But it was also a reset to bring the Z back to an N/A affordable car. Chassis was just bloated since it was basically a Murano Coupe. It tried to fill the gap of the 240SX, Silvia, Skyline GT and 300ZX.

It was a sales success however.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Now to Corbic retro styling is far from dead lol. There is a reason ,millennials love mid century modern which guess what is RETRO!

Mid Century Modern is not retro. It's.... "modern" and is universally hailed because of its simplicity and timelessness.

Either way, I have zero faith Nissan will put out a good looking, competitive car. They've done nothing in 15 years to give me any indication they can.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Corbic

But in fairness the 280ZX and Z31 were not exactly nimble sports cars.

I agree the 350Z was a compromise. But it was also a reset to bring the Z back to an N/A affordable car. Chassis was just bloated since it was basically a Murano Coupe. It tried to fill the gap of the 240SX, Silvia, Skyline GT and 300ZX.

It was a sales success however.



Mid Century Modern is not retro. It's.... "modern" and is universally hailed because of its simplicity and timelessness.

Either way, I have zero faith Nissan will put out a good looking, competitive car. They've done nothing in 15 years to give me any indication they can.

Oh and yes I agree about the 280zx and Z31 truthfully a lot of the loyalists were not happy with those cars. The only people that liked them were the ones that had never owned a 240z. Oh and of course Paul Newman and Bob Sharpe who were factory backed in racing . I will always think one of the big mistakes Nissan NA made at the beginning of the 90?s was dropping factory support of race teams. They had been doing it since 1970 they had a rich race winning heritage because of it.

Mid Century modern is not really modern when you realize it was conceived almost 70 years ago most people would not consider 70 years old modern......but I will take that is your perspective but given one could say the 240z was timeless and still looks great today and not dated. lol

Oh and not all mid century modern is not always simplistic lol.
Just a few of the Iconic pieces. Plus that simplisticness was only in look in actual manufacturing lol. Eames had to make a machine to bend plywood, Saarinen had to rely on aircraft aluminum manufacturing for the bases of his chairs and tables that Knoll produced I could go farther but I will leave it at that.

I grew up with that shit and I happen to own many pieces of it. lol

Like I said earlier in the end it remains to be seen and yes I do not blame you for lack of faith in them pulling it off. Though one can hope.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

We've seen no indication of a new car so honestly, 2022 would be a stretch.

We have. Nissan made a video, which I posted. And they actually show it for quite a long time. ?22 seems very realistic.

https://youtu.be/aiqOLRJi7nU

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Oh and yes I agree about the 280zx and Z31 truthfully a lot of the loyalists were not happy with those cars. The only people that liked them were the ones that had never owned a 240z. Oh and of course Paul Newman and Bob Sharpe who were factory backed in racing . I will always think one of the big mistakes Nissan NA made at the beginning of the 90?s was dropping factory support of race teams. They had been doing it since 1970 they had a rich race winning heritage because of it.

Mid Century modern is not really modern when you realize it was conceived almost 70 years ago most people would not consider 70 years old modern......but I will take that is your perspective but given one could say the 240z was timeless and still looks great today and not dated. lol

Oh and not all mid century modern is not always simplistic lol.
Just a few of the Iconic pieces. Plus that simplisticness was only in look in actual manufacturing lol. Eames had to make a machine to bend plywood, Saarinen had to rely on aircraft aluminum manufacturing for the bases of his chairs and tables that Knoll produced I could go farther but I will leave it at that.

I grew up with that shit and I happen to own many pieces of it. lol

Like I said earlier in the end it remains to be seen and yes I do not blame you for lack of faith in them pulling it off. Though one can hope.

I'm actually surprised and pleased to see you are a fan of MCM. I'm a big fan as well, so apologies for painting with a broad brush and over simplifying for the sake of arguments.



I agree with you that Nissan NA has been fumbling for years, much like Volkswagen NA. These guys have been in the market for +60 years but let Hyundai and Kia come along and eat their lunches.

I feel like Japanese Corporate politics, while they drive to build incredibly high quality products, also are hold these organizations back. We see this time and time again in automotive, consumer electronics and video game industries.

I think you and I just have our own fixations based on our age and Nostalgia. You with the 70's S30 and 510, me with the late 80's R32, Z32 and S13.

My aversion to "retro" is simply it's rarely done well. It's almost always an inferior imitation. A PT Cruiser, HHR, '05 Mustang and SSR... I can clearly see the influence... And I can clearly articulate how the original is better.

Now a cleaver person may point out I own a Scatty and love Porsches... But I hated the original 2008 Challenger release. It was the 2015 redesign that allowed the car to mature its design and come into its own.

I value the cars anesthetics as it is, not for what it wants to be. FCA really owned that after 2015 when the built the Hellcat "brand" instead of just taking on nostalgic throw backs saying "remember when we were cool?!!!"

Same goes for movies, I can't think of a single remake/reboot that is better then the original. It's a reflection of our time and society. Everything is an homage or rip off to a more creative time.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I'm actually surprised and pleased to see you are a fan of MCM. I'm a big fan as well, so apologies for painting with a broad brush and over simplifying for the sake of arguments.



I agree with you that Nissan NA has been fumbling for years, much like Volkswagen NA. These guys have been in the market for +60 years but let Hyundai and Kia come along and eat their lunches.

I feel like Japanese Corporate politics, while they drive to build incredibly high quality products, also are hold these organizations back. We see this time and time again in automotive, consumer electronics and video game industries.

I think you and I just have our own fixations based on our age and Nostalgia. You with the 70's S30 and 510, me with the late 80's R32, Z32 and S13.

My aversion to "retro" is simply it's rarely done well. It's almost always an inferior imitation. A PT Cruiser, HHR, '05 Mustang and SSR... I can clearly see the influence... And I can clearly articulate how the original is better.

Now a cleaver person may point out I own a Scatty and love Porsches... But I hated the original 2008 Challenger release. It was the 2015 redesign that allowed the car to mature its design and come into its own.

I value the cars anesthetics as it is, not for what it wants to be. FCA really owned that after 2015 when the built the Hellcat "brand" instead of just taking on nostalgic throw backs saying "remember when we were cool?!!!"

Same goes for movies, I can't think of a single remake/reboot that is better then the original. It's a reflection of our time and society. Everything is an homage or rip off to a more creative time.

Interesting. I did not care about you owning the Scatty or the Porsches. lol but ya I see your point. I also understand your aversion to retro as I also felt the Mustang was so close yet got a few things so wrong. lol Partly due to engine choices dictating front end styling. I also while not a super Hellcat fan can not fault FCA for hitting it out of the ballpark they definitely tapped into something marketing wise with those cars. Plus the whole Dodge brothers ad campaign was brilliant. It reeked Nostalgia for the great days of American automobiles.
I also cannot fault you for Porsches as of all the German cars they are pretty much some of best. Mercedes was there for a long time too but I think they have gotten overly complicated and its been a drawback.

Though the only aversion I have ever had to Porsches was they are so damn common here. Like BMW?s are not lol. Plus I a Italian American and do have a soft spot for Ferrari. LOL at the Same time loving the Ford GT, GT40. If thats not a contradiction.

I do tend to agree we do not have much originals these days and I do like cars that do what they do because they were built to do it.
In that sense I do like Caymen?s a lot and have considered buying one if not a NSX.

[Dutchmalmiss]

More manual Supra news. Per the article, Toyota already has existing models with the manual gearbox they've been testing out.

https://carbuzz.com/news/a-manual-to...upra-is-coming

[TheRealSy90]

Did anyone catch the new Rogue launch?
https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-n...ive-it-424690/

Also Nissan has received more J.D.Power awards in 2020 than any other brand. Hopefully they can keep up the momentum with the upcoming model launches.
https://news.yahoo.com/nissan-most-a...000000083.html

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

More manual Supra news. Per the article, Toyota already has existing models with the manual gearbox they've been testing out.

https://carbuzz.com/news/a-manual-to...upra-is-coming

Considering it's an OEM option from BMW and a tuner sells the plug and play bolt in conversion.....

[ronmcdon]

Along with a manual Supra, a high-performance GRMN variant with over 500 horsepower is also expected. It should make use of the upcoming BMW M3's turbo-six engine.

good news. now that paired with a manual, weight/dimension advantage, a nice 10k discount over the next m3 would be a nice package. if they can pull this off, toyota more or less makes bmw irrelevant as far as a performance car manufacturer goes.

[exitspeed]

Finally!

Hopefully the new Z will at least be on the immediate horizon when the manual Supra comes out so I can make decision based on which car is actually better versus which one is available.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Considering it's an OEM option from BMW and a tuner sells the plug and play bolt in conversion.....

https://www.gatedsix.com/forsale



2020 A90 TOYOTA SUPRA
​
$8,990.00

Parts only, does not include installation. Inquiry for installation cos

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by Future240

https://www.gatedsix.com/forsale



2020 A90 TOYOTA SUPRA
​
$8,990.00

Parts only, does not include installation. Inquiry for installation cos

The only thing stopping me from buying a 599GTB was the lack of a manual transmission, nothing stopping me now!

[Dolph_KYAS13]

Originally Posted by cdlong

The only thing stopping me from buying a 599GTB was the lack of a manual transmission, nothing stopping me now!

Well that makes two of us!

[cdlong]

In all seriousness, I do want one and it would probably be my go-to if I had 6 figures+ to spend on a useless car. And a manual swap would be on the top of my to-do list if I had ANOTHER $55k to spend

[zombiewolf513]

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/n...er-146724.html

What did we do to deserve this kind of mistreatment?

[brndck]

Originally Posted by zombiewolf513

What did we do to deserve this kind of mistreatment?

hahahahaha that's AWFUL.
Ford already made the best looking silvia successor, as long as you look aft of the windshield.

[S14rebuild]

There is no semi-modern car nissan has built after n s15/r34 i would have any interest in buying/owning. Nothing checks that must have box for me

[ronmcdon]

i think if the next 86 goes turbo and retains its weight / dimension and price range, it will be the most promising silvia successor. mid to late ‘21 doesnt seem too far off

[kingkilburn]

I'm telling you, go drive an 86 or BRZ. It's already so good and bolt on power is cheap and easy. Seriously, fuck what you've heard or read and get in one.

[ronmcdon]

That's sometimes a challenging dilemma. Do you wait for a new model that could potentially be a lot better or does it come with compromises compared to it's predecessor? For some of us waiting another year or so to find out is not too hard.

On my end, not looking to buy another car anytime soon.

[brndck]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

That's sometimes a challenging dilemma. Do you wait for a new model that could potentially be a lot better or does it come with compromises compared to it's predecessor? For some of us waiting another year or so to find out is not too hard.

On my end, not looking to buy another car anytime soon.

same here. i'm not the type to buy a new car right off the lot, i'd rather buy something 10yrs old that has already had all the kinks sorted out by the aftermarket, plenty of parts created, plus screw taking that depreciation hit right off the bat, so even IF a new "S16" comes out, say in 2025, it will be 2035 before i'd look at buying one.

but that's just me.

[dorkidori_s13]

Ford Ecoboost Mustang = S16 Silvia

if nissan knew what the hell they were doing, they wouldve signed a deal with Ford and badge engineered the damn car like Toyota and BMW did with the Supra.

[silverarrow27]

^^^I've driven s13, s14, and Ecoboost Mustang. Never driven an s15. But if the s15 makes you feel like you're steering a long boat(front end feels too long for my personal taste) then I say the Ecoboost Mustang hits the nail on the head for being an S-chassis successor.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by silverarrow27

^^^I've driven s13, s14, and Ecoboost Mustang. Never driven an s15. But if the s15 makes you feel like you're steering a long boat(front end feels too long for my personal taste) then I say the Ecoboost Mustang hits the nail on the head for being an S-chassis successor.

if the s-chassis were made now... it would be the same way. car interiors have become very long across the dash board to the windshield and down the nose on the front of the car. yes, even in imports.

i drove my band mates 2012 Civic SI around quite a bit, couldnt tell for the life of me where the front of the car ended. same thing with my ex's Mazdaspeed 3, had no idea where that front end ended at.

its a staple of modern car design. the S16 would carry that same staple if it existed in modern times. youre comparing 90s automotive styling (and safety standards) to MODERN DAY stylings and safety standards. unfortunately, u cant do that in this debate as EVERY car now has that annoying long nose feel.

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by silverarrow27

^^^I've driven s13, s14, and Ecoboost Mustang. Never driven an s15. But if the s15 makes you feel like you're steering a long boat(front end feels too long for my personal taste) then I say the Ecoboost Mustang hits the nail on the head for being an S-chassis successor.

im with you on that. they make good grand tourers. very comfortable but not a fan of the vague steering (ford cant seem to get this right with mustangs) and softer suspension. they are probably excellent choice if one is up there in their twilight years and want a bit of excitement without upsetting body aches.

deeply regret not going on a long road trip when i had my mustang.

can see how the mustang is a more modern 240sx replacement. in stock form the s14 240 I had felt like a ponderous floaty cruiser. really needed an lsd and suspension work. makes sense how they were considered secretary cars at the time.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

im with you on that. they make good grand tourers. very comfortable but not a fan of the vague steering (ford cant seem to get this right with mustangs) and softer suspension. they are probably excellent choice if one is up there in their twilight years and want a bit of excitement without upsetting body aches.

deeply regret not going on a long road trip when i had my mustang.

can see how the mustang is a more modern 240sx replacement. in stock form the s14 240 I had felt like a ponderous floaty cruiser. really needed an lsd and suspension work. makes sense how they were considered secretary cars at the time.

Well considering the Silva filled the role as Japan's Mustang...

[future]

Idk how you guys Dismissed the 350

I will never own another tin can after having a Z33. Next car I buy will be another HR 100%

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

Ford Ecoboost Mustang = S16 Silvia

The Ecoboost Mustang being 3500-3600lbs automatically disqualifies it from being called/ compared to a S16, or Silvia.

Silvia = sub 2999lbs

If Toyota/ Subaru can make the FR-S/ GT86/ BRZ sub 3000lbs there can be no excuses.

Lets just hope the GR86 does indeed get the 2.4T option and weighs less than 3000lbs...