Healthcare Bill Passed Thread

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by ryguy

He's right, there are quite a few people who live in the ghetto and don't care to pull themselves out. I work in the city with a girl whose whole family does not work and takes a check from the government and lives in the projects. She makes as much working for a paycheck as each individual member of her family makes sitting on their asses doing nothing, and she says everybody around her has pretty much the same story. Why work when you can make just as much money as working part time PLUS a home PLUS benefits sitting on your ass?

Not all government housing is "ghetto" either. The people who live across the street from us are Section 8, and my neighborhood is a nice, average middle class neighborhood.

Another first-hand anecdotal story discribing what is wrong our country.

How can you people defend low life scum?

[rc1honda]

I work in health care. I know there are strong feelings on both sides. I feel like i kinda have a inside track to all of this.

First, i work in 1 of the most prestigious hospitals in the country. A academic center in Chicago. Even though we are a private not-for-profit organization we still do more medicare, Medicaid, and free heath care then any other university hospital in Chicago.

I want to tell you guys that people are sick and need help. And if you're defending private heath insurance you're insane. These huge billion dollar organizations have been raping the American people for far to long. Pre-existing conditions is a cop out and a way for insurance companies to drop their patients. Also don't think this bill is going to eat into their profits at all. I am very glad this is going to regulate private insurance. Remember this bill is really only applying to people with no health care at all.

One thing that may happen to me is my salary which is substantial,(for good reason) will most likely decrease. I am very good at what I do and do a very technical and complicated job. I deserve every cent of my salary. At the same time physicians salaries will also decease. This creates a dangerous environment where competent and passionate people will leave their fields for financial security elsewhere. But hey will have a chance to supplement their salary by using prevention techniques more then clinical care. I on the other hand may have to go back to school and get my CDL and become a crane operator or something.

To get to the point. A national health care system is a great idea if it is founded on the principal of competition. The government is going to be vying for your choice to use them as your health care provider. And as long as the taxation of the American people is held to a minimum then it should be transparent and seamless to the masses.

Truth being it's not the system abusers who are going to profit from this bill. It's the middle class unemployed guy who is 55 to young for medicare, who has a heart attack and loses his house from not being able to pay the bill from his coronary artery bypass surgery and subsequent ICU stay . This is a sad and harsh reality that people in the country face everyday.

If we are not taxed to death (which shouldn't happen) and I don't have to pay for a abortion, or some Heroin addicts methadone treatment. Which has amendments to make sure these types of scenarios are not covered. Then i can see nothing but good coming from this bill.

/rant

[ryguy]

Originally Posted by rc1honda

If we are not taxed to death (which shouldn't happen) and I don't have to pay for a abortion, or some Heroin addicts methadone treatment. Which has amendments to make sure these types of scenarios are not covered. Then i can see nothing but good coming from this bill.

All I can say is good luck with your hopes and dreams. This bill is going to open the tax flood gates like they have never been opened before. Between the combination of this bill being signed into law and the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, there will instantly be a nearly 70% increase in capital gains taxes in most states to cover this new law. Thats just one of a multitude of new taxes.

Also, good luck with that anti-abortion executive mandate being worth a damn.

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by s13dan

Top 1% owns 50% of the wealth in america. Top 10% has close to 75% of the wealth.

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Another good stat:

90% of millionaires have parents that were NOT millionaires.

People think that being poor means always poor and being rich means always rich.

In other news 72% of statistics are made up on the spot (including this one). I'm not saying I don't believe you, just provide links...

Originally Posted by jspaeth

I agree some does not equal all. But why is it that so many European immigrants worked their asses off through discrimination and many of those families are successful today, yet there are so many people today, especially in inner-city areas, who generation after generation cannot seem to do the same?

Why is today's class of "working poor" so much shittier at pulling themselves up and succeeding than their early 1900s counterparts?

.....and despite the fact that poor people today have a 1000x advantage over poor people/immigrants in the early 1900s.



I'll answer for you.

It's called work ethic. Family. Knowing right versus wrong. Saving rather than wasting money on frivelous things.

You know what I think it is, its the consumer society that was bread in the 1940s after WWII. TV, Internet, Cellphone, Credit Cards, and tons of other distractions to keep you from actually working. Before there was nothing else to do but work. Work ethic in this country is not what it used to be in ALL classes because of this.

Originally Posted by ryguy

He's right, there are quite a few people who live in the ghetto and don't care to pull themselves out. I work in the city with a girl whose whole family does not work and takes a check from the government and lives in the projects. She makes as much working for a paycheck as each individual member of her family makes sitting on their asses doing nothing, and she says everybody around her has pretty much the same story. Why work when you can make just as much money as working part time PLUS a home PLUS benefits sitting on your ass?

Not all government housing is "ghetto" either. The people who live across the street from us are Section 8, and my neighborhood is a nice, average middle class neighborhood.

You make a good point. There are moochers, I don't deny that. But isn't the problem then that the system does not weed these people out? We seem to agree that some welfare is needed for those that truly need it, so the real problem as I see it is that there needs to be welfare reform so that we don't have leeches in the system.

[rc1honda]

Originally Posted by ryguy

All I can say is good luck with your hopes and dreams. This bill is going to open the tax flood gates like they have never been opened before. Between the combination of this bill being signed into law and the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, there will instantly be a nearly 70% increase in capital gains taxes in most states to cover this new law. Thats just one of a multitude of new taxes.

Also, good luck with that anti-abortion executive mandate being worth a damn.

I can't say anything about tax hikes. Truth we won't know until they are enacted into law. But as far as the abortion goes it's not hopes and dreams. The bill specifcally states that under no circumstances are tax payer dollars going to go to pay for abortion. That's in the bill...

Try not to conjecture to much. All it will do is cause confusion. Abortion was one of the things of the bill that both parties agreed on. And that was our taxes will not be going to abortion.

And again you guys are looking at this as some kind of huge new welfare system. That only people in slums and ghettos will be able to use. The government is now in the insurance business. So you can still have your private insurance or you can choose the Uncle Sam plan. But like I said if this is done correctly and through a competitive standpoint, the taxes should be kept to a minimum.

And BTW ryguy I can't wait to see Peavy on the mound this year. With Pierre leading off. Sox 2010 baby.

[BustedS13]

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculure inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

At the apppropriate time as regulated by US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology at the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the enviromental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshall's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

[KA24DESOneThree]

You just posted the silliest thing you've ever posted, and it's not even noon yet.

Are you trying to illustrate the hypocrisy of those of us who believe the government should get the hell out of our lives by showing us exactly how far their tentacles reach?

Aren't you making our point while belittling it, all the while distracting from the purpose of the thread?

Health care isn't something we're guaranteed. It is something created by business, as business. It is a service rendered. It costs money to administer, and the schooling is some of the most expensive in the market.

Government is NOT a business entity; it has no place in being competitive with private business.

Government has no place regulating private business; we the consumers are burdened with that because we have the choice, in a competitive market free from governmental coercion, to say no to the dirty water, to the unreliable power, to the potholed roads, to the unsafe cars. We have the power in a competitive market, but in this market, in this country, we do not have power.

We are the subjugated masses, with our decisions made by those in ivory towers who have no idea what they are actually doing. It sounds good in theory but in application it's a mess; a mess which has reduced our productive capacity and which has kept us mired in a bureaucratic morass.

Point no fingers at me while you burn this country down, just get the hell out of my way.

[Ghost240]

Alright since many of the people here are to stupid to actually go through the bill with adobe acrobat reader and do keyword searches on their misinformation that they keep spewing.

1. The cost of this bill is around 10 Billion dollars in the next decade....so that means somewhere around 83,333,333.33 a year. Now the WAR cost us 136 billion in 2009 alone which works out to 11.33 billion a month. Soooooooo 83,333,333.33 is really NOTHING compared to the other expenditures.

2. You realize that hospitals CAN NOT turn people away that need care right? It is their oath and law. So who do you think pays for all those people who can't afford healthcare anyway? Hmmmmmm....????

3. WELFARE IS NOT PRIMARILY THE FAULT OF PEOPLE IN THE GHETTO. RURAL AMERCIA IS THE VAST MAJORITY OF IT. SO STOP BLAMING THE GHETTOS.

Sorry i had to write it so big but stupid people don't read shit unless its in front of their face.

and KA24DESOneThree what you say would be great and all in an ideal society where people educate themselves via the issues, discuss them intelligently with cited points and then came to a conclusion. But the average American is a fucking idiot. Sorry but it's true. People rather have shiny shit then educate themselves and this is beyond schooling. This is personal education.

And you can't say we do not have the power. Every person in this country has power. Individually it may not be as strong but as a collective it can create whole social changes at a rapid rate. Hence why the last 100 years has been so progress.

It's sad that you want to sit here, complain and moan and not do anything. Then at the same time say don't blame me? If you are a citizen of this nation you have a responsibility, whether you are for something or against it, make it known. Put forth an effort to have things changed or reasoned out. This bullshit complacency is the reason we are in the position we are in today.

So many people were happy with how things were going when things were on the up and up. In turn people got complacent and too trusting. Now they want to point the finger, and they should point them and them fucking selves. Act like a bunch of damn kids crying over spilled milk. You don't like it, find a way to fix it or STFU.

/rant

And KA its not a personal attack.

[Antihero983]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculure inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

At the apppropriate time as regulated by US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology at the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the enviromental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshall's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

I love you.

[Oilcover]

Originally Posted by Ghost240

1. The cost of this bill is around 10 Billion dollars in the next decade....so that means somewhere around 83,333,333.33 a year. Now the WAR cost us 136 billion in 2009 alone which works out to 11.33 billion a month. Soooooooo 83,333,333.33 is really NOTHING compared to the other expenditures.

uhmm...The cost of this bill is 940 billion over the next 10 years.

Originally Posted by Ghost240

misinformation that I spewing.

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

You just posted the silliest thing you've ever posted, and it's not even noon yet.

when you posted this, i had already eaten lunch 90 minutes prior.
this is the only response you will receive.

Originally Posted by RedEvilRPS13

I love you.

let's hold hands at recess.

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculure inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

At the apppropriate time as regulated by US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology at the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the enviromental protection agency, using legal tender issued by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshall's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

+10000000000000000 posi rep

[kingkilburn]

[Ghost240]

Originally Posted by Oilcover

uhmm...The cost of this bill is 940 billion over the next 10 years.

that was a mistype on my end. But still 1360 billion over 10yrs versus 940Billion. Still a huge difference,

[KA24DESOneThree]

How much are taxes increased by this bill?

[secondtonone317]

great, time to stop busting my ass to save for the future......with dickheads like these assholes running the country I can coast my ass to retirment. Not to mention thee US dollar is gonna be worth shit by that time. Can't even buy gold cause all the rich folks knows its gonna happen and they rushed the gold and thanks to that its at an all time high.

Case and point, my section 8 government assisted neighbour has a wife and about 4 kids sits on his ass all day, collects public assistance, and just got a brand new flatscreen.....WTF, I work and still can't justify buying a $1500 TV while I have to pay for this worthless piece of shit to sit on his ass all day.

[Walperstyle]

Originally Posted by wh0aitznic0

Don't feel like googling, but I'm guessing this gives free healthcare to people like in Europe and Canada?

If it is, I knew it was coming. I told everybody that Obama was socialist before he got elected.

Canada does not have Free Healthcare. Its only slightly better. I paid $30,000 in taxes last year.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Making that which should be private public is socialism.

Have we been advancing toward a more perfect [sic] union or away from it?

Oh, and I know I have power. I've advocated change before it was a campaign slogan. I've protested, I've voted, I've participated in activism.

The real question, however, is who gets blamed for this? Are all of the "yes" votes equally culpable in the destruction of rights and the theft of billions, and thus abrogate any pact between men to act civilly? A man who comes to my home or business, stealing my money ($400 billion over the next ten years), and mince no words about it, it is stealing, to provide a service to those who cannot afford it is a thief. The man who sent him is a thief.

[kingkilburn]

I wasn't implying that we aren't moving towards more socialism. We have been fairly socialist from the beginning. We have not been purely socialist and I don't expect us to ever be(and would not want to be) but the right kind of programs at the right times have done a lot and will continue to do a lot for this country. I would like to see a renewed progressive movement. More social programs with competent oversight to stop the leeches along with more grants for the betterment of America and it's people.


At the same time they do not need to mandate that any one have insurance and fine those that refuse. Why on earth should you pay taxes for insurance you may not need then be fined on top of that for then not having any.

[ryguy]

A.) There are poor people in rural America that I dislike feeding government dollars to just as much as ghetto poor people, so stop shouting about that, it's irrelevant.

B.) Busted, all the things you posted up are necessary monopolies, and should be run by the Federal Government. Yes, they are socialist, but there is no other practical way to run most of those things. Healthcare is not one of those things.

[kingkilburn]

Why should healthcare be a for-profit industry?

[drftmark]

nice copy and paste Busteds13...

I am going to love paying MORE money for worthless shits who are supposed to die off so they can't procreate 5 + more little fucks that I/we all end up paying for.

I do care about my fellow man, but only the ones who strive for success and want to work for themselves. The meaning of the saying "time is money" is changing very fast to "idle time is money."

[kingkilburn]

It sounds a lot like people in here need to start writing/calling their representatives about welfare reform instead of complaining about this bill.

I personally work very hard in school, more hours than when I worked a full time job. I make no money and have no health insurance because of my age. Thanks to this bill I will have health coverage for 3 more years which will be enough for me to get out of college and make enough to afford my own.

The best part of this bill though is that it has opened the flood gates for serious healthcare reform.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by ryguy

B.) Busted, all the things you posted up are necessary monopolies, and should be run by the Federal Government. Yes, they are socialist, but there is no other practical way to run most of those things. Healthcare is not one of those things.

So you're saying that there is no other way to have a private company manage a road project? Or the power plants? Or the Water? You're 100% right - as if it was, they woudl spiral out of control, and companies would 'cut throats' to maximize their profits and line their pockets...thus hurting everyone who needs those services


...oh wait, isn't that what the health care industry is doing now, and subsequently driving the costs of health care to astronomical levels?



Just think about it for a minute -- sure the government may pass the 'burden' onto everyone, but in the same aspect, imagine how much money employers could save by not paying into insurance, and instead just giving YOU more base salary?

In the end, the cost to 90% of america is the same...make more salary, spend more taxes, or spend less taxes to make less money....

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by secondtonone317

Case and point, my section 8 government assisted neighbour has a wife and about 4 kids sits on his ass all day, collects public assistance, and just got a brand new flatscreen.....WTF, I work and still can't justify buying a $1500 TV while I have to pay for this worthless piece of shit to sit on his ass all day.

There you go, a THIRD independent anecdotal story of something similar.

That is what we are fucking tired of.

Tired of giving money to people that "need help" but are driving around in new cars living in nice houses and buying video games, computers, flatscreens etc.

I am so sick of supporting worthless fucks.

There are people that really need the help, but the worthless lazy fucks ruin it for everyone.

[kingkilburn]

I say throw the leeches in work camps and work them till they pay it all back. At the least they will have good job skills afterwords.

[ryguy]

Originally Posted by codyace

So you're saying that there is no other way to have a private company manage a road project? Or the power plants? Or the Water? You're 100% right - as if it was, they woudl spiral out of control, and companies would 'cut throats' to maximize their profits and line their pockets...thus hurting everyone who needs those services.

ACTUALLY, my power and water are BOTH owned and run by a private company, NIPSCO, which is not in any way government run.

Also, a lot of the things Busted posted are run by the states, like the state DOT. Most road construction is run by the State DOT. The Constitution gives individual states the power to do things like this. In fact, if this bill passed each individual state (similar to what Massachussetts has) I would have less of a problem with it.

Also, the Constitution mandates that we have a standing military.

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

It sounds a lot like people in here need to start writing/calling their representatives about welfare reform instead of complaining about this bill.

I make no money and have no health insurance because of my age.

I actually wrote my representative and senator about this bill long ago. They don't give a fuck (especially my representative.) I vote. I will be voting.

I'm surprised you cant get on your parents policy if you are a full time student.

[kingkilburn]

Past 18 I had to be full time to qualify. After that you are cut off at 23.

Seeing as I took a break from college, really bad idea I might add, I didn't finish before my coverage ran out.

This is through Tricare too so it's already funded by the Feds. Lets see how long it takes them to start coverage again.


I think if the Federal government taxed us less or gave the states back more most states would already have state run healthcare.

While it might not be constitutional for the Federal government to run a healthcare system it is acceptable to me. When they wrote limits into the constitution they were trying to limit the government's power to control people not what it could do for them. But again the states should be doing it.

[lewisfk]

i like the bill, but it's a work in progress! nothing is perfect, and yes they said the same thing about medicare and social security! so please people give it time and lets see were it goes from here! I WISH EVERYONE COMPLAINED AND PROTESTED WHEN BUSH INVADE IRAQ! we spend more than 30 billion a month on a war that shouldn't have been. But u cant spend less than a third of that for healthcare? I guess we care more about war than the health of others!

[lewisfk]

Originally Posted by E Double

if it's anything like military health care, you won't be allowed to file a law suit for malpractice.

Your statement is false, military doctors themselves can be sued as well as the hospital or clinic were the malpractice took place! I worked in 2 navel hospital and both of them had several lawsuits pending at the time! I am a Navy Corpsman, if u dont know what that is look it up! Navel Hospitals like Balboa, Portsmouth, and Bethesda keep law suits due to the fact there training commands! The process is longer and there are more rules, but it can be done!