glowing turbo - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

drb5721 · 12-07-2015, 09:12 AM

Hey guys. I am new to the S chassis. Always liked them and until recently never been able to afford one. Found a guy through a friend with an SR swapped 92 coupe. Coilovers, open downpipe, good bit of front suspension work, aftermarket radiator, bov, coolant reservoir, and some other odds and ends. The car came with a turbo elbow I have yet to install and it came with a Freddy intake. When deciding to purchase it, previous owner stated he had an issue that after 30 minutes or so the car would run hot. He did head gaskets, studs, and a bunch of other stuff trying to fix it and thought it was the turbo. I towed it home and found some clamps look but no significant leaks. Day after thanksgiving I was driving to work and all of a sudden I see the temp gauge rising. First time in a month of owning it. Turns out one of the hoses under the intake busted. Pulled intake, replaced hoses, and decided now would be the time to install the Freddy intake. All installed with a IACV relocation kit and having a few issues. First being idle concerns which I have to still do some work on. I changed the oil to confirm it wasnt milky. Took car for a quick spin. Ran good. Spooled nicely. Next thing I know I'm seeing smoke from under the hood and the exhaust. Thought there was some oil spraying up from under the hood onto the windshield and hit the wipers. Leaned up in the seat at the same time and realized I had a fire under the hood. Quickly pulled over, shut the car off and popped the hood. Manifold and turbo were GLOWING red. With the smoke I seen I am thinking I have blown a turbo seal and the oil got into the center housing causing the turbo to get hot. This would explain the smoke and the glowing. The fire started because the manifold wrap the previous owner installed couldn't withstand the heat.

Basically my question is if a bad oil seal would be the cause of what I experienced. I do not have much S chassis experience, mostly Z chassis.

Any and all help would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

ultimateirving · 12-07-2015, 01:40 PM

Wow that's crazy. Is this a stock sr? Stock tune too?

drb5721 · 12-07-2015, 01:44 PM

From all I can tell it is. I do not see anything beyond the normal additions of downpipe, CAI, FMIC, tubular manifold, and now the Freddy intake.

EnnEssEnnKAT · 12-07-2015, 02:00 PM

The glowing red is probably caused by the exhaust gases. That's about the only thing in the engine bay that will get something red hot. My best guess is that you're running lean, either because of a weak fuel pump, bad regulator, or busted mass air flow. Could also be timing is off, something along those lines. A lean condition would create that intense red-hot heat.

drb5721 · 12-07-2015, 02:04 PM

I just didn't think that simply swapping a greddy style intake would cause this issue. I have yet to read an installation that stated anything with having to check timing etc when swapping the manifolds. Car never did this prior to the coolant hose busting.

FeArZ · 12-07-2015, 03:09 PM

More air = more fuel. I don't see any mention of changing injectors or tuning.

The car needs a tune also. Do you have a wideband? This is vital to understanding what is going on with the engine. It would help eliminate some factors so you can narrow it down.

drb5721 · 12-07-2015, 03:21 PM

I have a gauge but no sensor. Came in the car like so. The reason I am thinking I have a blown oil seal in the turbo is the grey smoke I am burning when I drove it. Turbo spools fine. But there is a huge trail of smoke behind the car. It does it at all times now. Car runs great, just smokes like crazy. I looked at the exhaust where the elbow meets the downpipe and realized there is a small leak there and after the exhaust starts to get hot, I get smoke from there that smells like oil.

Green Arrow · 12-07-2015, 03:55 PM

Sounds like a timing issue, also do you have a afr gauge?

drb5721 · 12-07-2015, 04:02 PM

Timing still does not explain the oil burning. If I blew an oil seal, oil could be getting in the exhaust housing and getting hot.

Green Arrow · 12-07-2015, 04:05 PM

Given you don't know if the block has 120k miles or 20k miles....it could be rings or it could be a pinhole in the oil return... If the spark is coming late it could be combusting in the turbo

Kingtal0n · 12-07-2015, 06:00 PM

If you glow a manifold, your timing is wrong, or you are making way more power than you have fuel for. Fuel cools of the exhaust (EGT) so does water injection, ethanol, methanol. But you are on straight gasoline right? So the EGT is skyrocketing either because you ran the engine hard (make power) without enough fuel (cooling), OR, Your timing is retarded and pushing heat to the exhaust system. The oil may be related somehow but it is mostly likely a result OF your high EGT and not the cause.

Steps I would take

0. compression test the engine to make sure a piston hasnt broken into pieces, allowing blow-by to push oil out of the engine
1: make sure you have enough fuel for the power you are making, i.e. Watch the wideband.

2. Set the ignition timing properly, use the FSM or find one of my many posts where I explain how I do it
3. Replace the ECU/CAS if the wideband says a good number (11:1 or 12:1 for example) and the ignition timing appears right, and the compression test is good. Alternatively you can diagnose each cylinder individually for a timing problem. I have seen this happen on a POwer FC, after 30 minutes of hot run time, suddenly one or two cylinders would glow red, the ECU was bad.

EnnEssEnnKAT · 12-07-2015, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drb5721

Timing still does not explain the oil burning. If I blew an oil seal, oil could be getting in the exhaust housing and getting hot.

Could have melted the seals, when it went red hot. I'm not sure what it is but I'd get that af sensor and a turbo rebuild, and go that route.

Green Arrow · 12-07-2015, 09:07 PM

exactly, timing is a big variable for turbo motors; it highlights the problem.

drb5721 · 12-07-2015, 09:12 PM

The oil burning and smoke started on first startup post coolant repair and manifold swap. Will check timing. Compression shouldnt be an issue as the engine runs extremely smooth all the way throughout the RPM range. I initially thought my issue was the loose clamp on the oil return. Again however, the oil burning was there before driving the car. Had a friend at work today check the shaft play in the turbo since its my day off, and he says its got a good amount of play, so rebuild/replacement was inevitable . Will see if i have a bung I can install a wideband sensor in. Will check compression.

R@ddy · 12-07-2015, 09:45 PM

too much timing OR running lean. tune the fucking thing.

Croustibat · 12-08-2015, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeArZ

More air = more fuel. I don't see any mention of changing injectors or tuning.

That is all great and good, but turbo engines don't run alphaN EMS, so you are wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeArZ

The car needs a tune also. Do you have a wideband? This is vital to understanding what is going on with the engine. It would help eliminate some factors so you can narrow it down.

His timing is way too retarded, no need for a wideband there. Turbo glowing at this points means the CAS is way off. If there is a lack of fuel problem, it does not come from the tune, but from a fuel delivery problem.

Anyway you are right on the car needing a tune, but it has nothing to do with fueling, and it needs to be sorted BEFORE getting tuned.

drb5721 · 12-08-2015, 07:04 AM

Never had an issue until after this hose ruptured. Replaced and swapped intakes per every write up available. Nothing anywhere states anything about needing to tune, change timing, fuel, or anything. None of that was messed with. No sensors were changed. Fuel system is the same with no change other than being put on another manifold. CAS was only unplugged to allow removal of the manifold. Again, compression will be tested even though the car runs entirely too smooth for me to think there is an issue there.

EnnEssEnnKAT · 12-08-2015, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drb5721

Never had an issue until after this hose ruptured. Replaced and swapped intakes per every write up available. Nothing anywhere states anything about needing to tune, change timing, fuel, or anything. None of that was messed with. No sensors were changed. Fuel system is the same with no change other than being put on another manifold. CAS was only unplugged to allow removal of the manifold. Again, compression will be tested even though the car runs entirely too smooth for me to think there is an issue there.

I see what you mean, you basically didn't touch anything except the air intake. Not needing a tune is YMMV, really.. Before the intake, there was no turbo glowing. After the intake install, the turbo was red hot. Sounds too coincidential but my guess is something else went haywire.

Kingtal0n · 12-08-2015, 07:49 AM

You need a wideband. Nobody runs even the cheapest $2 redtop without a wideband. It doesnt make any sense and would prevent 98% of this posting. Guessing that the compression is good by the way it drives is also a mistake- even if it is good, you still want to be taking a measurement, and writing it down, at least once per year.

12-07-2015, 09:12 AM	#1
drb5721 Leaky Injector Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: nc Age: 33 Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	glowing turbo Hey guys. I am new to the S chassis. Always liked them and until recently never been able to afford one. Found a guy through a friend with an SR swapped 92 coupe. Coilovers, open downpipe, good bit of front suspension work, aftermarket radiator, bov, coolant reservoir, and some other odds and ends. The car came with a turbo elbow I have yet to install and it came with a Freddy intake. When deciding to purchase it, previous owner stated he had an issue that after 30 minutes or so the car would run hot. He did head gaskets, studs, and a bunch of other stuff trying to fix it and thought it was the turbo. I towed it home and found some clamps look but no significant leaks. Day after thanksgiving I was driving to work and all of a sudden I see the temp gauge rising. First time in a month of owning it. Turns out one of the hoses under the intake busted. Pulled intake, replaced hoses, and decided now would be the time to install the Freddy intake. All installed with a IACV relocation kit and having a few issues. First being idle concerns which I have to still do some work on. I changed the oil to confirm it wasnt milky. Took car for a quick spin. Ran good. Spooled nicely. Next thing I know I'm seeing smoke from under the hood and the exhaust. Thought there was some oil spraying up from under the hood onto the windshield and hit the wipers. Leaned up in the seat at the same time and realized I had a fire under the hood. Quickly pulled over, shut the car off and popped the hood. Manifold and turbo were GLOWING red. With the smoke I seen I am thinking I have blown a turbo seal and the oil got into the center housing causing the turbo to get hot. This would explain the smoke and the glowing. The fire started because the manifold wrap the previous owner installed couldn't withstand the heat. Basically my question is if a bad oil seal would be the cause of what I experienced. I do not have much S chassis experience, mostly Z chassis. Any and all help would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

12-07-2015, 01:40 PM	#2
ultimateirving Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: arizona Age: 36 Posts: 1,521 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Wow that's crazy. Is this a stock sr? Stock tune too? __________________ Z32 with lq4 swap Desert Street Scene \|\| Dssevents.com

12-07-2015, 01:44 PM	#3
drb5721 Leaky Injector Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: nc Age: 33 Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	From all I can tell it is. I do not see anything beyond the normal additions of downpipe, CAI, FMIC, tubular manifold, and now the Freddy intake.

12-07-2015, 02:00 PM	#4
EnnEssEnnKAT Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 427 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	The glowing red is probably caused by the exhaust gases. That's about the only thing in the engine bay that will get something red hot. My best guess is that you're running lean, either because of a weak fuel pump, bad regulator, or busted mass air flow. Could also be timing is off, something along those lines. A lean condition would create that intense red-hot heat.

12-07-2015, 02:04 PM	#5
drb5721 Leaky Injector Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: nc Age: 33 Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I just didn't think that simply swapping a greddy style intake would cause this issue. I have yet to read an installation that stated anything with having to check timing etc when swapping the manifolds. Car never did this prior to the coolant hose busting.

12-07-2015, 03:09 PM	#6
FeArZ Leaky Injector Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Houston, TX Age: 31 Posts: 79 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	More air = more fuel. I don't see any mention of changing injectors or tuning. The car needs a tune also. Do you have a wideband? This is vital to understanding what is going on with the engine. It would help eliminate some factors so you can narrow it down.

12-07-2015, 03:21 PM	#7
drb5721 Leaky Injector Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: nc Age: 33 Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I have a gauge but no sensor. Came in the car like so. The reason I am thinking I have a blown oil seal in the turbo is the grey smoke I am burning when I drove it. Turbo spools fine. But there is a huge trail of smoke behind the car. It does it at all times now. Car runs great, just smokes like crazy. I looked at the exhaust where the elbow meets the downpipe and realized there is a small leak there and after the exhaust starts to get hot, I get smoke from there that smells like oil.

12-07-2015, 03:55 PM	#8
Green Arrow BANNED Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: North Korea Posts: 349 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Sounds like a timing issue, also do you have a afr gauge?

12-07-2015, 04:02 PM	#9
drb5721 Leaky Injector Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: nc Age: 33 Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Timing still does not explain the oil burning. If I blew an oil seal, oil could be getting in the exhaust housing and getting hot.

12-07-2015, 04:05 PM	#10
Green Arrow BANNED Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: North Korea Posts: 349 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Given you don't know if the block has 120k miles or 20k miles....it could be rings or it could be a pinhole in the oil return... If the spark is coming late it could be combusting in the turbo

12-07-2015, 06:00 PM	#11
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	If you glow a manifold, your timing is wrong, or you are making way more power than you have fuel for. Fuel cools of the exhaust (EGT) so does water injection, ethanol, methanol. But you are on straight gasoline right? So the EGT is skyrocketing either because you ran the engine hard (make power) without enough fuel (cooling), OR, Your timing is retarded and pushing heat to the exhaust system. The oil may be related somehow but it is mostly likely a result OF your high EGT and not the cause. Steps I would take 0. compression test the engine to make sure a piston hasnt broken into pieces, allowing blow-by to push oil out of the engine 1: make sure you have enough fuel for the power you are making, i.e. Watch the wideband. 2. Set the ignition timing properly, use the FSM or find one of my many posts where I explain how I do it 3. Replace the ECU/CAS if the wideband says a good number (11:1 or 12:1 for example) and the ignition timing appears right, and the compression test is good. Alternatively you can diagnose each cylinder individually for a timing problem. I have seen this happen on a POwer FC, after 30 minutes of hot run time, suddenly one or two cylinders would glow red, the ECU was bad.

12-07-2015, 09:07 PM	#13
Green Arrow BANNED Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: North Korea Posts: 349 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	exactly, timing is a big variable for turbo motors; it highlights the problem.

12-07-2015, 09:12 PM	#14
drb5721 Leaky Injector Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: nc Age: 33 Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	The oil burning and smoke started on first startup post coolant repair and manifold swap. Will check timing. Compression shouldnt be an issue as the engine runs extremely smooth all the way throughout the RPM range. I initially thought my issue was the loose clamp on the oil return. Again however, the oil burning was there before driving the car. Had a friend at work today check the shaft play in the turbo since its my day off, and he says its got a good amount of play, so rebuild/replacement was inevitable . Will see if i have a bung I can install a wideband sensor in. Will check compression.

12-07-2015, 09:45 PM	#15
R@ddy Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Zacatecas, Mx; Paramount, Ca Age: 34 Posts: 1,628 Trader Rating: (32) Feedback Score: 32 reviews	too much timing OR running lean. tune the fucking thing.

12-08-2015, 07:04 AM	#17
drb5721 Leaky Injector Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: nc Age: 33 Posts: 77 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Never had an issue until after this hose ruptured. Replaced and swapped intakes per every write up available. Nothing anywhere states anything about needing to tune, change timing, fuel, or anything. None of that was messed with. No sensors were changed. Fuel system is the same with no change other than being put on another manifold. CAS was only unplugged to allow removal of the manifold. Again, compression will be tested even though the car runs entirely too smooth for me to think there is an issue there.

12-08-2015, 07:49 AM	#19
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	You need a wideband. Nobody runs even the cheapest $2 redtop without a wideband. It doesnt make any sense and would prevent 98% of this posting. Guessing that the compression is good by the way it drives is also a mistake- even if it is good, you still want to be taking a measurement, and writing it down, at least once per year.