This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[Chris28]

Originally Posted by TrustS13

With 15mm front spacers + S14 LCA mod.
17x9 +12 before.. dunno after, probably -20 something ish.

LCA length doesn't affect offset. Your offset is +12-15, so -3.

As far ask the ackerman conversation, Mike Kojima likes a lot of ackerman for self steer. Thoughts/comments?

[KA240SX808]

No but it does widen the track which would have the same effect as a lower offset, at least in terms of wheel position.

[David48]

Negative batman.

[Silvi]

Looking for recommendation - which tie rods + LCA i have to buy according to my new setup.
I installed godspeed massive spacer + cut the bumpstops, Now the tie rods hitting the LCA at full lock + because the over centre the wheel locked at full steering lock.
I also cut by 17mm the inner tie+end at passenger side because i maxed the screwing at OEM rods and can't recenter.

So now I have to buy new tie rods + LCAs - So im looking for recommendation which one to buy without making a mistake. The tie rods have to be more adjustable/short than the OEM so I can recenter without cut them.
About the over centre I thought about driftworks/max offset spacers but the problem is again that I need more screwing at the tie rods + The spacers have little pins for the rack and because im using angle spacers there is no pins.

Thanks!

[jaysgottaredtop]

Originally Posted by KA240SX808

No but it does widen the track which would have the same effect as a lower offset, at least in terms of wheel position.

technically, yes, the FLCA affects the position of the wheel. but offset is strictly measured from the hub. the FLCA length has nothing to do with it.

...unless you're looking at if from a strict wheels-always-pointed-forwards-because-i'm-hardparking-at-a-stance-meet point of view. then yes, you mayyyyyybe could justify adding some of the the FLCA lengthening into your offset calculations.

...but this thread is specific to actual driving, not stance meets. thus, FLCA doesn't count.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by Chris28

LCA length doesn't affect offset. Your offset is +12-15, so -3.

As far ask the ackerman conversation, Mike Kojima likes a lot of ackerman for self steer. Thoughts/comments?

As far as ackerman goes, I think it's just how far you want to go with it. A lot of it falls in the "driver preference" category. It seems that if the sole purpose of your car is drifting, then little to no ackerman is a good thing. You can carry more speed and deeper angle easier, but you'll have to get used to the different steering feel. The same goes for reducing caster in the front.

Dai and Pawel seem very well adjusted to the caster they run and ackerman that their Driftworks knuckles give, and have proven very successful despite the "disadvantage".

If the car is dual purpose, then you'll probably want to retain some ackerman, as it's good for normal turn-in on the street and circuit driving. At least that's my view on it.

Originally Posted by Silvi

Looking for recommendation - which tie rods + LCA i have to buy according to my new setup.

I would advise you to forget about those huge spacers you have and get your knuckles modded and use longer tie rod ends. You're also going to have to run less caster or use adjustment spacers to cure your overcentering.

There are a myriad of combinations and compromises to get lots of angle, but the big spacer is probably the worst one.

[Motary]

I finally managed to find a picture of Trelas front suspension, looks hella ghetto lol

[PoorMans180SX]

Hahaha indeed it does. I'm pretty sure he runs Driftworks knuckles, as he is sponsored by them.

[Silvi]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

I would advise you to forget about those huge spacers you have and get your knuckles modded and use longer tie rod ends. You're also going to have to run less caster or use adjustment spacers to cure your overcentering.

There are a myriad of combinations and compromises to get lots of angle, but the big spacer is probably the worst one.

Ok, So I will cut the knuckles and throw the spacers out
But i still need recommendation for new rods(I guess lower outer will be better) and new LCA which will not hit the rod at big angle.
I also thought about DW Geomaster Tension Rods, What do you think about them?

Thanks!

[GKTECH]

They fit (almost)




We've got to make a few tweaks to the current design including a slight change to the ABS sensor position (around 1mm's) and a change to the steering arms. We are a bit behind schedule but we are pushing as hard as we can to get these bad boys up for sale. LUKE FINK will get a revised version of what is seen here along with a few other drifters including Simon Michelmore and Kelly Wong. They should have them in their hands in around 3 weeks time and then we've got another 2 pairs which will be used for the final destructive testing (on a workbench)

Overall, we are SUPER happy with the finished product and we know you guys will be too.

[prego]

i run psm lower control arms and driftworks knuckles ive had my roll center checked at a local race alignment shop and had it raised to the best situation according to their measurements

i can go 20mm lower according to them but my problem is at this height i can only get a max of -3 degrees of camber because the stub of the lca will hit the side wall with any more negative camber any one else having this issue?

[singlecamslam]

Would running some wheel spacers help? ^

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by prego

i run psm lower control arms and driftworks knuckles ive had my roll center checked at a local race alignment shop and had it raised to the best situation according to their measurements

i can go 20mm lower according to them but my problem is at this height i can only get a max of -3 degrees of camber because the stub of the lca will hit the side wall with any more negative camber any one else having this issue?

How are you adjusting camber? With your camber plates the wheel should move with the shank.

[prego]

This is on an s15 lca extended 1 inch over standard camber tops all the way in and I have alot of adjustment where the knuckle meets the shock as I've slotted one hole on each side if I run low I can have up to -6 degrees but at a correct height I can only get -3

[PoorMans180SX]

Well if you can't do any of those three things at that height, the only solutions are wheel spacers or lowering it more.

-3 is pretty good for a circuit car, but if the car needs more then you'll just have to weigh your options.

[IThaJokaI]

I had my tophats machined for more camber, when I could only get 2* from the camber plates on my s13. Maybe see if you could try doing that? should get you atleast 1-2*.

(this is not my car, but similar to what I had done.)

[prego]

i dont understand how wheel spacers will let me run more camber but i will eventually lower it, as for the above i run a strut bar and i dont want to molest my strut tops, i imagine if i want to compete in something later on that will be a big no no, i will lower it that 20mm i can and see how i go

[David48]

Spacers would give you more clearance to run more camber, if inner wheel clearance is your issue.

[maverickmotorsports]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

There are a myriad of combinations and compromises to get lots of angle, but the big spacer is probably the worst one.

Depends on the end goals.

The steering spacer also takes out ackerman as well as allows the rack to travel more for greater angle.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by george

Depends on the end goals.

The steering spacer also takes out ackerman as well as allows the rack to travel more for greater angle.

No offense to you or your spacers george, but it is definitely the cheapest way to go about things. I see more people with problems with tie rod length/overcentering with the spacers than anything else.

Does it work? Yes
Is it the best way to do things? In my opinion, no.

Modded knuckles are an all-around better mod if you want more angle.

[maverickmotorsports]

No offense at all.

If someone were to want zero ackerman they would need to either shorten the knuckles or move the pickup towards the rotor more(which you can only go so far with). Either way can make the car unstable at higher speeds(100mph+) and be twitchy at highway speeds due to the shortened steering arm. That's why companies like GP Sports are able to keep a long steering arm but have less ackerman.

Sometimes handling everything in the knuckle is not the best way to do it. Shortening it too much causes overcentering sooner and you might get stuck with a weird ackerman curve due to the tie rod pickup. With the spacers you can help overcentering and less ackerman while keeping the high speed stability in check.

I personally like zero ackerman because the car can stick it at high angles and just accelerate like crazy.

[Z33dori]

so basically if we just stop trying to obtains retard angle everything works out in the got.

sounds like a good plan for me

[maverickmotorsports]

hahaha sure!

I'm a firm believer that ackerman is just as important as ultimate angle.

FWIW, Kawabunga only gets like 48º of angle and his car can easily do reverse entries and hold high angle drifts.

[Matej]

What is the verdict on modded vs. aftermarket knuckles? Are welded knuckles safe for daily driving?
I am sending various parts to NZ to be tended by Mr. Sterne (Slide Effect: Extended Lower Control Arms) and he offered to drop my knuckles off at C's Garage to be welded on their fancy jig.
However, I am still debating whether to go with welded ones, or spend the extra money on aftermarket ones.

[nieko]

As long as the person welding your knuckles knows how to weld, they are perfectly safe. I dailyed mine for 2+ years.

[Silvi]

When I put back the wheels and tried slow drive at full lock and I noticed scratching sound from the tires before full lock.
So I checked where it from and I find out that the tire touching the chasis rail(Tyre size is stock one 205/55/16) so as I understand...I have to extend my FLCA to make more room at this point.
My destination is about 55-60 degrees for now, how much i have to extend? 20 or 25 mm?

BTW: I got new wheels which the tire diameter stay +- the same as the stock(225/40/18 9j+30) and I thought to use 20mm spacer, but if i extend the lca by 20 mm the wheel will be at the same position with the stock lca +20mm spacer?

[mikerbike]

Originally Posted by Matej

What is the verdict on modded vs. aftermarket knuckles? Are welded knuckles safe for daily driving?
I am sending various parts to NZ to be tended by Mr. Sterne (Slide Effect: Extended Lower Control Arms) and he offered to drop my knuckles off at C's Garage to be welded on their fancy jig.
However, I am still debating whether to go with welded ones, or spend the extra money on aftermarket ones.

Really? How much is that going to cost? More than sending them to MAX?

I also daily'd mine for just over 2 years. They're still on street cars too. Just not mine.

[Matej]

It should be cheaper.
Plus I do not want anything wild, just a wee bit more aggressive than this:
Billspeer Hyper Steering, Version 2 Testing. « C'S GARAGE

[PoorMans180SX]

Isn't it pretty ridiculously expensive to ship that stuff overseas? There are lots of people that could extend your LCA, and FutureFab makes really similar knuckles. I'm sure they could extend your LCA's at the same time. I believe he is a member on here.

Future Fab Dangle Kit S13/S14 - Ace Up Motorsports

[huffandpuff00]

These guys mod Knuckles, lCA and rack
http://m.facebook.com/pages/Abercrom...ic73.html&_rdr