pick up a few more tenths in the ka

[tre]

dude 4 teeth is insane. Do you have any idea how Deadly that is to your valves. That is probably FAR beyond my degree of retard. I'm actually pretty sure you have bent valves.

There is 18 degrees per tooth. (this is me rounding to 20 teeth instead of 19. I like round numbers)

So in theory 4 teeth = 72 degree retard (counter clockwise)

I've been told by nissan the furthest (safe) retard/advance is 12 degrees with stock cams.

And i'm curious did you guys even reshim the valve train?!?!

[gotta240]

so bigvinnie- Well, i doubt he was stealing YOUR name... since you don't deal with "pussy hondas", can you at least answer my NISSAN question??? How will retarding the timing a lot cause a ROD KNOCK? Just curious....that doesnt make sence to me...but what do i know...

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by gotta240

so bigvinnie- Well, i doubt he was stealing YOUR name... since you don't deal with "pussy hondas", can you at least answer my NISSAN question??? How will retarding the timing a lot cause a ROD KNOCK? Just curious....that doesnt make sence to me...but what do i know...

I never said retarded timing will cause rod knock. A lean mix can cause rod knock. Lean mixes and high reving, advanced timing makes detonation.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by tre

dude 4 teeth is insane. Do you have any idea how Deadly that is to your valves. That is probably FAR beyond my degree of retard. I'm actually pretty sure you have bent valves.

Dude you have never installed a hot cam set up? When the exhaust cam goes in place of the intake side it is advanced onto the sprockets by 4teeth from how it would of been set on the exhaust cam side, it's position is advanced 4 teeth to make it work on to INT...

[tre]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

Dude you have never installed a hot cam set up? When the exhaust cam goes in place of the intake side it is advanced onto the sprockets by 4teeth from how it would of been set on the exhaust cam side, it's position is advanced 4 teeth to make it work on to INT...

You know the "timing" marks would have been a better use of words than retarding 4 teeth.

And thats kind of a hack job too. At best a "guess"

Use dial indicaters on the intake bucket to find out when it opens stock. Make a mark on crank pulley where the indicater is. Put the exhaust cam in. and start retarding/advancing it, till it opens at the same point as the previous one there.

[tre]

I'm still curious to what happens in your mind when you retard the cams big vinnie.

[gotta240]

bigvinnie- can you please explain HOW a rod knock can be caused by running lean? I guess i'm an idiot, but i dont see how a fuel mixture in the upper half of a motor, can cause a bearing in the BOTTOM of the block to go bad.... I understand burning a hole in the piston, or even a piston touching a valve...but how a rod bearing?

I know over-reving, or oil starvation will cause it....but how does fuel mixture have anything at all to do with it?

just curious...thanks.

[ryan hagen]

detonation causes the earlier fire which makes the rod slam in to the crank earlier, the crank isnt in its proper position and it makes a knock, and hammers the shit out of your bearing, if it hit at the right time it just spins the crank around again and the friction/bearing operation is far less abuseive, thats my 2 cents. on rod knock from lean.

i did 248/232 on my turbo car, it works but i havent had a dyno run yet to see where im making power, has hella torque though. seems like low end torque and then drops off after 5500 or 6.

[tre]

Well we measure all the cams. And only ran into 2 intake and 3 exhaust cams out of the s14's =\

Need to get pick up friends 91 cams i guess. From what we measure you get a 1mm gain. lobe size difference.

[gotta240]

thank you ryan.... Never heard that before, but i suppose it makes sence...

thanks.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by ryan hagen

detonation causes the earlier fire which makes the rod slam in to the crank earlier, the crank isnt in its proper position and it makes a knock, and hammers the shit out of your bearing, if it hit at the right time it just spins the crank around again and the friction/bearing operation is far less abuseive, thats my 2 cents. on rod knock from lean.

i did 248/232 on my turbo car, it works but i havent had a dyno run yet to see where im making power, has hella torque though. seems like low end torque and then drops off after 5500 or 6.

Thank you for explaining this thread is giving me a headache!!!!!!!!!

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by tre

Well we measure all the cams. And only ran into 2 intake and 3 exhaust cams out of the s14's =\

There is no reason why you can't use the 98 and above frontier or altima cams either although there still not as good as the 91-93cams.... Altima cams just need a tad bit of work but they will fit......
Might make for a good power band mixing one with another. Although I've decided to save my money and get the PDM cams over the JWT cam's. For reasons only because I want an off the line low end monster.Especially with removal of the SCV's thats the way it should be.........

[tre]

I"m just going to pick up my friends 91 cams. I guess. And drop the exhaust one in for now. Anything hotter and i'd have to redue my valve train.

[kompressorlogic]

back to the detonation causing rod knock, you have to detonate a NA REALLLLLY HARD to mess it up enuf to get a rod knock... and you would definitly Hear and feel that hard of detonation.

now in a turbo car detonation can destroy engines reallly fast

[tre]

well the easiest way to get rod knock in an n/a is to drive with no oil LOL

[ScorpioMk]

So BigV, you gonna admit you were wrong about things that you said? at the very beginning of this thread? one that i thought was funny was the part about retarding the cam sprockets to 5 and 7.5, and how u said thats not possible and tre proved it with pics. Im one of tre's buddies and after hearing of this thread i had to get on and see what it was all about and its pretty funny that you try and step all over someone you dont know, and he E-Slaps you with correct information. Calling him a liar is funny to me cause ive ridden and driven with him at SEVERAL drift events, and noticed how well the revlimiter works and how his car most obviously doesnt knock. With all his mods you say his car should have blown up by now, why hasnt it? I know you'll have your things to say to me cause its my first post and whatever, but i dont own a 240 so ive never seen a reason to join this site, go ahead and bash but id like to see you admit you were wrong or give a good explaination of why trevor continues to drive his car everyday without having any problems.

Marcus

[tre]

way to make yourself look like a jackass marcus lol

[RPS1392]

Well since one of Tres friends told me about this thread, thought I would also check it out. Makin power with a ka seems to give me a migrain. Thats why the ka is coming out and the SR is going in.

[tre]

Originally Posted by RPS1392

Well since one of Tres friends told me about this thread, thought I would also check it out. Makin power with a ka seems to give me a migrain. Thats why the ka is coming out and the SR is going in.

What do you plan on doign with your ka?!?

[RPS1392]

Well its goonna have to go... along with all the other unwanted parts off that car. Car was bone stock when I bought it. Belonged to a 55 yold Grandma that I work with. Shes a little upset now that Ive tore it apart. She keeps saying "youu did WHAT to my baby!?!"

[ScorpioMk]

Originally Posted by tre

way to make yourself look like a jackass marcus lol

i dont care haha, just backing you up with more first hand evidence.

Well since one of Tres friends told me about this thread, thought I would also check it out. Makin power with a ka seems to give me a migrain. Thats why the ka is coming out and the SR is going in.

haha, seriously everytime tre talks about ka's i just tell him na is garbage and if i ever get an s13/s14 im just gonna do an sr swap and be done with it.

Marcus

[tre]

Originally Posted by RPS1392

Well its goonna have to go... along with all the other unwanted parts off that car. Car was bone stock when I bought it. Belonged to a 55 yold Grandma that I work with. Shes a little upset now that Ive tore it apart. She keeps saying "youu did WHAT to my baby!?!"

Wanna give it to me?

I'll do wonders with it

[tre]

Originally Posted by ScorpioMk

i dont care haha, just backing you up with more first hand evidence.





haha, seriously everytime tre talks about ka's i just tell him na is garbage and if i ever get an s13/s14 im just gonna do an sr swap and be done with it.

Marcus

Marcus you know its not smart money wise to do an sr swap. For power out put you can do with a KA turbo/N/A for the same price :P

[ScorpioMk]

Originally Posted by tre

Marcus you know its not smart money wise to do an sr swap. For power out put you can do with a KA turbo/N/A for the same price :P

i know, if i ever do get a 240 ill probably rig up some bs turbo mani and see how it runs, but you know how people talk about turbo NA motors and how they hate it? Besides, im just a fanboy wanna be drifter and i wont be any good until i get an sr.

Marcus

PS i got all my piping from joel for the turbo mani, just need some 1/2in steel for the flanges and i can start welding. turbo rolla.......

[tre]

Originally Posted by ScorpioMk

i know, if i ever do get a 240 ill probably rig up some bs turbo mani and see how it runs, but you know how people talk about turbo NA motors and how they hate it? Besides, im just a fanboy wanna be drifter and i wont be any good until i get an sr.

Marcus

PS i got all my piping from joel for the turbo mani, just need some 1/2in steel for the flanges and i can start welding. turbo rolla.......

i hate giving you ideas LOL

i'll have my hands on one engine thsi weekend so i can trade it off for two stes of pistons/rods/rings/bearins

[RPS1392]

Originally Posted by tre

Wanna give it to me?

I'll do wonders with it

Give? no. Next time your playing CS with Lady <msg> tell her you want to talk cars with me.

[kompressorlogic]

Ca18det!!!!

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by ScorpioMk

So BigV, you gonna admit you were wrong about things that you said? at the very beginning of this thread? one that i thought was funny was the part about retarding the cam sprockets to 5 and 7.5, and how u said thats not possible and tre proved it with pics. Im one of tre's buddies and after hearing of this thread i had to get on and see what it was all about and its pretty funny that you try and step all over someone you dont know, and he E-Slaps you with correct information. Calling him a liar is funny to me cause ive ridden and driven with him at SEVERAL drift events, and noticed how well the revlimiter works and how his car most obviously doesnt knock. With all his mods you say his car should have blown up by now, why hasnt it? I know you'll have your things to say to me cause its my first post and whatever, but i dont own a 240 so ive never seen a reason to join this site, go ahead and bash but id like to see you admit you were wrong or give a good explaination of why trevor continues to drive his car everyday without having any problems.

Marcus

Your an idiot, and a good way to get yourself banned. His methods used are that of most old datsun tuners. For many reason's I will tend to disagree in Tre's logic, but eeh it's his ride I'm not hatin'.
First reason I disagree is that he is using a stock ecu tune and has fully advanced the timing. Back in the L series days this was done all the time, but the engine itself wasn't bound to an ECU, like engines are today. Adjusting cams were used to help in this full advancement which many people took the z series sprocket and modified the cam sprocket for use on the L series, (which if you don't know L and z series are internally the same just different blocks, z series came 10years after the L, KA internalls are the exact same geometry of the Lseries and the z series, just a much more modern engine with a much more simple valve train using bucket hydraulics). The most play was 3 degrees advanced or 3 degrees retarded. Retarding the cams allowed for play to advance the distributor since the engine is allowed more time to make it's atomized mixture of A/F, also allows for the manipulation of the power band and where you want your ignition to make the power you want.
You can't do that with todays engines( well you can but ecu tuning is involved), and it doesn't have the same effect that it had on old school carburated L series. Even the JWT cam sprockets are widely used by Dual Mikuni carburated GT3 class guys, and they have much more room to tune cams and aren't bound by the stock ecu.
Being bound to an ecu that is clocked at 20BTDC is the first problem, and only advancing the timing will heat the charge sooner, ignition timing no matter what was set for 20BTDC. Second reason is that Tre's engine is bound to a knock sensor and using the SAFC to run lean really isn't helping any, especially since advanced timing also runs a greater risk of extremely hot plugs. This will infact make the tune counter productive, no matter how far the ignition timing is advanced, the ignition timing will want to retard itself anyways, I personally see it more of a way of decreasing optimal power since ignition timing isn't advancing with a lean mix. Retarding cams to far can also disturb the stock idle, especially since it deals with other devices such as the EGR, and even the IACV.
I can understand if Tre was to stoich his mix abit, but then again Tre doesn't even know his A/F ratio, since it appears that he has said that he hasn't used a wide band, (so how far lean is he, I don't know?)
IMO any professional has told me that it isn't wise to tune the SAFC unless on the dyno, and strapped with wide band in order to calibrate properlly.I'm mostly against Tre's proposal to install an SAFC and tune to -11%, you just don't say that kind of stuff on these boards. Some people take the information they are given literally (especially our younger group of people learning), and are trying to find ways and approaches to do as little research as possible. Most of my attack, was made merly based that the majority of this educated and (also many uneducated) forum would not have taken the approach correctly that Tre basically intended as a good idea for increasing 1/4mile time.
Secondly I am against tre's approach because anything that is beyond 3 degrees advanced or retarded on the distributor doesn't [pass with the smog tech. Retarding the cams will also take the car out of a smoggable scope. When I was meaning if Tre's car was streetable, I really ment is it LEGAL for smog. I live in one of a few states that can't turbo charge, and am stuck with N/A tuning. ( I hate paying a smog tech like $300 for smog, and Tre's set up doesn't do anything for me). Although some may be able to use his information to there advantage, it doesn't work for most people.
It really comes down to if Tre said "hey here is my setup, but it also needs ALOT of tuning still", I would of accepted that alot more than an ending statement that said..........

Originally Posted by tre

Remember this is my Drift Bitch. I do drags for shits n giggles lol

Tre needs to remember that he is in a forum full of thousands of people that could possibly have a better set up than him, and that are probably agreeing that the method in which he tuned his car wasn't the best, especially when there is a statement with the SUPER EGO involved.

Am I going to appoligize...NO
Am I wrong....NO
Will I continue to seek the truth in these forums....YES

[tre]

Originally Posted by RPS1392

Give? no. Next time your playing CS with Lady <msg> tell her you want to talk cars with me.

how the hell did you know i play cs? LOL

hmm "Lady <msg>" what servers?!

[tre]

Bigvinnie just remember i'm in seattle. We do dont have smog stuff here... yet -.-

Anyways I posted up this is what I use then I think i left the lines "this may not work for you" Dunno exactly.

My tuning is crude yes. But its all I have atm. I got a smoking deal on the SAFC-2 so i'm not complaining.

I'd rather go full stand alone vs a daughter board. Since i'd have to spend more money to get it. Learn to tune it. Thats a lot of time and money(well not that much money lol). If i gets the STS system. My dad has built a few race cars on it so he knows how to tune it.

I didn't mean to put my drift bitch not drag car as an ego statement. I was just saying I mainly only do drift events vs drag/auto(scca auto-x guys are weird)/road.

But yes. my set up needs far more tuning(better engine management). This is a CRUDE easy way to tune. And does not work with everyone. But my previous engine did last till 235k miles.

And in hotter areas i'm sure my set up could plossible cause detonation. But remember i live in seattle. Its much more mild here