SR Owners... More HP Easy Mod... Catch Can Setup

[change]

Originally Posted by 4x4le

Yup. And final product is out..



Hey Luke. Bro, I still need the graphic emailed or pm'd to me so I can get some decals printed btw. I didnt get my car in the mag last event anyways because I hit the wall before the photoshoot....... Cars almost back together so send me the graphic design!!!!


btw, still loving the valve cover to death! People think im a baller or something and it creates more conversation than anything else on my car.

what kinda fitting did you use for where the line coming off the side of the valve cover goes back into the oil drain? did you use a hose clamp style one?

[rotas13]

^^^^ I have the same question!!!!

[sidedrifts13]

ima definately look into doing this

[slider2828]

This setup was almost designed a year ago LOL! Boy things come back...

Its AN Push Lock Fittings.... and it actually does not drain back to the oil drain. It goes from side breather to catch to turbo. This is used to reduce crank pressure, create as much negative pressure in the valve cover, and drain back oil from the crank to the case via built in oil drainage gallies from the head (stock lol).....

Originally Posted by 4x4le

Yup. And final product is out..



Hey Luke. Bro, I still need the graphic emailed or pm'd to me so I can get some decals printed btw. I didnt get my car in the mag last event anyways because I hit the wall before the photoshoot....... Cars almost back together so send me the graphic design!!!!


btw, still loving the valve cover to death! People think im a baller or something and it creates more conversation than anything else on my car.

Hey how is the system working for you? Did no oil in the catch right? No loss of fluids either? Clean intake?

[change]

Originally Posted by slider2828

and it actually does not drain back to the oil drain. It goes from side breather to catch to turbo.

the hose that comes out where the T used to be. that goes back to the oil drain. that is what im talking about, what fitting is used in that exact spot. i can see the rest and im not an idiot.


and i know what the system does, no need to explain that over and over again like you have been doing.

[rotas13]

^^^^ditto^^^^^^^

im pretty sure its just a hose clamp style. it would be hard to weld a fitting down there to the oil drain. But I could be wrong

[4x4le]

Originally Posted by s14r20det

what kinda fitting did you use for where the line coming off the side of the valve cover goes back into the oil drain? did you use a hose clamp style one?

Off the side of the valve cover is a -10an push lock style. That gets its air from the lower block. the valve cover then is whats used as the primary catch can and the valve cover is what enables drain back. The vaccume that is placed on the system comes from your turbo inlet pipe. I chose to weld the bung close to the turbo away from the maf. A -8an line runs from there to a catch can, and from the catch can to a -8an push lock fitting on the valve cover.

Sure you can clamp hoses on, but you really cant do that with braided lines and you should be using braded lines to get the most out of this setup due to them not closing up under vacuum.

Originally Posted by slider2828

Hey how is the system working for you? Did no oil in the catch right? No loss of fluids either? Clean intake?

It works great! I may get the smallest amout of oil in my can, nothing major at all and I have not had to empty the can at all since installing the new valve cover. Im talking the smallest amount is in the can and that may very well have been in there from before the install of the new cover.

Yes I do have a can though. Thinking about taking it out of the system however.....

[codyace]

Not the bes picture, but it was the first I found

I've ran mine like this now for 3 years, without issue or qualm. No oil sprayed anywhere, none in the catch can. I did build her a little tight, but that shouldn't make any difference. I think the biggest 'hindrence' to setups using the intake as the vacuum source (such as my own) is that it will undoubtedly suck oil up out of that rear port. I added the OE oil/air seperator and haven't had an issue since.

I skimmed much of this thread, but was really curious as to how sourcing from an unbaffled (unless I missed the part where the added fittings are baffled) part was going to make a worthwhile difference. I would love to just pull off the setup and dump it into the downpipe, but my stuff doesnt' leak/works/isn't an issue...and I'm all about not touching what works.

[slider2828]

Basically oil will get pulled from the crank case or flung from the crank case on heavy altitude change tracks. I run Laguna and another local track called Thunder where I am going over a really tall hill at top of 3rd.... This vertical G can really slosh the oil in your crank case up to the whole where vac is normally evacuated. With any negative pressure this will suck the oil past the T into a catch can and fill it up in about 2-3 laps.

If you look at the design, it goes from crank case to the valve cover. This design right here is inherent to the valve cover in 2 ways:

The input is 1: Lower than where the oil is being sucks out. 2: Where we placed the top fitting that goes to a catch can has a "built in" oil separator from factor. You just have to look at the valve cover design itself. We drilled holes into this separator to allow more suction from our turbo's to create neg pressure in the head and ultimately in the crank case as everything needs to be sealed.

3: The head has built in drainage for oil. This is normal as the head has gallies to drain oil back into the oil pan from the squirters to lube the cams, so hence its closing the system. No oil should ever get into the can because it flows through these gallies back to the pan....

Hope this answers all questions....

[4x4le]

Im jealous of your local tracks.... still dont know if I could deal with cali though lol

[slider2828]

Seriously F..... cali... Have to do smog now.... so not fun.... But yeah on some of the altitude changes, the front end almost comes off the ground.....

Just gotta make sure you point before lift off lol.....

[4x4le]

And tagging rumble strips at the apex's can slosh the oil around as well. I feel that many of the people that say that they have ran their setups for X years with no problems more than likely do not track their cars as much as the people that find this to be such a valuable investment. Im not saying thats a bad thing, and if you feel no need in upgrading then by all means spend your money on something you actually can benefit from. With the majority of my miles being on the track, usually over 4k rpms while in boost quite often, my needs are quite different than someone that mostly just drives their car with occasional track time.

And slider, what do you have to do at emissions time? I think if I were to live in cali I would keep a stock motor/intake/exhaust in the garage and swap it out for a few days once a year.

You also bring up a good point about liftoff...... If I were to be into road racing instead of drifting and had a very fast car I would go so broke.... Aero that actually works is $$$$, especially stuff for causing front down force.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by slider2828

Basically oil will get pulled from the crank case or flung from the crank case on heavy altitude change tracks. I run Laguna and another local track called Thunder where I am going over a really tall hill at top of 3rd.... This vertical G can really slosh the oil in your crank case up to the whole where vac is normally evacuated. With any negative pressure this will suck the oil past the T into a catch can and fill it up in about 2-3 laps.

If you look at the design, it goes from crank case to the valve cover. This design right here is inherent to the valve cover in 2 ways:

The input is 1: Lower than where the oil is being sucks out. 2: Where we placed the top fitting that goes to a catch can has a "built in" oil separator from factor. You just have to look at the valve cover design itself. We drilled holes into this separator to allow more suction from our turbo's to create neg pressure in the head and ultimately in the crank case as everything needs to be sealed.

3: The head has built in drainage for oil. This is normal as the head has gallies to drain oil back into the oil pan from the squirters to lube the cams, so hence its closing the system. No oil should ever get into the can because it flows through these gallies back to the pan....

Hope this answers all questions....

I run Watkins Glen, and Limerock...both with HUGGGGE changes as well. Pocono doesnt' have the huge changes, nor does NJMP, however they have some severe banking...I understand the aspect of oil coming up, but I can't see how it works superior to how I have my setup (not trying to be a dickhead, just trying to learn more, as I'll change in a heartbeat if I can see a reasonable advantage).

Again, that rear port on the block goes to an OEM seperator, which goes the valvecover T, which goes to the catch can, which goes to my intake pipe. On your setup, I see the rear port, dumping into the valve cover, and then a baffled hole on the back half (under that little tray inside the valve cover) going to the catch can...so where yours dumps into the V/C, and then drains back through those holes near the lifters (and the front/rear of the engine), I just stop any oil sucking up at the rear of the motor, with the OE baffled seperator.

I guess what I'm getting at, is welding the fittings any better than using the OE baffled seperator...as our setups are similar aside from that.

Originally Posted by 4x4le

And tagging rumble strips at the apex's can slosh the oil around as well.

I run a IJ Crank scraper (teflon) and baffle as well for issues like this in the actual crank case as well.... Certainly it shakes the car, but your suspension absorbs most of the impact.

In regard to RPM and boost, I totally relate. I've got a 4.6 Final Drive, and a 2871r...I'm always in boost.


FWIW We've run FWD cars for years with catch can setups like mine, without issue. I think the biggest advantage is the OE seperator (which FWD has as well)

Originally Posted by 4x4le

I also cant believe all of these supposed s13 sr owners act oblovious to the well known sr crank case ventelation issues these motors are plagued with. If they havent experienced the ventelation issues first hand they either dont have much of a build, or they are posers that dont give their car a good work out.

PS: 11 or 12 track days, over 15,000 miles of hell on street, 400 hp...no issues. Now on my original motor I did get a little, but that's because the poor motor was tired.

Originally Posted by 4x4le

Oh, and I too have a freshly fully built sr that I track/drift with the gt2871R .86 and I too get blow by. My engine was built by a very well known engine builder as well.

I've built over 10 SR's at this point (turbo, n/a, FWD and RWD) and never have issues with cars. As before, I do build my cars fairly tight, but they have no oil consumption issues, have no blow buy, and all still run. Not saying your guy isn't capable, but it seems like something else may be an issue.

[4x4le]

Originally Posted by codyace

I understand the aspect of oil coming up, but I can't see how it works superior to how I have my setup (not trying to be a dickhead, just trying to learn more, as I'll change in a heartbeat if I can see a reasonable advantage).
..........................
I guess what I'm getting at, is welding the fittings any better than using the OE baffled seperator

If your not having issues, then there is honestly no reason to change what your doing. If however your in boost long enough to be pulling enough vac long enough to suck enough oil into your separator to fill it you will have a problem. Also if you dont close your throttle long enough to allow the separator to drain back you will have a problem then too.

Originally Posted by codyace

I've got a 4.6 Final Drive, and a 2871r...I'm always in boost.

That sounds dandy! What does the 4.6 gear set come out of???

Originally Posted by codyace

PS: 11 or 12 track days, over 15,000 miles of hell on street, 400 hp...no issues. Now on my original motor I did get a little, but that's because the poor motor was tired.

I wasnt calling you or anyone out on the comment, but it is a general statement I hear allot, mostly by people that just street drive their cars. I also know several sr owners that fill up their cans.

Originally Posted by codyace

I've built over 10 SR's at this point (turbo, n/a, FWD and RWD) and never have issues with cars. As before, I do build my cars fairly tight, but they have no oil consumption issues, have no blow buy, and all still run. Not saying your guy isn't capable, but it seems like something else may be an issue.

I know for a fact that there is no way this engine has anything wrong with it. I am in business with the builder, he has never built a bad engine, and honestly everything he touches turns to gold. This engine has been used and abused and compression and leakdown has always stayed golden for the few years it has been alive.

Just keep in mind, the old style s13 valve covers with separators on the rear line was discontinued in favor of the s14/15 valve cover design for a reason. People started hacking the 13 and 14 covers up and welding them together for a reason. And this is just a cheaper easier way to end up with the same thing. It is smarter, more efficient and more fool proof/fail safe than the factory design.
No one is trying to bully anyone into getting this mod done, and if you dont have the issue with filling up a can (with your setup routed back to intake) then there is no real reason to do this.

An easy way to not fill up a can is to pollute with a breather filter instead of routing back to intake, however then you are missing out on power, your car is running off un metered air any time your in vacuum, and your not getting rid of as much crank crase pressure as you can be. If your still spitting oil with a breather filter then you do have a engine problem because there shouldnt be enough crank case pressure to cause oil spatter out of the system and there is no vacuum source to pull it out.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by 4x4le

If your not having issues, then there is honestly no reason to change what your doing. If however your in boost long enough to be pulling enough vac long enough to suck enough oil into your separator to fill it you will have a problem. Also if you dont close your throttle long enough to allow the separator to drain back you will have a problem then too.

Maybe we've lucked out then hehe. At the Glen I can see 145-150 mph, and at Pocono near the same, so I'm certainly in the hammer for a while. I couldn't imagine cranking the boost all the way haha, i'm tooooo chickenshit haha.

Originally Posted by 4x4le

That sounds dandy! What does the 4.6 gear set come out of???

Sit down for this one...you'll never imagine it...but out of an Xterra Front Pumpkin hehe. The SE models came with 4.6 Final Drives, as well as 4.9!!! Simple bolt (well press too) in affair.

It's sorta like S2000 using CRV gearsets haha.

Originally Posted by 4x4le

No one is trying to bully anyone into getting this mod done, and if you dont have the issue with filling up a can (with your setup routed back to intake) then there is no real reason to do this.

Oh I know...I'm just always looking for ways to upgrade parts on my car If there is a better way, and I can easily change it, I'm all about it...but at the same time I don't like changing parts to change them

Originally Posted by 4x4le

An easy way to not fill up a can is to pollute with a breather filter instead of routing back to intake, however then you are missing out on power, your car is running off un metered air any time your in vacuum, and your not getting rid of as much crank crase pressure as you can be. If your still spitting oil with a breather filter then you do have a engine problem because there shouldnt be enough crank case pressure to cause oil spatter out of the system and there is no vacuum source to pull it out.

I hear ya there brother! I never run open elements.

[slider2828]

Hey you guys hit it right on the nose. In the stock setup there are actually 2 separators. The black can which is the separator, but ALSO in 1 of the pipes between the black can and the black box, there is a restrictor in the pipe. THere is a picture of it somewhere in this thread, but I think this was just a band-aid by nissan. Its actually quite sad they did it this way.

Anyways this is only if you need to eliminate the entire stock setup and do it properly, but this setup also corrects metered and unmetered air and increase negative pressure by completely closing off the system. Some people eliminate the boxes cause they are in the way of equal length manifolds which humps over a lot and the black canister is in the way.

In terms of smog, SR's are straight illegal here.... So as we speak I need to get another smog... sigh.... money down the drain...

[4x4le]

Hell, I forgot about the restrictor piece, Right there is where this system is better because it can flow more smoothly than the stock setup.

[slider2828]

That black thing doesn't work for shit... its the restrictor i the pipe that really blocks stuff out... And with that restrictor and the separator, there isn't much vacuum going to the crank case.... Its been thought up a lot.... hahaha a lot of sleepless nights for me thinking about this.

[4x4le]

A good expirement to perform.......

Lets get a vac/boost gauge and hook it to the lower tube going to the block. We need someone with a stockish setup and someone with our setup.

[slider2828]

Yeah totally... But condition of the block and turbo setup would make a HUGE difference.... Well codyace and your setup seems to be in the best condition.... But how can you measure? You mean T off between the black canister and the crankcase on the back vs. just a vac tube behind us....

But the main thing is this is on boost... LOL its hard to have a very very good comparison.... But great idea.

[NMs14.5kouki]

Originally Posted by codyace

Sit down for this one...you'll never imagine it...but out of an Xterra Front Pumpkin hehe. The SE models came with 4.6 Final Drives, as well as 4.9!!! Simple bolt (well press too) in affair.

It's sorta like S2000 using CRV gearsets haha.

so can someone explain to me what the 4.6 final drive actually does? i dont understand gear ratios at all at this point. lol it would be for a drifting aspect, and some road racing.

[slider2828]

4.6 the higher the number the closer the overall gear ratio, the faster the acceleration. But you also really kill your top speed....

[NMs14.5kouki]

alright cool thanks man. and does anyone have pics of where to drill the holes in the baffling for this?

[slider2828]

Of course I do... If you read any part of this thread you would know......

[NMs14.5kouki]

i actually did read it a couple of times to fully understand it. i know its just right past the E on the top, and i know the pattern that was talked about i just wanted to see the actual pics to get a better idea before i start drilling the valve cover.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by slider2828

Yeah totally... But condition of the block and turbo setup would make a HUGE difference.... Well codyace and your setup seems to be in the best condition.... But how can you measure? You mean T off between the black canister and the crankcase on the back vs. just a vac tube behind us....

But the main thing is this is on boost... LOL its hard to have a very very good comparison.... But great idea.

Agreed, but in order to even begin T-ing into that pipe is going to be a nitemare, considering the OE tube length allows for about 1/2 inch between the black catch can, and the fitting out of the block...would require some certain modification and welding to get a nice T in there...and as much as I'd love to help, I don't wanna take it all apart hahaa.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by NMs14.5kouki

so can someone explain to me what the 4.6 final drive actually does? i dont understand gear ratios at all at this point. lol it would be for a drifting aspect, and some road racing.

The main reason I went with a 4.6 final drive (also remember there is a 4.4 in JDM skyline/180sx diffs) is due to my track driving. I found myself in many places at a 'stalemate' between being too low in a gear (2000-2500 rpm) or being way to high in the lower gear (tirespin city)

When I put the 4.6 in the car, I can leave it in the higher gear, and use the mechanical advantage of the gearset to pull me through.

Originally Posted by slider2828

4.6 the higher the number the closer the overall gear ratio, the faster the acceleration. But you also really kill your top speed....

Top speed killing is relative to me. The car will do 130 at the top of 4th gear, which really sets it up almost perfect for road course and drag racing. I know 5th puts a heavier mechanical load on the motor, but I'm only goign another 20 mph in that gear on 2 tracks I visit.

I love the gears because you can't beat the 2-3rd gear of the car when ripping around....man does it it rip!

[blu808]

Can a Mod close this thread? It is getting filled up with shit. We will open a new one with pics, and a complete description to eliminate the confusion.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by blu808

Can a Mod close this thread? It is getting filled up with shit. We will open a new one with pics, and a complete description to eliminate the confusion.

Just get one to prune it

PS: Always enjoy reading your fab pics/posts, even before 'fab forum' Awesome stuff!

[blu808]

thanks Cody. Please PM Andrew Bohan for the stickers.