LS1 powered S14 with motorplates and modded GTO pan

[slow40sx]

Originally Posted by picho

wow sounds like fun but wen you cut the oil pan tha short wont it starve some of the bottom end mechanisms

i was wondering the same

[iRONDONkey]

nice work man!

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by picho

wow sounds like fun but wen you cut the oil pan tha short wont it starve some of the bottom end mechanisms

The GTO pan that I'm using is 1.25" deeper than all of the LS corvette pans, and I don't think that I will have to take out more than 1.00". So basically, I'd still be a quarter inch deeper than the C5 and C6 pans, after hacking an inch off the bottom.

If I stay wet sump, I'll be using an accusump, a full length windage tray, and as much of the stock steel baffling as I can, and maybe even a rotating pick-up. That's a lot of insurance

You guys are right, though, general concensus is that modifying a wet sump oil pan is playing with fire.

[Johny5]

which windage tray are you gonna opt for? i've heard camaro but i'm not sure which year or chassis (if there are differences?)?

[IIIXziuR]

Dru u rock my socks off

[SicBastard]

Thank you...

I came to rock.

Johny5, the camaro windage tray is pretty much the only one you don't want! It only covers the back 3/4 because the front of the pan is so shallow. Both the corvette and gto pans use a completely full length tray, so either is great. With a little trimming I'm sure they're interchangeable.

Even though it's so cold I can barely touch metal, I took back my new 17 gallon, vertical craftsma air compressor last weekend and upgraded. It just couldn't power my cut-off wheel for more tan a few minutes without slowing down. I also may have a line on a good deal for a plasma cutter. Wouldn't that be nice!?

[Sir]

craftsman doesn't have the CFM needed to power most tools for very long, especially tiny 17gal.
60gal dual stage with 25+ CFM @90psi would be best IMHO

[Johny5]

thanks for the heads up, previously a camaro windage tray had been recommended to me so scratch that idea haha. do you have anymore progress shots you wouldn't mind sharing?

[SicBastard]

I just got off the phone with Curtis at Ohlins USA. He said that my coil overs should be done next week. He also looked up the spring rates that currenly come with their coil overs for s14: 8F 6R. I'll update more when I have more info...

[DriftinAndy]

I cant wait to see the finished product!!

[SicBastard]

I got a little pm today re the ohlins:...What I'm wondering just how much do they charge as I was looking into buying a used set and how long is the turnaround time? Please let me know...The short answer is 4 months and $300 if its just a simple rebuild.The long answer is...I just got off the phone with Tony Martin at Ohlins. Turns out my front struts are in pretty bad shape, but still rebuildable. So they are probably going to sell me a new set for the front at a good discount (I think this may be because they didn't bother to fully disassemble them before ordering the parts 3 to 4 mo ago, and they don,t want to ask me to wait another 3 mo). The rears required less work and the rebuild for them both should come in around $75 per corner (that includes new seals and adj. knob repair). I shipped them off to NC on Nov 10th. They didn't get the parts they needed till the end of January. Shouldn't be much longer now. There are two guys that I know of who work on these there, and they are quite often traveling, doing trackside support. Hopefully in the future that will make the waitng worth it.

[SicBastard]

ps I'm running 17x10.5 +27 wheels in the rear with falken 615 275/40/17s I just did a little roll and pull this last wekendand there is absolutely no excuse for any one claiming to be a performance enthusiast to be running anything more narrow than 275/40/17 or 285/35/18 in the rear.NO EXCUSE!!! I still could go another 10+ mm out-board easy, and I'll measue inboard clearance again when the ohlins show up.

[landins13]

in one word....beautiful.

[IIIXziuR]

Dru, sorry I couldn't make it down this weekend bro!
Got my car running good so hopefully within the next few weeks I can stop by and take a look at this monster

...perhaps even help with some easy stuff hahaha.
Sick build once again man!

[codyace]

Neat build!

Only thing I hafta ask however is how closely involved with TTP you are? They were/are known to make some big power cars, but I personally know two guys to have engines built there, make excellent power, and then self combust. When tearing them apart, it was as if they put the engine together with air guns, and by hand only. Not to mention the countless suspension pieces that weren't hooked up properly, nor tight. Mising bolts on the accessory brackets, ground wires not hooked up etce tc....


On a side note, TTP does have some pretty nice cams available.

Originally Posted by McRussellPants

but I do know if you don't make long tube/equallengths for the LSx it sounds like total 1950 SBC dick.

with good headers and a superlight clutch/flywheel they sound cherry.

At least by ditching the conventional motor mounts you'll have more room for neat headers.

The right exhaust setup can sound great with shorties....but then again nothign will sound as good as a SBF/Mod Motor hehe.

[SicBastard]

how closely involved with TTP you are?I worked there for a few months this past summer right after I moved here from CA. They have a great rep over on LS1tech.com and were close by so I just drove over unannounced. Told'em what I could do, and I've considered everyone over there a friend, and top notch at what they do ever since. Regarding things coming back: the only stuff that came back the entire time I was there was stuff from other shops. One guy assembles all of the engines there and he is a certified aeronautic mechanic, he hand assembles everything with an assortment of retaded expensive snapon digital torque wrenches. The machine shop they use builds LeManns engines. The suspension guy there is ACE certified in all kinds of stuff and before he worked there he prepped hi dollar race porsches. And the last time I was there a few weeks ago Matt had just got done finding more than 30 hp on a bolt-ons camaro with nothing other than his laptop. The only thing I can say negative about the TTP is that you might have to wait a while for your shit to get done because they are that busy. Performance engines are generally bought by yahoos. If an engine lasted awhile, and made big power then self destructed, it was probably the yahoo and not the builder. If I'm wrong, and there was proof, I would be blown away if Matt (the owner) hadn't made good.

[SicBastard]

I forgot to mention that the main editor of the only magazine dedicated to the LS1 (gm high-tech performance) regularly brings in his project/personal car for many of their tech articles and parts/dyno shoot outs to TTP. I've personally worked on Rick's camaro there. If anyone's endorcement carries some weight I'd think it be his.

[blueshark123]

ive been to ttp performance before with my boy i knew the guy who has that crazy ass caddilac i remember we used to meet up on rt.3 he was suppose to race some evo one day but he chickened out or something

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by blueshark123

ive been to ttp performance before with my boy i knew the guy who has that crazy ass caddilac i remember we used to meet up on rt.3 he was suppose to race some evo one day but he chickened out or something

I think that you're probably talking about Bruce(?) and his spare-no-expense, supercharged CTS-V. That thing defines wicked and sounds like no cadillac should!

[Slicedbreadno2]

Very nice build.

[300hp owen]

you mean 17x10.5 PLUS 27 offset right?

oh yeah a 285/30R18 is a great tire, common size and short!
congrats on the ohlins rebuild/replacement and the project moving along.
cant wait to see the finished product.

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by 300hp owen

you mean 17x10.5 PLUS 27 offset right?

oh yeah a 285/30R18 is a great tire, common size and short!
congrats on the ohlins rebuild/replacement and the project moving along.
cant wait to see the finished product.

Doh, thanx! You're right. Correction made. Back spacing on the 17x10.5s is between 6.81" and 7" depending on who you ask (I havn't measured it myself).

Formula for calculating backspace is

Backspace = (outer rim width/2) + 0.5" + (offset/25.4)

the 0.5" approximately accounts for bead surface thickness,
and dividing by 25.4 converts mm to in

Some day when I'm a baller I'm going to go with 18s just for the extra caliper clearance up front. But right now for the same width tire you get to pay twice the price in an 18 compared to a 17. For example my falken 615s are only $166 for the 275/40/17s, but are $245 for the 295/40/18s

[sac]

dude!! i started a ls1 swap s14 back 5 years ago.. got about where you are.. (not fully to the extent your going) and due to not having another car to drive (sold it to fund the project) i had to let it all go..
finish this thing no matter what!! you will regret it if ya dont.

[SicBastard]

sac, I was actually really concerned about that b4 I started the project. To ensure that it wouldn't, I waited to start until I had a 2nd RELIABLE car as a DD, and also a designated place to work on it. I've also set small time-line goals for myself. B4 I left CA I wanted the engine and trans mounted. B4 I leave NJ for NY I want to have the seat mounts and radiator mounts complete. Then probably the headers, cage, and fuel system B4 next fall. Rushing I takes all of the fun out of it, and the quality will suffer. Right now when I need a break from studying, I really look forward to going out in the garage. That's probably because I don't "have to". It's also been interesting to me how much attention this thing has brought from my family. You're not very likely to get a 100 percent support from anyone. They'll tell you that you don't have the time, money, space, talent... whatever. And don,t get me wrong, I'm lucky enough to come from a family of enthsiasts! But I believe that we all set our own priorities, and believe me I've had to seriously adjust mine just to get the project this far. Something else that I did that has worked out great for me is that right from the start, I've called this thing my "hot rod", and not my "car", everyone knows you're never "done" with a hot rod! Also from the beginning when people ask me how long till it's on the road I've casually responded, "I think that it would be great if I could have it on the road in under three years." If you start missing dead lines that you've announced, you can count on loosing the minimal if any support that you've had. I do plan to finish no matter what. The time will come, the money wll come, and the skills are slowly progressing. If you're planning on doing a project similar to this I suggest you do just that and plan! & under no circumstances take this on without: a DD, a place to work, time, and money. The only exception is if you have a GREAT shop that is willing to do all the work, and a huge wad of cash t pay for the fabrication and assembly at $100/hr. I think that if everyone waited to start their projects untill all these things come together there would be a lot less heart ache out there.Sac, I feel your pain brother. Condolences on your loss.-DRU-

[IIIXziuR]

Damn that was very eye watering an emotional but at the same time very motivational.
Keep on truckin' brotha, keep on truckin'
You will always be the coolest

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by IIIXziuR

Damn that was very eye watering an emotional but at the same time very motivational.
Keep on truckin' brotha, keep on truckin'
You will always be the coolest

You know, she really is my baby. I'd be crushed if I ended up in sac's shoes. Crushed I'm telling you! Seeing as she is my baby, I think she needs a name. I always loved the Rob Zombie song, "Dragula" and thought that might be a good name. But then again I've also been dying to recover the fabric inserts on the doors with long, fake, black, gorilla fur, and then just call her, "The Gorilla". With 550 rwhp and monstrous cam lope, I think she can pull it off!? Ideas? Suggestions?

[SicBastard]

So I finally scored one of these on ebay the other week.
They were originally spec'd out by lingenfelter when they built the spec LS1 motors for the ASA race series.





I think that it's the third one that I've bid on over the last three years. But this one I won! It is a single stage scavenge only pump that was built by razor. Razor is a little unique because their pumps internal gears have fewer teath and therefore (supposedly) flow more oil for a given section length. But another neat feature is that they make crazy deep section lengths. This single stage is a whopping 1.825". Trust me that's big in the world of dry sump pumps. I wrote to razor about a rebuild on the pump and about the possiblilty of adding a few stages to it to increase the crankcase vacuum.

This was their reply:

Dru,
The price to convert your single stage pump to a two stage scavenge pump is $350. The price for a three stage is $479.
This is figuring new shafts, studs, fittings, pumps bodies, and gears for the new sections.
Razor

At first I thought that I would just go nuts and add two more monster 1.825" scavenge stages. At that point I would probably be pulling close to a full 15 psi of vacuum. With that much sucking going on bad things can start to happen to wrist pins (because there isn't any oil suspended in the crankcase air), so then you have to add piston oil squirters. It just kind of snow balls. Luckily I don't have to worry about engine mounts being in the way. But I do have to worry about the lines hitting the starter If I add too many stages.

I'm going to convert my gto oil pan to be more shallow and add a pick up or two or three. Then I'm probably going to mount a big fat oil tank in the trunk. So the beautiful, all steel, moroso LS1 dry sump pan that came with my kit is for sale here on ebay. If you're going to modify an LS1 oil pan, this is the one to have. Trust me, you don't want to be welding on cast Aluminum!


http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29
296-2357-0?uid=85924721&site=0&ver=LCA080805&item=130217297 961&lk=URL

In other news I'm getting ready to move for the 4th time in 3 months come June, and I've been futzing with installing such mundane things as working locks and windows, just in case the car has to sit in storage for any length of time this summer.

That's all...

Peace and Tire Smoke.

[IIIXziuR]

Oh man. Good to see your still wrenching around.
I miss ya big guy!

I hope you can continue working on this project even when you move.

[SicBastard]

So I got the Razor pump mounted, just so I could check the clearance that I'd be left with if I converted it to a 3 stage. I'll clean up the motor plate/mount later on a mill. There should be zero issue with the starter clearance as I mistakenly feared before.

you can see the passenger side mid-plate (sandwiched between the block and bellhousing) pretty well in these next two:


I finally got around to trying to space out the 05 GTO driver side ex manifold to see if it would clear the steering knuckle/universal joint. Almost... There is a lot of grinding that could be done on the inside of the manifold though, so it still may be possible for anyone looking for a stock alternative. The passenger side will not work from the GTO because it sticks out too far laterally and hits the "frame".
Just for fun before I give them back to TTP (thanx for the loan)!
Twin Turbo anyone?

[SicBastard]

I found these pics comparing the stock KA 5-speed to the t56 6-speed that's bolted up to the LS1 over on nico forum, as posted by "574-240sx"

You can also see from the pics why you end up having to bash the hell out of your trans tunnel to slide the t56 back up in there.

The stock one is LONGER!!! I never thought it about, but this is why the Hinson kit comes with a steeda long reach shifter, because with their kit the shifter ends up sitting FORWARD of the stock position.
Not to toot my own horn, but now I feel even more special