328WHP - 9 PSI - RB25DET, That's right! 9 PSI !!!

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

the only way to prove its false [...]

Well i would be willing to stick it to a RB25, but this is called testing, and it has a price. I am not working for free, and i highly doubt they are willing to ship a turbo overseas and back for testing, esp. to some one who has been criticizing them.

BTW if you had not seen it yet, the whole point of my posts here is "they should have tested their turbo themselves before creating this thread."

Although i am not sure it would have had such a spectacular title.

"Reliable modified oem turbo, 280 WHP at 11 psi of boost, room for 18psi" may not sound as much appealing as "328WHP at 9psi of boost". I know, i fail at marketing. I am an engineer, the kind of people who know their stuff but fail at selling it.


Now you want to appear as a man of science, so remember how it works: when someone claims something he has to prove it is right. Not the other way around.

[ch1873857]

croustibat has a CA18 anyway.. haha

this thread went to shit quick..

[2xmuchxsupreme]

I Fully agree with croustibat, If your going to claim some outrageous claim be ready to back that shit up... This is the Internet.. It honestly looks shady, especially when he can't even defend himself. Please stop with the smoke and mirrors bs.

[Jesse@PureTurbos]

I just talked to the customer on the phone. He's in Depew, NY.

He confirmed:
-stock motor
-stock injectors
-tuned with a safc 2

I told him to get on zilvia and share some details about his car. Hopefully he will follow through.

He sent us some pics:













Thanks guys

[Myke]

Well I guess I have become Internet famous, yes my car is stock, injectors are stock side feeds, if someone has a ?, feel free to ask, I blew my stock rb turbo up, a buddy sent me to pure turbos , I spoke with Charles for about an hr told him I wanted a stock turbo cause I don't have nothing else done to my car, told him I was planning on getting bigger injectors later on, received my turbo a few weeks later, called them every 5 seconds once I got it to basically walk me thru putting it on , it sat in my garage for 2 months, took it to the tuner last week, he ripped it and it based at 302 hp blowing smoke and running like poop, tuned the safc2 and thats it, he wouldn't touch the boost or anthing else until I get bigger injectors. Quick run down :
90 s13
Rb25det series 2
Q45 maf
Z32 fuel filter
Walboro 255 pump
This is we're it gets tricky, if anyone knows me on here u kno the car, it is not a neo motor , apperently 3 pages later and u think my cars fake.. If everyone is griping about how much my car makes with just a fuel change, I really don't kno what to say, I bought a turbo from a company that a new nothing about and they've been helpful ever since. I call all the time over something dumb because ur right this power is crazy to believe cause the car dosent even right half the time lmao!!! But they walk me thru and take the time a company should take to make sure money was spent wisly by a new customer, so thanks to pure turbos for building me a sick ass turbo that apperently is now famous

[Croustibat]

Again i am not telling pure turbo did a bad job at providing the turbo, i am telling they did a poor job at basing their advertisement on fantasy numbers.


I am saying the power figures on that dyno sheet are not possible with the mods this engine has, and so will anyone who know these engines.
This would not be possible with a 280HP neo, and certainly not with a 250HP S1 or S2. This is the stock power when new, not when they have been used for 20 years.

That dyno says your engine has a power output 100HP higher than it did 20 years ago.
And it cant happen.

That is not due to the turbo provided, NO turbo will ever give a 100 more HP at 9 psi on a stock RB25. Not with the stock IC, not with the stock tune or a band aid SAFC fuel trim, not without race fuel or E85, not with stock compression ratio, not with 2 psi, and probably not with the stock fuel system.

On a general matter, these are the usual cause of higher-than-real readings :
dyno weather correction is out,
dyno inertia calibration is wrong,
dyno gear ratio is not set properly (shorter gearbox ? shorter diff ?),
you got wheel slip,
the pull was not made on the correct gear (always use the gear with 1:1 ratio, 4th usually).

It probably is a mix of the first 3 reasons, wheel slip is easy to spot and you should not have it with that boost and tune, unless you have very poor tyres.
Same goes for the gear used, using 3rd produce way off power readings, not to this point.

IMHO, but this is pure speculation on my side, if this turbo upgrade is that good, you should have a max of 280WHP, tops. Probably more like 260-270 though (which is still impressive over the stock 230ish)

[smoked240]

I'm running an all stock Rb25 tuned on e85, supporting mods of course. 10psi and I'm making 270hp and like 213tq. When I get the chance at one of these turbos, I'll set it at 10psi and I will personally make sure you get the dyno map. Hopefully that will shut you up.

Jesse, I'm kinda interested in the BB rb25 turbo. What's the price and do you happen to know when it will be for sale? Thanks.

I don't think anyone sees the big picture here. The Rb's crutch is it's turbo. Not sure if you've checked into top mount conversions for the Rb..but they can get fucking expensive. Plan on dropping 2k+ on just a twin scroll. Cause let's be honest, why waste the money on a $400 manifold from eBay that's going to crack. This turbo makes the transition into awesome power so much cheaper and easier. I thank pureturbos cause this is exactly what I've wanted for the past two years.

[Myke]

I'm running 93 octane, he did tune it in 3rd gear, before it was tuned the car put down 308.2 hp running like shit and 229 of tq... Running like shit, I have that video. After the tune it made 328 and 260 . All with a safc2 on 9 lbs. the gain was 28 hp with this turbo not 100. I'm new to turbod cars so I don't need to lie but I no this car has no other engine mods because I bought it off a friend, 3 years ago who beat it up everyday , I bought it , fixed whatever I could painted it and here it is, if u dont think my car makes this power, seriously pay for my next dyno and well see again. Or wait patiently and when he has his dyno day for way less, ill put up my new dyno sheet.... Which will be way higher

[Myke]

Pure turbos if u can put my video up feel free and let me kno what section it's in

[Jesse@PureTurbos]

Originally Posted by smoked240

Jesse, I'm kinda interested in the BB rb25 turbo. What's the price and do you happen to know when it will be for sale? Thanks.

For RB Ball Bearing Turbo - We are having a custom ball bearing bearing housing made to accept the stock RB coolant lines like our journal bearing turbo does.

We can already build a ball bearing RB turbo now, but you will have to use adapter fittings on the bearing housing for the stock coolant lines. PM us for pricing. We can have this done and shipped within 1-2 weeks.

Thanks

[ch1873857]

Is it me or are the curves identical? So i did this. and figured something very strange. 296 horsepower is above 300??? So instead of jibber jabber. I used real life math to figure out horse power per pixel and i came up with an estimated (disregarding the numbers on the sheet) that the top graph shows 327.36hp and the bottom shows 325.84hp. these are estimates and only estimates by the angle at which the picture was taken. but those numbers are oddly close to the 328.1hp. either way I have concluded because of math and my eye balls that the top sheet is in my opinion fake..

Removed picture for sake of OP.

[Jesse@PureTurbos]

Originally Posted by ch1873857

Is it me or are the curves identical? So i did this. and figured something very strange. 296 horsepower is above 300??? So instead of jibber jabber. I used real life math to figure out horse power per pixel and i came up with an estimated (disregarding the numbers on the sheet) that the top graph shows 327.36hp and the bottom shows 325.84hp. these are estimates and only estimates by the angle at which the picture was taken. but those numbers are oddly close to the 328.1hp. either way I have concluded because of math and my eye balls that the top sheet is in my opinion fake.. discuss??/

Look closer. I see what you're saying but it looks like it is two different prints of the same exact dyno sheet. I think it's the same run but the HP and TQ figures are being plotted and shown at different points on the curve. See how the top one shows 296 at a dotted line more to the left of the actual peak? Same with the TQ, the actual peak is 260.3 but over towards redline it drops down to 252.9. It looks like it's the same dyno run but with figures shown at different RPMs. Notice the dotted lines next to the figures? Same dyno sheet showing figures at 2 different RPMs. So the top one is showing torque peak, and the bottom is showing HP peak. Does that make sense? It's not FAKE and REAL. It's all REAL.

[GalmTeam]

I have to agree with Croustibat on this.
First off i'll assume you're claiming 328HP at the WHEELS and not 328HP at the ENGINE/CRANK.

If you meant 328BHP(at the engine) then you're dyno graph looks about correct and it's entirely possible with the turbo and setup you have. I've seen that Canada,Australia,Japan etc. Although, you're probably not running a very safe tune and SAFC is not a tune...it's just a bandaid solution.


Now if you mean 328RWHP.....
First off the turbo you had modded there is a RB20 turbo and not a RB25 turbo. At least from the compressor cover. Do you have any pics of the exhaust (back side) of the turbo? If you are running the stock RB20 exhaust housing then you're using a .4 A/R exhaust housing (which is smaller than the RB25 turbo exhaust housing btw) which is small and might give you some problems down the line.

It is very hard to believe that you can get 328RWHP @ 9psi with just SAFC. In Australia, UK, Canada tuners have never achieved that on a stock setup and they've all been tuning actual Skylines for years with proper stand alones. SAFC is just a fuel computer that just adds or removes fuel and tricks the AFM.

Btw, do you know what AFR you're running at WOT? Or put up the boost curves of the turbo. Everyone just wants more info/proof about the numbers you're car is making.

Stock injectors on a RB25 are 370cc which means they can only support just under 300RWHP @ around 80% duty cycle, safely with a proper tune. So at this point you either have aftermarket injectors or youre running the stockers at 80-100% duty cycle which will damage them.

in order to get ~330RWHP usually this is the formula:

-A/M Intake pipe for stock turbo or 4inch intake pipe if planning to make more than 330RWHP (stock 2.5 inch causes a restriction after 330rwhp)

-full 3 inch exhaust from turbo back (without cat preffered)

-Turbo capable to flow enough air and run at least 15psi of boost without breaking

-front mount intercooler

-Z32 maf/Q45 maf for tuning and getting proper scales; RB25 maf maxes out at just under 280-300rwhp

-A/M Fuel pump

-440cc or bigger injectors (common to use 550cc) and Fuel pressure regulator

-stand alone ECU or some form of full engine management

Now, you've done most of these except the injectors and engine management which is why it's hard to believe you're getting ~330RWHP. 330BHP.....yes that seems fine. 330RWHP....hard to believe.

In either case post up more info and let us know.

[ch1873857]

Then what is this dyno supposed to prove then? The car made 328hp.?

I want to see gain. Horsepower numbers are pretty irrelevant unless you can duplicate the dyno and the conditions with the only variable being the turbo upgrade.

Gonna have to agree with the french guy on this one.. The same car would dyno different numbers on a different dyno. Just like everyones saying

Ive been looking for GAIN because its the only thing that would prove that this turbo is 800 bucks better than stock.

I see what your saying about the graphs. Just used to normal dynos that annotate max hp. Posting two of the same graphs showing different numbers is a little deceiving. So my apologies on that. But like i said it does nothing to plead your case.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Jesse@PureTurbos]

Thanks for all the opinions and comments guys. I'll let the customer take it from here if he chooses to. Hopefully he continues to answer questions for you.
Thanks have a good one.

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by Myke

I'm running 93 octane, he did tune it in 3rd gear, before it was tuned the car put down 308.2 hp running like shit and 229 of tq...

It does not matter if the tune was done in 3 or 4, it is the dyno pull that matters. That and what was done is not a tune; you had the fueling trimmed. While it is better than nothing, it still is not a tune; a tune is about setting the timing correctly, which you cant with an SAFC. And when timing is not set correctly, you can melt pistons, or get bright red turbos (usually resulting in melted pistons too).


Now if you say the engine was running like shit and still making 308HP ... it kind of confirms what i am saying, the dyno reading is off by at least 50HP.

Originally Posted by Myke

After the tune it made 328 and 260 . All with a safc2 on 9 lbs. the gain was 28 hp with this turbo not 100.

Again, these engines make about 230WHP when stock, not 300. If you did a before/after pull and got 28HP difference, then your car makes about 260WHP, and the mistery is solved.

Originally Posted by Myke

I'm new to turbod cars so I don't need to lie [...]

I am not calling you a liar. You dont know these engines and didnt see there was a problem. If the dyno guy dont know these either, maybe he didnt see it. Or maybe he didnt care.

What i am telling is these numbers are wrong; they are the result of a badly set dyno. Wether this is intentional or not does not matter to me. It should matter to you though, i'd be angry at the dyno operator if it happened to me.

Once again, stock and new, this engine makes around 250HP at the crank, so it should be around 230HP at the wheels. Unless you had it rebuild, time has taken its toll and it should be more around 210HP, but that is only speculating; so lets say the engine is in perfect condition and made 230 at the wheel, before the turbo change.

You claim to have 328WHP. 328 minus 230ish is around 100HP.

[BlewByYou]

People under estimate RB's lol

[Myke]

I talked with my tuner. He was dead on and will do another pull just for you guys, ill have him check everything from tread depth so I don't get blamed for bald tires, to what weight oil and ambient temp. To what ever else there is to prove the hp my car makes, or have proturbos contact my tuner for another run to prove what there product makes.

[Myke]

Oh and for the guy who asked to take my fake graph down , the top is max tq, the lower is one is hp, I stacked the graphs to fit it in one camera shot.

[slideslidegnarslide]

People under estimate rbs way to much. I watched a local guy make 306 whp on a completely stock rb. Stock turbo stock injectors just had an aem v2 and a mid mount. Psi was set to 10psi. I can see this being plausible. But I guess you guys just need to see some rbs on dynos. Yes rbs make 250 from the factory, but every one knows the factory rb tunes are absolute shit. This same car made 275 at 6psi! But believe what you want guys

[ch1873857]

Originally Posted by Myke

Oh and for the guy who asked to take my fake graph down , the top is max tq, the lower is one is hp, I stacked the graphs to fit it in one camera shot.

Makes sense. Wouldve been more clear and evident if you did separate.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Myke]

Ok so this is what I got sofar , my a/f was in the 11s , it was 36 degrees out side, and thats 328 at the wheels not the crank, any questions feel free

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by slideslidegnarslide

[...]I watched a local guy make 306 whp on a completely stock rb. Stock turbo stock injectors just had an aem v2 and a mid mount. Psi was set to 10psi.

Completely stock, but with intercooler and EMS
Which just means not stock at all.

Bigger intercooler, tune, more boost, cams and headwork give horsepower. Injectors, MAF, valve springs, pistons, cranks or rods (when they dont up displacement or compression ratio) are supporting mods. These dont give more power, they are needed to avoid running unmetered air (when MAF is maxed), not enough fuel(when injectors are maxed), or die from high loads (blown ring lands, too much pressure increase on the rods).

Your local guy had power upgrades. Mykes does not. I suspect your local guy had an optimistic dyno run too, but his figures are believable even on the very high side of it.

Originally Posted by Myke

Ok so this is what I got sofar , my a/f was in the 11s , it was 36 degrees out side, and thats 328 at the wheels not the crank, any questions feel free

Another dyno run wont change anything unless that dyno is set correctly. Event then ... A dyno is supposed to be use in a relative way: do a dyno run before an upgrade, and another after the upgrade (or do multiple pulls to map the engine). You did not make a dyno run before changing the turbo, so you have no data to compare to this sheet.

By doing an absolute dyno pull, you get the results you want: a high score. I already explained why dyno operators tend to fake that kind of run. And it works.

The problem is, sometimes it produce results that scream "fake" . Like yours.

Your engine cannot make 330WHP with the setup you are saying it has. The stock fueling system would not be able to deliver AFRs in the 11 range at that power level either.

Another point is this :



(click it if it does not show : http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/998...olerpiping.jpg )

This thing is the stock intercooler. It cant flow enough air for 330WHP with the stock turbo. Fitting an upgraded or a bigger turbo and getting 330WHP through this would result in a quite some back pressure and IATs > 150°C, which may kind of work but is not acceptable if you value your engine life. I also dont think the intercooler would last very long before bursting.


Now we can keep on "debating" if you wish, but there are only 2 options here:

1/ The dyno data is real, and your engine has at least the following mods : intercooler upgrade, real tune -not talking about SAFC, fueling system upgrade (injectors at the very least), eventually cams, boost higher than 9lbs, and of course a turbo upgrade.

2/ The dyno data is wrong, and your engine really has the only mods you are stating; this should net you around 260WHP.

But 330WHP with your setup is not possible, so take your pick.

[Purestock240]

im not overly familiar with rbs, but does that car not have a front mount?

[gretz]

Yaaaaa, 330whp seems pretty high for an SAFC tuned stock RB...

Shit son, you made 30whp more than my 1jzvvti with a haltech ps2000 @ 12lbs with lots of supporting mods... I must be doing something wrong lol

[BlewByYou]

Croustibat:
The stock fueling system would not be able to deliver AFRs in the 11 range at that power level either.

lol.. We have a Rb25 Neo put down 498whp on a s14 stock fuel system! Aero 340 pump, 880cc injectors! 91oct, HX40, greddy manifold, Power Fc. Everything else Stock!

[Myke]

I already thought I said I have a big front mount, q45 maf, walboro 255 pump and I'm gonna check to see if my injectors are the stock ones, I'm not debating nor trying to be ignorant as I'm learning this car and engine, by everyone chiming in is helping more then hurting cause now I'm suspicious myself, I no for a fact the cams are stock and I don't have no adjustable cam gears. I also have no cat.

[Myke]

And just to stay one fact my buddy has a 1j in his s14 and my car beat by lengths at my local track last year before I pulled the blown turbo off

[Myke]

Here try this , go on YouTube type rj nunley batb3. This is my car that I bought from him, I am now a part of suislide , if u kno him or of this s13 u decided

[GalmTeam]

Originally Posted by BlewByYou

Croustibat:
The stock fueling system would not be able to deliver AFRs in the 11 range at that power level either.

lol.. We have a Rb25 Neo put down 498whp on a s14 stock fuel system! Aero 340 pump, 880cc injectors! 91oct, HX40, greddy manifold, Power Fc. Everything else Stock!

What? Not sure if you're being serious or not but there is nothing stock in that cars fuels system or the car itself. The only thing stock in that system is the rb25 neo top mount fuel rail which just holds the injectors. Everything else has been upgraded so its safe to assume the car would produce the 498whp