The Future Automotive Thread

[lunchmeat]

I've debated grabbing one for shits and giggles, but the wife isn't to jazzed about it being a two seater. She pays the insurance, and even if I gave her the money for it, she'd complain.

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[Future240]

And we’re working very seriously on this—how we can keep the Z alive and refreshing, and what would be the next generation?”

Easy.


Take the VR30DDTT and put it in the Z with a 6speed manual.

[dorkidori_s13]

and somehow the Q60 doesnt have any issues?

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by Future240

Easy.


Take the VR30DDTT and put it in the Z with a 6speed manual.

Right?!? The return of the illustrious 300ZX. They bullshittin.

On second thought... Wait till Toyota drops the Supra, then drop the VR30DDTT powered Z35 300ZX right on their heads.
Flame instantly reignited in the mid market price segment. Meanwhile, give us our new Silvia for the entry level!

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by simmode1

The street is flooded with these bastards.

But not even, relatively. Here are the numbers for the 350.
2002 13,253
2003 36,728
2004 30,690
2005 27,278
2006 24,635
2007 18,957
2008 10,337

For a total of 161,878 350's. GM sells more Camaros than that in 3 years. Ford with the Mustang too.

Originally Posted by Future240

Easy.


Take the VR30DDTT and put it in the Z with a 6speed manual.

Why stop there though? Do what the winners are doing. Offer it with 3 engines, track packages, and trims.

It should go like this:

2.5T w/ 280hp (quenches our Silvia thirst too)
3.0NA w/ 320-340hp
3.0TT w/ 440-475hp

All models are offered with two "track packages".

The first is a NISMO S (sport) package with like Brembos, and a LSD.

Then a NISMO R package with the same, plus exhaust, Recaros, etc etc.

Then they release like a NISMO 550R (or shit a 600R) Edition that competes with ZL1's and Shelby 500's of the world.

Nissan HAS the engineering for this. Nissan HAS the funds for this. Nissan will never do do this shit even if it makes all the sense in the world to us.

[exitspeed]

Meanwhile the GTR becomes a hybrid supercar. Like 700hp. Which it needs to have in the next gen if it’s going to be another supercar killer like the current one was when it first came out.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

But not even, relatively. Here are the numbers for the 350.
2002 13,253
2003 36,728
2004 30,690
2005 27,278
2006 24,635
2007 18,957
2008 10,337

For a total of 161,878 350's. GM sells more Camaros than that in 3 years. Ford with the Mustang too.

Yeah, that's a flood to me. But that Mustang/Camaro volume? That's a whole sea... Camry and Altimas tho? OCEANS...lol

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Why stop there though? Do what the winners are doing. Offer it with 3 engines, track packages, and trims.

It should go like this:

2.5T w/ 280hp (quenches our Silvia thirst too)
3.0NA w/ 320-340hp
3.0TT w/ 440-475hp

All models are offered with two "track packages".

The first is a NISMO S (sport) package with like Brembos, and a LSD.

Then a NISMO R package with the same, plus exhaust, Recaros, etc etc.

Then they release like a NISMO 550R (or shit a 600R) Edition that competes with ZL1's and Shelby 500's of the world.
Meanwhile the GTR becomes a hybrid supercar. Like 700hp. Which it needs to have in the next gen if it’s going to be another supercar killer like the current one was when it first came out.

Nissan HAS the engineering for this. Nissan HAS the funds for this. Nissan will never do do this shit even if it makes all the sense in the world to us.

Can definitely dig all of this. Too bad Nissan will never deliver it.

[Fries]

I personally loved the z34's look since the beginning and planned to pick one up, but thankfully life came up and prevented me from doing so. I would consider a z33 for a drift car since they can be had low mileage at about 10-12k and are reasonably capable out of the box.

Exitspeed's plan to reinvigorate the z chassis is intelligent, but you'd still be fighting against society - muscle cars are cool and people like them. Children have posters of 60s mustangs and camaros, but I dont know a single kid that has a post of a 240z. Shit I've always loved muscle cars, but enjoyed the way imports handled... now that mustangs and camaros out power and out handle most imports, it's not even worth the thought to even consider the cheaper built and slower Nissan/Lexus/Etc.

[exitspeed]

Sure there may have not been posters for Supras, GTRs, Zs, etc, but there is Gran Turismo which was probably even more significant to kids than a poster on their wall. Plus there’s the internet itself. How’s many kids, young adults, grown ass men have these cars as their wallpaper or backgrounds on their phones and computers? Countless.

My plan is realistic and exciting. There’s a market for it.

I for one am finally finally coming around to the idea of maaaaaybe being ok with buying a Camaro or Mustang because there’s just no denying how good these cars are now. However I’d be genuinely excited to buy a Z that that was a real competitor.

[simmode1]

^^^TBH, I have a domestic on my laptop's wallpaper too...lol

[Future240]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Sure there may have not been posters for Supras, GTRs, Zs, etc, but there is Gran Turismo which was probably even more significant to kids than a poster on their wall. Plus there’s the internet itself. How’s many kids, young adults, grown ass men have these cars as their wallpaper or backgrounds on their phones and computers? Countless.

Honestly speaking, Need for Speed underground is the reason I am here today.


I was looking up skylines and came across a picture of a Silvia K had no idea what it was just know I was in love.


While not as big as the pony cars I agree there is a market for these cars. Look at the Ford Focus ST.


People point at the GT86/BRZ and see they didn't do so hot. If they had came with boosted boxers putting out decent numbers I bet that car would be legendary by now.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by Future240

People point at the GT86/BRZ and see they didn't do so hot. If they had came with boosted boxers putting out decent numbers I bet that car would be legendary by now.

I'd like to think that, but the Genesis coupe gave us a boosted 2.0t with very respectable performance for it's price point and everyone gave it shit from day one.

[MightyMouse13]

True but you do have to take into account the power of name recognition in marketing. The Genesis to the masses is a Hyundai. Sure, enthusiasts look at the performance numbers when deciding on a car, but for the most part, the train of thought is 1) who makes the car/ what car is it, then 2) how does it look, then 3) is it actually any good. They could make a base model “Supra” with a 150 hp 4 banger and it would probably still push units because it’s a Supra. Genesis was never going to have that going for it. At least the GT86 has some of that in its corner but just couldn’t deliver on the final product.


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[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Saying the segment in shrinking is a fucking cop out. While the Z isn’t a pony car, it’s priced in that same range. It needs to be redesigned to compete with them. Those cars (and the challenger) are selling 60,000-75,000 examples a year. If they made the car WORTH it they could easily get at least 40,000 sales a year out of the Z. They’d have to be happy with that.

I would not make the Z a pony car . It's always been about being a Sports car till Nissan made a GT with the Z32. The 350 got back closer to the pure sports car aspect even though it was still not completely true to the original . It was still a breath of fresh air for the Z line. Taking it into pony car territory would just destroy the image of it all together. It's just not and never has been a pony car.
This is coming from a long time Z enthusiast that owned several of the original.

P.S. Who even has Mr K's autograph on my 2002 240sx National Convention Badge!

[exitspeed]

But here’s where we’re at...they either evolve it (I’d still never call it a pony car) to legitimately compete with the pony cars or its dead. Period. I mean it’s dead now as far as most of us are concerned. The Z mind as we’ll stand for Zombie the way that thing is shambling around dealership lots right now.

History is great and all but I’d rather see it evolve into something we’d all want. Let’s face it, we want the performance of these pony cars in maybe a smaller blueprint. I’m fine with less HP but then they really need to up their game on making the car lighter. And to be honest Nissan is not even coming close to the weight reduction engineering achievements that GM has made lately, Camaro included. They have the engines that can make the power. Just fucking do it Nissan.

[dorkidori_s13]

or if nissan just brought back its pony car *cough silvia cough* there wouldnt be an issue...


OOOOORRRRRR like its been suggested numerous times in this thread already... offer the Z with a few different motors much like the already existing american companies do with their pony cars and BAM, you have every sports car segment covered! 4 banger turbo pushing 300ish hp, a 6 cylinder pushing mid 300s and a top tier twin turbo 6 pushing 400-450hp... MIND BLOWN!!!

im still confused on here there is such a disconnect with Nissan and the sports car market. they claim they dont know what to do with the Z... all the while the Q60 is offered with 2 motor options, and again, the Mustang and Camaro are prime examples of things done RIGHT!

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Fries

Children have posters of 60s mustangs and camaros, but I dont know a single kid that has a post of a 240z. Shit I've always loved muscle cars, but enjoyed the way imports handled... now that mustangs and camaros out power and out handle most imports, it's not even worth the thought to even consider the cheaper built and slower Nissan/Lexus/Etc.

You're part of the millenial generation ( not trying to offend just stating fact) your generation barely have posters of cars at all. Most of your generation wants to be driven around in uber or Lyft and is not into cars beyond a people mover.

You came of age in the late oughts . While Nissan was making 350Z's they were note never advertising them or Factory racing them. You were six or seven when Nissan dumped the Z.

There would be no reason for e few that were into cars a bit would have posters of any Nissan's lol.

Back in the late 70's and into the 80's kids did have posters of race winning Z cars. It was a pretty big thing. My first true sports car was a 240z .

Nissan dropping out of factory backed racing at the beginning of the 90's really affected the brand image in the U.S.

It did not help in the 80's either when they decided to drop the Datsun brand nam in favor of the corporate name. The Datsun brand name had become storied not just with all the racing wins but being a great reliable Japanese car. It truly owned Toyota in the sports car department and also sold great in the other segments . Datsun pickups were far more popular than Toyota's in those days. Ya and they raced them too!

Anyways both Ford and GM never stopped selling Mustangs and Camaros in one form or another hence making the name presence much more imbedded in the publics eyes . After 96 Nissan dropped the Z and without racing it practically disappeared.

I got into 240sx's ( S13 Fastback )because it was more like a modern Z in the 90's than the Z32 was.

Originally Posted by exitspeed

But here’s where we’re at...they either evolve it (I’d still never call it a pony car) to legitimately compete with the pony cars or its dead. Period. I mean it’s dead now as far as most of us are concerned. The Z mind as we’ll stand for Zombie the way that thing is shambling around dealership lots right now.

History is great and all but I’d rather see it evolve into something we’d all want. Let’s face it, we want the performance of these pony cars in maybe a smaller blueprint. I’m fine with less HP but then they really need to up their game on making the car lighter. And to be honest Nissan is not even coming close to the weight reduction engineering achievements that GM has made lately, Camaro included. They have the engines that can make the power. Just fucking do it Nissan.

I can get my head around this. I get where your going, amd I do agree right now it's the walking dead.

I do think taking it back to its roots could possibly appease the Silvia crowd and give the Z fans a car they would appreciate. I will be the first to say that a lot of manufacturers these days do not advertise their sports cars when they did in the past.
That definitely does not help. Mazda promotes their sports car image heavily. Nissan pays lip service to it by calling their vehicles sporting but not really promoting them.

Ford is guilty of it as wel. The Fiesta ST is one of the best hot hatches built in a long time yet Ford does not and has not ever advertised the car. Hence its a cult car.

They advertised Focus's like they were going out of style, result Focus's sell and they sell a fair amount of Focus ST's.

Toyota and Suburu do not advertise their FRS/GT86/BRZ. The numbers don't lie no advertising no sales.

Oh and the manufacturers do not even have much of desire to advertise sports cars because they are too busy smoking the EV crack pipe thinking it's the answer to all.
Of course it is the Government gives them kickbacks to sell them .It makes up for what would be an exhorbitantly expensive car otherwise.

[kingkilburn]

NISSAN FINALLY MADE IT REAL


Now they need to put it in something worthwhile.

[kingkilburn]

P.S.

Books, video games, and old race footage got me into cars. I couldn't care less about a poster. Get my moving pictures of a 510 out braking and cornering a mustang. Show me why r32 gtrs were banned from gt racing. Give me a list of just how dominant the Zs were in North American club racing. Then put me behind the virtual wheel and give me a taste of how amazing it must have been to drive those machines.

I'm 31 and I can't imagine being into cars based purely on magazine hype and marketing posters.

[exitspeed]

And while Nissan’s breathrough in the variable compression engine seems like a big deal it pales in comparison to Mazda’s spark controlled compression ignition (SCCI) engine. They are saying that it’s as clean as an EV when you account for manufacturing. That shit is nuts.

[simmode1]

Geezus, that looks like that's going to be one tall ass 4 banger...

[TheRealSy90]

Anybody else annoyed with how high the belt line has become on "modern" cars?
It just looks so ugly to me, I miss the low slung belt lines of older vehicles. I know it's all in the name of safety because of all the reinforcements, crush zones, and airbags etc.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Geezus, that looks like that's going to be one tall ass 4 banger...

Video says height wise it is the same as a normal 4cyl.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

or if nissan just brought back its pony car *cough silvia cough* there wouldnt be an issue...


OOOOORRRRRR like its been suggested numerous times in this thread already... offer the Z with a few different motors much like the already existing american companies do with their pony cars and BAM, you have every sports car segment covered! 4 banger turbo pushing 300ish hp, a 6 cylinder pushing mid 300s and a top tier twin turbo 6 pushing 400-450hp... MIND BLOWN!!!

im still confused on here there is such a disconnect with Nissan and the sports car market. they claim they dont know what to do with the Z... all the while the Q60 is offered with 2 motor options, and again, the Mustang and Camaro are prime examples of things done RIGHT!

They have been talking about 2 engines in the Z for a while now. The biggest hang up is wether to split it into 2 models with the 4 being stripped down for lighter weight. Or, to have different trim levels. I don't see any indication of them having any direction with where they are going with the Z.

Q60 is a boat. I really don't like the marketing as some sort of luxury GTR because it is totally different. But you are right in the fact that the G60s tech should transfer into the 370z easily. All I can think of is that they are scared of effecting GTR sales which is ridiculous because they are totally different cars. Buyers of a Z may want to drool over a GTR at the dealership when buying their Z but you aren't going to have a GTR buyer see a Z with the same horsepower for 60k and get that instead.

Something Chevy figured out decades ago when they were selling F-body Cameros and Firebirds next to the Corvette with the same engine. Still do to this day. Then we got Nissan at the same time pulling the turbo out of the 240sx to not complete with the NA Z. They still have no clue how brand/model separation works.

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Anybody else annoyed with how high the belt line has become on "modern" cars?
It just looks so ugly to me, I miss the low slung belt lines of older vehicles. I know it's all in the name of safety because of all the reinforcements, crush zones, and airbags etc.

It is totally for crash safety. There is a big bar going across there. Late 90s there was a bar going diagonally from the latch to the bottom hinge to hold the door together is a crash and it was thought you wanted the top of the door in the center of the upper arm/chest to protect the body.

Now with side impact head injury protection they want the reinforced upper part of the door near the shoulder. Moving the belt line of the car up.

I have seen some vans and trucks like the F250 have the line high near the driver then drop down lower near the mirror for better visibility.

I don't know if there is a way to transfer the energy of a crash into the shoulder without the door being that high. Air bags just protect the head while the body takes the impact. I'm sure if there was a way someone would have implemented it already.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by Future240

Video says height wise it is the same as a normal 4cyl.

Ahhhh.... at work only half watching the video. Must have missed that part. Cool.

[exitspeed]

The other part of the belt line height increase are the new pedestrian crash safety specs too.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

P.S.

Books, video games, and old race footage got me into cars. I couldn't care less about a poster. Get my moving pictures of a 510 out braking and cornering a mustang. Show me why r32 gtrs were banned from gt racing. Give me a list of just how dominant the Zs were in North American club racing. Then put me behind the virtual wheel and give me a taste of how amazing it must have been to drive those machines.

I'm 31 and I can't imagine being into cars based purely on magazine hype and marketing posters.

I was always into cars and watched racing as a kid. Saw 510's and Z cars on the track first hand. 3 years straight SCCA Trans Am under 2.5 liter championships.
The list of Z wins was off the charts. I remember when the RX7's debuted and they would put Super Trap motorcycle mufflers on them. Fucking angry bees ripping around Laguna Seca and Sears Point.
That's what caused me to buy my first Z after owning 510's for three years. I woke up one morning said I am going to buy a 240z and went and bought my early 72 2350lb car Blue Z.
More would come after that initial one. Should have kept #346 yup 1970 it was blue too. Who would have thought? Lol
Sold it to some guy from the Hunters point/ Protero Hill. Must have been around 86
Drove my Orange 72 up to the Nissan lot in 89 and went and test drove a 240sx new! Along with a Mazda 323 Turbo ( yes the rally cars). Did not buy either of them at the time. Wound up with a Hardbody pickup. Lol 240sx's would come around 1998-1999 for me.

[lunchmeat]

Grew up in my dad's blue 240z, and later, my grandfather's poo brown 280zx. God, I loved those cars. If I could find a 240z or early 280z, that wasn't a shitbox or stupid expensive, I'd be all over it.

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[exitspeed]

https://blog.caranddriver.com/former...n-ev-adoption/

Some eye opening insights in regard to EVs from one of the industry’s greats.

[dorkidori_s13]