The Future Automotive Thread

[Dutchmalmiss]

More details on Mazda's inline 6:
- Production to begin 2022
- Will be between 3.0 to 3.3 liters
- New models to be priced "significantly higher than current models"

I think despite the price hike, it still won't be BMW money. That said, this could be a modern "successor" to the E34 M5. This is excitinggggg

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/01/07/...lXaJI8URUoKO4v

[Future240]

A fully load Mazada 6 right now

2020 MAZDA6
SIGNATURE

2020 MAZDA6 SIGNATURE $35,400
BUILD OPTIONS (2) $450
DESTINATION FEE $945
TOTAL PRICE
(MSRP) $ 36,795

Price for Base 3 Series
MSRP AS BUILT

$41,250

If the price is "significantly higher" it would be smack dab in 3 series territory maybe 4 series on the high end.

M4 coupe base price
Starting MSRP $45,600

Now granted the base model 6 that does not even have carplay is like 24k.

[dorkidori_s13]

meh... wont be offered in stick. no care!

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by Future240

M4 coupe base price
Starting MSRP $45,600

Now granted the base model 6 that does not even have carplay is like 24k.

I think you mean base 4 series price. if a base M4 is at that price it would do well to offset the offensive exterior design haha

that being said, kinda sad the 3/4 series is still used as some sort of benchmark today given you can barely call it a performance sedan given how disconnected the car is today. I don't think they make a stick for it either.

[Dutchmalmiss]

100% agree that the 3/4 series should no longer be a benchmark anymore. What's everyone's thoughts on what it should be now?

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

100% agree that the 3/4 series should no longer be a benchmark anymore. What's everyone's thoughts on what it should be now?

The Benchmark now is the 2 series because it harkens back to what the 3 series used to be. The 4 series was just BMW capitalizing rather than being a real benchmark. lol

[kingkilburn]

BMW has gone too soft and bloated to be the benchmark anymore. I think the sales numbers and performance say Mustang even if it's not entirely ideal. Maybe when the new Z hits the market well have a new standard.

[ronmcdon]

the only thing the 4 series benchmarks is an exterior design that makes one recoil in extreme disgust.

its really hard to think of a sports sedan that does it all as much as prior generation 3 series. genesis/stinger is great effort but not quite there yet. gulia and ct5v get good praise for being fun to drive and responsive but have shortcomings in reliability, bad interior, etc. C class is like a watered down 3 series. A3/A4 perform well with stats but are generally considered very boring cars. tesla model 3 is very polarizing of a car, great performance on paper but it's really disconnecting of a driving experience.

I like the 2 series coupe (NOT the sedan or gran coupe or whatever jargon its called) and m2 a lot and yes it goes to show how different a direction bmw has taken.

with mustang, its a damn shame they killed off the gt350. imo it was the sweet spot despite horrendous adm for the 350r.

[Future240]

^^^Right?????

The new design is horrendous.

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

I think you mean base 4 series price. if a base M4 is at that price it would do well to offset the offensive exterior design haha

that being said, kinda sad the 3/4 series is still used as some sort of benchmark today given you can barely call it a performance sedan given how disconnected the car is today. I don't think they make a stick for it either.

Correct meant base 4 series.

[ronmcdon]

I know. I thought the bmw 2 series psuedo sedan like CUV contraption was bad. the 4 series, M3/M4 blew me away when it took things to whole other level.

maybe they are trying to appease the market in mainland china, i dont know what they’re thinking.

[kingkilburn]

If they beefed up the rods and valve springs(the higher redline suggests this) I think I'm still okay with this engine. It's going to respond even better to a turbo than the existing engine.

[BryanSayWhat]

I'm still pretty bummed about it. lol

[Antihero983]

They did exactly what I hoped they would. As a former BRZ owner, all I ever wanted was a slight bump in displacement, and for years I said the 2.5 out of the Legacy would've been perfect. These cars don't NEED turbos, I never understood people's obsession with it. I miss my 2013, it was one of my 3 favorite cars I've owned, and I had never planned to boost it.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by Antihero983

I never understood people's obsession with it. I miss my 2013, it was one of my 3 favorite cars I've owned, and I had never planned to boost it.

Sure you do.

Take an S-chassis and imagine an SR20DE at 155 vs a KA24DE at a pretend 190 vs an SR20DET at 220hp with the ability to tune, up the boost, bigger exhaust etc to make more power.

People want the best of both worlds. Light on its feet and fun to drive but with some grunt too.

Straight line performance while basic still matters. No one wants to get dusted by a mininvan.

Most people do not spend all their seat time at the track or spirited driving.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by Antihero983

These cars don't NEED turbos, I never understood people's obsession with it.

You really can't understand why people want a sub 3,000lb rwd M/T car with over 250hp?

[Antihero983]

*sigh* I understand why people would want that. What I can't understand is the seemingly incessant bitching about it. Like let it go already, it ain't happening, and the car it plenty capable in areas other than power. Power has never been the most important thing to me, so I kinda got over it relatively quick.

Also people are fucking HIGH if they think Subaru will turbo it, because that would cut into WRX sales.

[exitspeed]

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/01/14/...nt-renderings/

So here is the final version of the new Z. Pretty much true to the concept. I?m sure the 3D guys will have neee renders of it based off of these patent renderings in no time. Im still loving it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Antihero983

*sigh* I understand why people would want that. What I can't understand is the seemingly incessant bitching about it. Like let it go already, it ain't happening, and the car it plenty capable in areas other than power. Power has never been the most important thing to me, so I kinda got over it relatively quick.

Also people are fucking HIGH if they think Subaru will turbo it, because that would cut into WRX sales.

I don?t think so. Maybe on the margins those two cars are cross shopped but I think for the most part it?s two different buyers with entirely different needs/wants.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ronmcdon]

agreed I dont see the 2 being crossed shopped all that much. if there is cross shopping to be done, more likely its based on budget rather than hp figures. theres already a lot of overlap in pricing between the brz and wrx.

I do somewhat agree a turbo brz wont happen because customers want it. subaru is among the most stubborn of japanese manufacturers. seems like wrx and sti have not changed all
that much in the US in the past 20 years, so good luck with the brz also doing so. they’re probably dedicated to preserving brz’s torque dip just to spite their customers

[dorkidori_s13]

count on this BRZ/GT86 being the last that is gas powered. i believe the Japanese (particularly Toyota) have announced that by 2030, ALL cars manufactured will be exclusively electronic or hybrid. strictly petrol powered vehicles are on their way out... so say good by the manual transmissions completely as well.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by Antihero983

*sigh* I understand why people would want that. What I can't understand is the seemingly incessant bitching about it. Like let it go already, it ain't happening, and the car it plenty capable in areas other than power. Power has never been the most important thing to me, so I kinda got over it relatively quick.

People want the performance of the FD3S and S15 Spec R... The only thing holding the new/ old ones back from that is a turbo. That's what you are "seemingly" not understanding. Tsuchiya is even vocal in saying the same thing.

We literately want the same performance as Japanese cars that were made over 20yrs ago (that even by today's standards are "outdated"). Now if the FRS/BRZ/GT86/GR86 was closer to 2,000lbs the whole power thing would be a different story.

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

seems like wrx and sti have not changed all that much in the US in the past 20 years, so good luck with the brz also doing so.

The chassis has actually been noticeable improved in the past 20yrs. The 2015 WRX STI increased torsional rigidity by 40% and bending rigidity by 30% from the previous 2014 model.

Subaru is claiming on their website that the 2022 BRZ has "50% increased torsional rigidity, and 60% increased front lateral rigidity". That's a huge improvement to the chassis vs. the small weight it gained.

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

count on this BRZ/GT86 being the last that is gas powered. i believe the Japanese (particularly Toyota) have announced that by 2030, ALL cars manufactured will be exclusively electronic or hybrid. strictly petrol powered vehicles are on their way out... so say good by the manual transmissions completely as well.

This is another big reason why people are "incessant bitching about" not getting a turbo. This could've been the last time that Subaru/ Toyota actually delivered on a car that was the modern equivalent to the FD3S and S15 Spec R.

[Bluejayde]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

So here is the final version of the new Z. Pretty much true to the concept. I?m sure the 3D guys will have neee renders of it based off of these patent renderings in no time. Im still loving it.

The profile is nice, that's an improvement. The taillight area is awkward, it harkens back to older models like the 240sx hatch and the early 300zx, but not in a good way. The front grille looks exactly like the original 240Z- like they cut it with a hacksaw to fit a huge radiator and covered it with a few crooked sticks of metal.

I think it has potential if the aftermarket gets on board.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Bluejayde

The profile is nice, that's an improvement. The taillight area is awkward, it harkens back to older models like the 240sx hatch and the early 300zx, but not in a good way. The front grille looks exactly like the original 240Z- like they cut it with a hacksaw to fit a huge radiator and covered it with a few crooked sticks of metal.

I think it has potential if the aftermarket gets on board.

The amount of renders out there for aero is insane. The aftermarket is going to be nuts. Next in-person SEMA is going to be all Z?s, Supra?s and BRZ/86?s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Antihero983]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

People want the performance of the FD3S and S15 Spec R... The only thing holding the new/ old ones back from that is a turbo. That's what you are "seemingly" not understanding. Tsuchiya is even vocal in saying the same thing.

We literately want the same performance as Japanese cars that were made over 20yrs ago (that even by today's standards are "outdated"). Now if the FRS/BRZ/GT86/GR86 was closer to 2,000lbs the whole power thing would be a different story.

The chassis has actually been noticeable improved in the past 20yrs. The 2015 WRX STI increased torsional rigidity by 40% and bending rigidity by 30% from the previous 2014 model.

Subaru is claiming on their website that the 2022 BRZ has "50% increased torsional rigidity, and 60% increased front lateral rigidity". That's a huge improvement to the chassis vs. the small weight it gained.

This is another big reason why people are "incessant bitching about" not getting a turbo. This could've been the last time that Subaru/ Toyota actually delivered on a car that was the modern equivalent to the FD3S and S15 Spec R.

Correct on the rigidity part.

And as mentioned earlier, Subaru is beyond stubborn (I've worked for them for 13 years now), so the bitching seems pointless knowing how fruitless it is.

Besides, even if they did make it turbo, people would STILL whine and most people wouldn't end up buying it anyway.

It's like all the people who go on and on about the death of the manual transmission but never bother to buy a new car with one.

Moving on...

I'm still not sold on the new Z as far as looks go. It comes off as too much of a hodgepodge of throwbacks for my taste. But I am cautiously optimistic, because Nissan knows they have to nail this one. We shall see.

[ronmcdon]

well yeah that's usually the thing, you give enthusiasts what they want and usually there is something still not good enough. very often it's gripes out exterior design (which imo is not all that important as long as it doesn't detract from the way a car drives). I can't say I don't have any empathy for manufacturers who move away entirely from making fun cars.

[Future240]

With the new engine in the brz I wonder if adding a turbo will even be possible. Compression is 13:5:1.

[Antihero983]

Originally Posted by Future240

With the new engine in the Z I wonder if adding a turbo will even be possible. Compression is 13:5:1.

Ohhhh that's a good point! I've heard rumors about it being turbo, but we all know how that usually goes.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by Antihero983

Ohhhh that's a good point! I've heard rumors about it being turbo, but we all know how that usually goes.

sorry brain slip I meant brz

[deolio]

If the z is the last manual turbo sports car I'm gonna be mega sad.

[Antihero983]

Originally Posted by Future240

sorry brain slip I meant brz

So as far as my "friends" up the ladder at SNE are concerned, there is zero intention of a snail ever coming on the BRZ from the factory.