KA vs SR- with a twist

[Frank_Jaeger]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

I replaced all my seals, timing components(as required to keep my 90day warranty by the importer) and a headgasket with ARPs because I was already in there. Thousands of people have swapped the motor and done nothing more. They are a very stout motor and because of his hate towards the SR he spits uneducated bullshit about it.

A factory 180k KA will not last long when you slap a large turbo on it. Can they handle power? Yes. Do they melt pistons just like an SR when run lean or the tune is off, all day long.

You replaced your headgasket with head studs? Awesome.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by Tom N

S15 SR20 has made nealy 1500hp and run a 6.70 1/4 at over 200mph.
Just saying.

Calling it cheap trash is silly.
4g63 is probably the cheapest motor to make fast and IMO the best 4 cylinder out there. If the SR20 had bigger ports in the head it would be a very close second.

the 4g63 is a BEAST of a engine possibly best 4 cylinder made period.

[Bmxer300zx]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

if you cant tear a engine apart and fix it then you should not be swapping motors or working on a car now should you?

espcially swapping LSD's in your cars and shimming them properly getting ring gear and pinion tolerance right or transmission work either seeing as a transmission/diff is way more complicated then tearing a engine apart.

Oh your right in order to be able to swap engines I should first know how to tear them down and rebuild them, know how to use tuning programs, jig rig knockoff turbos on and more?
As apposed to dropping a sr20 in and changing a couple wires, intercooler piping and rad. Wow total sense there im surprised the moderators on here don't just hand their jobs to you seeing how everything you speak is soooo fucking easy.

[jr_ss]

$2000 doll hairs, doesn't get you a built KA, nor does it get you all the components or a tune...

Regardless of what you think the SR is far from trailer trash. It has been and will continue to be one of the best 4cylinders on the market. Nissan kept it around well into the new millennia and for over a decade in 3 different chassis'.

[240boi115]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

whats a full SR swap without install run? 2,500? 3k? okay I'll NAME you every part you can build the ka-t out of.

forged weisco pistons - $435
forged weisco 4340 rods - $424
holset HX35 - $290 (too big for you?) holset HE351 (hx40 comp housing and wheel with a hy35 turbine) $200-300
620CC injectors sard - 250$
ACL rod bearings - $25.00
ACl alumglide main bearings - $40.00
turbo manifold - $80

woah we're already setup for serious power and only 1,544 into it.

hone = 10x4 = $40

balance = 250

walbro fual pump 420lph - $140
cometic head gasket - $90
brain cower stage 2 turbo cams - 400

nistune - 550

total in it about 3,010 vs a completely stock 200hp sr20?

yea it's a no brainer. I even threw hone and a balanced assembly in for you.

wow really??? where the hell are you buying your motors?? i can get mine for 1800 without install use the other 1200 on good bolt ons and some seals/ gaskets and boom. although the nistune beats me but id rather run a motor that was meant for boost than one that needs to be prepped... and youre praying on your ka block holding up after 200k+ miles on it.

[jr_ss]

Originally Posted by Frank_Jaeger

You replaced your headgasket with head studs? Awesome.

Haha, smartass! You know what I meant.

[Tom N]

Originally Posted by mewantkouki

SR and KA are the same goddamn thing. One makes more torque and marginally more hp than the other. The both have the same shit cast pistons. SR is better out of the box. Stronger connecting rods, lighter, fully counter weighted crankshaft, and larger head bolts. There are pro's and cons to each. KA's make boat loads of torque, but they are very sensitive to tune in stock form. Built neither engine is really going to edge the other out in performance. 500whp in an S-chassis isn't practical on the street anyway. Pick what you like and stick with it. You can have a built bottom end ka for what you spend on a stock SR swap. (Not that it matters with the modest power goals most set forth on this forum.) I've owned, beaten and broken both past 350whp. There isn't any advantage to either. SR is much more expensive in every respect though.

You are probably right as I have no experience with the KA. But I know 2 people with KA-T's that make right at about the sane HP as me ( they make a tad more ) but I make a good bit more torque than them and I have a SR.

[Frank_Jaeger]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

whats a full SR swap without install run? 2,500? 3k? okay I'll NAME you every part you can build the ka-t out of.

forged weisco pistons - $435
forged weisco 4340 rods - $424
holset HX35 - $290 (too big for you?) holset HE351 (hx40 comp housing and wheel with a hy35 turbine) $200-300
620CC injectors sard - 250$
ACL rod bearings - $25.00
ACl alumglide main bearings - $40.00
turbo manifold - $80

woah we're already setup for serious power and only 1,544 into it.

hone = 10x4 = $40

balance = 250

walbro fual pump 420lph - $140
cometic head gasket - $90
brain cower stage 2 turbo cams - 400

nistune - 550

total in it about 3,010 vs a completely stock 200hp sr20?

yea it's a no brainer. I even threw hone and a balanced assembly in for you.

I'm currently doing a turbo setup for my KA... fully built engine, HX35, 750cc injectors, Nistune, and I'm about $3000 into it. I anticipate spending another $1000.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

$2000 doll hairs, doesn't get you a built KA, nor does it get you all the components or a tune...

Regardless of what you think the SR is far from trailer trash. It has been and will continue to be one of the best 4cylinders on the market. Nissan kept it around well into the new millennia and for over a decade in 3 different chassis'.

so has the VG30E/ET
'
was made in 1982 released in 1983 and last year in a car was 2004.... but does that mean it isn't trash? nope.

[Bmxer300zx]

[QUOTE=S12 Drifter;5281028]whats a full SR swap without install run? 2,500? 3k? okay I'll NAME you every part you can build the ka-t out of.
/QUOTE]
.
You're retarded my friend got a s13 blacktop for $1650 at jdmenginezone we swapped it in a week he got a rad kit cxracing and cx intercooler kit with onepeice plenum for another $600.
He did tstat and thats it. The engine also had nismo clutch/flywheel, hks actuator and other little goodies throughout. Shit ran mint for over a year on 13psi. Oh sold the ka for $250 and trans to me for $150 so minus that out you have less than 2k wow
Edit: sorry forgot the downpipe!

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by 240boi115

wow really??? where the hell are you buying your motors?? i can get mine for 1800 without install use the other 1200 on good bolt ons and some seals/ gaskets and boom. although the nistune beats me but id rather run a motor that was meant for boost than one that needs to be prepped... and youre praying on your ka block holding up after 200k+ miles on it.

the ka24 block will NOT crack it will be harder to crack BMW proved this in their 1986 season with a 1,500 4 cylinder, they gabbed 200k mile junkyard blocks pissed on them left them in the weather etc etc etc.

by the time a motor reaches 200k it will have expanded and contracted so many times the cast iron will have widdiled out any imperfections.

high mileage engine blocks are actually better then lower mileage engine blocks for making power.

ask BMW they do it all the time in their race cars.

[S12 Drifter]

[QUOTE=Bmxer300zx;5281053]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

whats a full SR swap without install run? 2,500? 3k? okay I'll NAME you every part you can build the ka-t out of.
/QUOTE]
.
You're retarded my friend got a s13 blacktop for $1650 at jdmenginezone we swapped it in a week he got a rad kit cxracing and cx intercooler kit with onepeice plenum for another $600.
He did tstat and thats it. The engine also had nismo clutch/flywheel, hks actuator and other little goodies throughout. Shit ran mint for over a year on 13psi. Oh sold the ka for $250 and trans to me for $150 so minus that out you have less than 2k wow
Edit: sorry forgot the downpipe!

how much is the TOTAL he spent in parts and install?

[Bmxer300zx]

[QUOTE=S12 Drifter;5281059]

Originally Posted by Bmxer300zx

how much is the TOTAL he spent in parts and install?

Can you fucking READ!

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by Bmxer300zx

Can you fucking READ!

what about motor oil? transmission oil? coolant? radiator? driveshaft? engine brackets.

i dunno.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by 240boi115

wow really??? where the hell are you buying your motors?? i can get mine for 1800 without install use the other 1200 on good bolt ons and some seals/ gaskets and boom. although the nistune beats me but id rather run a motor that was meant for boost than one that needs to be prepped... and youre praying on your ka block holding up after 200k+ miles on it.

Massive Engines Part 2 BMW Turbo Power 200k - YouTube

[josh_schul]

The answer is all personal preference.. do what YOU want to do.

I personally am going built KA-T (should be firing her up this weekend actually). Its not cheaper than an sr swap. However, I know exactly who, what, and how the motor was assembled. Plus, its now a candidate for power that far exceeds a reliable used stock sr imo.

Either way you chose to take your build... just know that there will be all those little "nickel and dime" expenses that everyone always leaves out when doing these kind of things or the struggle to actually commit and follow through with a build or swap in general.

[Bmxer300zx]

Radiator was listed with I.c parts.
My entire cx fmic was $190 on my car I don't buy kits I make the least amount of piping possible.
If you don't know that the sr20 is a drop in motor with mounts and driveshaft you shouldn't be building motors.
I dont include oil, trans fluid, spark plugs or coolant where thats a givin no matter what motor you swap. Unless you keep the spark plugs that came with your 220k miles vg30e boat anchor

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by Bmxer300zx

Radiator was listed with I.c parts.
My entire cx fmic was $190 on my car I don't buy kits I make the least amount of piping possible.
If you don't know that the sr20 is a drop in motor with mounts and driveshaft you shouldn't be building motors.
I dont include oil, trans fluid, spark plugs or coolant where thats a givin no matter what motor you swap. Unless you keep the spark plugs that came with your 220k miles vg30e boat anchor

the problem is not everyone knows that. thats like saying, if you didn't know a VG30DETT is a drop in swap for a Z31 then you shouldn't be working on cars. thats pretty ignorant stuff which further proves your intelligence of the vg30ET.

[jr_ss]

Or the fact we just don't give a shit about the worst Z chassis made...

[Mikester]

I think I lost about 15 IQ points reading this thread.

S12 Drifter- The SR is a good motor- far from 'trash'... and I am not some 2F2F-reject kid... I bought my SR in Japan before half you fuckers were even old enough to drive, then brought it home with me when I came back to the states... I beat the ever-loving shit out of it, but kept it well-maintained- it never let me down. Pretty sure that excludes me from your 'bandwagon fanboi' stereotype... BTW- In Japan, if you swapped an RB20 into an S-chassis; with a few key exceptions you would very likely get laughed at. Wonder why that is?

Nothing wrong with doing a KA-t... It's been done enough times to where there is a good knowledge base on how to do it effectively.

I told OP on the 240sx forum that I recommend that he pursues the KA-t option. NOT because SR's are trash, but because the amount of ass-pain he would have to go thru on an SR that has NO crank; and God only knows what else that needs to be fixed/replaced on it before he even begins to contemplate a swap. If that dude had been offering him a turn-key, running SR setup for even $1500; my recommendation would have been different- and that has NOTHING to do with which motor I favor, and EVERYTHING to do with economics.

You can sit and quote prices and Google facts, figures etc all you want. Doesn't matter WHAT you are doing, the nickels and dimes add up; and if you don't have the time, the right tools and/or know how to do your ALL of your own work- the price for either option will go a lot higher than just the price of the parts needed to do it. Which motor is any better than the other is a moot point.

Going back to OP... haven't seen him even touch this thread for a while- probably left the poor kid even more confused than he already is... or laughing his ass off at the stupid tangent you knuckleheads took off on.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

Or the fact we just don't give a shit about the worst Z chassis made...

no the S130 was the worse chassis made the Z31 was actually an improvement over the S130.

get cho facts straight "yo"

[jr_ss]

<~~~ drags knuckles on the ground... S12 brings out the worst.

[S12 Drifter]

Originally Posted by jr_ss

<~~~ drags knuckles on the ground... S12 brings out the worst.

S130 has a C.D of .38 as the S30 had a .48C.D aerodynamics were garbage, the Z31 has THE lowest of all the Z's. with a .29 for early models and .30 for the later models (87+), the N/A's i believe had a C.d of .31

to give you an idea the corvette C5 has a C.D of .33 and the GT-R has a CD of .26 the new 05+ C6 vettes have a CD of .35 or .34 LOL

Z31 was designed as a grand touring car just like the supra and Z32... suspension could use improvement.

LEARN YOUR FACTS!

[Mikester]

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

LEARN YOUR FACTS!

FACT: This topic has absolutely ZILCH to do with Corvettes, Z31's or GT-R's.

FACT: If my Aunt had a penis, she would be my favorite Uncle Barbara.

FACT: All things considered given the topic at hand, it would be much more economical for OP to stick with his KA.

FACT: I got a haircut yesterday.

FACT: No matter what you say at this point, nobody here is going to concede to any of your nonsense.

FACT: I appreciate free entertainment just as much as the next guy; but this is getting a bit silly...

Is that enough 'facts?'

[jr_ss]

Ooo I like this game.

Fact- I was refering to its garbage suspension.
Fact- I don't care about the Z31 chassis
Fact- this is way off topic

[mmmS13]

Originally Posted by 240boi115

although the nistune beats me but id rather run a motor that was meant for boost than one that needs to be prepped... and youre praying on your ka block holding up after 200k+ miles on it.

KA's dont need to be prepped to see boost. Im rocking a high mileage block (230k) with boost (50 trim 16psi) with no plans on rebuilding it anytime soon. No need to pray for KA blocks to hold up, they just need appropriate love and care.

[S12 Drifter]

"built for boost" i laugh at this statement because it shows ignorance.

the VG30DE IS NOT built for "boost" but yet some guy did NA2t with the 10.5:1 compression, e85 huge turbos, 1,700cc injectors etc etc and make 709 or 710 rwhp on the factory nissan pistons and rods. FOR OVER a year! more the 5k miles. he ripped it out not because it blew but because he finished his twin turbo motor. the N/A is still sitting in a corner in his shop, completely functional, still in working condition.

it's about your tune not about whether it came from the factory boosted or not.

[240boi115]

Originally Posted by mmmS13

KA's dont need to be prepped to see boost. Im rocking a high mileage block (230k) with boost (50 trim 16psi) with no plans on rebuilding it anytime soon. No need to pray for KA blocks to hold up, they just need appropriate love and care.

well when i think about it the cast iron block could hold it but ive seen so many go to shit(probably due to terrible tuning) that my opinion on a KA-T is to at least tear it down to see its internals.. if they look healthy then boost time.

Originally Posted by S12 Drifter

"built for boost" i laugh at this statement because it shows ignorance.

the VG30DE IS NOT built for "boost" but yet some guy did NA2t with the 10.5:1 compression, e85 huge turbos, 1,700cc injectors etc etc and make 709 or 710 rwhp on the factory nissan pistons and rods. FOR OVER a year! more the 5k miles. he ripped it out not because it blew but because he finished his twin turbo motor. the N/A is still sitting in a corner in his shop, completely functional, still in working condition.

it's about your tune not about whether it came from the factory boosted or not.

ok firts off i didnt say "built for boost" i said "meant to be boosted" and yes i think its logical to favor a motor that is already turbo powered rather than "make" one turbo powered.why? IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO SO!!!!! im not banging on the VG30DE though its a good motor to boost as is the KA24, and plenty of others...god who knew this thread would drag out this long

[ZenkiKid]

Originally Posted by Bmxer300zx

Why not just find a local ka24de for $200

Hah, in socal that would be next to impossible. I bought my kade for $150 like 4 years ago but it needed to be rebuilt.

[Bmxer300zx]

Originally Posted by ZenkiKid

Hah, in socal that would be next to impossible. I bought my kade for $150 like 4 years ago but it needed to be rebuilt.

Ha here isn't so bad it's strange prices of 240's are so high yet the parts are still cheap using forums and c-list.
I bought a ka24de complete trans, ecu and harness off a friend to do a sohc 2 dohc conversion for $500 138k, another person I know sold a sr20 block and head in good condition for $300 to swap in his fully built sr. My friend here in n.y sold his 121k engine, ecu, harness and acc for $250 I bought his trans for $150 lol. Actually I bought my mx83 with a sr20det for $1300 lol all it needed was a new turbo.
There's good deals just gota be ready to jump the second they pop up lol. That's the one thing I can say about a ka-t setup a new motor is only a c-list post/junkyard stop away lol