The Future Automotive Thread

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

GT350: ~3760lbs
E36 M3: ~3200lbs
Fiesta ST: ~2400lbs
New Supra: ~3400lbs
350z: ~3450lbs
M2: ~3600lbs
Cayman: ~2900lbs

It's the heaviest of the cars he mentioned.

I think Mel made a good point. Most of us on this forum are preferential towards a certain combination of attributes and that is, for the most part, lightwight and RWD. That was literally what the title of this thread actually used to be; which is also why from my memory of how this thread evolved since the beginning, the upcoming (at the time) FRS/BRZ twins were discussed so much because it COULD'VE ticked so many of our boxes. I love my E46 M3 vert and while it's a wonderful car, at the end of the day I definitely feel the weight during cornering and braking as opposed to my S13 along with friends' Miatas, S2000s, Civic Si, etc.

Camaro ZL1 is 3883 with a manual in coupe form, and out handles all of them. But even being the heaviest out of the bunch (which GM has negated with an absolutely fabulous platform and tuning) it PAILS in comparison to the 4451lb Challenger Hellcat. I mean that is a monster kid difference. A base 2wd Silverado weighs 4520.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

GT350: ~3760lbs
E36 M3: ~3200lbs
Fiesta ST: ~2400lbs
New Supra: ~3400lbs
350z: ~3450lbs
M2: ~3600lbs
Cayman: ~2900lbs

It's the heaviest of the cars he mentioned.

I think Mel made a good point. Most of us on this forum are preferential towards a certain combination of attributes and that is, for the most part, lightwight and RWD. That was literally what the title of this thread actually used to be; which is also why from my memory of how this thread evolved since the beginning, the upcoming (at the time) FRS/BRZ twins were discussed so much because it COULD'VE ticked so many of our boxes. I love my E46 M3 vert and while it's a wonderful car, at the end of the day I definitely feel the weight during cornering and braking as opposed to my S13 along with friends' Miatas, S2000s, Civic Si, etc.

Actually when I was talking about Z I was talking about S30 240Z not 350Z lol.
As far as the FiST goes they are actually the same weight of a S13 in the words of Mike Mamos when I showed him my FiST ?so basically you bought a FWD S13? lol

I actually did opt for the FiST over the BRZ and a lot of FiST owners have either had them (FRS/BRZ) or considered them. I should mention a few FiST owners have bought them as second cars. Lol
I too loved how my E36 M3?s drove but ya in the end you have no doubt you are driving a heavier car. The fact that it handles as well as it does its pretty great though. Its the wonders of modern suspension tech that heavier cars can handle so well. In the end I do not like boaty feeling cars and the larger they get the more that plays into psychological side of its bigger so it feels bigger.
I am really not a top down car guy so Miata?s and S2k unless having hard tops don?t figure into my equations.

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Camaro ZL1 is 3883 with a manual in coupe form, and out handles all of them. But even being the heaviest out of the bunch (which GM has negated with an absolutely fabulous platform and tuning) it PAILS in comparison to the 4451lb Challenger Hellcat. I mean that is a monster kid difference. A base 2wd Silverado weighs 4520.

May out handle but looks like hell in a handbasket from different vantage points i.e its an acquired taste in the looks department.
Challenger is another one of those “its so damn big” lol As a teenager I probably would have messed with one for fun for a minute but then tossed it because its a fricken 2 door Ocean liner.
I mean the GTR looks small in comparison

[Dutchmalmiss]

Right. Boaty feeling was what I was trying to point out haha.

Is there a weight version of "no replacement for displacement?"

Isn't a well-sorted lighter car always superior to a well-sorted heavier car? Not a rhetorical question, I'm curious as to what the answer(s) would be. Is that kind of discussion even a moot point?

I don't know I'm just rambling at this point haha. But we all have our defenses with our preferred cars. While I def respect the amount of tuning/engineering involved to get a 2ton brick to corner quickly, I'll still prefer a smaller/lighter chassis.

[TheRealSy90]

I mean, if you have two cars that run the same lap times, but one car is twice as heavy with twice the power and tire, which is a better car? (Obviously i'm generalizing).

I guess in that case I'd say the lighter car since it would physically use less resources to run those laps. Fuel, tires, brakes, etc.

[ronmcdon]

Yeah sure if cost is no issue, then of course all things equal lighter is better. problem is fast and light cars don't come in cheap. more power to you if you want to get a gt2rs or 720s

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

always have enjoyed owning more than one car. beaters dont have to be boring. have the suspension and tires set up on my civic where I can have fun on the canyons but not get in trouble. If I had more self control would get a bike as a daily. If I had to have one car would just keep my evo and call it a day. If it were something new today, I'd get a miata with a manual.

I suppose it depends on your lifestyle. I do a lot of snowboarding and camping so I love sporty cars with practicality


Maybe when I have a garage and no/low mortgage payment I can justify throwing $80k down for a single-purpose car.

[dorkidori_s13]

if only the rear seats folded down in an Evo, i would be all over one!!!!

stupid 2000s and their "pass thru" slots!

[exitspeed]

Rumor is the Stinger is getting the axe. Damn shame.

Crazy though that Hyundai is building a mid engine sports car.

[Future240]

Article on it
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/04/23/...lation-rumors/

[exitspeed]

C&D has a new render and article. No new details, but an ok new render.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...p/B_nfXCLFGqO/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

C&D has a new render and article. No new details, but an ok new render.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...p/B_nfXCLFGqO/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like it it does not look bad.

[DRIFTER-M]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

C&D has a new render and article. No new details, but an ok new render.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...p/B_nfXCLFGqO/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Less bubble, more sharpness -

But Overall, not bad!

[spooled240]

Looks like the Z that should have been out in 2014


We need more cowbell

[mechanicalmoron]

Looks like a hyundai from a decade or two ago.

Except the old hyundai is very low hanging fruit to repair, the new nissan is unfixable garbage.

[[240sx]]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

So this Christian guy's best guess at a future Z is a Toyota S-FR/Jaguar F-TYPE mashup? Car news must be desperate for material.


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[Dutchmalmiss]

That rear quarter is nice. Front looks like a Maserati, which I'm not TOO fond about, but overall, I can get with this. It's also just a render, in which case the S30-inspired one a few pages back was WAY nicer.

[mechanicalmoron]

You guys have no fucking standards....

Seriously? That's a compelling design for a future car? Will you eat ANY shit they serve you and call it ice cream?

I wouldn't blink if I saw that thing at the grocery store. Check out the hideous high decklid... great for loading milk in, though.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

You guys have no fucking standards....

Seriously? That's a compelling design for a future car? Will you eat ANY shit they serve you and call it ice cream?

I wouldn't blink if I saw that thing at the grocery store. Check out the hideous high decklid... great for loading milk in, though.

I didn?t say I was in love with the render, but it really doesn?t matter because it?s just an artist at C&D.

We can use common sense and things we know though to get an idea of how it?s going to look, at least proportionality. It?s still on the FM platform and will still somewhat resemble the Q60. This render at least has that down. As far as the details of this render, yeah it?s kinda boring. But one thing is this is obviously a render of a production car and not a wild concept.

I?d much rather it look like the other renders I?ve posted, but those all have proportions that don?t work with the FM platform.

And again, I?m not expecting a Lambo or some super car. There?s zero chance they go extreme with it because with the Q60 we kinda already have an idea.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

You guys have no fucking standards....

Seriously? That's a compelling design for a future car? Will you eat ANY shit they serve you and call it ice cream?

I wouldn't blink if I saw that thing at the grocery store. Check out the hideous high decklid... great for loading milk in, though.

Damn why so angry haha. Why don't you create a render yourself if you're so unhappy with the ones posted?

[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

Damn why so angry haha. Why don't you create a render yourself if you're so unhappy with the ones posted?

What does that even mean? You have no opinions, but you don't want anyone else to have them, either?

Lap it up, if it's your thing.

Originally Posted by exitspeed

I didn?t say I was in love with the render, but it really doesn?t matter because it?s just an artist at C&D.

We can use common sense and things we know though to get an idea of how it?s going to look, at least proportionality. It?s still on the FM platform and will still somewhat resemble the Q60. This render at least has that down. As far as the details of this render, yeah it?s kinda boring. But one thing is this is obviously a render of a production car and not a wild concept.

I?d much rather it look like the other renders I?ve posted, but those all have proportions that don?t work with the FM platform.

And again, I?m not expecting a Lambo or some super car. There?s zero chance they go extreme with it because with the Q60 we kinda already have an idea.

On one hand, that's all true and reasonable. On the other hand, the reason it's true and reasonable is that nissan is just not that into you.

This all just sounds like it's sounded for more than a decade: s13s and z32s are beautiful and exotic looking, compared to anything you can ever expect nissan to ever bust out with again.

We can't expect anything new and exciting for performance, we can't expect anything new and exciting for looks, and we can't expect anything cheap, so there's absolutely no reason to give them the time of day. Nissan has spent a long time trying not to offend anyone with their designs, and it's high time their chickens come home to roost.

Don't be an enabler, if you love someone you have to tell them the truth, act on it, and stick to your guns.

[exitspeed]

Oh I speak with my pocket book and I have un-enabled (not a word) them by going elsewhere. The last Nissan I owned was a brand new ‘14 Pathfinder (we had a ‘11 Murano before that). Horrible vehicle. Then they announced they weren’t moving forward with the IDX, which I planned on buying for a second car. I turned in the Pathfinder and they actually send me like an exit email. I unloaded on them about how disappointed I am with where the brand is going and said they wouldn’t get another dollar from me. I’m sure no one of importance saw it nor cared what some nobody in WI thought. However I continually leave comments on Nissans official social accounts along the same lines. And this thread has been going for over a decade where we have all said countless times how little faith we have in them making a compelling sports car. I mean I’m willing to talk about it, but I have no faith it’s going to be competitive.

[ronmcdon]

one must never lose hope!!

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

What does that even mean? You have no opinions, but you don't want anyone else to have them, either?

Lap it up, if it's your thing.

Opinions are great. We each have are own; difference is yours are an attack.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Nissan has traumatized its sports enthusiast market, and no one can be surprised that there aren't high hopes for what the final product will be. So if it delivers, great. My expectations are low anyway haha.

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Oh I speak with my pocket book and I have un-enabled (not a word) them by going elsewhere. The last Nissan I owned was a brand new ?14 Pathfinder (we had a ?11 Murano before that). Horrible vehicle. Then they announced they weren?t moving forward with the IDX, which I planned on buying for a second car. I turned in the Pathfinder and they actually send me like an exit email. I unloaded on them about how disappointed I am with where the brand is going and said they wouldn?t get another dollar from me. I?m sure no one of importance saw it nor cared what some nobody in WI thought. However I continually leave comments on Nissans official social accounts along the same lines. And this thread has been going for over a decade where we have all said countless times how little faith we have in them making a compelling sports car. I mean I?m willing to talk about it, but I have no faith it?s going to be competitive.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

one must never lose hope!!

I genuinely have not faith in Nissan. I had zero faith BEFORE Covid, adding that to the mix and they?re barely going to survive. I feel like it?s only a matter of time before we hear that the Z is delayed for a significant amount of time or indefinitely and the GTR stops production.

Unless, they go the route that I outlined and they dedicate selves to making niche cars for car people like Mazda.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by mechanicalmoron

This all just sounds like it's sounded for more than a decade: s13s and z32s are beautiful and exotic looking, compared to anything you can ever expect nissan to ever bust out with again.

Ok I cannot let this fly. The S13 was a somewhat boring design it was in fact much like the design above in it did not look bad and was definitely a tone downed look. it took cues from the Mid4 that looked awesome ( but Ferrari screamed at Nissan about the Mid4) Which was the car everyone really wanted to see.
In effect compared to the 240Z the S13 was a bit of a yawn. its whole rear quarter as was designed was a bit nondescript lines wise. The Kouki tail design definitely helped but that did not happen till 1996.5
. The Z32 was a bit polarizing while you may think it looked great a lot thought it looked like a squished bull frog.
It again did not look bad but was nowhere near as nice as both the RX7 FD and the NSX both those cars looked phenomenal.
The FD winning in the pure bueatiful sports car swoopy lines and a classic look department.
The NSX in the wow a mid engined Japanese Ferrari its surprising that Honda pulled it off after the whole kicking and screaming that went on between Nissan and Ferrari over the mid4.

Yet n the end truth be told while the Z32 and S13 did not look bad they were not Iconically special in comparision to some of Nissans past cars in the looks department. In performance? Well that they were but looks were just ok .

So for you to hold up them as something better than that current render well no not really that current render actually carries on in Nissans last 30 odd years of designs that were not bad but not all out stunning. it looks nice enough but could look better no doubt .

[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Ok I cannot let this fly. The S13 was a somewhat boring design it was in fact much like the design above in it did not look bad and was definitely a tone downed look. it took cues from the Mid4 that looked awesome ( but Ferrari screamed at Nissan about the Mid4) Which was the car everyone really wanted to see.
In effect compared to the 240Z the S13 was a bit of a yawn. its whole rear quarter as was designed was a bit nondescript lines wise. The Kouki tail design definitely helped but that did not happen till 1996.5
. The Z32 was a bit polarizing while you may think it looked great a lot thought it looked like a squished bull frog.
It again did not look bad but was nowhere near as nice as both the RX7 FD and the NSX both those cars looked phenomenal.
The FD winning in the pure bueatiful sports car swoopy lines and a classic look department.
The NSX in the wow a mid engined Japanese Ferrari its surprising that Honda pulled it off after the whole kicking and screaming that went on between Nissan and Ferrari over the mid4.

Yet n the end truth be told while the Z32 and S13 did not look bad they were not Iconically special in comparision to some of Nissans past cars in the looks department. In performance? Well that they were but looks were just ok .

So for you to hold up them as something better than that current render well no not really that current render actually carries on in Nissans last 30 odd years of designs that were not bad but not all out stunning. it looks nice enough but could look better no doubt .

You. Are. Right.

240z is a whole different league, in my opinion. But early 90s nissans are a whole different league from this crap.

I'm not holding up an s13 as the pinnacle of sports car styling or anything (yeah, it's got weird flat spots on the quarters, and all sorts of little issues), but I think (maybe just because of when I was a little kid) they still look pretty neat. The z32 isn't for everyone, but at least they stepped out and did it.

[ghost_silvia]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

if only the rear seats folded down in an Evo, i would be all over one!!!!

stupid 2000s and their "pass thru" slots!

Get a ralliart sportback! I love mine got it for a steal at an auction. 70k miles $3750.

[exitspeed]

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/05/04/...ta-supra-news/

Again, to reiterate about Toyota and BMW’s relationship, yes they are working together still but only at the upper levels of design. Everything else is developed independently from each other.

[ronmcdon]

new 86 might get a turbo. hopefully it’ll pan out

https://www.motortrend.com/news/future-cars-toyota-86/