Girl calls 911 for father and is arrested by cop for cursing.

[murda-c]

Cops have only been helpful to me.

Had one help me change a tire once.

Been pulled for speeding, gotten tickets a couple times, a warning once, never any hassle.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Hrm, it's wierd there was an actual police officer (a sergeant, no less) answering 911 calls. I'm sure Lincoln Park (chicago?) isn't a huge city . . . but to have a ranking officer on desk duty answering emergency calls?

The California counties that I've worked in have dedicated 911 operators who are not police, but instead are trained solely in how to take an emergency call, dispatch the appropriate response, and record as much detail as possible for future retrieval. It should have been obvious that anything said would be kept on the databanks and pulled out for examination.


They say the sergeant was a 20-year vet, but I wonder if he was even trained at dispatch.

Apparently not, he was suspended for 2 weeks without pay and apparently ordered to go to a training of some sort.

[OptionZero]

Could be they meant "counseling," like anger management.

They also mentioned zero previous disciplinary reports and lots of commendations - that's kinda telling, I think any cop will have some sort of citizen complaint filed against him after 20 years of service.

Perhaps the dude was having a shitty day himself (family prob? health prob?) and this was the sad intersection of two parties at the worst of times. It's not an excuse, but an explanation.

[ronmcdon]

seems more likely than not that the PD is covering up (and not really doing such a great job).

Having the officer screw up is one thing.
Having the whole PD and chief of police back him up like this is the worst offense here imo.
The one thing I hate most of all about police is that they almost always cover up for each other, right or wrong.

It's like the civil lawsuit is the only means of accountability there is against police.
and even then it's not like the said offenders are paying out of their own pocket.

About the said cop not trained to operate calls appropriately,
yes I think that's valid.
it also further goes to show, that it speaks poorly about the PD.
At this point I'm more inclined to say the fault lies within the PD's inept management of training and taking the appropriate disciplinary, rather than the actual cop in question.
If the PD continues to be managed the way it is, what is there to prevent the same incident from occurring again?
PD in question just lacks accountability period.

[aoiken3]

imo, this particular cop was a dick. the girl is partially to blame for not being able to control her words but due to the fact that the situation was a serious life threatening one, she has a reason for overreacting and cussing up a storm. this cop should be fired

[ronmcdon]

Yeah the cop was dick.
Better question is why he is able to get away being dick.
Better question is whether or not the ppl above him are doing their jobs.

[VROOOM]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Could be they meant "counseling," like anger management.

They also mentioned zero previous disciplinary reports and lots of commendations - that's kinda telling, I think any cop will have some sort of citizen complaint filed against him after 20 years of service.

Perhaps the dude was having a shitty day himself (family prob? health prob?) and this was the sad intersection of two parties at the worst of times. It's not an excuse, but an explanation.

his shitty day could have cost someone thier life. the police are there to help people at the worst of times. thats thier job, there is no excuse.

[OptionZero]

I never said there was. I only said there was an explanation.

As for lack of accountability . . did you guys even watch the whole vid? Two week suspension w/o pay, presumably that goes on his record that will make future punishments exponentially worse, he's been publicly called out, his boss fully admitted that the dude fucked up; the city will no doubt be paying the family a substantial sum of money in the settlement.

What more do you want, a cut of the money?

[VROOOM]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

I never said there was. I only said there was an explanation.

As for lack of accountability . . did you guys even watch the whole vid? Two week suspension w/o pay, presumably that goes on his record that will make future punishments exponentially worse, he's been publicly called out, his boss fully admitted that the dude fucked up; the city will no doubt be paying the family a substantial sum of money in the settlement.

What more do you want, a cut of the money?

id want him fired. i would get fired from my job if i screwed up that much and peoples lives dont depend on my job.

[OptionZero]

Have you been working as a public servant in a generally high-risk, high-stress job for 20 years with no negative reports and many positive reports?

If yes, then I think you deserve to get punished but keep your job.

If no, then here's your pink slip.


Now, if he were sufficiently old and didn't want to take any counseling or reassignment, then a quiet retirement might be in order.

[iRONDONkey]

cops take calls now?

[JVD]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Have you been working as a public servant in a generally high-risk, high-stress job for 20 years with no negative reports and many positive reports?

If yes, then I think you deserve to get punished but keep your job.

If no, then here's your pink slip.

Disagree.

If you're dense enough to hang up on a young girl, who clearly needs help, you shouldn't be working as a police officer. Simple as that.

It doesn't matter if he had a bad day/stressful week/whatever. THAT'S HIS JOB. He put someone's life at risk and he gets to take a break from work for a couple weeks.

Yes, that makes tons of sense.

[YoungGun]

My friend just sent me this.

I wish he got fired, only suspended for 2 weeks COME ON!!!

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

I never said there was. I only said there was an explanation.

As for lack of accountability . . did you guys even watch the whole vid? Two week suspension w/o pay, presumably that goes on his record that will make future punishments exponentially worse, he's been publicly called out, his boss fully admitted that the dude fucked up; the city will no doubt be paying the family a substantial sum of money in the settlement.

What more do you want, a cut of the money?

What the officer did was unforgivable, especially given the importance of his responsibility.
We're dealing with 'life & death' situations here, not crappy tech support.
I do think the officer should have been fired at the VERY LEAST.
Personally, I don't think criminal charges should be out of the question either.
The officer should be charged with reckless endangerment.

"Reckless endangerment: A person commits the crime of reckless endangerment if the person recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. “Reckless” conduct is conduct that exhibits a culpable disregard of foreseeable consequences to others from the act or omission involved. The accused need not intentionally cause a resulting harm or know that his conduct is substantially certain to cause that result. The ultimate question is whether, under all the circumstances, the accused’s conduct was of that heedless nature that made it actually or imminently dangerous to the rights or safety of others."

you could also looking at accountability with regards to the said's PD's mismanagement.
Now if the PD laid all blame to the cop, claimed said cop was NOT following existing procedure, fired the cop & laid all blame on the officer, that would have probably been fine for the PD.
At least the PD is covering their own ass semi competently.

By admitting they did wrong, and then give the cop 2 weeks suspension without pay, it's pretty much like saying yeah they screwed up & they're really not doing much about it.
Worst of all, the PD isn't taking any measures to prevent similar incidences from occurring again.

With regards to a civil lawsuit, assuming there is an actual settlement, who pays for that?

What I would like to see is:
Have both the officer and police chief fired.
Have a criminal & civil charges directed at officer,
Have civil charges against the PD.
Have the PD come with a clear reinforced procedure to take 911 calls, revealed to the public.
Establish clear cut consequences for deviation from the policies, also revealed to the public.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

"Reckless endangerment: A person commits the crime of reckless endangerment if the person recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. “Reckless” conduct is conduct that exhibits a culpable disregard of foreseeable consequences to others from the act or omission involved. The accused need not intentionally cause a resulting harm or know that his conduct is substantially certain to cause that result. The ultimate question is whether, under all the circumstances, the accused’s conduct was of that heedless nature that made it actually or imminently dangerous to the rights or safety of others."

That's why it would be difficult to sustain a claim.

As for people that want him fired, I suppose that's your own judgment call, and you've made up your minds already.

The cop fucked up, but it also seems like he's done a considerable amount of good work.

I'm pretty wary of seemingly knee-jerk reactions.

[aziankingz]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

Have you been working as a public servant in a generally high-risk, high-stress job for 20 years with no negative reports and many positive reports?

If yes, then I think you deserve to get punished but keep your job.

If no, then here's your pink slip.


Now, if he were sufficiently old and didn't want to take any counseling or reassignment, then a quiet retirement might be in order.

Are you serious? Have you heard of professionalism? high-risk, high stress, etc (they were trained for that and knew what they signed up for).. doesnt even factor in to this situation - he is taking a fucking emergency call and he couldnt even do that right.. seriously, if you were that fucking father on the floor seizing out, would you put your life in his hands again? Think about it, that father can have another seizure any day now.. All it takes is one fuck up... this is someones life youre talking about here..this isnt something as simple as flipping burgers or taking orders at a restaurant..

[smellslikecurry]

prolonged seizures may cause brain damage.


id sue them just based on that alone.

[HyperTek]

The thing is a life was at risk during this time!!


He must have had a bad day or in a bad mood from prior calls that day... I used to work phones and yeah people can put you in a bad mood, but he should know better then that and leave that whatever shit behind.

But yeah, cops dont tolerate bad language, esp if you come off pissed, they will take the higher ground to control the situation.

[Bubbles]

Are you the girl with the foul mouth?


Fuck yeah!
Are you the dick that's gonna let my dad die over it?




Sergent, help us understand, what the FUCK were you thinking?

I mean..........what the FUCK..........were you thinking?

[Phlip]

See, this is the thing...
Yes, the girl cursed and if this were something like a traffic stop or domestic disturbance then SURE, do what you must about the cursing.
But it wasn't...
It was a FUCKING 911 CALL!!!
You, if allowed to answer these calls, should have been trained to either suspend disagreements with such behaviors or do something else instead. Suppose that man died or (as the Pharm student above mentioned) suffered irreversible brain damage as a result of his inability to get help because some dickhole cop hung up on his daughter. Does his 20 year spotless record exonerate him, or does his ABANDONING that history in favor of hot-headed stupidity further damn him?
In the world I live in, this motherfucker should see more than 2 weeks suspension and having to go through training. I cannot be assured that he won't do some shit like this moving forward.

And where the fuck did this happen?
Seriously, most major municipalities have METICULOUSLY trained reps to handle these calls, not a cop who likely has other things to do as well.

[OptionZero]

Originally Posted by aziankingz

Are you serious? Have you heard of professionalism? high-risk, high stress, etc (they were trained for that and knew what they signed up for).. doesnt even factor in to this situation - he is taking a fucking emergency call and he couldnt even do that right.. seriously, if you were that fucking father on the floor seizing out, would you put your life in his hands again? Think about it, that father can have another seizure any day now.. All it takes is one fuck up... this is someones life youre talking about here..this isnt something as simple as flipping burgers or taking orders at a restaurant..

I never said the cop was blameless. I said the cop should be punished but keep his job, given his past record.

For those of you calling for the cop's head, would you be equally supportive of changing sentencing schemes to ignore an individual's record (either a checkered one or a spotless one)?

You are correct that he is not flipping burgers. Even the courts have recognized that cops are expected to show thicker skin than an ordinary person in confrontational situations . . .

. . . but by the same token, his quality record is not 20 years of flipping burgers well, it's 20 years of policing well. You're going to give him zero slack because the situation demanded a higher standard, but you're going to ignore how he responded to those same situations before? Can't have it both ways.

If we're so sick of "bad cops," why are we so quick to throw away one that, for 20 years, has been a good one?


If this cop is willing to take responsibility for his actions, let him keep his job with the punishment and a reassignment. If he isn't, well, then, see ya.

[VROOOM]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

For those of you calling for the cop's head, would you be equally supportive of changing sentencing schemes to ignore an individual's record (either a checkered one or a spotless one)?

he wouldnt be thrown in jail. he would be losing his job, this happens when you screw up at your job.

[J ROK]

Baffoon!

[JVD]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

I never said the cop was blameless. I said the cop should be punished but keep his job, given his past record.

For those of you calling for the cop's head, would you be equally supportive of changing sentencing schemes to ignore an individual's record (either a checkered one or a spotless one)?

You are correct that he is not flipping burgers. Even the courts have recognized that cops are expected to show thicker skin than an ordinary person in confrontational situations . . .

. . . but by the same token, his quality record is not 20 years of flipping burgers well, it's 20 years of policing well. You're going to give him zero slack because the situation demanded a higher standard, but you're going to ignore how he responded to those same situations before? Can't have it both ways.

If we're so sick of "bad cops," why are we so quick to throw away one that, for 20 years, has been a good one?


If this cop is willing to take responsibility for his actions, let him keep his job with the punishment and a reassignment. If he isn't, well, then, see ya.

What if the father died because of this officers negligence? Then what?

If you can't handle someone cursing, you're fucking pathetic at your job. You should not be able to answer 911 calls if you can't deal with cursing.

Simple as that.

Can you imagine what it would be like to see your father convulsing on the ground and having the authorities HANG UP on you? Yeah, you'd probably curse more too.

[OptionZero]

It's never "as simple as that." We do not know why the cop reacted the way he did; you are merely assuming it's because he's a deuschebag. If that were the case, there is way he works 20 years as a cop without a single complaint. You think in 20 years, no one's sworn at him before? Yet there is no record in two decades of any irrational response like we saw today.

I cannot imagine what it would be like to see my dad die as as authorities hung up on me, but i'm not pretending to; likewise, I am not saying that at 17, I would have acted better than the girl did. I maintain, instead, any response to the cop's actions be a measured one, rather than a knee-jerk, reactionary one done with no investigation or consideration of all the information.

We aren't supposed to sentence criminal defendants on a whim; we look at the circumstances of the crime and the background of the offender and select the applicable punishment. I have never said the cop shouldn't be punished, I have instead said he shouldn't lose his job if he takes responsibility.

[ESmorz]

Lynch Mob.

Lynch Mob.
Lynch Mob.

l l l l l l l Lynch Mob.

[JVD]

Pretty lazy, so I'll make it short.

I have nothing against cops.

I have something against cops who aren't fit to do their duties. He hung up on a 911 call. Let's get serious... regardless of ANY other circumstances, that should never happen.

When you're in a position where it can cost lives... you can NEVER make that mistake, no matter what your previous record is.

<3 u option0

[gotta240]

The funny thing is, it is a FELONY to obstruct a 911 call (that is, if a citizen does it)

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

"Reckless endangerment: A person commits the crime of reckless endangerment if the person recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person. “Reckless” conduct is conduct that exhibits a culpable disregard of foreseeable consequences to others from the act or omission involved. The accused need not intentionally cause a resulting harm or know that his conduct is substantially certain to cause that result. The ultimate question is whether, under all the circumstances, the accused’s conduct was of that heedless nature that made it actually or imminently dangerous to the rights or safety of others."


That's why it would be difficult to sustain a claim.

Please elaborate. (sorry if i wasn't entirely accurate with the bolds)
What circumstances in particular do you feel would excuse the officer for his misconduct?

Unless you can bring up additional rationale to defend the cop (which would be interesting for discussion),
I don't feel that the given circumstances would have been sufficient justification to excuse the officer's misconduct.
All the girl did was say the "f" word.
Is that such terrible provocation?
In response, the officer put the girl's father in a life threatening situation.
when speaking to the dispatch, officer was more concerned about expressing having taken offense at the profanity than to save the guy's life.
he obviously felt the need to vent was more important than doing his job & saving a man's life.

Yeah the said officer has had a number of positive commendations,
but that doesn't make him any less guilty of the mistake he made this time.
His positive and long record could be used against him if anything.
If it follows that the officer is an accomplished veteran of the force, he should theoretically be more than prepared NOT to loose his cool over some teenage girl blurting out profanities, in panic.
The officer's conduct was unbecoming of a professional.

I don't think it's fair for you to say our opposition to the said cop is a 'knee jerk reaction'
I think as long as we are reasonable in our assessment of the situation, it's ok to form opinions.
The evidence here seems pretty reliable, and it's definitely not in the cop's favor.
Last nail in the coffin was when the police chief admitted that cop was at fault.

In all fairness, both parties were at fault.
However, I'd like to think we hold 911 operators to a higher standard than random teenagers.
On another level, I'd also like to think we hold PD's to a higher standard than individual officers.

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by OptionZero

It's never "as simple as that." We do not know why the cop reacted the way he did; you are merely assuming it's because he's a deuschebag. If that were the case, there is way he works 20 years as a cop without a single complaint. You think in 20 years, no one's sworn at him before? Yet there is no record in two decades of any irrational response like we saw today.

I cannot imagine what it would be like to see my dad die as as authorities hung up on me, but i'm not pretending to; likewise, I am not saying that at 17, I would have acted better than the girl did. I maintain, instead, any response to the cop's actions be a measured one, rather than a knee-jerk, reactionary one done with no investigation or consideration of all the information.

We aren't supposed to sentence criminal defendants on a whim; we look at the circumstances of the crime and the background of the offender and select the applicable punishment. I have never said the cop shouldn't be punished, I have instead said he shouldn't lose his job if he takes responsibility.

The thing is, between the video and the statement given by the police chief,
we're only told of the positive conduct the officer received in the past 20 yrs.
That info is inconclusive at best with regards to evaluating the said officer's overall conduct, because it doesn't include any at all bad.
Seems biased, that no negatives were mentioned at all.

Also, the fact the officer didn't get in trouble prior means little, given the current circumstances.
If the PD is only willing to give a slap on the wrist for the existing incident, it's difficult to have any faith at all in their sense of judgment and disciplinary measures.
The cop could have been doing the same thing all along.
Without the media coverage of this incident and/or an intent to sue, its not inconceivable that all prior victims would have been simply ignored by the PD.