Tomei Procam Cam Gear Question - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

hanzbrady · 03-08-2016, 04:40 PM

Hey guys, I hate to make a whole post for a single question, but I was just wondering if the Tomei 270 lash Procams can be used with stock cam gears or require adjustable gears?

KAT-PWR · 03-08-2016, 04:42 PM

Cam degreeing is a tricky subject. I would assume you can drop in a cam timed like stock and it will do okay (I'd be willing to bet like 75% of people with cam gears are simply for show and the cam is in stock position). Shaving head/block etc will slightly change where the valve timing events occur, this is where a degree wheel and adjustable cam gears come into play. Then after degreeing the cams according to your cam card, you can dyno and adjust advance/retard for intake/exhaust to maximize the effects of the cam for your purpose.

EDIT: Sorry I don't think that's the info you needed haha.

hanzbrady · 03-08-2016, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAT-PWR

Cam degreeing is a tricky subject. I would assume you can drop in a cam timed like stock and it will do okay (I'd be willing to bet like 75% of people with cam gears are simply for show and the cam is in stock position). Shaving head/block etc will slightly change where the valve timing events occur, this is where a degree wheel and adjustable cam gears come into play. Then after degreeing the cams according to your cam card, you can dyno and adjust advance/retard for intake/exhaust to maximize the effects of the cam for your purpose.

See the thing is that I'm not looking for massive dyno numbers. The car is being built for a general weekend street car. I think I might just try calling Tomei USA to get an answer. It doesn't specify in the install instructions or in any forum I've searched.

Kingtal0n · 03-09-2016, 05:07 PM

Kinda silly to use a solid lifter in anything you intend to drive on the street, and especially in a small displacement engine you intend to daily drive.
also pretty damn silly to use adjustable cam gears in the same kind of car.

ask me why

hanzbrady · 03-09-2016, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

Kinda silly to use a solid lifter in anything you intend to drive on the street, and especially in a small displacement engine you intend to daily drive.
also pretty damn silly to use adjustable cam gears in the same kind of car.

ask me why

Well guess it's pretty nifty I ordered the hydraulic cams then right? The reason that I'm asking the cam gear question is solely because the poncams are a 100% drop in affair as far as the gears are concerned and I was wondering if the procams were the same because it's not otherwise stated.

TheRealSy90 · 03-10-2016, 02:05 PM

Only cams I know of that NEED cam gears are BC cams.

hanzbrady · 03-10-2016, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Only cams I know of that NEED cam gears are BC cams.

I've also heard that. And my general understanding of valve timing and degree'ing camshafts ( which I will admit is not much) tells me that running the stock gears basically just locks you into the OEM timing within some sense to try and simplify it?

Kingtal0n · 03-10-2016, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Only cams I know of that NEED cam gears are BC cams.

I have BC cams in an sr20det engine now, fully built rod/piston too, gorgeous power curve is smooth and straight like an arrow, perfect, with stock cam gears. They are old too, like 2006.

Who told you that BC cams need gears? Furthermore, what makes you think that a "straight up" setting is going to improve performance any?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanzbrady

I've also heard that. And my general understanding of valve timing and degree'ing camshafts ( which I will admit is not much) tells me that running the stock gears basically just locks you into the OEM timing within some sense to try and simplify it?

You dont want adj cam gears on an sr20det application for two.5 reasons
1. another point of failure to fall apart or get loose. Last thing you want to do is add moving/adjustable parts to a valvetrain, any valvetrain, unless absolutely necessary.
2. Adjusting them requires cycles of abuse/dyno time, and the power gains are minimal for a 2.0L < 400rwhp
2.5 If you want more than 400rwhp you are using the wrong engine to begin with, for [dollar : power] there are much better engines available to us (unless you have a personal reason to stick with the sr)

TheRealSy90 · 03-10-2016, 03:02 PM

Maybe it's just the Brian crower 272's, but the centerline on them is off, they will run fine with stock gears. But you won't get the most out of their potential until you degree them with adjustable gears.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cotbu · 03-10-2016, 05:07 PM

The procams drops in with OEM gears
Just like any decent can design unless stated.

BC 272 cams was always shitty, and had to be used with cam gears, then we found out why. Then a batch of 264s came out that also were garbage. So I tell everyone to stay away from the BC stuff, but its hard to resist a sale, under 350 for both cams even if they are poo70poos

hanzbrady · 03-10-2016, 05:24 PM

Thank you for all of the feed back guys! I'll run the stock gears and if I get daring one day I might try the adjustables to squeeze out extra power, but for now I think the rest of my set up will carry the motor a long just fine. And since I never actually listed the engine build,

Wiseco 86.50 9:1 Pistons
Manley Turbo Tuff rods
Turbonetics t3 .64 A/R 50 trim turbo
Ported and CNC'd head/combustion chambers
BC springs and retainers
Dual guide conversion
All the new oem goodies and all the other necessary goodies.

That's a pretty basic list but it's enough to justify the cam choice (my were trash anyways) and I know it's a bit overkill for a weekend car but it's fun to me to build engines and know hat I can safely make the power I want with room to grow.

Dillinja666 · 03-11-2016, 10:26 AM

Nothing wrong with learning something new. Cam timing is a dark art. The old school methodologies with turbo cars that less overlap is better no longer applies because turbo technology has gotten so much better. If money and time are not an issue for you get a set of cam gear and start with the cams straight up. If you get bored one weekend start advancing your intake cam a couple degrees and drive it and see how you like it. Once you find a happy spot where you like how the car performs do the same thing but retarding the exhaust. Remember with the exhaust cam you're going to have to reset ignition timing because the cam position sensor. Messing with cam timing on these motors is easy, and if you end up hating it you can always go back to straight up and you're only out the cost of the gears.

03-08-2016, 04:40 PM	#1
hanzbrady Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Floriduh Posts: 1,166 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Tomei Procam Cam Gear Question Hey guys, I hate to make a whole post for a single question, but I was just wondering if the Tomei 270 lash Procams can be used with stock cam gears or require adjustable gears? __________________ [email protected]

03-08-2016, 04:42 PM	#2
KAT-PWR Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: US Posts: 2,040 Trader Rating: (11) Rides Gallery: KAT-PWR Feedback Score: 11 reviews	Cam degreeing is a tricky subject. I would assume you can drop in a cam timed like stock and it will do okay (I'd be willing to bet like 75% of people with cam gears are simply for show and the cam is in stock position). Shaving head/block etc will slightly change where the valve timing events occur, this is where a degree wheel and adjustable cam gears come into play. Then after degreeing the cams according to your cam card, you can dyno and adjust advance/retard for intake/exhaust to maximize the effects of the cam for your purpose. EDIT: Sorry I don't think that's the info you needed haha. __________________ MRP Manufacturing

03-10-2016, 05:07 PM	#10
cotbu Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SWFL Age: 49 Posts: 3,318 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	The procams drops in with OEM gears Just like any decent can design unless stated. BC 272 cams was always shitty, and had to be used with cam gears, then we found out why. Then a batch of 264s came out that also were garbage. So I tell everyone to stay away from the BC stuff, but its hard to resist a sale, under 350 for both cams even if they are poo70poos __________________ LoverTechnologies "Half Broken Things!"

03-10-2016, 05:24 PM	#11
hanzbrady Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Floriduh Posts: 1,166 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Thank you for all of the feed back guys! I'll run the stock gears and if I get daring one day I might try the adjustables to squeeze out extra power, but for now I think the rest of my set up will carry the motor a long just fine. And since I never actually listed the engine build, Wiseco 86.50 9:1 Pistons Manley Turbo Tuff rods Turbonetics t3 .64 A/R 50 trim turbo Ported and CNC'd head/combustion chambers BC springs and retainers Dual guide conversion All the new oem goodies and all the other necessary goodies. That's a pretty basic list but it's enough to justify the cam choice (my were trash anyways) and I know it's a bit overkill for a weekend car but it's fun to me to build engines and know hat I can safely make the power I want with room to grow. __________________ [email protected]

03-09-2016, 05:07 PM	#4
Kingtal0n Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: South Florida Age: 41 Posts: 4,828 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	Kinda silly to use a solid lifter in anything you intend to drive on the street, and especially in a small displacement engine you intend to daily drive. also pretty damn silly to use adjustable cam gears in the same kind of car. ask me why

03-11-2016, 10:26 AM	#12
Dillinja666 Leaky Injector Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: San Diego Age: 42 Posts: 56 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Nothing wrong with learning something new. Cam timing is a dark art. The old school methodologies with turbo cars that less overlap is better no longer applies because turbo technology has gotten so much better. If money and time are not an issue for you get a set of cam gear and start with the cams straight up. If you get bored one weekend start advancing your intake cam a couple degrees and drive it and see how you like it. Once you find a happy spot where you like how the car performs do the same thing but retarding the exhaust. Remember with the exhaust cam you're going to have to reset ignition timing because the cam position sensor. Messing with cam timing on these motors is easy, and if you end up hating it you can always go back to straight up and you're only out the cost of the gears.