coilover thread to end it all

[Aoshi112]

Originally Posted by keioffice

so they are saying that koni shocks are better than any of the japanese coilovers??? that doesnt make sense.

Pretty much. If you actually read the rest of Dennis Grant's page you'd understand why.

[Aoshi112]

Originally Posted by x'ed

like which ones?

10. Shocks that adjusted rebound and compression in lockstep, but had so much compression that backing them down to reasonable levels made rebound way too soft (very common with the Japanese brands like GAB, JIC, Tein, etc)

I posted this in another thread but i'll post it again:

Where there's no Bilstein fitment and Penskes are too expensive, Konis are usually perfectly adaquate. They are, by far, the best budget shock and better than any of the crap coming out of Japan. JIC, GAB, Tokiko, Tein - synonyms for "crap".


-Jason

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by keioffice

so they are saying that koni shocks are better than any of the japanese coilovers??? that doesnt make sense.

It makes perfect sense. Koni has been in the racing game for close to 50 years, with a lot of involvement in F1.

[Wiisass]

I really want to adapt Koni's FSD to an s-chassis. It's going be next after getting the Bilstein project tested and ready for marketing. I wasn't sure about it at first, but it's really an good way to look at damping and when it's needed.

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by Wiisass

I really want to adapt Koni's FSD to an s-chassis. It's going be next after getting the Bilstein project tested and ready for marketing. I wasn't sure about it at first, but it's really an good way to look at damping and when it's needed.

It looks as though the primary piston is a normal shim stack type, but I'm not sure if you could tune the FSD valve.... it'd be an interesting project, though (one that I'd love to help test and tune ).

I'm really looking forward to the completion of your Bilstein project, and to doing a mini shock shootout :P

[Wiisass]

I think you're right about the shim stack on the piston, but it might be setup a lot stiffer than a normal shim stack and used as more of a blow off valve than anything else. And most of the damping is controlled with the FSD valve. But I'm not sure, I need to find that article again, the stuff on Koni's website it too dumbed down to really get anything out of it. Or maybe I just can't find the original stuff that was up there. Who knows, navigating through koni's million different websites is a skill that I have lost.

But you're right, I need to get the Bilstein's done so we can do our shootout. If I keep thinking of different ideas, I'm never going to get it done. Next thing I'll be talking about is those 4-way adjustable ZF Sachs rally dampers and trying to get them onto a 240. But that's for another time.

I just wish the 240 was as easy as the supra. You really need to let me know next time you're down in this area and I'll let you drive that thing around for a little. It will give you a little sneak peak of what the S13 Bilsteins are going to feel like.

[AceInHole]

I might end up in Warminster if they have a race before the end of the year, and I think Philly has a winter season, as well. I'd probably be in the G, though.

Also, I'm wondering if Koni's FSD system is similar to Moton's blow-off valve system. It seems as though FSD is more complicated, as though it goes by frequency/ cycle speed rather than piston velocity.

[Wiisass]

I think the Warminster Autox might have been last weekend, but I don't know if there's more.

The thing with FSD, when I look at Koni's site, it just screams marketing BS. But the article I read in Racecar engineering actually explained how it worked better and made it sound more beneficial. Or maybe they're just doing a better job marketing to people that know what they're talking about.

From Koni's website, it looks like a preloaded foot valve. Nothing new or crazy, it's all been done before. And I guess it could be simlply that but with an extra bell or whistle thrown in somewhere. I need to find that article and reread it, see if there's something I'm not thinking of. But if it does act like it seems based on their site, then it would be similar to a blow off valve. I mean, the idea of the blow off valve in the damper isn't really anything new. Any digressive shock has it in some form or another. There's a bleed and when the bleed gets saturated, the big shim bends and releases pressure, but it really doesn't realease pressure, it just opens up a bigger passage for the fluid to travel through.

Who knows, Koni could've just done a Laplace transform on some dyno plots and came up with this theory and sent it to the marketing guys and told them to run with it. But I thought there was something more there. Oh well, I'll find the article later and let you know if I think of anything else.

But if it is just a blow off valve, then I take back my previous statement about fitting it on an S13 and will move on to the ZF Sachs stuff because it's so awesome that no one even knows about them.

Oh, one thing I noticed that was weird is on Koni's site, they have animation, and they have on where they pretend to run the shock on a dyno at different frequencies and amplitudes so they can keep the peak velocity the same. But on the plots, rebound is changing with frequency changes rather than compression. But the animation shows how the valve reacts based on compression movement and pressures. And I would assume that it would affect compression more than rebound because by lowering compression damping forces, you are lowering the percentage of force that gets transmitted to the chassis. But then again, high rebound forces can also create a harsh ride, but I would still think the focus would be on compression.

[AceInHole]

Found this on a bimmer forum

Originally from: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...1&d=1133330065

I wonder if the valve acting in compression is what affects rebound. Depending on the time between compression and rebound, damping would be different (i.e. if the direction of travel changes before the valve fully opens or closes, with varying damping between depending on the frequency of change).

They also list the FSD shock as being used on the McLaren-Mercedes Vodafone F1 car. It doesn't seem to be complete hype...

[monkeyslide17]

Does anyone know the reviews on the d2 coilovers? been looking but cant seem to find any thing on them. alittile but of info would be nice thanks..

[ZX88]

Originally Posted by monkeyslide17

Does anyone know the reviews on the d2 coilovers? been looking but cant seem to find any thing on them. alittile but of info would be nice thanks..

d2s are basically k sports same shock im pretty sure. they also have the same spring rate 9/7 so pretty bearable for daily driving.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t319737.html
googled it and this came up

[initial_drifter]

Anyone ever run on Ikeya Formula, Moton, or Ohlins?

[fakingdeath]

no mention of the RSR coils?

[BRB26]

Alot of the JDM coilovers are manufactured in Taiwan, but I know for a fact that All Tanabe products are designed and manufatured in Japan. KYB manufacures the dampers for Tanabe.

[fd3s14]

i didnt know ksport was that bad

[low and slow]

subscribed, and + rep

[smelly240]

it depends what ksports u get - there are kontrol (cheapies) gt pros (inverted fronts), circuit pros (i think they have remote res), and slide kontrols. -- the cheapies are well... cheapies.

Why is PBM in the 1100-1500? arent those 900?

I think that some people are biased towards their kind of motorsport - I like that we have all these different types of people with different uses and levels of competition - all chiming in with what worked (or didnt work) for them. For people that just want to slam it and hardpark to the guy running penskes or koni racing dampers I personally wouldnt invest in koni race shocks for a street car tho.

[KiDyNomiTe]

I have to agree with most this is only useful for price guide, but even then there are different models. For instance Stance would fall into all 3 categories, the special order 3 ways in expensive. the GR+ and +pro and AL+ in mid range, and the sports in cheap stuff.

And in the end all this is subjective to driver preference

[ZX88]

Originally Posted by KiDyNomiTe

I have to agree with most this is only useful for price guide, but even then there are different models. For instance Stance would fall into all 3 categories, the special order 3 ways in expensive. the GR+ and +pro and AL+ in mid range, and the sports in cheap stuff.

And in the end all this is subjective to driver preference

i agree with you this is subjective to driver preference and the type of driving you are going to use them for. The categorizing is pretty much based on price now.

I updated the layout and listed a bunch of models of each brand under each category.

[AceInHole]

Originally Posted by initial_drifter

Anyone ever run on Ikeya Formula, Moton, or Ohlins?

Most people who spend $4000+ on dampers aren't forum-goers. You don't really need someone to vouch for Ohlins being worth the price, though. Hoping to see how Motons are sometime, as they're pretty much the next step up from what I've got now.

[steve shadows]

I almost sold my KYB GC setup to go with Tanabe, but after driving a car with rebuilt Tien's and realizing my KYB + GC + Tein Camber plate set up handles better im going to try it out at the track first.

[heychris]

Good general thread..

Agree with folks above...if you want THE SH** research what the factory teams are using and spend the dough, it will not be cheap..

Quick question though:
The car I bought has the GP Sports GR6 coilovers on it, had been in a minor L front shunt and the L front coilover looks to be bent . I understand the GR6 is no longer manufactured. Where can I get these rebuilt?

TIA

[Aoshi112]

can we make this a sticky and build upon it?

[PoorMans180SX]

Just though I'd update

Don't forget Topline Aragosta. SPL sells them. The dampers are built in the Netherlands and can be custom valved to any spring rate you want when you order ($200). They even come with they're own shock dyno sheet. They come two way adjustable but you can upgrade to three way.

$2486 base price

[x'ed]

whoever neg repped me and said "you are not the cause of changes" because of the post I made in this thread is an idiot. It was a joke, as this thread was started after I started a coilover thread and people got frustrated. I was making fun of myself by saying "I am glad to see I am the cause of changes, whatever the reason may be", because the thread was started out of annoyance of yet another question about coilovers being started. So get a life guy, instead of searching back two months for a post i made just so you could neg rep me again, whoever you are.

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by x'ed

whoever neg repped me and said "you are not the cause of changes" because of the post I made in this thread is an idiot. It was a joke, as this thread was started after I started a coilover thread and people got frustrated. I was making fun of myself by saying "I am glad to see I am the cause of changes, whatever the reason may be", because the thread was started out of annoyance of yet another question about coilovers being started. So get a life guy, instead of searching back two months for a post i made just so you could neg rep me again, whoever you are.

dude... the more you complain the more people rag on you...it sucks but the sooned u learn the better..
just become a premium member so u can see who repped you then go call him out!!

[x'ed]

Im not complaining, I am saying its a bitch move. What kind of loser searches for an old post and neg reps me for a comment I posted two months ago. And then some guy calls me a faggot. Gurantee he won't fess up, are you from so. cal whoever that was?

[GabeS14]

that happened, to me a few times before, happened to prob anyone here that has been around for a few months or more.,.it sucks, but its even worse when its someone that isnt even discussing anything in the thread, has absolutley no input, and is just passing buy doesnt like your post and reps you!

[x'ed]

Originally Posted by Gabriel25

that happened, to me a few times before, happened to prob anyone here that has been around for a few months or more.,.it sucks, but its even worse when its someone that isnt even discussing anything in the thread, has absolutley no input, and is just passing buy doesnt like your post and reps you!

Yeah, I really don't get that. It just makes it difficult to sell things when people see all red under your name.

[ZenkitonS14]

This thread is pointless, whats "good" and whats "bad" is all a matter of peoples opinion. "Im gonna get such and such coilovers, because people told me to."