The Future Automotive Thread

[kingkilburn]

With the wrangle ballooning into full-size territory why shouldn't the truck manufacturers bring back proper body on frame SUVs? Bring back the K5 Blazer and Ramcharger too.

You want to really throw a curve ball? Import the Jimney as a hybrid or all electric. GM can stick the Hummer grill on it and really get a reaction from Jeep.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by olah.inc

I could live with that front but that rear is no bueno.

[Corbic]

It's like a Mustang raped a Fiat 124....

[spooled240]

350z reloaded with an Eagle Talon rear end

[Corbic]

Basically some bullshit early 2k crap. Car looks dated as fuck.

[ronmcdon]

its just a so so rendering and mostly speculative. wouldnt take it too seriously.

front end reminds me of nd miata, 370z body, and z32 tailights. I do hope theres minimal retro influences. I?m not understanding the appeal of this either.

[Bluejayde]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

I could live with that front but that rear is no bueno.

See, I told you it would end up looking like a lump. Porsche front and Mustang rear end tacked on to a fat 370Z.

[Corbic]

Nissan needs to just modernize the Z and stop dreaming about better times, better designers and trying to cling to greatness Nissan today has never realized.

What they need to do is sack up and drive a modern new direction. They have the power train, they have the chassis... Now they need to just make the car desirable.


Rip off the 812, copy the Aventador...

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Bluejayde

See, I told you it would end up looking like a lump. Porsche front and Mustang rear end tacked on to a fat 370Z.

It?s just a render from a magazine, it?s not official. I?ll withhold judgement until they actually announce it.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Nissan needs to just modernize the Z and stop dreaming about better times, better designers and trying to cling to greatness Nissan today has never realized.

What they need to do is sack up and drive a modern new direction. They have the power train, they have the chassis... Now they need to just make the car desirable.


Rip off the 812, copy the Aventador...

Here we go again with the unrealistic expectations of a super car for regular-ass car price.

As you know Nissan is super fucked right now. In addition to Corona, Ghosn is saying they are in shambles basically. I mean it?s fine to dream but there is absolutely zero chance that anything likes that would or even financially could happen.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/20/...ance-pathetic/

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

It?s just a render from a magazine, it?s not official. I?ll withhold judgement until they actually announce it.







Here we go again with the unrealistic expectations of a super car for regular-ass car price.



As you know Nissan is super fucked right now. In addition to Corona, Ghosn is saying they are in shambles basically. I mean it?s fine to dream but there is absolutely zero chance that anything likes that would or even financially could happen.



https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/20/...ance-pathetic/

Styling is free incase you didn't know.


Chevy actually built a Super car for $58k.



The FRGTBZ86 is actually a handsome car for what it is and didn't try and look like a retro AE86.

The MKV is certainly modern, if not as aggressive as we had hoped.

Oh, and Nissan did give us sexy modern Z's twice before. The successful 300ZX and 350Z, both of which punched well above their weight for dollars. It was the dud 370Z that went full retard retro and doubling down on that will be a disaster.

I agree, Nissan has no money but this means they can't be hoping to cash in on some 70's Weebo Nostalgia. If anything, 80's and 90's are in, so looking back at the angular and aggressive Z32 is the better bet.

Shit, just look at the hype around the Tesla Truck.

[TheRealSy90]

Funny cause those concept tail lights look to be based off the Z32 and yall hate it lol.

[S14rebuild]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

Funny cause those concept tail lights look to be based off the Z32 and yall hate it lol.

Them lights look more new era mustang then z32

[shinhed]

This^^^

.....

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Styling is free incase you didn't know.


Chevy actually built a Super car for $58k.



The FRGTBZ86 is actually a handsome car for what it is and didn't try and look like a retro AE86.

The MKV is certainly modern, if not as aggressive as we had hoped.

.

All that being true, this isn?t the iconic Nissan of the 80?s, 90?s or even the 00?s, this is a Nissan that has entirely lost its way and has one of the oldest portfolios of any manufacturer on the market. They haven?t had a real home run with a vehicle in a decade now. The last time they did anything to get enthusiasts excited was the IDX. It wasn?t for everyone but I think everyone has to admit it had some serious hype around it. And they got cold feet. And that is BEFORE the Ghosn situation and BEFORE Covid.

I?d love to see them doing something wild, but after years and years and years of disappointment I?ve really lost all faith in the company.

[feito]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Styling is free incase you didn't know.


Chevy actually built a Super car for $58k.



The FRGTBZ86 is actually a handsome car for what it is and didn't try and look like a retro AE86.

The MKV is certainly modern, if not as aggressive as we had hoped.

Oh, and Nissan did give us sexy modern Z's twice before. The successful 300ZX and 350Z, both of which punched well above their weight for dollars. It was the dud 370Z that went full retard retro and doubling down on that will be a disaster.

I agree, Nissan has no money but this means they can't be hoping to cash in on some 70's Weebo Nostalgia. If anything, 80's and 90's are in, so looking back at the angular and aggressive Z32 is the better bet.

Shit, just look at the hype around the Tesla Truck.

man, Ive been watching videos on the c8, and although not my cup of coffee, what a fucking car! If these actually turn out to be chevy reliable, chevy really knocked it out of the park. They managed to put sooooo much into it for an unbelievable price, and although little aesthetics are carried over from its predecessors, it's a damn beautiful car. All these with a conventional pushrod engine
cant wait to see these on the road, and who knows, maybe even work on one.
And the new z? Who cares, just watch Nissan drop the ball...

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Styling is free in case you didn't know.

Come on man, no it's not. You should know that.

The process getting from idea to final production model is long and involves many people, trial and error (time and more time), materials (clay or computer time), etc. Not to mention better designers that will put out the better design you desire will cost more to employ. Pininfarina exists solely as a styling house, they don't actually build anything. They don't run a successful business by working for free.

That 812 certainly spent some time in a wind tunnel, that certainly ain't free.

And some style is dictated by manufacturability and materials. You can't always build the same parts out of steel, fiberglass, or aluminum. The fenders on that 812 definitely cost more than a Z fender. Different materials, production methods, production complexity all impact the manufacturing costs. Even assuming the time and effort of coming up with a better design didn't cost anything, actually building the cars costs more. There's a reason cheap cars look cheap, simple slab sided bodies with little detail is cheaper to produce.

Aside from the fact that some disagree with your idea and expectations (me for one, and probably Nissan stylists) it's just off base to expect them to be able to produce a car that looks expensive for cheap. All the cars you listed look like their price points, and I expect the Z to be the same. Any praise you lay on the FRZ and hold back from the Z is a style opinion and nothing more.

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by cdlong

Come on man, no it's not. You should know that.

The process getting from idea to final production model is long and involves many people, trial and error (time and more time), materials (clay or computer time), etc. Not to mention better designers that will put out the better design you desire will cost more to employ. Pininfarina exists solely as a styling house, they don't actually build anything. They don't run a successful business by working for free.

That 812 certainly spent some time in a wind tunnel, that certainly ain't free.

And some style is dictated by manufacturability and materials. You can't always build the same parts out of steel, fiberglass, or aluminum. The fenders on that 812 definitely cost more than a Z fender. Different materials, production methods, production complexity all impact the manufacturing costs. Even assuming the time and effort of coming up with a better design didn't cost anything, actually building the cars costs more. There's a reason cheap cars look cheap, simple slab sided bodies with little detail is cheaper to produce.

Aside from the fact that some disagree with your idea and expectations (me for one, and probably Nissan stylists) it's just off base to expect them to be able to produce a car that looks expensive for cheap. All the cars you listed look like their price points, and I expect the Z to be the same. Any praise you lay on the FRZ and hold back from the Z is a style opinion and nothing more.

You're confusing styling with R&D. The conceptual styling of a car is usually done well before the actual R&D. While it's not 'free', it comes well before the costly stages where the engineers and bean counters do their thing. Nissan needs to up their game, or get new designers/upper management. Playing it safe is sometimes just as dangerous as being risky.

[cdlong]

I'm not, but thanks. Styling usually starts first and usually finishes first, but the two go hand in hand. You can't design a hood line with no knowledge of what's underneath it or position the wheel wells without some basic suspension layout. My point was that it's not even close to free for any company, even the shitty ones that put little effort into the styling. Expecting a highly styled car for the price of a typical production car is unreasonable.

Also, expecting to rip off a Ferrari or Lamborghini design and not get sued is also unreasonable.

[deolio]

c8 is uglier than dick. i can't see nissan botching it as bad as chevrolet did, despite how terrible their cars have looked lately.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by spooled240

You're confusing styling with R&D. The conceptual styling of a car is usually done well before the actual R&D. While it's not 'free', it comes well before the costly stages where the engineers and bean counters do their thing. Nissan needs to up their game, or get new designers/upper management. Playing it safe is sometimes just as dangerous as being risky.

It's also a flat cost. All those tasks he lists about wind tunnels and materials happen regardless if the car looks like an Aztec or a Mazda 6.


Mazda and Kia would also both be great examples of cars that are styled handsomely.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by cdlong

Also, expecting to rip off a Ferrari or Lamborghini design and not get sued is also unreasonable.

MX-5 was a Lotus rip off.

240Z was a Daytona rip off

Diablo was a 300zx rip off

C7 and C8 both clearly "borrowed" from Ferrari.

350Z was a used of being a TT rip off.

Again, I'm not advocating a Ferrari clone.

I'm advocating taking the modern progressive styles of our time and building off that.

This is what the 240Z, Z31, Z32 and Z33 all did.

Show homage to the original with details, like a triple gauge center stack.. Don't try and build some bloated abortion version.

Hell, the MkV Supra with a 300ZX badge would be as "retro" as they should go.

Twin Tubos like a Z32? Check
Inline Six like a 240Z? Check
Long Hood like a 240Z - Z31? Check
2 Seat? Check.

Here, finish it off with the Datsun/Mercedes connection and just use the new 2022 SLK chassis and have Mercedes build the car.

[Corbic]

Not to mention Mercedes has a new turbo 6 complete with an electric supercharger....

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...es-inline-six/

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by deolio

c8 is uglier than dick. i can't see nissan botching it as bad as chevrolet did, despite how terrible their cars have looked lately.

Must be trolling.

Nissan gave us the 370Z, Titan, Murano Convertible, Versa, Rouge, Cube and Juke....

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by Corbic

It's also a flat cost. All those tasks he lists about wind tunnels and materials happen regardless if the car looks like an Aztec or a Mazda 6.


Mazda and Kia would also both be great examples of cars that are styled handsomely.

You think they finalize the design at the same rate for cheap and expensive cars? No, the cheap cars go through 3 design iterations (to throw a random number on it) and they live with it because that what their budget allows. Expensive cars, that have a higher styling budget, go through 20 iterations and refinements (again, a random number to illustrate a point). The cost scales with the iterations so definitely not a flat cost. Each of those iterations (well, second half maybe) spends time in the wind tunnel, so a Corolla may spend a day of wind tunnel time where as an 812 gets weeks collectively.

Mazda has done some impressive work making cheap cars look high rent with their budgets, no doubt. Kia is, at best, shooting par.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by cdlong

You think they finalize the design at the same rate for cheap and expensive cars? No, the cheap cars go through 3 design iterations (to throw a random number on it) and they live with it because that what their budget allows. Expensive cars, that have a higher styling budget, go through 20 iterations and refinements (again, a random number to illustrate a point). The cost scales with the iterations so definitely not a flat cost. Each of those iterations (well, second half maybe) spends time in the wind tunnel, so a Corolla may spend a day of wind tunnel time where as an 812 gets weeks collectively.

Mazda has done some impressive work making cheap cars look high rent with their budgets, no doubt. Kia is, at best, shooting par.

Exactly. Some common sense.

There is also absolutely a cost of styling even before a sketch is done, even before multiple iterations, bean counters, corrections. The reason Hyundai, Kia and Genesis have been able to break out of their knockoff designs of the 90?s and 2000?s is because they went out, poached and PAID highly successful designs big money to come work for them. Kia hired Shreyer, Hyundai got Donckerwolke. Those guys are wildly successful designers who have penned some of the most classic cars of the modern era. That doesn?t come cheap.

And I agree about Mazda. What they have going for them (and also against them) is they are their OWN company and they are small. They obviously have some incredible talent and they don?t have as many layers of management to approve shit. They also have a great, well thought out design direction that keeps getting better and better with each iteration.

[cdlong]

Corbic, missed those other ones in the middle. Your definition of "rip off" is rather different than mine. Either way, it sounds like you want a modern styled Z car and are somehow upset by a magazine render that's speculation lacking a lot of details and possibly some other vehicle elements mixed in. Yeah, you'll never see that car on the road, just chill.

I also don't see what your issue is with the 370z if you liked the 350. It was sufficiently modern though a bit polarizing, it's just been on the road forever without any updates. It's pretty dated at this point but that's to be expected for its age, you can't analyze a 10 year old car with a modern lens and not expect to be disappointed.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by cdlong

Corbic, missed those other ones in the middle. Your definition of "rip off" is rather different than mine. Either way, it sounds like you want a modern styled Z car and are somehow upset by a magazine render that's speculation lacking a lot of details and possibly some other vehicle elements mixed in. Yeah, you'll never see that car on the road, just chill.

I also don't see what your issue is with the 370z if you liked the 350. It was sufficiently modern though a bit polarizing, it's just been on the road forever without any updates. It's pretty dated at this point but that's to be expected for its age, you can't analyze a 10 year old car with a modern lens and not expect to be disappointed.

We've talked about a "retro" z for a while now. It's suspected that Nissan is going to go to that dry well.

As for the 370Z, it's inferior to the 350Z in every possible way.

[[240sx]]

Originally Posted by deolio

c8 is uglier than dick.

... a Chinese knock off one, at that.


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by Corbic

We've talked about a "retro" z for a while now. It's suspected that Nissan is going to go to that dry well.

As for the 370Z, it's inferior to the 350Z in every possible way.

Such as? Just a quick glance shows better numbers for the 370 in power, acceleration, and skidpad grip. The 370 even gets better fuel mileage. What are you referring to aside from your personal opinion on the car? The 350 is even more the retro style while the 370z is more modern (for its time) and sculpted that you seem to want. I just don't get your disdain for the 370 unless it's purely styling (which I don't disagree with).

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by cdlong

Such as? Just a quick glance shows better numbers for the 370 in power, acceleration, and skidpad grip. The 370 even gets better fuel mileage. What are you referring to aside from your personal opinion on the car? The 350 is even more the retro style while the 370z is more modern (for its time) and sculpted that you seem to want. I just don't get your disdain for the 370 unless it's purely styling (which I don't disagree with).

Material Quality
Truck Space
Visibility
Seating Position
Headroom
The Cubie's door only goes 90-degrees and doesn't fully retract
Twitchy handing do to wheel base
Still a bloated pig for its size

Styling, almost every panel and detail is worse

Fuel Economy, it's only an improvement on paper because of testing changes. 350Z HR is the better car.

World agrees with me as the Z34 sales absolutely tanked and never came close to recovering.

The other problem is by 2008 the Z34 was outgunned from the start.

In 2002 the 287hp 350Z sold alongside a 260hp V8 Mustang riding a SRA chassis that dated back to 1979 and the Corvette still looked like a melted Rx7.

By 2008 we had Camaro and Challengers riding IRS setups, Corvette styling had improved and the WRX, Evo and STI had been crowned king.

Rumors of a light and nimble FRSTGT86BZR all about and Nissan dropped the muscular R35.

By 2011 all the pony cars offered 400hp V8's.

The car was DOA and Nissan has chose to let it rot on lots for 13 years now. We've seen no indication of a new car so honestly, 2022 would be a stretch. As I've shown, we already already have leaks of the 2022 SLK.