Official old grumpy assholes of zilvia thread

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by R3b

I think the whole "life skills" in highschool is bullshit, I hear it all the time among my friends, like damn why didn't we learn taxes, rent mortgage, bills etc. Do you think someone at 15-18 has enough introspect to think that far down in life??

Yes they do. The reason you don't see that is because the current system is not setup to encourage and develope that. K-12 is geared for "get you to college to figure your shit out"

George Washington was a fully employed county surveyer at 15. My Great Uncle Red joined the Marines at 16 to fight the Japanese (and later Koreans, Chinese and Vietnamese). Alexander the Great conquered Greece at 13. Young people are incredible of great things if you give them the opportunity and expectation.

Originally Posted by R3b

You honestly have to be retarded or have bad set of cards like help supporting your family, medical bills etc. I have 740 credit, always on top of my bills, both parents work, dont make much. Meanwhile I know people in there late 20s who cant do the basics. No amount of "education" on that stuff will help an individual unless they want it. There is soooooo much free resources online on all of that there is 0 excuse. People will literally max out cards to buy rep wheels lmao they know its stupid but they dont care. Some people are perfectly fine with debt, 0 savings, struggling with cards, and no long term personal goals. Im sure yall see it in the community. Some of the most bottom of the barrel people owning an schassis when they have other life stuff they need to take care of. There car is literally all they have.

Most people are retarded today. Most people have shitty mothers and no fathers today.
As you mentioned, young people don't think ahead about the future. They think they'll go to College, graduate and make 100k, they don't realize that minimum payments on a $10k CC bill means you'll take 40 years and $400k to pay it off.

Most people are two stupid to use free online tools or by the time they realize it, it's to late.

I'd much rather have know about the different types of retirement investment plans at 21 instead of the deeper meaning to Lord of the Files and how to play Ode to Joy on a Trumbone.

Originally Posted by R3b

College is easy...*rant*.

Exactly my point. It's not easy when every HS teacher just tells kids "go to college, get a liberal arts degree, but you have to go to college". When then have a huge emphasis that big state schools are better then community and tech schools. Only poor stupid kids that can't get into a state school go a local/tech school.

However, in real life, 5 years out, not a single employer gives a shit other than if you do or do not have a degree. The only time the actual university you went to matters is when it's a well networked and connected ivy school.

Originally Posted by R3b

Im getting my BA in Mechanical Engineering debt free, takes a bit longer because I've been working and saving but now i've saved enough where I dont need to be working 40hr+. Plus i've had my money pit of a car. Its all about budgeting, putting extra hours at work, being moderately smart with your money and "not living ya best life"

Once again, why are we not teaching young people that?

Instead you have the Unionized Government Teachers telling kids education and college is a right. The solution to student loan debt is to make college free. Vote Bernie.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

My issue with free college is if we are going down that road, we need to have some checks and balances for entry. I have not heard any of the current candidate crop debate on such intricacies.

But the problem is the same people that want free college want equal outcome for all.

So the minute you make entry more stringent, to work as check valve Supply v Demand, you'll have hordes of people crying its racist, sexist, culturalist, transphobic, white suprememenismists, etc.#

So why not just make HS 4 years longer?

At the tail end of this is the ultimate goal, to better ones competitive advantage in the job market.

People cry about College because having a degree improves your odds. But once everyone has a degree, it no longer sets you apart. Corporate America will shift requirements and you'll now need a Masters Degree or a significant emphasis will be placed on what specific school or degree you have.

End result will be the same. The lazy, underachieving or disadvantage will remain at a disadvantage. The clever, well connected, gifted and industrious will rise above.

People cry about a wealth gap, but fail to realize today's gap is nothing compared to the Robber Barioms of the Industisal Era or the Aristocrats before that.

The "poor" of America live far better then the middle class standard of the world. And thanks to technology, their lives are more luxurious, healthy, relaxing and comfortable than the kings and queens of the middle ages.

Those that are truly homeless, are not on the streets because of economic reasons. It's because of mental health problems and drug addiction.

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by R3b

I think the whole "life skills" in highschool is bullshit, I hear it all the time among my friends, like damn why didn't we learn taxes, rent mortgage, bills etc. Do you think someone at 15-18 has enough introspect to think that far down in life??

Do you think these kids have enough motivation to study the current curriculum that consists of poetry, 15th century European history or the melting point of aluminum? lol Many of these subjects could be expedited and simplified. Meanwhile, they are expected to be ready to sign off on tens of thousands of dollars in student loans as soon as they leave HS lmao

[RalliartRsX]

Take out unionized and I'm on board with Corbic. Kids have an insane ability to figure shit out. Stop trying to restrict them.

Being a teacher sucks. A majority of teachers I know gave a shit. However at barely above minimum wage to take care of up to 20 kids at a time , I would also be pissed. Remember, in most cases teachers aren't allowed to set their own curriculum and are required to just meet graduation numbers.

Not the fault of the teachers. The system is fucked for teachers period.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by spooled240

Do you think these kids have enough motivation to study the current curriculum that consists of poetry, 15th century European history or the melting point of aluminum? lol Many of these subjects could be expedited and simplified. Meanwhile, they are expected to be ready to sign off on tens of thousands of dollars in student loans as soon as they leave HS lmao

Fucking Exactly!

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Take out unionized and I'm on board with Corbic. Kids have an insane ability to figure shit out. Stop trying to restrict them.

Being a teacher sucks. A majority of teachers I know gave a shit. However at barely above minimum wage to take care of up to 20 kids at a time , I would also be pissed. Remember, in most cases teachers aren't allowed to set their own curriculum and are required to just meet graduation numbers.

Not the fault of the teachers. The system is fucked for teachers period.

Fire half the teaches, double class size, double the pay.

Bid out schools to private corporations with expectation of year over year cost reduction. The financial waste in public education is absolutely fucking insane.

In my region, 28% of the kids attend private schools that cost $7-10k per year will the Government schools have a budget of $12,600 per student, per year. Guess who gets a better education?

[R3b]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

Take out unionized and I'm on board with Corbic. Kids have an insane ability to figure shit out. Stop trying to restrict them.


Not the fault of the teachers. The system is fucked for teachers period.

I dont think there is anything restricting them? I graduated highschool in 2015 and went to trade school my senior year because most of my credits where done. I should of just went straight to do FREE college classes.

There are plenty of programs and lots of kids do seek them out but most dont utilize it. Might be an american culture thing but you have things like early admission which my brother is taking, basically get your AA right out of highschool, AP classes for those wanting a challenge and higher GPA plus college credits, could do what I did and go to a local tech school to learn even tho imo I learned nothing that I couldnt do from a simple Lidia course. They used the same textbook as my highschool lol, I just went to leave school by 11am, do the online tech stuff and dick around my last year like everyone else. The very select few out of my big school like 40 kids all used free programs to either get into college sooner or go to tech school. Everyone else is either in my boat working/studying, taking on slight loans or they work at a restaurant the last 4 years serving happy hour to tourist.

I used to teach a summer camp teaching 5-10 year olds computer subjects I was taught in highschool. Kids are dumb smart but doesnt change the fact they are kids. VERY little people of the general population know what they want to do as a career at 15-17 which is fine. We talk shit about american education which is granted but sometimes we forget how easy it is to get educated with so many routes to take. Even debt isnt the end of world. Look at doctors and lawyers. No normal person can afford that but if you're making north of 6 figures you can easily pay off 100k+ in loans. Same with any decent degree, 20k debt is basically your first new car and if you're single making 50-60k can pay that off stressfree in a few years.

Plus no one is talking about how dumb expensive some trades are? I wanted to do sound engineering before and only decent and all "non credit" schools had crazy tuition cost. Most people always get into debt and since its private the stuff you do is mainly useless. You need IRL portfolio work, so need to work 10 years to make any sort of living wage. Some people dont mind making under 50k if they're passionate about there career.

You even have tons of adults going back to school at getting a degree at 30-40, its tough but realistic.The only fields I can say you can get away with 0 skills is any government job and having certifications or freelance work/starting a business.

[kanyedian]

#LEARNTOCODE duh

[keioffice]

lots of people have made good points here on high school, university, tech school ect. so I will Just my 2 cents.

Lots of high school counselors, parents and USA society in general PUSH heavy for kids to go straight to university out of high school. If you don't, "you are a loser", don't live on campus? LOSER! Lots of kids end up going straight to an expensive university (they are all expensive relativity) and racking up bills/loans for a degree that is not going to pay off their loans in a reasonable time or they find out their degree isn't something they want to do or they just flat out fail because they are not competent.

In the current system the smart way to go about it is to get your generals done at a community/technical college, then transfer to a university. Or go to a technical college and learn a trade. Learning a trade can also be used to transfer to a university now-a-days depending on the degree/diploma.

Was listening to NPR do a piece on how university kids can't pay their bills and also buy that 200k house and support their brood. BOO HOO yes universities are highly overpriced but I am not shedding tears because you went to a uni for a stupid degree like business management, human resources, history, art, ect. These people expect to be paid 100k plus a year straight out of the gate for doing something that doesn't take a lot of actual education by a teacher. NPR had some lady crying that her middle school resources job wasn't enough to pay her loans+her house bill+her broods fun and activities. LMAO

And it isn't like only the high achieving highschool kids get pushed into going to uni, my cousin is average at best in highschool (he is graduating this year) and did shit on his SAT, his parents are enrolling him in a very expensive school. He wants to be a gym teacher... Great kid but fucking hell

[dorkidori_s13]

college to me was a huge waste of time, money and effort. i quit after 112 credits. i was going to school on a scholarship that was awarded to every high school student who graduated in 2000 with a 3.0 or above average. it paid for 2/3s of the classes cost. my old man paid for the other 1/3rd. ive been an artist my entire life so naturally i went to college for that. started out as a 3d major and changed over to multimedia design with a full minor in traditional art... what i can tell you is anything i learned in college is now completely obsolete. my major courses were bullshit. every single class from 3DSMax to Lightwave to Photoshop to Illustrator was nothing more than "go buy this book and do the tutorials". i had been working as a designer since i was 16 (literally working a normal job as a graphic designer). by the time i hit college, i was teaching my professors. i didnt bother going to class. i would just do all 12-20 chapters of the books tutorials, hand them in and show up for the mid term and final. the ONLY thing that still applies from college is what i learned in my art classes. color theory, composition, mixed mediums etc... i still use the basics of art that i learned thru high school (went to a magnet school here in Vegas for art as my major) and college in everything i do currently.

point is, outside of art... everything i "learned" or was "taught" in college is obsolete. there was no real education in college for me outside of learning to put up with bureaucracy, haggling with teachers to get into their classes because of scheduling conflicts and learning that as an artist, the world will want you to conform to normality... but conforming is nothing more than selling your soul and giving up the spark of creativity in you.

i understand college is good for certain careers... medicine and science really benefit the most. but for a lot of folks out there, college doesnt do a thing for you other that rack up debt and create a false sense of reality. high school and college never prepared me for the real world. it never taught you that the real world is a nasty place and you have to learn to have thick skin.

i started my business in 2007, and while im still running it part time while working a full time day job running an art department... this stupid little business i start making t-shirts with 240sx's on them is still a major part of who i am, my income, my life, my world. NEVER once in high school or college was i encouraged to start my own business, to go out on my own and forge my own path. i distinctly remember high school and college discouraging that kind of thought (outside of my art classes). i remember my high school counselor telling me that i would never make it as an artist unless i got into an expensive art school and studied design to get a bachelors degree... the story was always the same from almost every adult, it was "graduate high school. go to college. graduate college. get a job working for a company or corporation for the rest of your life. get married. have children. save for retirement. await death at an old age". fuck that!

no institution teaches you to go out, do your own thing, get your ass kicked dozens of times, keep getting back up, learn to hit back, learn to deliver a stronger blow than whos kicking your ass and learn to stand triumphant over the ones who said youd never make it when you do... the last time i checked, Steve Jobs never graduated college... infact, he hated it! well, look where his ideas and investments got him 20 years post college years.

we live in a weird society now... and people wonder why i hate coming out of my house anymore lol

[dizzariot]

I get it, y'all are smart. Are you done masturbating in here now. I can only take so many underdog stories in one sitting.

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

I get it, y'all are smart. Are you done masturbating in here now. I can only take so many underdog stories in one sitting.

What's funny is you have the upper hand on many of these college grads. I work with a lot of veterans and they are making way more without degrees and still have the GI bill on the side. These guys also have the option of working anywhere in the world where compensation can vary tremendously(if you know you know). If I were to do it all over again I would have done some things differently, but I made enough moves to board this gravy train and make just about double what I was making a year and a half ago in marketing.

Originally Posted by keioffice

Lots of high school counselors, parents and USA society in general PUSH heavy for kids to go straight to university out of high school. If you don't, "you are a loser", don't live on campus? LOSER! Lots of kids end up going straight to an expensive university (they are all expensive relativity) and racking up bills/loans for a degree that is not going to pay off their loans in a reasonable time or they find out their degree isn't something they want to do or they just flat out fail because they are not competent.

This is true. College was an inexpensive (in some cases free) and huge value adder back in the day which is why all of our parents and virtually the entire generation before us pushed all of us towards it.


Obviously, this is no longer the case. We will be the generation that won't be pushing that hard for college for our kids.

[dorkidori_s13]

i was thinking about this whole thing this morning and it really hit me that college is a method of control, forcing you to learn to live in debt... hear me out on this one as it does make sense.

the western world is mainly run by debt. its how lenders make money. you need to take out a loan to buy a car, you need to take out a loan to buy a house, you need to take out a loan to start a business, you need to pay off medical debt etc etc. point is, our entire society runs on debt for the majority. now, youre told all thru your elementary, junior high and high school career that you have to go to college to get a good job once you graduate so you can spend the rest of your life in a career given banks own our society. so that conditioning sets you up for thinking that this debt you are about to take on once you are 18/19 is perfectly ok. what you are never told is that it will cripple the majority who take it on as well as condition you into being ok with having constant debt hanging over your head. so you head into this huge sum of debt thinking the path is paved for you and its perfect acceptable to have this $30k-$60k hanging over your head for the education you just received, that youll be handed your degree (like you were in HS) and the world will be a bright shiny place filled with opportunity to start earning money and paying off that weight on your shoulders... only most people come to find out they wound up wasting their time in their degree and no one will hire them.

point is, college debt and college in general seems like a conditioning brought about by the education system to introduce debt without actually explaining the dangers behind it and how it can easily ruin your life the instant you take it on. its one thing to buy a house, thats an investment given you build equity in paying it off as well as property values going up over time. its an entirely different thing to take on a mountain of debt for something that really doesnt pay you back for the money invested (the irony of this statement is owning a 240sx lol). the more i think about it, the more i liken college to a ponzi scheme.

[jumpman2334]

this thread sucks now. thanks ya'll

no one is forcing to you live in debt.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Fire half the teaches, double class size, double the pay.

Bid out schools to private corporations with expectation of year over year cost reduction. The financial waste in public education is absolutely fucking insane.

In my region, 28% of the kids attend private schools that cost $7-10k per year will the Government schools have a budget of $12,600 per student, per year. Guess who gets a better education?

I do not think the answer is privatization. That is exactly the model to disenfranchise folks of middle-lower class who otherwise, have very capable, critical thinking minds all because they cannot afford the meal ticket for a private school vs dinner on the table (paying taxes is sure as hell cheaper than paying a college lump sum for private schools). Also, private schools depend on their own funding, which may come from parents through tuition, grants, donations, and endowments. Private schools also often actively seek money from alumni, businesses, and community organizations. If the school is associated with a religious group, as is the case with Catholic parochial schools, the religious organization — like the Catholic Church- there is a specific pot of money dedicated to the schools each year.
Also, enlarging class sizes is another way to completely disenfranchise folks of a harder focus.

Also, as I mentioned; the curriculum is set by the Government for public schools. Fix the shit show they have created with "no kid left behind: etc curriculum, and you fix the problem. Private school can set their own curriculum.

Also, another reason for a smaller, more intimate class size. Community college is not only cheaper, but more successful (in terms of graduates) than larger 4 year institutions with lots of $$$. Why?? Two fold

1) Students have much more access to professors (smaller class sizes), TAs and libraries as less children are competing for time slots to ask a clarification question on Bernoulli's principle and flow separation for example. Does it promote group work? More than likely, which is the positive trad off for the work forcer however.
2) Tenure and R&D based professors more care about their grant research than a proper curriculum for the kids as that's where the $$ is, and a main part of why they keep their jobs.

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

i was thinking about this whole thing this morning and it really hit me that college is a method of control, forcing you to learn to live in debt... hear me out on this one as it does make sense.

the western world is mainly run by debt. its how lenders make money. you need to take out a loan to buy a car, you need to take out a loan to buy a house, you need to take out a loan to start a business, you need to pay off medical debt etc etc. point is, our entire society runs on debt for the majority. now, youre told all thru your elementary, junior high and high school career that you have to go to college to get a good job once you graduate so you can spend the rest of your life in a career given banks own our society. so that conditioning sets you up for thinking that this debt you are about to take on once you are 18/19 is perfectly ok. what you are never told is that it will cripple the majority who take it on as well as condition you into being ok with having constant debt hanging over your head. so you head into this huge sum of debt thinking the path is paved for you and its perfect acceptable to have this $30k-$60k hanging over your head for the education you just received, that youll be handed your degree (like you were in HS) and the world will be a bright shiny place filled with opportunity to start earning money and paying off that weight on your shoulders... only most people come to find out they wound up wasting their time in their degree and no one will hire them.

point is, college debt and college in general seems like a conditioning brought about by the education system to introduce debt without actually explaining the dangers behind it and how it can easily ruin your life the instant you take it on. its one thing to buy a house, thats an investment given you build equity in paying it off as well as property values going up over time. its an entirely different thing to take on a mountain of debt for something that really doesnt pay you back for the money invested (the irony of this statement is owning a 240sx lol). the more i think about it, the more i liken college to a ponzi scheme.

I don't think it's so much conditioning people to live in debt as it is just plain old greed and corruption. I heard the Dean of the college I went to was getting paid $400k to basically drive around and play golf. The shitty part is all of the increases in college tuition are automatically backed by government subsidized and unsubsidized loans from the banks.

College raises fees, student pulls out loan, government tax dollars are used to pay deferred interest to private lender until student graduates, student gets so-so job and pays loan and interest to private lender for 10 years. The only winners here are the colleges and the banks they work with.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by spooled240

The only winners here are the colleges and the banks they work with.

so isnt that pretty much by definition a ponzi scheme?

[TheRealSy90]

I'm pretty sure college is the largest ponzi scheme of all.

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

so isnt that pretty much by definition a ponzi scheme?

A better comparison would be how our politics are run.

[RalliartRsX]

<------------

This is me agreeing with Spool and Dori in regards to universities...... And this from someone who spent 6+ years at University lol.

100K a year tuition is ludicrous!

[kanyedian]

DeVry and University of Phoenix FTW

[kanyedian]

I wanna get some NT03s for the S13 vert

[keioffice]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

I get it, y'all are smart. Are you done masturbating in here now. I can only take so many underdog stories in one sitting.

You are military? Once you get *free use the gi bill to do what you want meng. Vets are the best students, school will be easy for you mate no matter what you choose to do. I am not being sarcastic either, when I went to school I always grouped up with the vets (young or old) because they get shit done and don't make a fuss.

[dizzariot]

Originally Posted by spooled240

What's funny is you have the upper hand on many of these college grads. I work with a lot of veterans and they are making way more without degrees and still have the GI bill on the side. These guys also have the option of working anywhere in the world where compensation can vary tremendously(if you know you know). If I were to do it all over again I would have done some things differently, but I made enough moves to board this gravy train and make just about double what I was making a year and a half ago in marketing.

Yeah the money is in the certifications. I work in the IT field (trained in SATCOM/radio) but just recently got my Sec+. That's considered pretty basic for us but the jobs on the outside start better than most. I am by no means an 'IT' type of person, but I can do the job and plan to do it until I've paid off everything and have more money in savings. On the outside we can always choose to go to 'shithole' locations and run networks. The pay is great. I don't have aspirations to own anything too fancy so I think I'll be set. I always told myself I'd become a BMW Master Tech with the GI Bill if IT doesn't pan out.

Originally Posted by keioffice

You are military? Once you get *free use the gi bill to do what you want meng. Vets are the best students, school will be easy for you mate no matter what you choose to do. I am not being sarcastic either, when I went to school I always grouped up with the vets (young or old) because they get shit done and don't make a fuss.

Yeah I just never really saw myself going back for a traditional degree. It's been either the IT field or BMW Master Mechanic.

[Corbic]

On the subjected of Education, clearly Google is tracking me as this came up as a recommendation.

Great watch. Only briefly on Shool Shootings, but mainly about the overall failure of public education.


https://youtu.be/dcQjqtAyVKY

[PatPs13]

Originally Posted by Corbic

On the subjected of Education, clearly Google is tracking me as this came up as a recommendation.

Great watch. Only briefly on Shool Shootings, but mainly about the overall failure of public education.


https://youtu.be/dcQjqtAyVKY

You can view the info they have tracked on you here
https://adssettings.google.com/authenticated?hl=en

You can also disable it.

[crash n' burn]

Originally Posted by dizzariot

Yeah the money is in the certifications. I work in the IT field (trained in SATCOM/radio) but just recently got my Sec+. That's considered pretty basic for us but the jobs on the outside start better than most. I am by no means an 'IT' type of person, but I can do the job and plan to do it until I've paid off everything and have more money in savings.

Truth bombs. A lot of companies are willing to invest in their employees and have cert repayment or course vouchers available to get them as well. I've done fairly well in my career by only having Sec+ that the Army paid for; only because of the section I was over but I'm happy about it. I renewed it last year and scooped up an ITIL v3 Foundations cert because its relevant. I'm the most unconventional IT guy you'll ever meet.

I just wrapped up my degree which I only ever got to say I have one. I'll never be the type of person to push my kids to do something unless I've done it. I've known plenty of 6-figure tradesmen that barely got out of high school or have a GED. I'm actually using the remaining 24ish months of my GI-Bill to scoop up some trade skills to fall back on in case I ever want to jump ship.

[lunchmeat]

All this certification talk is reminding me I need to get back to it. Only have my A+ and Sec+. Been a sec analyst for the past 2 years now and the money is pretty good, but the hours are kinda shit. The kick to the nuts is that it looks like we're about to lose the contract, and consequently my job thanks to inept upper management.


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[spooled240]

You guys ever sell something and the buyer doesn't have the correct amount or enough cash? This has happened a few times and that's almost always after I get the classic, "what's the lowest you'll take" and after we agreed on a set price.
Does anyone do business with any dignity these days? Fuck, people.

[jumpman2334]

tell me about it. its gotten so bad that ill make sure a potential buyer has (enough) money before i even take time out of my day to meet up with them.

i dont want to spend an hour or two playing nice with a total stranger, just to tell me youve only got 7.5k for a car thats listed at 12k.