Installing Rod Bearings/Main Bearings - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

benefitx · 05-09-2007, 01:38 PM

Exactly how hard would it be for a first time engine builder to install rod bearings and main bearings on a completely new bottom end, with new pistons/rod/crank....

this would be my first engine build but i have swapped engines before and just bolt on's and stuff...do you think it would be possible for me to do it myself or not?

things i would need to buy and install would be Headgasket , Crank , Rods , Pistons , Bearings , Headstuds.

bardabe · 05-09-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benefitx

Exactly how hard would it be for a first time engine builder to install rod bearings and main bearings on a completely new bottom end, with new pistons/rod/crank....

this would be my first engine build but i have swapped engines before and just bolt on's and stuff...do you think it would be possible for me to do it myself or not?

things i would need to buy and install would be Headgasket , Crank , Rods , Pistons , Bearings , Headstuds.

you will also need a filler tool to measure Gap. and a FSM. to check clearance tolerance.

s13silvia123 · 05-09-2007, 01:41 PM

its pretty simple not that hard your first its just that its gonna take you a bit longer. once you get use to the building its seems faster than the first time. just make sure you dont take short cuts. short cuts can be devastating to your build.

benefitx · 05-09-2007, 02:00 PM

good information...i really want to make it into a learning experience and also the fact that shops are saying its close to 800$ and im better off buying a short block or longblock and going from there... for 800 i can get a decent build....

i have alot of wrenching experience but just not engine builds...which i know is different from just pulling plugs and hoses...

benefitx · 05-09-2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13silvia123

its pretty simple not that hard your first its just that its gonna take you a bit longer. once you get use to the building its seems faster than the first time. just make sure you dont take short cuts. short cuts can be devastating to your build.

what short cuts?

benefitx · 05-09-2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bardabe

you will also need a filler tool to measure Gap. and a FSM. to check clearance tolerance.

filler tool? where can i get one/what does it look like? my dad has alot of tools , he owns a machine shop...

benefitx · 05-09-2007, 03:56 PM

filler tool? what is it??

also ive seen some threads where they use a little piece of paper measuring type thing , what is that?

Nikeboy355 · 05-09-2007, 04:23 PM

This might help you... I just finished up rebuilding my first motor...
I am going to update the post in the next day or two with the final pictures from the rebuild...

http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=143200

benefitx · 05-09-2007, 05:10 PM

yea i saw your thread...going to check out that link you just gave me too

benefitx · 05-09-2007, 05:23 PM

what does it mean when you said check the bearing clearances?

crazyikimasho · 05-09-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benefitx

what does it mean when you said check the bearing clearances?

Typically a machine shop does that for you, but its essentially sizing your bearings for crank/rods.

kandyflip445 · 05-09-2007, 06:39 PM

http://www.plastigaugeusa.com/

Link^^

benefitx · 05-09-2007, 07:28 PM

this is where i say..."shit i cant do this , off to the shop"...but i want to do it so can anyone go into detail?

TheWolf · 05-09-2007, 07:34 PM

If you want to understand the machining process and the engine building process a good book for you is "Sunnen's Complete cylinder head and engine rebuilding handbook". It's alot of V8 stuff but you can take that and a FSM and see what you need to do. If you read that book and still don't understand you should probably let a shop do it.

lonelydrifter · 05-09-2007, 07:57 PM

If you really want to do it yourself I would suggest finding someone who has done it before and knows what they are doing and invite them to help you with maybe some beer or money. Probly not something your going to want to do alone if you have never done it and based on the questions you are asking.

johngriff · 05-09-2007, 08:19 PM

Just read the FSM. Slowly. Print it out, have it infront of you. Check off each step. The chiltons guide for the Sentra SR has some good hints in it too.

As far as sizing the bearings, there is two different ways to go about it:

Trail and Error Via Plastiguage. You will need to order more bearing than you are using as you are sizing/resizing like this. Plastiguage is also NOT an exact science.

Having a machine shop spec the crank profile and main/rod ends is a good start. Most of the time, the SR's seem to be right on target if you are using the Crank/block matching system.

My advice: Balancing is EVERYTHING, have a computerized ballace w/the crank pully and flywheel and pressure plate, make sure they are marked BEFORE dissasembly. Make sure they reassembled as they were marked.

New Sockets, CANT GO WRONG. Make sure you have a 12pt socket for 12pt heads, and 6pt sockets, for 6pt heads. You dont want to even START to strip anything.

A recently calibrated tourqe wrench. If you calibrator is local, ask him to measure differences using the extensions YOU will be using.

New hardware. MOST IMPORTANT. New Hardware WHEREVER APPLICABLE. That means NEW OEM OR UPGRADED (ARP! get your credit card!). New Mains, New head studs, new Rod Ends, new snap rings for pistons (ask me about that, i'll tell you a tale).

Dont forget to take every measurement the FSM asks for.

Dont forget to buy a NEW OEM OIL PUMP. It would be dumb to rebuild it and blow it because of oiling. Call West Co Justin.

HAVE FUN. Dont Stress, if you are worried about getting this on the ROAD, buy another car for the time being, beater/whatever.

Buy everyone who helps you beer/food. Machine Shops, tool shops, Justin... dont hesitate to ask questions, and dont walk in somewhere and put your foot in your mouth, no-one likes a know it all.

benefitx · 05-09-2007, 08:37 PM

thanks alot johngriff , whats the tale of the snap rings for pistons? and where can i contract west co justin

johngriff · 05-09-2007, 08:53 PM

Oh, buy new ones, i found one of them in my oil pan, and knocking from the top of cyl 4. So I failed at assembling this engine.

New one on the stand, all ready more baller than the last.

WestCo Justin is the MAN for OEM nissan parts, he posted in this thread, post #11

benefitx · 05-09-2007, 10:38 PM

just one last question if you dont mind answering...

what all will i need from parts down to hardware?

HellonFire · 05-09-2007, 11:38 PM

Have you torn the motor down yet?

Becuase if you havn't you might not even need to do all this that you are saying.

You have to find the cause of your problem first. And you might possibly have to have your block bored, which means larger pistons, etc. Don't go buying something without even knowing your problem.

Tyler

spinitsidewayz · 05-10-2007, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benefitx

filler tool? where can i get one/what does it look like? my dad has alot of tools , he owns a machine shop...

Why don't you ask your dad for help?

Oh, and what my engine repair instructer used to always say... cleanliness is key!

Engine Rebuilding is alot of planning and measuring/calculating instead of actual work. So take your time. Good luck and have fun.

TheWolf · 05-10-2007, 07:06 AM

I usually warn people against plastigauge as it has some flaws. It will not tell you if you have an oval shaped journal. It won't tell you if your main journals are in alignment. It also won't tell you if they're round either. It just tells you the clearance at that specific point. The only solution is about $300 min in measuring tools but most won't spend that so they use plastigauge. Many people just don't know any better and think it's the only way. Also clean and blow out all oil passages and oil lines/oil coolers. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone spin a main bearing, rebuild the engine, and plumb in the same old oilcooler full of dead bearing material.

benefitx · 05-10-2007, 12:41 PM

checking the crank to see if journals are perfectly round my dad can do...tyler im going to buy a hoist today...

Ghostdrifter · 05-10-2007, 03:59 PM

Check it out
http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4156

benefitx · 05-10-2007, 04:02 PM

yeah seen that , anyone have pics of an SR build?

benefitx · 05-10-2007, 04:11 PM

i found a feeler gauge...but i wont be installing any piston rings so why do i need this??

Nikeboy355 · 05-10-2007, 04:19 PM

You'll need them to check piston ring gap...

Download the FSM, print it out, and read the entire section on rebuilding the motor...
Then tear apart your engine, keep everything in order, and inspect/learn/compare against the FSM...

You will learn a ton just by doing those couple of steps...

benefitx · 05-10-2007, 04:32 PM

alright cool , i got a pretty clean place to work, might even lay down some newspaper and take it in my room instead of the messy garage...

Nikeboy355 · 05-10-2007, 04:42 PM

That's all you need... Clean workspace, factory service manual, tools, time, TV, and food every couple of hours...

johngriff · 05-10-2007, 04:43 PM

Clean the garage.

Not enough can be said about Simple Green. Hands down the best cleaner, and it will not destroy the surfaces you are cleaning. Lots of paper towels, masking tape and ziplock bags and sharpies to mark everything down.

05-09-2007, 01:41 PM	#3
s13silvia123 Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: where waldo is Age: 42 Posts: 3,266 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	its pretty simple not that hard your first its just that its gonna take you a bit longer. once you get use to the building its seems faster than the first time. just make sure you dont take short cuts. short cuts can be devastating to your build. __________________ 18g and 20g turbo users click on me http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/261219-18g-20g-turbo-users.html

05-09-2007, 06:39 PM	#12
kandyflip445 Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Arden, NC Age: 39 Posts: 4,460 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: kandyflip445 Feedback Score: 1 reviews	http://www.plastigaugeusa.com/ Link^^ __________________ My 240 vBgarage

05-09-2007, 07:34 PM	#14
TheWolf Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange Park, FL (Jax) Posts: 1,468 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If you want to understand the machining process and the engine building process a good book for you is "Sunnen's Complete cylinder head and engine rebuilding handbook". It's alot of V8 stuff but you can take that and a FSM and see what you need to do. If you read that book and still don't understand you should probably let a shop do it. __________________ Eye on the Prize

05-09-2007, 08:19 PM	#16
johngriff Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 4,103 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: johngriff Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Just read the FSM. Slowly. Print it out, have it infront of you. Check off each step. The chiltons guide for the Sentra SR has some good hints in it too. As far as sizing the bearings, there is two different ways to go about it: Trail and Error Via Plastiguage. You will need to order more bearing than you are using as you are sizing/resizing like this. Plastiguage is also NOT an exact science. Having a machine shop spec the crank profile and main/rod ends is a good start. Most of the time, the SR's seem to be right on target if you are using the Crank/block matching system. My advice: Balancing is EVERYTHING, have a computerized ballace w/the crank pully and flywheel and pressure plate, make sure they are marked BEFORE dissasembly. Make sure they reassembled as they were marked. New Sockets, CANT GO WRONG. Make sure you have a 12pt socket for 12pt heads, and 6pt sockets, for 6pt heads. You dont want to even START to strip anything. A recently calibrated tourqe wrench. If you calibrator is local, ask him to measure differences using the extensions YOU will be using. New hardware. MOST IMPORTANT. New Hardware WHEREVER APPLICABLE. That means NEW OEM OR UPGRADED (ARP! get your credit card!). New Mains, New head studs, new Rod Ends, new snap rings for pistons (ask me about that, i'll tell you a tale). Dont forget to take every measurement the FSM asks for. Dont forget to buy a NEW OEM OIL PUMP. It would be dumb to rebuild it and blow it because of oiling. Call West Co Justin. HAVE FUN. Dont Stress, if you are worried about getting this on the ROAD, buy another car for the time being, beater/whatever. Buy everyone who helps you beer/food. Machine Shops, tool shops, Justin... dont hesitate to ask questions, and dont walk in somewhere and put your foot in your mouth, no-one likes a know it all. __________________ [email protected]

05-09-2007, 08:53 PM	#18
johngriff Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 4,103 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: johngriff Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Oh, buy new ones, i found one of them in my oil pan, and knocking from the top of cyl 4. So I failed at assembling this engine. New one on the stand, all ready more baller than the last. WestCo Justin is the MAN for OEM nissan parts, he posted in this thread, post #11 __________________ [email protected]

05-09-2007, 01:38 PM	#1
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Installing Rod Bearings/Main Bearings Exactly how hard would it be for a first time engine builder to install rod bearings and main bearings on a completely new bottom end, with new pistons/rod/crank.... this would be my first engine build but i have swapped engines before and just bolt on's and stuff...do you think it would be possible for me to do it myself or not? things i would need to buy and install would be Headgasket , Crank , Rods , Pistons , Bearings , Headstuds.

05-09-2007, 02:00 PM	#4
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	good information...i really want to make it into a learning experience and also the fact that shops are saying its close to 800$ and im better off buying a short block or longblock and going from there... for 800 i can get a decent build.... i have alot of wrenching experience but just not engine builds...which i know is different from just pulling plugs and hoses...

05-09-2007, 03:56 PM	#7
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	filler tool? what is it?? also ive seen some threads where they use a little piece of paper measuring type thing , what is that?

05-09-2007, 04:23 PM	#8
Nikeboy355 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 44 Posts: 734 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	This might help you... I just finished up rebuilding my first motor... I am going to update the post in the next day or two with the final pictures from the rebuild... http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=143200

05-09-2007, 05:10 PM	#9
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yea i saw your thread...going to check out that link you just gave me too

05-09-2007, 05:23 PM	#10
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	what does it mean when you said check the bearing clearances?

05-09-2007, 07:28 PM	#13
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	this is where i say..."shit i cant do this , off to the shop"...but i want to do it so can anyone go into detail?

05-09-2007, 07:57 PM	#15
lonelydrifter Zilvia Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: florida Age: 38 Posts: 270 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If you really want to do it yourself I would suggest finding someone who has done it before and knows what they are doing and invite them to help you with maybe some beer or money. Probly not something your going to want to do alone if you have never done it and based on the questions you are asking.

05-09-2007, 08:37 PM	#17
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	thanks alot johngriff , whats the tale of the snap rings for pistons? and where can i contract west co justin

05-09-2007, 10:38 PM	#19
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	just one last question if you dont mind answering... what all will i need from parts down to hardware?

05-09-2007, 11:38 PM	#20
HellonFire Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Age: 38 Posts: 740 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Have you torn the motor down yet? Becuase if you havn't you might not even need to do all this that you are saying. You have to find the cause of your problem first. And you might possibly have to have your block bored, which means larger pistons, etc. Don't go buying something without even knowing your problem. Tyler

05-10-2007, 07:06 AM	#22
TheWolf Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange Park, FL (Jax) Posts: 1,468 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I usually warn people against plastigauge as it has some flaws. It will not tell you if you have an oval shaped journal. It won't tell you if your main journals are in alignment. It also won't tell you if they're round either. It just tells you the clearance at that specific point. The only solution is about $300 min in measuring tools but most won't spend that so they use plastigauge. Many people just don't know any better and think it's the only way. Also clean and blow out all oil passages and oil lines/oil coolers. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone spin a main bearing, rebuild the engine, and plumb in the same old oilcooler full of dead bearing material. __________________ Eye on the Prize

05-10-2007, 12:41 PM	#23
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	checking the crank to see if journals are perfectly round my dad can do...tyler im going to buy a hoist today...

05-10-2007, 03:59 PM	#24
Ghostdrifter Zilvia Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA Age: 37 Posts: 213 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Check it out http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4156 __________________

05-10-2007, 04:02 PM	#25
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yeah seen that , anyone have pics of an SR build?

05-10-2007, 04:11 PM	#26
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i found a feeler gauge...but i wont be installing any piston rings so why do i need this??

05-10-2007, 04:19 PM	#27
Nikeboy355 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 44 Posts: 734 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	You'll need them to check piston ring gap... Download the FSM, print it out, and read the entire section on rebuilding the motor... Then tear apart your engine, keep everything in order, and inspect/learn/compare against the FSM... You will learn a ton just by doing those couple of steps...

05-10-2007, 04:32 PM	#28
benefitx Banned from the Marketplace Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: suwanee ga Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	alright cool , i got a pretty clean place to work, might even lay down some newspaper and take it in my room instead of the messy garage...

05-10-2007, 04:42 PM	#29
Nikeboy355 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Age: 44 Posts: 734 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	That's all you need... Clean workspace, factory service manual, tools, time, TV, and food every couple of hours...

05-10-2007, 04:43 PM	#30
johngriff Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 4,103 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: johngriff Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Clean the garage. Not enough can be said about Simple Green. Hands down the best cleaner, and it will not destroy the surfaces you are cleaning. Lots of paper towels, masking tape and ziplock bags and sharpies to mark everything down. __________________ [email protected]