The Anti-Christ thread

[allntrlundrgrnd]

Originally Posted by SuperiorS14

wow no faith no hope nothing to look foward to..............christ does exist and he loves you my friend weather you want to believe it or not..............

Nothing to look forward to? like heaven?


HA!

[revat619]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

you sir need to do more in depth study. There is plenty of real evidence to prove the existence of Jesus. That is without a doubt. As for his miracles and or his resurrection? That is debated. Though no one in historical circles doubts the man existed.

The Man existed, he preached a lot of spiritual truths, universal truths. He taught spiritually correct ways to live. If people would stop getting themselves mucked up with their misinterpretations of the bible and just focus on these things they would realize he was quite valuable and influential to man.

Is the religions that have sprung up in his name completely right or correct? Not always. Show me any man in this world that adheres to all the spiritual truths and follows them completely without being sinful or corruptible, and I will show you a monk or someone who is dead.

I.E. man is not perfect, man lies, man gets corrupted by power etc... If we were perfect we would either be monks or not exist.
Therefore given that you cannot expect the bible to exactly perfect or correct. It has been handed down through the ages by man.

Does that mean God or Jesus cannot exist? Hell no. It just means you can't take all of it word for word but you cannot condemn all of it as being nothing but fiction.

The Jews killed in the name of god, the Christians killed in the name of god, Islam has killed in the name of god. Why? Because man has free will giving one the decision to choose , right, wrong, amoral, moral, good, evil. Its up to us to try and adhere to living right.

To many people get caught up in trying to prove existence. Try to learn from the teachings, oh and faith is a important thing in life as well. Faith is really what gives people hope and the drive to be better.

Best thing said in this entire thread.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by revat619

Best thing said in this entire thread.

Yes, and sadly it contains FAR too many words, people will ignore it and randomly chime in with disrespectful and ignorant statements.
Gotta love that internet.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by PHLIP

Yes, and sadly it contains FAR too many words, people will ignore it and randomly chime in with disrespectful and ignorant statements.
Gotta love that internet.

LOL!!! Preach brotha!!!


Seriously though a TRUE anti-christ is an impossibility. Christ was the son of GOD right? That means that the true ANTI christ would have to be the son of Lucifer/Satan/whatever you want to call him. Lucifer is a fallen angel, angels were created WITHOUT the ability to reproduce. In most of these anti-christ prophecies there is no real mention of that anti-christ actually being the son of satan to begin with. A terrible human being does not the anti-christ make...

[SR240DET]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

you sir need to do more in depth study. There is plenty of real evidence to prove the existence of Jesus. That is without a doubt. As for his miracles and or his resurrection? That is debated. Though no one in historical circles doubts the man existed.

The Man existed, he preached a lot of spiritual truths, universal truths. He taught spiritually correct ways to live. If people would stop getting themselves mucked up with their misinterpretations of the bible and just focus on these things they would realize he was quite valuable and influential to man.

Is the religions that have sprung up in his name completely right or correct? Not always. Show me any man in this world that adheres to all the spiritual truths and follows them completely without being sinful or corruptible, and I will show you a monk or someone who is dead.

I.E. man is not perfect, man lies, man gets corrupted by power etc... If we were perfect we would either be monks or not exist.
Therefore given that you cannot expect the bible to exactly perfect or correct. It has been handed down through the ages by man.

Does that mean God or Jesus cannot exist? Hell no. It just means you can't take all of it word for word but you cannot condemn all of it as being nothing but fiction.

The Jews killed in the name of god, the Christians killed in the name of god, Islam has killed in the name of god. Why? Because man has free will giving one the decision to choose , right, wrong, amoral, moral, good, evil. Its up to us to try and adhere to living right.

To many people get caught up in trying to prove existence. Try to learn from the teachings, oh and faith is a important thing in life as well. Faith is really what gives people hope and the drive to be better.

I want to believe you but I need something to go on, some kind of secular evidence showing he did exist, which is actually kind of hard to find. If he did in fact live, without a doubt, then I am sure presenting valid, secular evidence of his existence would not be a problem.

Science can explain where people get their ethics naturally without the need of a deity. So the “spiritually correct ways to live” may go against what is natural to the human species. I really don’t care to explain, I don’t care if I influence people, but if you really want know ill send you a link that can explain in great detail and evidence to back up the theory.

We possess desire and motivation, which drives people towards prosperity. We are inherently susceptible to wanting more, and it is desire and motivation that keeps us pushing for more until we are satisfied. With out desire and motivation we cannot prosper.

Faith in a religious context is to believe without evidence, which is not desirable. When you put faith towards something you end logical reasoning and knowledge acquisition.

Hope in a religious context is also not desirable. Wanting for something to happen without doing anything. Wishful thinking will not impact reality.

I sincerely believe that this is the only life we have and we shouldn’t be satisfied with good enough. People should make the most of life now and not expect to live in an afterlife. Most Atheists capable of thinking for them selves will feel the same, and agree, we should be good to our fellow humans for the sake of being good without any expectation of a reward or some kind of punishment in an eternal afterlife.

I am steering this thread off topic so If anybody wants to comment on anything i have said then PM me.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by SR240DET

I want to believe you but I need something to go on, some kind of secular evidence showing he did exist, which is actually kind of hard to find. If he did in fact live, without a doubt, then I am sure presenting valid, secular evidence of his existence would not be a problem.

Dude, you can't be serious... It is un-questionable historical fact that Jesus did live and was an influential religious teacher. Those are facts, you cannot argue those unless you seriously think that all history books and television programs are a big conspiracy and all lies. I mean we really shouldn't have to prove this to you. Hell the Discovery Channel had a show on the actual life of Jesus within the last few months.

It takes FAITH to believe that jesus was actually the son of god, I cannot blame you for questioning that as there is no real proof that that is true. Really that's impossible to prove, just like the existence of God. The only person who could prove that God exists and Jesus is his son is God himself. So that's just a question of whether or not you want to believe, and I can't bash you for doubting.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by SR240DET

I want to believe you but I need something to go on, some kind of secular evidence showing he did exist, which is actually kind of hard to find. If he did in fact live, without a doubt, then I am sure presenting valid, secular evidence of his existence would not be a problem.

Science can explain where people get their ethics naturally without the need of a deity. So the “spiritually correct ways to live” may go against what is natural to the human species. I really don’t care to explain, I don’t care if I influence people, but if you really want know ill send you a link that can explain in great detail and evidence to back up the theory.

We possess desire and motivation, which drives people towards prosperity. We are inherently susceptible to wanting more, and it is desire and motivation that keeps us pushing for more until we are satisfied. With out desire and motivation we cannot prosper.

Faith in a religious context is to believe without evidence, which is not desirable. When you put faith towards something you end logical reasoning and knowledge acquisition.

Hope in a religious context is also not desirable. Wanting for something to happen without doing anything. Wishful thinking will not impact reality.

I sincerely believe that this is the only life we have and we shouldn’t be satisfied with good enough. People should make the most of life now and not expect to live in an afterlife. Most Atheists capable of thinking for them selves will feel the same, and agree, we should be good to our fellow humans for the sake of being good without any expectation of a reward or some kind of punishment in an eternal afterlife.

I am steering this thread off topic so If anybody wants to comment on anything i have said then PM me.

Like I said before you need to do more studying on your own. I am not here to spoon feed your lazy ass.
The evidence of existence is there. Like racepar said as well as I said the question of him doing miracles and being the son of god is a debated subject and possibly requires faith.

As far as your toss of ethics to being Scientific proven. You seem to be referring to the Psychiatric community and their desire to try and label every single human emotion and feeling to chemicals.

That has nothing to do with spirituality and in fact spirituality is separate from Religion . These last two points are off topic to the thread.

Oh and again I will say this go out and read a book called God according to God. It was written by a Physicist so it should not scare your atheistic self away.

[Matej]

In my opinion Jesus was either:

A. A crazy guy.
Just like there are crazy people in mental institutions today. People who believe their own thought-up stories and tell you about how they met with aliens or how the government is spying on them in such detail and so convincingly that if you did not know it was not true, you would be ready to believe them. He just happened to live in a time when people did not know better. I mean, if someone came up to you and told you a story like that today, you would laugh at them, or give them some change to leave you alone.

B. A really clever guy.
In every time period there are always individuals who think more openly than the general masses, and are able to use it to their advantage. Perhaps Jesus, seeing how gullible people are, made it all up. Maybe for personal gain (does not have to be monetary), just like a lot of the new religions, such as Scientology, or Joseph Smith and the Mormons (if you are a follower of either of those, I am sorry for offending you). Or perhaps he truly was a good person, and even though he knew he was telling made up stories, he knew it was a great way to reach the people and maybe help them be a better person as well. Perhaps he never even claimed his stories to be fact, perhaps he was just a great and loved storyteller, and history just ended up making him into some Godlike being. Either way, he definitely achieved fame, since we are talking about him today.

[FaLKoN240]

Originally Posted by SR240DET

Science can explain where people get their ethics naturally without the need of a deity. So the “spiritually correct ways to live” may go against what is natural to the human species. I really don’t care to explain, I don’t care if I influence people, but if you really want know ill send you a link that can explain in great detail and evidence to back up the theory.

We possess desire and motivation, which drives people towards prosperity. We are inherently susceptible to wanting more, and it is desire and motivation that keeps us pushing for more until we are satisfied. With out desire and motivation we cannot prosper.

That which causes us to "live correctly" would be society and laws.

Without a structural system to depict what is right and wrong with punishments that fit the crime. We would be a mess.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by FaLKoN240

That which causes us to "live correctly" would be society and laws.

Without a structural system to depict what is right and wrong with punishments that fit the crime. We would be a mess.

Can anyone REALLY trust the rest of huminity to not fuck everything up if there was no consequence???

I sure couldn't...

[Walperstyle]

I hear this a few times

everything is on the internet

No, It really isn't. At least not to everyone. I've obtained books that are like 100+ years old from passing masons and eastern star members. I've tried to read them and if they were on the internet, they are almost impossible to understand, its such old English, and the references are from a few hundred years back. You really have to know your history to even attempt to make sense.

Its also absurd to think that EVERY book was scanned, or re-written so people could see it on the internet. The ones that are, or are partially talked about or quoted are often misleading. Whenever you do not put in full the writings of another, and only using quotes you quite often are giving an opinion based on someones writing. Thus, its never 100% accurate the information on the internet. Any of you that use Wikipedia for Term Papers should re-consider. Actually, Teachers are giving horrible marks in our local College because of this. The 'jist' is never the 'story'. For this same reason I have concluded that because of the internet, 'truth is an opinion unless witnessed'. (kinda goes back to the old days of 'you don't know, you were not there')

Mabus

well he made a mistake like 'histler' before. So Maybe Mabus is the simpsons character McBain? Nostradamus also put his work into 3 different languages to make it difficult to translate, so it might not even start with an 'M'.

Originally Posted by racepar1

Can anyone REALLY trust the rest of huminity to not fuck everything up if there was no consequence???

I sure couldn't...

Totally true, but notice how many laws there are? I believe because of lawyers and bullshit regulation is the reason why we are in a recession right now. (for example) If GM could kill off its union, and let workers back to work under already in place labor laws, things would be fine, but there is laws that fight against other laws that actually only benefit lawyers. Meanwhile, China kicks ass because they have one law 'do what we say' yet all my friends over there seem very happy.

[Walperstyle]

Originally Posted by Matej

In my opinion Jesus was either:

A. A crazy guy.
Just like there are crazy people in mental institutions today. People who believe their own thought-up stories and tell you about how they met with aliens or how the government is spying on them in such detail and so convincingly that if you did not know it was not true, you would be ready to believe them. He just happened to live in a time when people did not know better. I mean, if someone came up to you and told you a story like that today, you would laugh at them, or give them some change to leave you alone.

B. A really clever guy.
In every time period there are always individuals who think more openly than the general masses, and are able to use it to their advantage. Perhaps Jesus, seeing how gullible people are, made it all up. Maybe for personal gain (does not have to be monetary), just like a lot of the new religions, such as Scientology, or Joseph Smith and the Mormons (if you are a follower of either of those, I am sorry for offending you). Or perhaps he truly was a good person, and even though he knew he was telling made up stories, he knew it was a great way to reach the people and maybe help them be a better person as well. Perhaps he never even claimed his stories to be fact, perhaps he was just a great and loved storyteller, and history just ended up making him into some Godlike being. Either way, he definitely achieved fame, since we are talking about him today.

Personal Gain? wow, you really didn't read the bible did you. lol.

You are right about Scientology probably following the same path though. Hubbards war buddies remember him saying he'd get rich starting a religion. But history is going to remember Tom Cruise over some random war vets. Sad. Very sad.

I sincerely believe that this is the only life we have and we shouldn’t be satisfied with good enough. People should make the most of life now and not expect to live in an afterlife. Most Atheists capable of thinking for them selves will feel the same, and agree, we should be good to our fellow humans for the sake of being good without any expectation of a reward or some kind of punishment in an eternal afterlife.

parts in bold are actually very New Testament. If you believe in afterlife or not, wouldn't you agree that there is some baseline needed to motivate the lazy people to make the best of life? Generally mankind is lazy. If someone gave you food every day, you wouldn't want to go work for it. You'd expect it for free.

That's the beauty of religion, it promotes doing something for your community, and it really doesn't say you will go to hell if you don't participate. It is easier to be drawn to bad things when you do not participate in helping the community.

Right now, for example. How many people x how many hours are being wasted on internet discussions that don't lead anywhere, instead of people getting outside and doing something for your neighbor, street, city, town, country?

The power of Community is a beautiful thing. Imagine if for one day, everyone in your city picked up one piece of garbage. Or lets say built a house. The Amish can build a house in a day when they get a small community together.

Not saying we should all go hardcore nutty old-school! I believe that most religion promotes community and helping others, and from the reading of the bible and the history of people, yeah, you can see how good things have happened.

Mankind isn't perfect. We never will be. But to make the most of life, its outlined in the Bible. (in-between a lot of history and jargon)

(actually Buddhism is kinda cool concept for me too, but it goes a little further saying you shouldn't even kill any other living thing. This includes bugs, I f'n hate mosquito's)


note: my background is Christian, however, i've gone through about 3 different stages of it. As a kid, I went to sunday school, and never really liked it after the one youth dude quit, so I stopped going for about 20+ years. I came back to it on my own after sitting in on a few seminars with various types of people from different places. So I went from belief, to kinda ignoring it, to now reading, and coming up with my own relationship with god. Kinda hard to describe, so I'll just say, because of some of my opinions I actually find it hard to get along with bible thumpers. ...I actually can't stand them, and i've smoked weed, I still drink beer often, I work in a job that rapes the land of resources, and I've had plenty of sex before marriage etc. I think most should read the bible but don't approach it like its the word of god. See it from the perspective of people that wrote it and leave a lot of it open for interpretation!


Sum up where i was going to stay on topic, I agree with the other dude, the Anti-christ, is a way of life, not a person that creates doom! You get enough people that are against or warping the words of god... well, lol, you have the SS. Hitler himself didn't pull off the events of the 30's and 40's. He had many other people with an agenda, that went against pretty much every religion.

[drift_limo]

Originally Posted by revat619

Jesus of Nazareth did in fact exist and was crucified. THIS is historical FACT. and not just in the bible. His life and death are recorded in Roman/Greek documents written in Latin/Greek and are further substantiated by Hebrew texts. These sources are all recognized as legitimate and true historical documents by historians both religious and nonreligious alike. Look it up because obviously you haven't.

Now, whether you believe he is the Christ is up to you, but the person whom that title is tied to did exist.

As for my beliefs, i'm a Christian and believe Jesus to be the Christ. There is nothing anyone can say to change that, so don't bother. Now, is obama the anti-christ? I don't know, nor do i care. I just live my life. That's all i'm going to contribute to this "argument".

Oh dont get me wrong I bet there was a jesus. but I mean seriously think about every religion has the same history background since the dawn of time either the babylonians thru the romans till date.

like the sayin goes belive in heaven you belive in hell.
so with that said from an atheist point of view you get thepoint. but im goin based of books and bibles... eveything points the same story only with a different person.
anti-christ i doubt its real.

Now if the day comes with some 2012 crap and anti-christ is right in front of me then that will be a different story lol till then monkey dont see, dont hear and see's no evil