The Future Automotive Thread

[KA24DESOneThree]

A FiST with 220hp and 270ft-lbs is quick.

It's not slow car fast; slow car fast would be a 1.0 EcoBoost Fiesta with a full ST suspension and brake swap. I have thought about that combination many times but I've also been told the steering wouldn't impress me.

[ronmcdon]

I think he likes to talk about his fist any chance he gets, which is okay.

I don't agree a modified fist is 'slow car fast', especially on street driving especially with that torque and probably torque steer, but maybe it is on a track day. I do think it would make for a fun daily driver. Almost got one myself and still might some day.

[Corbic]

Pussies


https://youtu.be/QMWikI9L7T0

Skip to 4:05

[exitspeed]

So just today Toyota and Suby confirmed 100% there’s a new 86/BRZ coming and this was what was said:

"We have a new 86 team," he told Motor. "We have to make a new 86 that surpasses the Supra ... that is what the customer expects."

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/27/...86-subaru-brz/

So legit covo here...what is going to really make us happy, realistically?

We can all agree that handling isn’t these car’s problem nor is the lack of aftermarket. It’s the power. What is gonna take to shut down the haters and make this THE car we’ve all been asking for?

For me, 220hp MINIMUM! If it was was 240-250, same weight, same handling characteristics and (as long as the proportions were the same ) relatively attractive,

[BOROSUN]

a turbo that's not attached to the motor.

would like to see a fuck california edition.

[ronmcdon]

What would make customers happy is actually listening to customers and quit being so arrogant.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

I think he likes to talk about his fist any chance he gets, which is okay.

I don't agree a modified fist is 'slow car fast', especially on street driving especially with that torque and probably torque steer, but maybe it is on a track day. I do think it would make for a fun daily driver. Almost got one myself and still might some day.

Stock pretty much nill on torque steer actually. The minute you tune torque steer , add powerflex passenger side engine mount insert bye bye torque steer. Get an LSD and you will not have torque steer even with hybrid or big Turbo.
This is not your Daddys MS3 or Focus ST lol.
Ya I like talk about it because they are badass little cars .

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

So just today Toyota and Suby confirmed 100% there’s a new 86/BRZ coming and this was what was said:



https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/27/...86-subaru-brz/

So legit covo here...what is going to really make us happy, realistically?

We can all agree that handling isn’t these car’s problem nor is the lack of aftermarket. It’s the power. What is gonna take to shut down the haters and make this THE car we’ve all been asking for?

For me, 220hp MINIMUM! If it was was 240-250, same weight, same handling characteristics and (as long as the proportions were the same ) relatively attractive,

Its the torque that is the issue with the car it has measly 154 ft LBs It would need at least 230-250 ft lbs or more plus roughly close to the same amount of HP to make the car perform like it should.

[LoneStarSilvia]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

So just today Toyota and Suby confirmed 100% there’s a new 86/BRZ coming and this was what was said:



https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/27/...86-subaru-brz/

So legit covo here...what is going to really make us happy, realistically?

We can all agree that handling isn’t these car’s problem nor is the lack of aftermarket. It’s the power. What is gonna take to shut down the haters and make this THE car we’ve all been asking for?

For me, 220hp MINIMUM! If it was was 240-250, same weight, same handling characteristics and (as long as the proportions were the same ) relatively attractive,

Supercharged or turbo STi/TRD editions, but keep the N/A as a lower trim.

All these $30K+ special editions with no real performance upgrades they keep releasing of the FRZ86 is like a slap in a face every time.

[exitspeed]

It’ll be interesting to see where these cars go with weight. The industry trend is cars usually get heavier with each new generation. But some car manufacturers set out to make a car lighter.

I could see this going either way weight wise.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

So just today Toyota and Suby confirmed 100% there’s a new 86/BRZ coming and this was what was said:

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/27/...86-subaru-brz/

So legit covo here...what is going to really make us happy, realistically?

We can all agree that handling isn’t these car’s problem nor is the lack of aftermarket. It’s the power. What is gonna take to shut down the haters and make this THE car we’ve all been asking for?

For me, 220hp MINIMUM! If it was was 240-250, same weight, same handling characteristics and (as long as the proportions were the same ) relatively attractive,

Keep the N/A version as the entry level car with slightly evolved stats and just add a mid range performance version to the line up featuring the WRX's production engine. That thing had 265hp last time I checked. N/A base price starts at $24.9. Turbo version starts at $29.9. Offer TRD/STI versions later on with the STI engine for $35k.

I'd buy the mid ranger in a heartbeat.

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

So just today Toyota and Suby confirmed 100% there’s a new 86/BRZ coming and this was what was said:



https://www.autoblog.com/2019/09/27/...86-subaru-brz/

So legit covo here...what is going to really make us happy, realistically?

We can all agree that handling isn’t these car’s problem nor is the lack of aftermarket. It’s the power. What is gonna take to shut down the haters and make this THE car we’ve all been asking for?

For me, 220hp MINIMUM! If it was was 240-250, same weight, same handling characteristics and (as long as the proportions were the same ) relatively attractive,

My main gripe is the cost. I never understood is how a non-turbo, RWD BR-Z coupe STARTS at $25k and a WRX with twice the number of diffs, axles, doors and 30-40% more hp & tq starts at $27k. A fully optioned BR-Z should cost $27k with base models around $22k IMO. How much a boosted 86/BR-Z will cost...$45k+? lol Now, I will extend the olive branch and say a loaded s15 spec R in today's dollars is in that $45k range, but how did that pan out for Nissan?

[Corbic]

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Keep the N/A version as the entry level car with slightly evolved stats and just add a premium performance version to the line up featuring the WRX's production engine. That thing had 265hp last time I checked. N/A base price starts at $24.9. Turbo version starts at $29.9. Offer TRD/STI versions later on with the STI engine for $35k.

"WRX Turbo won't fit" - Toyota/Supra

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

It’ll be interesting to see where these cars go with weight. The industry trend is cars usually get heavier with each new generation. But some car manufacturers set out to make a car lighter.

I could see this going either way weight wise.

It's possible, but I think low weight was part of the purpose of the 86 and some level one of the things differentiates it further with the zupra at this point. If mazda, a smaller company, can shrink the nd and have it lighter than the nc, then you'd think toyota and subaru are no less capable of it.

A heavier 86 would definitely not appeal to most. An even lighter 86 I would really like, even it doesn't have a significant power increase. of course, nobody is doing to desire the torque dip and I agree with some of you more torque is needed. I am totally okay with no forced induction.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by spooled240

My main gripe is the cost. I never understood is how a non-turbo, RWD BR-Z coupe STARTS at $25k and a WRX with twice the number of diffs, axles, doors and 30-40% more hp & tq starts at $27k. A fully optioned BR-Z should cost $27k with base models around $22k IMO. How much a boosted 86/BR-Z will cost...$45k+? lol Now, I will extend the olive branch and say a loaded s15 spec R in today's dollars is in that $45k range, but how did that pan out for Nissan?

Your theory makes sense on paper, but there’s one major factor you’re forgetting. The Impreza platform cost is spread out among 3 models; Impreza, Crosstrek and WRX/STI. They can offer those more expensive performance add ones because it’s just adding them to an existing model. The Impreza sells in above 6 digits and the Crosstrek is counted as a separate model and that sells above 6 digits. The best year the 86/BRZ ever had was the 86 sold just over 18,000 units.

That’s the reason the car is more expensive in a nutshell.

[ronmcdon]

The WRX and Sti are the models that desperately need more power. When I read about the S209, its one of the most depressing things ever.

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by Corbic

"WRX Turbo won't fit" - Toyota/Supra

Maybe in the current car (which I doubt), but we're talking about what we'd want to see from a new model to finally make consumers happy. Design the chassis so that the engine DOES fit. Essentially, I'm saying I want the new model to have:

Base N/A: 200hp-ish for $24.9ish
Midrange WRX Turbo: 265hpish for $29k
Range Topper STiTurbo: 300hp+ for $35k

All while staying close to the current model's dimensions & handling. A little bit of weight gain should be expected though.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Maybe in the current car (which I doubt), but we're talking about what we'd want to see from a new model to finally make consumers happy. Design the chassis so that the engine DOES fit. Essentially, I'm saying I want the new model to have:

Base N/A: 200hp-ish for $24.9ish
Midrange WRX Turbo: 265hpish for $29k
Range Topper STiTurbo: 300hp+ for $35k

All while staying close to the current model's dimensions & handling. A little bit of weight gain should be expected though.

Same arguments had been made in 2010.

Tada doesn't give two shits about turbos. The Japanese have become ungodly lazy and unoriginal in their products and I don't expect that to change in the next two years...

I've been saying this for years.

In 2003 a 300hp AWD Turbo 4 was bonkers going up against 260hp and 306hp V8s. The Z33 was a bargain with its 287/305hp going up against comparable V8s....

Now we have 360hp 4-bangers and 500whp N/A V8s and FI V8s making +800hp.

New Ford F150 with a tuned 2.7 Ecoboost just made 550whp, 505 ft/tq with a tune, injectors and I belive 3.5 turbos.

Prius isn't even industry leading in fuel economy.

[S14rebuild]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Is that a supra?!?!

[simmode1]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Same arguments had been made in 2010.

Tada doesn't give two shits about turbos. The Japanese have become ungodly lazy and unoriginal in their products and I don't expect that to change in the next two years...

I've been saying this for years.

In 2003 a 300hp AWD Turbo 4 was bonkers going up against 260hp and 306hp V8s. The Z33 was a bargain with its 287/305hp going up against comparable V8s....

Now we have 360hp 4-bangers and 500whp N/A V8s and FI V8s making +800hp.

New Ford F150 with a tuned 2.7 Ecoboost just made 550whp, 505 ft/tq with a tune, injectors and I belive 3.5 turbos.

Prius isn't even industry leading in fuel economy.

I'd be inclined to agree with you. I think we all know Toyota/Subaru won't deliver what the consumers are asking for, based on their responses of late. But the question was, now that an 86 successor has officially been announced, what do consumers what to see from a new model? Having a sub $30k RWD coupe with 500hp while weighing the same as a s14 is a great idea. I just just targeting about half that horsepower is more realistically achievable for such a niche vehicle. I mean, that's Porsche performance ffs...

I'm a big fan of the 2.7 & 3.5 Ecoboosts btw. I think they might be the LSx swaps of the future.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by S14rebuild

Is that a supra?!?!

Some Dumbass put a MKV Z4 front on a MKIV.

[spooled240]

"let's put the most repulsive part(aside from the transmission) of the new Supra on the old Supra"

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Your theory makes sense on paper, but there’s one major factor you’re forgetting. The Impreza platform cost is spread out among 3 models; Impreza, Crosstrek and WRX/STI. They can offer those more expensive performance add ones because it’s just adding them to an existing model. The Impreza sells in above 6 digits and the Crosstrek is counted as a separate model and that sells above 6 digits. The best year the 86/BRZ ever had was the 86 sold just over 18,000 units.

That’s the reason the car is more expensive in a nutshell.

Fair enough. I'm just going to laugh if they are going to try and sell a 250hp BR-Z for $40k+.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by simmode1

I'd be inclined to agree with you. I think we all know Toyota/Subaru won't deliver what the consumers are asking for, based on their responses of late. But the question was, now that an 86 successor has officially been announced, what do consumers what to see from a new model? Having a sub $30k RWD coupe with 500hp while weighing the same as a s14 is a great idea. I just just targeting about half that horsepower is more realistically achievable for such a niche vehicle. I mean, that's Porsche performance ffs...

I'm a big fan of the 2.7 & 3.5 Ecoboosts btw. I think they might be the LSx swaps of the future.

Oh I'm not advocating for 500hp sub $30k,

But I do think 350hp, Recaro treatment, mag-ride suspension and Toyota could have had a $40k Boxster fighter 5 years ago.

Then again that now incrouches on the Zupra.

Congrats you just Nissan'd yourself Toyota. Can't have a turbo S13, might bring shame to the lucrative NA Z32 sales!!....

Frustrating thing about Toyota is they have all the hardware. Steller chaises by Lexus that are weighted down with luxury items, sound deadening and plush rides, a few killer engines and transmissions. Subaru has turbo-4s and flat sixes. All of these components are EPA certified (unlike an SR for example).

Toyota is just not interested in it, and I think it's because they, like most/all Japanese companies are two focused on the bizarre Japanese market.

Japan has lost out big across dozens of industries because they are just too Nippon Centric. Phones, consumer electronics, software, video games, power tools, industrial equipment, toys, model kits, car tuning, air soft, etc.

You name it, they made it, but then they didn't adapt to the progression of technology, consumer wants and market conditions.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by spooled240

"let's put the most repulsive part(aside from the transmission) of the new Supra on the old Supra"

The ZF 8HP is a legit piece of kit for an automatic transmission. Fucker is fast and hard for a true auto. The 1320 has basically a trans tune for drag mod and she bangs like a built aftermarket setup.


That said... It's mind blowing since BMW has all the plug and play parts and they are all EPA certified. It's not like trying to design a custom one off manual transaxle doe the GTR.

BMW has a Getreg MT82 and a in house SMG (DCCT) transmissiona available in the Z4 and Z4M.

Toyota really cheaped the fuck out. Even the infotainment system is pure BMW with an annual fee required for Apple Carplay.

Toyota should have at least integrated their own infotainment system for congruence and 5x114.3 lug patterns with studs.

Next, Carbon Fiber Targa Top option.

Honestly, I'd rather have seen a larger, TTV6 RC-F based 2+2 Coupe making +650hp for $70k

[exitspeed]

Omg is this thing gorgeous.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/02/...racecar-debut/

[[240sx]]

^ That does look badass. Overs really fixed the rear end's proportions. The road car really needs wider arches, and bigger wheel opening!!!

[exitspeed]

Annnnnnd the C8.R! Call it generic looking if you want. Shit looks fucking rad imo.




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[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Annnnnnd the C8.R! Call it generic looking if you want. Shit looks fucking rad imo.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Game Over Man

Game Fucking Over

[exitspeed]

Murder was the case that they gave me.

Listen to the sound of this thing! It’s gonna be eating Ferrari’s and Lambo’s like NOTHING.

https://twitter.com/GeekyGearhead99/...606096896?s=20