The Future Automotive Thread

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

i think if the next 86 goes turbo and retains its weight / dimension and price range, it will be the most promising silvia successor. mid to late ?21 doesnt seem too far off

This is where I?be been at the whole time. I feel like the 86 is 60% of the car I want. Nothing is perfect, but it?s not quite enough to really want one. A little more power via a turbo and boom goes the dynamite. My o lot concern is at this point in my life I?m honestly not sure if I?ve matured beyond that kind of car. I hate that I feel that way but I honestly do. I feel like a 964 or a 993, F Type or new Supra or a new new Z would suit me better.

Fuck I?m old.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

The Ecoboost Mustang being 3500-3600lbs automatically disqualifies it from being called/ compared to a S16, or Silvia.



Silvia = sub 2999lbs



If Toyota/ Subaru can make the FR-S/ GT86/ BRZ sub 3000lbs there can be no excuses.



Lets just hope the GR86 does indeed get the 2.4T option and weighs less than 3000lbs...

The BRFRSGT86Z is a hard top Miata that weights 2,900lbs. A 1991 Miata was only 2,100lbs.

A Turbo S15 came in just a few pounds under 3,000. I think they are 2,875.

A '93 Fox Body ustang was 2,900lbs and some basic bolt ons drop it to 2,500lbs.

Reality is that is all 25 years ago now. Safety, Content, Comfort etc have all changed in expectation.

The BRFRSGT86Z is a slow seller because it's size and weight are its only positive attributes. Its more expensive then a base Pony, has less forward thrust, less space and feels like a shit box in comparison.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by Corbic

The BRFRSGT86Z is a hard top Miata that weights 2,900lbs. A 1991 Miata was only 2,100lbs.

A Turbo S15 came in just a few pounds under 3,000. I think they are 2,875.

A '93 Fox Body ustang was 2,900lbs and some basic bolt ons drop it to 2,500lbs.

Reality is that is all 25 years ago now. Safety, Content, Comfort etc have all changed in expectation.

The BRFRSGT86Z is a slow seller because it's size and weight are its only positive attributes. Its more expensive then a base Pony, has less forward thrust, less space and feels like a shit box in comparison.

1999 S15 Spec R weight: 2734lbs

FRS weight: 2,776 to 2,817 lbs
GT86 weight: 2,776 to 2,817 lbs
BRZ weight: 2,776 to 2,817 lbs

Ecoboost Mustang weight: 3,532 to 3,642 lbs

Nice try, though...


I'm 6'3" and have sat in several FRS/BRZ/GT86's and all of the Miata gens. The FRS/BRZ/GT86 has way more room in them compared to the Miata's. Not even close to a valid comparison...

Also, I'm sure the base pony can afford to feel less like a shit box, because of the almost 756lb weight difference.

[dorkidori_s13]

oh fucking hell... hate on the mustangs weight all you. go drive one.

i actually did, and guess what? the weight really doesnt matter. car felt EXACTLY like my S13. period!

also, with the factory upgrade packages from Ford/Shelby, you can have your Ecoboost Mustang running 12s RELIABLY and with factory backed warranty.

FRS is cute and all... but an S13 with an SR making 12psi on an S15 T28 will walk all over it (speaking from personal experience). FRS is gutless. sure its light weight, but let the evidence speak for itself about the motor. 12.5:1 compression ratio GTFO!!! honda isnt even that stupid!

[BryanSayWhat]

I don't "hate" the Ecoboost Mustang at all. It's just not in the same category "type" as the S-Chassis are. The weight alone makes it heavier than the RWD turbo Skylines...

I also don't have to drive one to point out that it weighs almost 756lbs more than a FRS/GT86/BRZ...

Also, a "stock" GT86 was still able to be half a second faster than a "stock" Ecoboost Mustang around Tsukuba Circuit:

Ford Mustang Ecoboost: 1:10:36

Toyota GT86 G 16" LSD: 1:09:778


I'll admit that the Ford backed 350hp package for the Ecoboost Mustang is pretty damn cool, but it still doesn't hide how much the Ecoboost Mustang weighs...

I mean could you imagine a sub (or, close) 3000lb Ford produced RWD car with the same above package available for it?

[Future240]

I'd say 97% of buyers for both cars will never see a track let alone care the GT86 is slightly faster.

I have not driven a GT86/brz/frs, but I have driven an Ecoboost.

Despite the weight it does not feel heavy. The power is there. I had to turn on traction control in a parking lot to keep the tires from spinning.

Sure the toyo/subie twins maybe a bit faster in the twisites but unlike them, the ecoboost you can just turn the boost up to negate that factor.

[kingkilburn]

The armchair car design vomit is knee deep in here. Big bold declarative statements about cars you've never driven based in opinions of thirty year old cars you've never driven either. It's honestly ridiculous.

My mom's sonata hybrid manages to feel and perform better than any 90s Japanese sports car I've been in. Technology has come a loooooooong way since then. A bigger, heavier car can massively out perform older powerhouses. Would it be nice to see Miata curb weights and big power. You bet your ass. Is it likely with today's emissions, safety, and fleet economy regulations. Not a chance.

But we can still have a good time in compelling cars with a shift of perspective and expectation



Edit

You guys also want to lump in modified s chassis and mustangs with stock 86s and BRZs like there aren't BOLT ON turbo kits pushing near 400hp with a simple flash tune. Start getting into the details of that platform like old fucks like us tend to do and even more power and driveability is there.

We have options today to fill the niche the s chassis did. We don't have to wait anymore.

[spooled240]

The Mustang is not only heavier, but also massive. The 86 is the true successor to the s15 spec s

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

My mom's sonata hybrid manages to feel and perform better than any 90s Japanese sports car I've been in.

There are quite a few "90s Japanese sports cars"... Can you be more specific?

Are you saying that your mom's "sonata hybrid" can "perform better" than a stock FD3S, S2K, GC8 STI, EVO I-VI, SW20, S15 Spec R, GTR, etc....?

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Technology has come a loooooooong way since then. A bigger, heavier car can massively out perform older powerhouses.

Yes, and it would be great to see companies put that same modern engineering into lighter weight cars. People talk about how much better suspension and braking are today... Well put that shit in an affordable sub 3000lb RWD car with 250+hp then.

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Would it be nice to see Miata curb weights and big power. You bet your ass. Is it likely with today's emissions, safety, and fleet economy regulations. Not a chance.

Most of us just want a sub 3000lb RWD car with 250+HP... It looks like the GR86 might be able to finally do that if it comes with the 2.4L Turbo.

Having a modern sub 3000lb RWD car with 255HP is pretty much what most S-Chassis enthusiast want... Dealing with restomods, bolt-ons and engine swaps isn't for everyone and can get old.

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Edit

You guys also want to lump in modified s chassis and mustangs with stock 86s and BRZs like there aren't BOLT ON turbo kits pushing near 400hp with a simple flash tune. Start getting into the details of that platform like old fucks like us tend to do and even more power and driveability is there.

I hope your right, but if what you say is true I'd think we'd be seeing a lot more boosted FRS/GT86/BRZ around...

Also, it was only dorki who made the modified S-chassis comparison... The Ford one is actually valid, because it's done through them and covered under warranty. Not everyone can afford buying a new/ used car and risk voiding the warranty for added engine performance.

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

We have options today to fill the niche the s chassis did. We don't have to wait anymore.

Not really... The FRS/GT86/BRZ is on par with a stock S13 K's model, but not the S15 Spec R.

What modern car comes close to filling the hp/ weight niche of the S15 Spec R? (by close I mean within 20hp, 200lbs and RWD)

Originally Posted by spooled240

The Mustang is not only heavier, but also massive. The 86 is the true successor to the s15 spec s

Thanks for posting this comparison. I think some on here needed to see/ re-see it...

[spooled240]

I'll also leave this here..

[kingkilburn]

SC300, Integra, Eclipse, FC... There's others. These modern cars are so damn rigid it doesn't seem to matter how heavy they are and what is a run of the mill engine today is just better that factory trim "gentlemen's agreement" engines. They don't feel as nice to drive but man do they go.

[dorkidori_s13]

youre whining about a car that BARELY exists in regards to the specs youre throwing out.

Mazda Miata and FRS/BRZ... literally the ONLY 2 modern day and commonly sold RWD sports car on the market thats sub 3000lbs. both are turds power wise.

Mustang, Corvette, Challenger, damn near every Porshe, Q60, all BMWs, Focus ST, etc etc etc ALL push passed 3000 (some over 4000). 3500lbs is the new 2800lbs. motor, chassis, suspension, drive train etc etc engineering all compensate for the weight.

all this crying and complaining about a sub 3000 RWD sports car is gonna do nothing but fill up a river in your own world. not being a dick, just being blunt and factual.

also, i wouldnt be surprised that when the 2nd gen FRS/BRZ/86 debuts with its turbo motor, its also gonna gain some weight.

the 90s are dead. perhaps its time to let go. if you really want a sub 3000lbs rwd sports car... go buy an S13 or S14 and build it right! youre gonna dump a lot of money into it... but at least it will suit what youre going on about.

[kingkilburn]

Sure. Crying and complaining. I'm not being a gaping asshole you just can't handle the truth. Look how much authority I speak with when I casually insult and pretend to have superior opinions of things.

This shit is specifically what I do not miss from this place. Bunch of soft assholes that can't just fucking talk without showing their asses. Heaven forbid they be disagreed with.

[zombiewolf513]

This morning you wanted someone to be banned for posting statistics you dont like wtf are on about

[kingkilburn]

Oh. You have a third account. Really committed to the racism.

[dorkidori_s13]

get that shit out of here right now. you wanna argue about accounts and what someone said regarding "racism", do it in PM PLEASE! please dont drag that crap in from another thread

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Sure. Crying and complaining. I'm not being a gaping asshole you just can't handle the truth. Look how much authority I speak with when I casually insult and pretend to have superior opinions of things.

wasnt respoding to you Kyle. was responding to the BryanSayWhat dingaling whos got Justin Timberlake on repeat.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

youre whining about a car that BARELY exists in regards to the specs youre throwing out.

all this crying and complaining about a sub 3000 RWD sports car is gonna do nothing but fill up a river in your own world. not being a dick, just being blunt and factual.

No one's "whining", or "crying and complaining" it's called a discussion... Seems like you're the one kind of getting worked up?

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

Mazda Miata and FRS/BRZ... literally the ONLY 2 modern day and commonly sold RWD sports car on the market thats sub 3000lbs. both are turds power wise.

Yet, both are only 50-70hp-ish away from not being "turds power wise". By that I mean having the power to be "more" exciting on a narrow winding road.

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

Mustang, Corvette, Challenger, damn near every Porshe, Q60, all BMWs, Focus ST, etc etc etc ALL push passed 3000 (some over 4000). 3500lbs is the new 2800lbs. motor, chassis, suspension, drive train etc etc engineering all compensate for the weight.

This is such BS... 3500lbs will never be the new 2800lbs. Go feed that shit to someone else that will listen. All of that "compensating engineering" would be superior when used on a sub 3000lb RWD sports car and you know it.

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

also, i wouldnt be surprised that when the 2nd gen FRS/BRZ/86 debuts with its turbo motor, its also gonna gain some weight.

I personally think the turbo 86 will still be sub 2900lbs. Defiantly sub 3000lbs. Who knows, maybe "modern engineering" will actually make things "stronger with less weight" like it's supposed to. Or, at the very least equal in strength, but with reduced weight.

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

the 90s are dead. perhaps its time to let go. if you really want a sub 3000lbs rwd sports car... go buy an S13 or S14 and build it right! youre gonna dump a lot of money into it... but at least it will suit what youre going on about.

I already have an 89 coupe pretty much already done (are they ever, though?). Why else would I be on here? lol

Just contemplating the future power plant:

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

wasnt respoding to you Kyle. was responding to the BryanSayWhat dingaling whos got Justin Timberlake on repeat.

Damn... What a sour individual. Why are you on forums if you can't handle discussions?

Really changes the way I thought about you as a person/ company...

Also, I don't get the Timberlake reference?

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by spooled240

I'll also leave this here..

God the S15 is still so good looking.

Also, manual Supra coming, cases closed for me unless Nissan truly knocks the Z out the park...which I don?t believe they can do (although I?m hoping they do).

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

God the S15 is still so good looking.

It sure is.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

Really changes the way I thought about you as a person/ company...

oh well. some times im a dick in conversation, it happens. really not gonna lose any sleep over it. who i am as a person versus who i am in business differ in that you choose to spend money with me, im going to make sure to provide you with the service you deserve because its business and far too few businesses nowadays in the car scene (or even in general) devote the amount of attention and care to customer satisfaction that i do. thats how i am in business because its important to me.

now if i feel like busting balls on a personal level via Zilvia because our opinion differs, take it with a grain of salt. weve all been here a LONG time.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

oh well. some times im a dick in conversation, it happens. really not gonna lose any sleep over it. who i am as a person versus who i am in business differ in that you choose to spend money with me, im going to make sure to provide you with the service you deserve because its business and far too few businesses nowadays in the car scene (or even in general) devote the amount of attention and care to customer satisfaction that i do. thats how i am in business because its important to me.

now if i feel like busting balls on a personal level via Zilvia because our opinion differs, take it with a grain of salt. weve all been here a LONG time.

Believe me, I'm all for goofing around and "busting balls". It just seemed like the dingaling/ Timberlake thing came with some personal hostility/ animosity. lol

I probably should've realized you were just being cheeky...

[simmode1]

Oh, so I see y'all back on that Silvia successor talk again... Just thought I'd drop in & let everybody know, in case y'all didn't already... Dudes are now dropping VR30DDTTS into 350Zs & G35s like they're damn SR swaps. Bolts right up with a few other bells and whistles.

Anybody interested?

[simmode1]

Fast forward to 7:25 for swap basics & cost estimates.

[Bluejayde]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

oh well. some times im a dick in conversation, it happens. really not gonna lose any sleep over it. who i am as a person versus who i am in business differ in that you choose to spend money with me, im going to make sure to provide you with the service you deserve because its business and far too few businesses nowadays in the car scene (or even in general) devote the amount of attention and care to customer satisfaction that i do. thats how i am in business because its important to me.

now if i feel like busting balls on a personal level via Zilvia because our opinion differs, take it with a grain of salt. weve all been here a LONG time.

Huh. But when I contacted you on July 11th regarding the email I sent previously (which was ignored) requesting a refund/replacement for the sideskirts I bought from you that won't even mount up, you told me that you were too busy and couldn't respond with a clear mind...

I see you have time to argue on Zilvia, I guess you're not losing sleep over your customer service either.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Oh, so I see y'all back on that Silvia successor talk again... Just thought I'd drop in & let everybody know, in case y'all didn't already... Dudes are now dropping VR30DDTTS into 350Zs & G35s like they're damn SR swaps. Bolts right up with a few other bells and whistles.

Anybody interested?

Ain?t nobody got time for that.

Seriously though, I ain?t got time for that. If/when I get a Supra/Z I probably won?t can mod it behind very basic bolt ons. I love how new cars feel and I don?t want to turn a comfortable sports car into a teeth chattering public nuisance.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by Bluejayde

Huh. But when I contacted you on July 11th regarding the email I sent previously (which was ignored) requesting a refund/replacement for the sideskirts I bought from you that won't even mount up, you told me that you were too busy and couldn't respond with a clear mind...

I see you have time to argue on Zilvia, I guess you're not losing sleep over your customer service either.

Im going to go ahead and not get into this problem with you on a public web forum as... 1) this is NOT the topic to do it in and 2) your response above is being made over circumstances and details that you are purposely leaving out.

We will continue this conversation via DM on IG and via email when I have time to properly tackle said issue.

[Corbic]

[kingkilburn]

Originally Posted by simmode1

Oh, so I see y'all back on that Silvia successor talk again... Just thought I'd drop in & let everybody know, in case y'all didn't already... Dudes are now dropping VR30DDTTS into 350Zs & G35s like they're damn SR swaps. Bolts right up with a few other bells and whistles.

Anybody interested?

These guys don't want to build or even own a fun car. They want to complain about a utopia that never was, the car that got away. They should rightly be excited about a chassis as capable as that with a powerplant like that in it. In fact they'll wax lyrical about how that's how it always should have been. That shit's fucking cool.

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

Im going to go ahead and not get into this problem with you on a public web forum as... 1) this is NOT the topic to do it in and 2) your response above is being made over circumstances and details that you are purposely leaving out.

We will continue this conversation via DM on IG and via email when I have time to properly tackle said issue.

Come on man.

[zombiewolf513]

Take it to the grumpy thread, shit