Porsche accuses Nissan GT-R of cheating the 'Ring - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

ZilviaBot · 10-01-2008, 10:40 PM

09-30-2008 08:02 AM

Click above for high-res gallery of the Nissan GT-R

Sour grapes or legitimate complaint? That's the question we're left pondering after reading that Porsche believes Nissan must have cheated to record its 7:29:03 lap time of the famed NÃ¼rburgring race circuit. Porsche claims that it had been suspicious of the Nissan's lap times, so it acquired a U.S.-spec GT-R for testing back-to-back with its own 911 Turbo and GT2. The result? The mighty Godzilla was toppled by the Teutonic German duo, with the GT-R posting times a good 25-seconds slower than Nissan's claim.

How can Porsche explain the discrepancy? "This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car. For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tires," says August Achleitner, the man in charge of the 911 program. There is footage of the GT-R lapping the 'Ring at high speed, but it's taken from inside the car where the tires cannot be seen.

Considering the fact that Nissan saw fit to issue a press release commemorating the car's fast-lap, we doubt this is something that will be taken lightly. There's a big can 'o worms here, and Porsche's in the corner holding the opener.

Gallery: In the Autoblog Garage: 2009 Nissan GT-R

[Source: Carsguide]

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JeremyR · 10-01-2008, 10:55 PM

i wouldnt be surprised if they did use different tires. run-flats arn't really performance oriented to begin with. they should be OPTIONAL, not standard.

even still it is an amazing car, and check out top gears lap times for it, simply astonishing.

drift freaq · 10-02-2008, 01:42 AM

I think Porsche is looking for any excuse possible to prove Nissan wrong. Of course run flats are not going to perform as well. For Porsche to just grab a showroom U.S, car to test against their GT2 one has to ask is there GT2 a U.S. spec showroom GT2 as well?

illvialuver · 10-02-2008, 04:34 AM

the Germans are just sore losers. they have been bitter since the days that the Z's came out and were beating 911's in the 70's.

usdm180sx · 10-02-2008, 08:24 AM

Angry German = sauerkraut?

twistedsymphony · 10-02-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xdarkrune

i wouldnt be surprised if they did use different tires. run-flats arn't really performance oriented to begin with. they should be OPTIONAL, not standard.

I think the problem is that for safety regulations the car must be equipped with either a spare tire or runflats...

it seems a lot of automakers are opting for run flats over a donut, I suppose it's easier to just install different tires then it is to design and build in locations to store a donut and jack.

...not to mention the concept of a run flat sells better than trying to convince someone that they don't have them because of the performance benefits.

SexPanda · 10-02-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usdm180sx

Angry German = sauerkraut?

Exactly. Angry Japanese guy= SoSueMe?

drift freaq · 10-02-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SexPanda

Exactly. Angry Japanese guy= SoSueMe?

lol you guys hahahhahhahhaha

The ROMAN · 10-02-2008, 11:26 AM

Porsche better be right in their accusations, otherwise I'm definitely not buying that 911 I wasn't considering.

If Porsche does turn out to be wrong, then it means that the GTR is impossibly fast and more kudos to the Nissan engineers.

Justin Bernstein · 10-02-2008, 11:31 AM

i think ill take the porshe around the track for a 15 minute lap time. then describe the results as objective.

usdm180sx · 10-02-2008, 01:20 PM

Looks like Nissan engineers are coming up too fast for Porsche to strike back engineering wise. Thus, the accusation was made. A marque of Porsche's stature should have just handled it differently. Sad indeed.

TheWolf · 10-02-2008, 02:49 PM

Either that or porsche knows they're right. I think in most track situations porsche would pwn the gtr. Stock vs Stock. Porsche brakes and oil coolers and suspension are just race duty parts where GTR isn't. Germans are analytical and if they say it's 29 seconds off with stock tires then it's probably a 20 lap computerized statistical analysis where the net result on a good day average is 29 seconds. Even bruno senna made a remark about that on 5th gear when he drove the two head to head. The GTR did great for one lap but with the weight of the car the performance could not be sustained.

rb25_s13*CHUKI · 10-02-2008, 03:30 PM

The fucking evo 10 Is faster than the porsche.. YouTube - Nissan GT-R v the World: GT-R v R8 v 911 v STI v Evo v Elise

Everyone Is hating on the GTR

***Future240*** · 10-02-2008, 04:15 PM

Sounds like porsche is jealous

*fliprayzin240sx* · 10-02-2008, 04:40 PM

They changed tires...big fucking whoop even if they did. If they changed the suspension, then that might be a legit moan and groan. Anybody can change tires. He'll most people who buy sportscars probably change tires anyway to cater their own personal needs. I know if I ever buy a sports car, im changing those bitches to AD07s quick.

twotoes · 10-02-2008, 04:55 PM

^^^ i can understand that its just tires, and i agree its no big deal. but lets say porsche is right, then nissan should have used the tires they used to claim that track time as the production model tires.

0100 · 10-02-2008, 05:05 PM

I beat the bot haha http://zilvia.net/f/2353375-post1003.html

I didn't cheat either.

renegade_ewok · 10-02-2008, 05:09 PM

No big deal?

Let porsche put some slicks on the 911 and the GT and take it around again...

You guys think Porsche would put this kind of schenanigans out without actually testing it a bunch of times? Walter Rohrl probably drove it around and said it can't be done. I'd take that source as reliable.

twotoes · 10-02-2008, 05:15 PM

lol yeah i guess your right, anything that can affect 25 seconds....is kind of a big deal. I agree that porsche is a legit ass company and i highly doubt they would make a statement like this without being able to back it up.

I cant wait to hear an official statement made by nissan about this.

The ROMAN · 10-02-2008, 07:20 PM

Not saying this is the end all or anything, but out of curiosity I looked up some times on top gear's test track:

8. 1:19.7 – Nissan GT-R
10. 1:19.8 – Porsche Carrera GT
18. 1:22.3 – Porsche 911 GT3 RS
41. 1:26.2 – Porsche 911 Carrera S

The 911 Turbo placed 78th with a time of 1.31.0, but the track was "very wet".

0100 · 10-02-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegade_ewok

No big deal?

+1, tire compound is a huge factor. Just by changing tire compounds you can drop seconds off your time, and that's just on an AutoX size course. It's why some classes let you run street tires, semi race, and full slicks.

If nissan didn't run the ring as we were let to believe "off the showroom" that is not good.

Either way the (personally not a fan) Viper ACR ran a 7:22. Goodnight ZR1 and GTR.

Video > 2009 Dodge Viper ACR on the Nurburgring | Concept Photos, Reviews, & More at Motortrend.com

Shift damn it

twotoes · 10-02-2008, 07:33 PM

^^^ ....god i know....im not a fan either but that thing is insane. Everything ive read on it basically describes it as the car Jesus would be rollin in. wow....dude on that vid doesnt like to shift does he?

but still.....

0100 · 10-02-2008, 07:55 PM

^Bwaahahahaha so true.

YouTube - Viper ACR vs Corvette ZR1 at The Nurburgring

DataXUnknown · 10-03-2008, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usdm180sx

Angry German = sauerkraut?

Sauerkraut's nickname is victory cabbage

therefore, Angry German = Victory Cabbage?

lol dunno maybe porshe is gunna bust these gt-r guys on somthin.

Eddie@Performance · 10-03-2008, 04:31 PM

Well that's simple to prove. Why not Nissan just put race slicks on the GT-R and post a much better time then the 7:29 to prove them it was factory tires, this will make em shut the hell up!

C. Senor · 10-03-2008, 05:10 PM

i dont know much about the gtr. i havnt stopped at the nissan dealer yet. but from what i remember reading its what, like 47x hp, and 44x torque, with a 0-60 at like 3.5 right? being that i havnt driven one, and will not likely ever will, i dont know how they handle. i do love nissan, but i also like porsche very much. the turbo is rated at 480hp, 460 torque, and a 0-60 of 3.4. now i dont think there is too much difference in handling between the two cars. but for the skyline to be 9 seconds faster than the turbo on that track is a huge difference. i dont know if the 25 seconds slower thing is real or porsche is just trying to make nissan look real bad. but it wouldnt surprise me that nissan did maybe change tires and gave them that 9 second advantage over the turbo. i honestly think that the skyline should be around the same time as the turbo. the gt2 is a very very limited production porsche that is now out of production again. it also boasts more power and less weight, with incredible handling. so to compare the skyline to the gt2 is not right. the gt2 i think did the ring in like what 1.30 or something real close to that. it of course is also twice the price of the gtr. i'm just trying to state things objectively.

fromxtor · 10-03-2008, 05:13 PM

The GTR comes with two tire options michelins or dunlops, the dunlops are not run flats IIRC so they may have provided better grip. Whereas porsche probably grabbed one with the crappy michelins on it.

EDIT** It's Bridgestones and Dunlops for the US cars, not sure which ones the Germans had.

C. Senor · 10-03-2008, 05:41 PM

^and porsche's use bridgestone and michelin. maybe they should run both cars using the bridgestones because they're probably the same tire. would only make sense....lol

Eddie@Performance · 10-03-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Senor

^and porsche's use bridgestone and michelin. maybe they should run both cars using the bridgestones because they're probably the same tire. would only make sense....lol

Which Porsche? Ive seen many come with Continental tires and Pirelli's.

Eddie@Performance · 10-03-2008, 06:23 PM

The GTR's we've had on our lots all had Dunlops. I havent come across any Bridgestone ones yet.

10-01-2008, 10:40 PM	#1
ZilviaBot Zilvia.net Bot Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 199 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Porsche accuses Nissan GT-R of cheating the 'Ring 09-30-2008 08:02 AM Filed under: Supercars, Nissan, Porsche *Click above for high-res gallery of the Nissan GT-R* Sour grapes or legitimate complaint? That's the question we're left pondering after reading that Porsche believes Nissan must have cheated to record its 7:29:03 lap time of the famed NÃ¼rburgring race circuit. Porsche claims that it had been suspicious of the Nissan's lap times, so it acquired a U.S.-spec GT-R for testing back-to-back with its own 911 Turbo and GT2. The result? The mighty Godzilla was toppled by the Teutonic German duo, with the GT-R posting times a good 25-seconds slower than Nissan's claim. How can Porsche explain the discrepancy? "This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car. For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tires," says August Achleitner, the man in charge of the 911 program. There is footage of the GT-R lapping the 'Ring at high speed, but it's taken from inside the car where the tires cannot be seen. Considering the fact that Nissan saw fit to issue a press release commemorating the car's fast-lap, we doubt this is something that will be taken lightly. There's a big can 'o worms here, and Porsche's in the corner holding the opener. Gallery: In the Autoblog Garage: 2009 Nissan GT-R [Source: Carsguide] ReadÂ\|ÂPermalinkÂ\|ÂEmail thisÂ\|ÂComments More...

10-02-2008, 01:42 AM	#3
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,562 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	I think Porsche is looking for any excuse possible to prove Nissan wrong. Of course run flats are not going to perform as well. For Porsche to just grab a showroom U.S, car to test against their GT2 one has to ask is there GT2 a U.S. spec showroom GT2 as well? __________________ "Having a lot of tracks on a song is like putting stickers on a car to get more horsepower" New Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uebV1OnbRsw Buy my mounts! http://zilvia.net/f/sale-items/51531...ns-mounts.html http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/317539...e-mouts-6.html

10-02-2008, 08:24 AM	#5
usdm180sx Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: 562 Posts: 4,807 Trader Rating: (5) Rides Gallery: usdm180sx Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Angry German = sauerkraut? __________________ -Norm! Last edited by usdm180sx; 10-02-2008 at 09:16 AM..

10-02-2008, 11:26 AM	#9
The ROMAN Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: NJ Age: 41 Posts: 730 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Porsche better be right in their accusations, otherwise I'm definitely not buying that 911 I wasn't considering. If Porsche does turn out to be wrong, then it means that the GTR is impossibly fast and more kudos to the Nissan engineers. Last edited by The ROMAN; 10-02-2008 at 02:51 PM..

10-02-2008, 01:20 PM	#11
usdm180sx Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: 562 Posts: 4,807 Trader Rating: (5) Rides Gallery: usdm180sx Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Looks like Nissan engineers are coming up too fast for Porsche to strike back engineering wise. Thus, the accusation was made. A marque of Porsche's stature should have just handled it differently. Sad indeed. __________________ -Norm!

10-02-2008, 04:34 AM	#4
illvialuver Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: M-A-R-S... MARS BITCHES Age: 41 Posts: 5,065 Trader Rating: (35) Feedback Score: 35 reviews	the Germans are just sore losers. they have been bitter since the days that the Z's came out and were beating 911's in the 70's.

10-02-2008, 11:31 AM	#10
Justin Bernstein Zilvia Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: wherever Age: 40 Posts: 171 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i think ill take the porshe around the track for a 15 minute lap time. then describe the results as objective.

10-02-2008, 02:49 PM	#12
TheWolf Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange Park, FL (Jax) Posts: 1,468 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Either that or porsche knows they're right. I think in most track situations porsche would pwn the gtr. Stock vs Stock. Porsche brakes and oil coolers and suspension are just race duty parts where GTR isn't. Germans are analytical and if they say it's 29 seconds off with stock tires then it's probably a 20 lap computerized statistical analysis where the net result on a good day average is 29 seconds. Even bruno senna made a remark about that on 5th gear when he drove the two head to head. The GTR did great for one lap but with the weight of the car the performance could not be sustained. __________________ Eye on the Prize

10-02-2008, 03:30 PM	#13
rb25_s13*CHUKI Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cali Age: 35 Posts: 2,759 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	The fucking evo 10 Is faster than the porsche.. YouTube - Nissan GT-R v the World: GT-R v R8 v 911 v STI v Evo v Elise Everyone Is hating on the GTR __________________ Obliterate

10-02-2008, 04:40 PM	#15
fliprayzin240sx Man w/ CTSV & a Car Seat Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 17,998 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: fliprayzin240sx Feedback Score: 19 reviews	They changed tires...big fucking whoop even if they did. If they changed the suspension, then that might be a legit moan and groan. Anybody can change tires. He'll most people who buy sportscars probably change tires anyway to cater their own personal needs. I know if I ever buy a sports car, im changing those bitches to AD07s quick. __________________ If you think Zilvia has too many assholes... CLICK HERE!!!

10-02-2008, 04:55 PM	#16
twotoes Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kansas City Age: 36 Posts: 293 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^^ i can understand that its just tires, and i agree its no big deal. but lets say porsche is right, then nissan should have used the tires they used to claim that track time as the production model tires.

10-02-2008, 05:05 PM	#17
0100 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New England Posts: 1,581 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	I beat the bot haha http://zilvia.net/f/2353375-post1003.html I didn't cheat either. __________________ TougeHero.com l SilviaV8forums.com

10-02-2008, 05:09 PM	#18
renegade_ewok Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NYC Age: 36 Posts: 450 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	No big deal? Let porsche put some slicks on the 911 and the GT and take it around again... You guys think Porsche would put this kind of schenanigans out without actually testing it a bunch of times? Walter Rohrl probably drove it around and said it can't be done. I'd take that source as reliable.

10-02-2008, 05:15 PM	#19
twotoes Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kansas City Age: 36 Posts: 293 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	lol yeah i guess your right, anything that can affect 25 seconds....is kind of a big deal. I agree that porsche is a legit ass company and i highly doubt they would make a statement like this without being able to back it up. I cant wait to hear an official statement made by nissan about this.

10-02-2008, 07:20 PM	#20
The ROMAN Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: NJ Age: 41 Posts: 730 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Not saying this is the end all or anything, but out of curiosity I looked up some times on top gear's test track: 8. 1:19.7 – Nissan GT-R 10. 1:19.8 – Porsche Carrera GT 18. 1:22.3 – Porsche 911 GT3 RS 41. 1:26.2 – Porsche 911 Carrera S The 911 Turbo placed 78th with a time of 1.31.0, but the track was "very wet".

10-02-2008, 07:33 PM	#22
twotoes Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kansas City Age: 36 Posts: 293 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^^^ ....god i know....im not a fan either but that thing is insane. Everything ive read on it basically describes it as the car Jesus would be rollin in. wow....dude on that vid doesnt like to shift does he? but still.....

10-02-2008, 07:55 PM	#23
0100 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New England Posts: 1,581 Trader Rating: (12) Feedback Score: 12 reviews	^Bwaahahahaha so true. YouTube - Viper ACR vs Corvette ZR1 at The Nurburgring __________________ TougeHero.com l SilviaV8forums.com

10-03-2008, 04:31 PM	#25
Eddie@Performance Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Duarte, CA Posts: 445 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Well that's simple to prove. Why not Nissan just put race slicks on the GT-R and post a much better time then the 7:29 to prove them it was factory tires, this will make em shut the hell up! __________________ PERFORMANCE NISSAN IN DUARTE My Direct Line 626-739-1968 or TOLL FREE 1-866-211-7389 For All Your Nissan Parts Needs! 1434 Buena Vista St Duarte, CA 91010 Where the 210 & 605 Freeways meet, Buena Vista Exit! My Garage: 1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin-Turbo (modded weekend car) 2008 Suzuki GSX-R750 (Race/Weekend bike) 2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited (Daily stock and boring) 2002 Honda VFR800 Interceptor V-TEC (Sport Touring Bike)

10-03-2008, 05:10 PM	#26
C. Senor Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: cali Posts: 3,488 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	i dont know much about the gtr. i havnt stopped at the nissan dealer yet. but from what i remember reading its what, like 47x hp, and 44x torque, with a 0-60 at like 3.5 right? being that i havnt driven one, and will not likely ever will, i dont know how they handle. i do love nissan, but i also like porsche very much. the turbo is rated at 480hp, 460 torque, and a 0-60 of 3.4. now i dont think there is too much difference in handling between the two cars. but for the skyline to be 9 seconds faster than the turbo on that track is a huge difference. i dont know if the 25 seconds slower thing is real or porsche is just trying to make nissan look real bad. but it wouldnt surprise me that nissan did maybe change tires and gave them that 9 second advantage over the turbo. i honestly think that the skyline should be around the same time as the turbo. the gt2 is a very very limited production porsche that is now out of production again. it also boasts more power and less weight, with incredible handling. so to compare the skyline to the gt2 is not right. the gt2 i think did the ring in like what 1.30 or something real close to that. it of course is also twice the price of the gtr. i'm just trying to state things objectively. __________________ Don't forget to tell your mom, she ran out of eggs this morning!

10-03-2008, 05:13 PM	#27
fromxtor Post Whore! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NC Age: 43 Posts: 3,012 Trader Rating: (23) Feedback Score: 23 reviews	The GTR comes with two tire options michelins or dunlops, the dunlops are not run flats IIRC so they may have provided better grip. Whereas porsche probably grabbed one with the crappy michelins on it. EDIT It's Bridgestones and Dunlops for the US cars, not sure which ones the Germans had. __________________ Seller feedback>>**http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...light=fromxtor

10-03-2008, 05:41 PM	#28
C. Senor Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: cali Posts: 3,488 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	^and porsche's use bridgestone and michelin. maybe they should run both cars using the bridgestones because they're probably the same tire. would only make sense....lol __________________ Don't forget to tell your mom, she ran out of eggs this morning!

10-03-2008, 06:23 PM	#30
Eddie@Performance Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Duarte, CA Posts: 445 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	The GTR's we've had on our lots all had Dunlops. I havent come across any Bridgestone ones yet. __________________ PERFORMANCE NISSAN IN DUARTE My Direct Line 626-739-1968 or TOLL FREE 1-866-211-7389 For All Your Nissan Parts Needs! 1434 Buena Vista St Duarte, CA 91010 Where the 210 & 605 Freeways meet, Buena Vista Exit! My Garage: 1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin-Turbo (modded weekend car) 2008 Suzuki GSX-R750 (Race/Weekend bike) 2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited (Daily stock and boring) 2002 Honda VFR800 Interceptor V-TEC (Sport Touring Bike)