pick up a few more tenths in the ka

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by S14DB

I would love to see your guys EGT's and then your pistons and exhaust valves in 10k miles.

I just think it's funny that none of these guys that advance there timing probably even know that there warping there piston rings.
Or the fact that they had no rebudle to your statement....LOL
S14DB is a pimp!!!! Better reckognize.....

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

I just think it's funny that none of these guys that advance there timing probably even know that there warping there piston rings.
Or the fact that they had no rebudle to your statement....LOL
S14DB is a pimp!!!! Better reckognize.....

It's easy to argue when you notice a slight gain and your engine doesn't blow up immediately. Hard to argue with someone that doesn't have an understanding of ignition or cam timing.

[Ichi-Go]

Please do not mention hybridka in your arguement. I do not want that forum to be related to your ignorance. You referred to that tune as the Juan Willy tune? The reason it was called the Jaun Willy tune is becuase Jim Wolf might be kinda mad when he finds out that people are stealing his tunes and using them for free. Are you saying you are going to steal from Jim Wolf, why dont you man up and buy my JWT ecu for 200 bucks instead of stealing intellectual property.

I think you need to research the way a ECU actually works becuase if you bump your base timing it increases the timing in every single area on the ignition map.

Also I always felt a torque increase when timing was advanced. I would like to see a dyno chart showing that HP is increased and torque is lost.

[ryan hagen]

Originally Posted by Ichi-Go

Please do not mention hybridka in your arguement. I do not want that forum to be related to your ignorance. You referred to that tune as the Juan Willy tune? The reason it was called the Jaun Willy tune is becuase Jim Wolf might be kinda mad when he finds out that people are stealing his tunes and using them for free. Are you saying you are going to steal from Jim Wolf, why dont you man up and buy my JWT ecu for 200 bucks instead of stealing intellectual property.

I think you need to research the way a ECU actually works becuase if you bump your base timing it increases the timing in every single area on the ignition map.

Also I always felt a torque increase when timing was advanced. I would like to see a dyno chart showing that HP is increased and torque is lost.

to make the car run properly though you should have the ignition tuned via the ecu, not by turning the distributor, in the event of something happening sensor or fuel wise (maf going out) your limp home mod will not be able to function properly because it is counting on that you have it set at 20, not 30. you run the risk of messing things up down the road. when that dyno power increase was charted did you comapre it to what it looked like previous. by bolting on parts and adjusting things like that you rarely make a power increase across the whole curve, normally you shift it around with out a proper tune, there are some things that increase the power across but not many, and one thing you ll notice is you can trade torque for hp, depends on what kinda dyno queen you want.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by Ichi-Go

Please do not mention hybridka in your arguement. I do not want that forum to be related to your ignorance. You referred to that tune as the Juan Willy tune? The reason it was called the Jaun Willy tune is becuase Jim Wolf might be kinda mad when he finds out that people are stealing his tunes and using them for free.

There aren't copy writes on tunes, and secondly that tune isn't used anymore. You cannot patent tunes, just names. If Jim Wolf doesn't call it Juan Willy there defenitely isn't a problem, and you have to be stupid to think that JWT programmers don't visit that site to begin with.
I'm defenitely not the first nore the last to let the cat out of the bag.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by Ichi-Go

I think you need to research the way a ECU actually works becuase if you bump your base timing it increases the timing in every single area on the ignition map.

I've been researching for years. Everytime you bump timing via the distributor you are heating the plugs and increasing knock, why is that so hard for people to understand?????? we are also talking about a stock ecu nothing that has been changed to seeing less knock...

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by S14DB

It's easy to argue when you notice a slight gain and your engine doesn't blow up immediately. Hard to argue with someone that doesn't have an understanding of ignition or cam timing.

First off, we're not discussing cam timing.

Second, how much time should I give before my engine melts down? It hasn't done it in over year, maybe another year? I've also done multiple 30 minute sessions on track spending the majority of the time at WOT. Of course it's going to run hotter, that's the fundamental way that an engine makes power. Do you honestly think that by bumping the timing that I'm running any hotter then adding a turbo to the car?

Please explain the difference between adjusting the timing by 10 degrees with the distributor vs adjusting the timing map inside the ECU by 10 degrees..

[tre]

Originally Posted by jmauld

First off, we're not discussing cam timing.

Second, how much time should I give before my engine melts down? It hasn't done it in over year, maybe another year? I've also done multiple 30 minute sessions on track spending the majority of the time at WOT. Of course it's going to run hotter, that's the fundamental way that an engine makes power. Do you honestly think that by bumping the timing that I'm running any hotter then adding a turbo to the car?

Please explain the difference between adjusting the timing by 10 degrees with the distributor vs adjusting the timing map inside the ECU by 10 degrees..

Is this like adding fuel by increasing fuel pressure vs dumping more through the ecu? Yet it still works the same IF you know what you're doing? lol

[tre]

IF that graph is correct about plug temp. I'm gonna go buy some colder plugs now ^_^

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by tre

IF that graph is correct about plug temp. I'm gonna go buy some colder plugs now ^_^

I don't think it's a bad idea to use colder plugs. I switched the last time I did a tune-up.

[tre]

OH btw. In a "100 Cheap hp gains" I think its called. In a magazine. THey tored down an sr swapped 240 with the cheapest things you could do for hp. And they did manually advance the distriubtor. And gained 3 hp. Forgot the magazine :P

[kompressorlogic]

vinnie you make all these posts saying that reducing duty cycle is dangerous and, advaning the distributer is dangerous...

so the real question well what do you do when your actually tuning??

the only way to make more hp wiht the same setup is a tune that is obiously not as rich as stock, and a more agressive timing curve( well thats the same as advancing isnt it!!?? so you are contradicting your self)

YES moving the dist is a crude way to do it, but its still changing the curve

so what kind of changes are you making when you "tune" cuase your basicly doing close to the same thing just with a more percise method....

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by kompressorlogic

the only way to make more hp wiht the same setup is a tune that is obiously not as rich as stock, and a more agressive timing curve( well thats the same as advancing isnt it!!?? so you are contradicting your self)

YES moving the dist is a crude way to do it, but its still changing the curve

You seriously need to read some books on ignition timing. Base timing at the distributor is completely different than the ignition timing that comes from the ecu. Base timing heats plugs, ignition timing changes the engines functions and works in conjunction with the fuel map, this will keep plug tempratures cool. In this day and age with the technology that is offered it is stupid to tune in such a crude manner to advance the distributor to think it actually makes power. You don't make additional power, you just move power somewhere else. Especially since the fuel map hasn't changed to the timing of the distributor. All I say is truth, so maybe you need to start reading books or go to wyotech.......

[jmauld]

To be so smart big guy, you still haven't come up with an answer to why I saw a HP and Torque increase when I moved my distributor... Your only answer is that it didn't happen. How convenient of you to ignore the facts, that I've offered you. I guess it's just easier to be an ignorant ass.

BTW, per the PM you sent me. I could care less if you charge people to build their engines and tune their cars. That doesn't make you any less wrong.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by jmauld

To be so smart big guy, you still haven't come up with an answer to why I saw a HP and Torque increase when I moved my distributor... Your only answer is that it didn't happen. How convenient of you to ignore the facts, that I've offered you. I guess it's just easier to be an ignorant ass.

You are doing this all on recollection of memory and still have not proven to the forum a dyno chart which you expressed that you tuned your self and saw these gains. Changing timing just manipulates the power band and how you want to make power from your engine, it will not add to more torque and HP by simply moving the distributor, there are so many other factors involved that I could probably write a book on it.
Years ago I use to tell people that it was O.K to advance at the distributor, but learning from proffesionals, it isn't correct unless I tune the ecu first.
Stock factory setting's beyond having a 7% enrichment in fuel to the engine is still optimized by Nissan to perform well to those particular setting's. Without changing the constant variables to it's ratio on the ecu tune, you won't be making any more power than what Nissan already has to offer. Enhancing the devices will be the only way you can truely ADD power..

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

You are doing this all on recollection of memory and still have not proven to the forum a dyno chart which you expressed that you tuned your self and saw these gains.

And you've yet to show a Dyno Chart that proves your view. You've only shown one chart with no comparison runs on it. What was your base timing during the run?

Here are my dyno charts. One is scan of the chart that I received that day. It shows my best runs of one day versus my best run on a previous day.




Below is a chart that shows my initial run before any mods, compared to my best runs from two following visits to the dyno. You'll notice that I have lost no torque at any point.



I've offered the raw data of all of my runs for you to analyze yourself. Don't accuse me of not offering it to you.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by jmauld

Kompressor logic also wanted a A/F ratio sheet^^^^, theres one right there, and it seems that I'm on the nail with the ratio. above 4000RPM the ratio rides more between 14~12 on the A/F. Anything below 12 is all bad.....
Without the bolt ons the engines A/F would be more around in the high 14's.

[tre]

Oh btw. I ran my advanced distributor for 30k miles. No problems what so ever.

I've ran it for 5k miles on this engine still no problems.

[tre]

I've just got a quick question. how many times at the drag strip are you below 4000RPM besides launching? How many times are you below 4000 at any track event?

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by tre

I've just got a quick question. how many times at the drag strip are you below 4000RPM besides launching? How many times are you below 4000 at any track event?

Well my shift point on the KA is about 6000~6200RPM.
So when I upshift I am still way below 4000RPM. I work on picking up the majority of the torque band.... I don't rev the KA like an sr to 7000RPM if that is what your saying....

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

Well my shift point on the KA is about 6000~6200RPM.
So when I upshift I am still way below 4000RPM. I work on picking up the majority of the torque band.... I don't rev the KA like an sr to 7000RPM if that is what your saying....

(Assuming you're using a 240sx transmission)
If you shift at 6000RPM, here is where you would land in each gear.

2nd: 3400RPM
3rd: 4100RPM
4th: 4600RPM
5th: 4600RPM

I refer you back to my chart. You'll notice an improvement in torque across the that entire range.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by jmauld

(Assuming you're using a 240sx transmission)

Well the werner synchros wether 240sx or (sr20det silvia are the same gear ratio's) Both consisting of the FS5W71C transmission. You can also use older FS5W71B transmissions and they came with a slightly different gear ratio's....

[tre]

well i rarely see below 4k

[tre]

well i rarely see below 4000rpm

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by jmauld

(Assuming you're using a 240sx transmission)
If you shift at 6000RPM, here is where you would land in each gear.

2nd: 3400RPM
3rd: 4100RPM
4th: 4600RPM
5th: 4600RPM

I refer you back to my chart. You'll notice an improvement in torque across the that entire range.

Yeah but how much does it suck if you use your car as a daily driver as well, and you shift at 4000RPM. Then there are problems with the loss of some low end torque below that 3000rpm, you would think that you would want to keep that early momentum instead of droppiong it. Especially if you have a passenger or 2.
Don't you want to keep the momentum in first gear as well??? Getup off the line is most important, if you drop a substantial amount of low end in first alone you are dropping the 1/4mile time since fist gear uses the least amount of energy and power to get the momentum you want started, it's also the only gear that uses the entire power band in the 1/4mile. I can see how you say, "well I want all the power in the higher RPM", that is understandable
since you still are shifting past 4 other gears in the higher power band range. But you think that you would want a much broader range to use instead of just keeping it all (mid and high end), the KA is a stroker that is known for it's massive torque momentum in the earlier RPM range I don't know why people chose to defeat that purpose...

[jmauld]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

Yeah but how much does it suck if you use your car as a daily driver as well, and you shift at 4000RPM. Then there are problems with the loss of some low end torque below that 3000rpm, you would think that you would want to keep that early momentum instead of droppiong it.

Actually, it doesn't suck at all, I didn't notice a driveability difference from this. If you want to talk about driveability issues, let's discuss my hotshot header, which made me 3hp, cost $300 and makes the exhaust a lot louder. I've seen others claim a decent increase with it, but it just didn't do much on my car.

There is a valid argument for not doing the timing adjustment to a daily driver and that's because it requires you to run premium gas.

[tre]

The purpose of an N/A build is all high end power, strung out power. Like i've said before dad's friend put out to the crank 325hp 250tq. His previous engine which was an oem build (except for cams) was 289hp and 249tq.

Personally I dont notice a difference in my low end. Plus with how slow people accelerate these days it doesnt matter.

[tre]

^^ dude go with the greddy 4 into 1 IF you canfind one. header is awesome

[jmauld]

I was thinking of trying out the S&S header. But I wish someone else would do a back to back test comparing some of the headers first.

One good thing I can say about the Hotshot header, is that it weighed almost half of the weight of the pieces that it replaced. Since I didn't get much HP from it, I just tell people that I paid that much for a 15lb weight savings.

[tre]

hahaha, everyone usally makes a knock off of hotshot. Hotshot was the original header that JWT carried. Greddy I belive made the only other header that was different. I've heard of some other 4 to 1's but i haven't seen any.