Touge Factory K-series Swap Kit

[tuzzio]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

they jump through all these hoops to make it fit and work properly. but in the end, its either poorly executed or not fully functional or just not fully refined.

I actually back this really hard, and agree with it.

A lot of good points and conversation in this thread. And nobody is mad...at eachother....yet (afterall, its zilvia.)

That being said. In my opinion for my application and how I street my car, I think apples to apples, if my car was a "blank" canvas again, I'd likely go with the k-swap over my KA. I love my KA and have no plans to switch power plants, but it's hard to say I don't have an expensive KA, and i think spending X amount on my KA set up, to spend a little more on a functional K24 set up with more potential in areas I like, wouldn't bother me.

For someone who wants a 300whp car, I don't think this is the swap for them unless they want to have something slightly less popular than an SR or a KA-T. However, with these kits coming out, you know other manufacturers will jump on the band wagon (lets take bets on how long it takes for ISR to develop a swap kit) within the next 5 years, I almost imagine these will be the next super common swap. 5 years ago there wasn't that many JZ powered S-chassis, now EVERYONE is doing it.

[foreverdeath]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Yeah the 5858 is the smallest I would go to be honest. Something like a Borgwarner S257SXE in a 1.00 housing would also be pretty awesome. The smallest efr I would run would be 7163. Xonarotor also makes a 6157s that might be cool.



Half the cost for half the powerband

I have a S257SXE 1.00A/R twin scroll on my k24a2 s13 and its nuts anything more then just cruising Above 3k and I'm in boost. I think a bigger housing would be better drivin it on the street its ether slow in the low revs or in boost and VTEC(3200rpm) scootn.


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[ixfxi]

people actually want cars like that? looks like a half finished science experiment

[thegr8one013]

The Kseries engines are a great engine. theyre very cheap and there are so many aftermarket parts avaliable for them, and most importantly they put out great power in stock form. the best part about these engines is the vtec. You can have very wild cams and still be able to idle like a stock motor.

My two concerns with this swap are:
1. everyone lowers theyre car and it effects roll center. now add that spacer (which is thin but still effecting roll center) you just made it worse.

2. After you add everything up its the same cost as installing a ls1 swap. You have a stock motor with twice the displacement and twice the torque. I spent $2500 in parts to put my $5000 stock 2004 gto swap. this was many years ago, so i am pretty sure the cost of a ls1 motor/ trans setup is much cheaper..

[foreverdeath]

You don't have to space down the subframe, or atleast I didnt with mine. They added the spacer to help with two things. First old pan to rack bracket clearance. To get the motor low enough to have the crank at the same level as a KA or SR the oil plan flange must nearly sit on the passenger rack bracket. I modded my subframe and passenger rack bracket to make the bracket as low profile as possable without moving my rack. Secondly the K24 is it tall to fit under the hood without notching the vavle cover or lowering the subframe. Even modding my subframe and a custom oil pan I only got the front of the vavle cover to be a few mm above the hood skin.



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Kingtal0n]

I like the engine

as someone said above, the cost in dollars is only fraction of true cost.

Average turbo 'swaps' are 10 to 20k regardless of what drivetrain chosen.


The devil is in the details. Every swap has nit-pick bullshit to deal with that, if you don't know or don't care or can't tell (not a great mechanic/tuner) it will constantly be down, blowing engines, leaking, whatever, just from stupid things happening.

In other words, I think am saying that it doesn't matter what engine you choose, as long as you are good mechanically and capable tuning, your expectations will be accurate and the vehicle will maintain it's inherent value and be fun to drive.

happy swapping

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by foreverdeath

I have a S257SXE 1.00A/R twin scroll on my k24a2 s13 and its nuts anything more then just cruising Above 3k and I'm in boost. I think a bigger housing would be better drivin it on the street its ether slow in the low revs or in boost and VTEC(3200rpm) scootn.

This is cool! Ever had it on the dyno? I'd love to see that torque curve. It's hard to find people running these turbos and I think they're really underrated.

Originally Posted by foreverdeath

You don't have to space down the subframe, or atleast I didnt with mine. They added the spacer to help with two things. First old pan to rack bracket clearance. To get the motor low enough to have the crank at the same level as a KA or SR the oil plan flange must nearly sit on the passenger rack bracket. I modded my subframe and passenger rack bracket to make the bracket as low profile as possable without moving my rack. Secondly the K24 is it tall to fit under the hood without notching the vavle cover or lowering the subframe. Even modding my subframe and a custom oil pan I only got the front of the vavle cover to be a few mm above the hood skin.

Yes, The TF-works kit is as far back and as far down as you can go. You can't even fit a vent filter on the rear valve cover nipple, TF cuts that off and welds that closed. I think the spacers are only for people running unmodified hoods.
https://www.tf-works.com/faq-kswap/

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by thegr8one013

The Kseries engines are a great engine. theyre very cheap and there are so many aftermarket parts avaliable for them, and most importantly they put out great power in stock form. the best part about these engines is the vtec. You can have very wild cams and still be able to idle like a stock motor.

My two concerns with this swap are:
1. everyone lowers theyre car and it effects roll center. now add that spacer (which is thin but still effecting roll center) you just made it worse.

2. After you add everything up its the same cost as installing a ls1 swap. You have a stock motor with twice the displacement and twice the torque. I spent $2500 in parts to put my $5000 stock 2004 gto swap. this was many years ago, so i am pretty sure the cost of a ls1 motor/ trans setup is much cheaper.

1. Yes it will. Don't run the spacers and do something else with the hood.

2. LS1 dropouts still cost about the same, popularity has kept costs high. There are pros and cons to everything, and we all know that LS's have issues. For some people/applications a turbo K-series presents a better powerband or package.

[tuzzio]

Some seriously good info in that link. Props to them for that

[foreverdeath]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

This is cool! Ever had it on the dyno? I'd love to see that torque curve. It's hard to find people running these turbos and I think they're really underrated.



Yes, The TF-works kit is as far back and as far down as you can go. You can't even fit a vent filter on the rear valve cover nipple, TF cuts that off and welds that closed. I think the spacers are only for people running unmodified hoods.
https://www.tf-works.com/faq-kswap/

Yes but I dont like the power drop off after 6k. I hope to clean it up with porting my intake and gasket matching. Soon I'll go back for a retune. I will say on 14 and e85 245/45r17s were struggling in 3rd...

I cant find the pic right now but I belive it's in my build thread on here. I belive it was only on pump and 10psi

It seems like they got theres alil further back from reading. I got mine in the OE la postion. Using a cd009 the KA cd009 shift fit. And I only had to trim a little bit if the back side of the shifter hole. I wonder how that affects k24 upper coolant housings and the lower/tstat. As each runs into either the driver mount or gets close to the firewall.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[PoorMans180SX]

[foreverdeath]

I was looking at TFs turbo manifold to bad its only vband so I can't run my borg on it but, but I noticed something very interesting. To get the more so far back with cutting the subframe, where I opted to cut of the seam and TIG it shut, they put the pick up front of the oil pump. So the pan actully protudes infront of the motor.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by foreverdeath

I was looking at TFs turbo manifold to bad its only vband so I can't run my borg on it but, but I noticed something very interesting. To get the more so far back with cutting the subframe, where I opted to cut of the seam and TIG it shut, they put the pick up front of the oil pump. So the pan actully protudes infront of the motor.

Correct. Also, there is a v-band turbine housing available for your turbo, but you’d probably lose the same kinda response as moving to the big twin-scroll housing.

[foreverdeath]

I couldnt find one for the s200 series but do for the similar sized EFR. I'm not tryn to move to the manifold persay. But am looking at redesigning mine so a s300 or larger frame EFR wont leave the hood. Also being my the first manifold I've made I dont give it a long life expectancy, it really was only intended to get the same going anyways.

I dont wana loss twin scroll and my manifold runners are equal length within ~2% when I designed it in inventor.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by foreverdeath

I dont wana loss twin scroll and my manifold runners are equal length within ~2% when I designed it in inventor.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Ahhhh makes sense why yours sounds good!

[foreverdeath]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Ahhhh makes sense why yours sounds good!

I really need to remove the 1st resonator so it actully make it sing more then just turbo spool and dual 44mm wastegate dump. Once that cat back vband fell off and it was musical but way too loud dumping under the passenger seat to be on the street. The gaurds at the ECP for my ship could hear me start it up and RIP on it from about 1/2mi away.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Slick Vick]

Please continue this thread, very knowledgeable material!!!

On that note, has anyone done a full swap meaning all the bells and whistles ( AC/PS, etc). I am highly interested in this swap since currently I am driving around a bare bones 240. I would love to see if you can turbo this motor plus have all the fancy amenities while still having a dependable daily.

[foreverdeath]

I have PS on mine using the honda pump. AC will be a challenge ether mount it on the exhaust side in a NA setup. Or leave the AC in the factory location, which might cut into the oil pan designs of TF or mine and run electric PS.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Slick Vick]

Originally Posted by foreverdeath

I have PS on mine using the honda pump. AC will be a challenge ether mount it on the exhaust side in a NA setup. Or leave the AC in the factory location, which might cut into the oil pan designs of TF or mine and run electric PS.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Doesn't sound bad, in terms of reliability how is it so far? Have you noticed any weird kinks? I also have read somewhere that handling changes due to the motor being farther back, have you noticed this?

[RalliartRsX]

^^ Doubt the engine is that much further back in comparison to a SR considering the coolant port and several other accessories on that "side" of the engine.

[foreverdeath]

Originally Posted by Slick Vick

Doesn't sound bad, in terms of reliability how is it so far? Have you noticed any weird kinks? I also have read somewhere that handling changes due to the motor being farther back, have you noticed this?

Check out my build thread. It sits in the factory KA/SR location, TF may have theres an inch further back... not much room to shift it back really. Cant beat honda for reliability. No kinks really just engineering/fitment challenges. I did have to replace the engine when I slightly bent a rod with 13.5psi on e85 tho...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Slick Vick]

Originally Posted by foreverdeath

Check out my build thread. It sits in the factory KA/SR location, TF may have theres an inch further back... not much room to shift it back really. Cant beat honda for reliability. No kinks really just engineering/fitment challenges. I did have to replace the engine when I slightly bent a rod with 13.5psi on e85 tho...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Dude that build is a work of love
Have you considered going all motor? Check these guys motor build out. http://blog.wiseco.com/the-500-horse...ine-by-4piston
I know, I know those dudes used methanol and lots of custom parts but still sick none the less. Gives hope to a possible all motor build.

[Def]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

The Touge Factory oil pan is like an 8 quart capacity.

It's not a question of volume, but one of dimensions and oil control. A shallow pan that's wide has poor oil control, and you need a really good baffle setup to keep that around a submerged pickup.

Ideally we'd all have small diameter, really deep oil pans. You'd get good oil aeration (lots of head pressure to bottom of pan), and you could take ridiculous lateral/longitudinal G's before uncovering the pickup.

But that's impossible to package, so we compromise on smaller factory sumps and try to add baffles to control the oil a little.

Obviously with how many people have smoked K motors in a RWD longitudinal layout, they've got some real problems with oil control in the space provided.

[foreverdeath]

Originally Posted by Slick Vick

Dude that build is a work of love

Have you considered going all motor? Check these guys motor build out. http://blog.wiseco.com/the-500-horse...ine-by-4piston

I know, I know those dudes used methanol and lots of custom parts but still sick none the less. Gives hope to a possible all motor build.

It is and thank you.

Not really. I think NA for a drift car unless you got a big wallet asks for an LS and I'm against them cause of weight and balance. Yes, with porting, cams, a good head, 3 inch exhaust, and 9-10,000rpm capable block 400s is achievable on e85. Also to note their 500hp motor is a 2.7l with aluminum rods which would require deep pockets to build an rebuild every season. It makes good power 5k but I doubt it would be street able like a turbo car.


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[RalliartRsX]

Also Im almost 100% certain thier 500hp 4 banger is on a fairly exotic fuel

Jamie Marsh.made.similar power and I recall he was on a nitro methane mix or something along those lines

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by Def

It's not a question of volume, but one of dimensions and oil control. A shallow pan that's wide has poor oil control, and you need a really good baffle setup to keep that around a submerged pickup.

Obviously with how many people have smoked K motors in a RWD longitudinal layout, they've got some real problems with oil control in the space provided.

Agreed. It seems they have this sorted with the latest pan design, but we shall see. They're going to continue testing and running the car on track.

Originally Posted by Slick Vick

Dude that build is a work of love
Have you considered going all motor? Check these guys motor build out. http://blog.wiseco.com/the-500-horse...ine-by-4piston
I know, I know those dudes used methanol and lots of custom parts but still sick none the less. Gives hope to a possible all motor build.

Yeah, this really doesn't have much of an application outside of a drag race class-specific build. While it's very cool, it's not very practical for anyone without plenty of money to "waste"

You could definitely have around 300whp with a built NA K24, and you could run it on E85. I think would be a really fun setup if you really wanted the simplicity of an NA build. Anything past that and I think it makes a lot more sense to just use a turbocharger or supercharger.

Keep in mind that things like this could be developed for this application as well! I think this is really rad.

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by Def

Obviously with how many people have smoked K motors in a RWD longitudinal layout, they've got some real problems with oil control in the space provided.

I really hope Touge Factory wouldn't go through all the trouble of designing and fabricating the parts for this swap and sell an oil pan that isn't going to work and leads to everyone blowing their engines that uses it.

Now if they're still testing the oil pan on their car, they shouldn't be selling these pans to customers already without verifying they're going to work.

[foreverdeath]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I really hope Touge Factory wouldn't go through all the trouble of designing and fabricating the parts for this swap and sell an oil pan that isn't going to work and leads to everyone blowing their engines that uses it.

Now if they're still testing the oil pan on their car, they shouldn't be selling these pans to customers already without verifying they're going to work.

only time will tell. i cant say for them, but i know i haven't lost oil pressure yet. although i haven't been to the track with it yet with aggressive on/off ramps I've maintained pressure so far so i believe it is possible.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by TheRealSy90

I really hope Touge Factory wouldn't go through all the trouble of designing and fabricating the parts for this swap and sell an oil pan that isn't going to work and leads to everyone blowing their engines that uses it.

Now if they're still testing the oil pan on their car, they shouldn't be selling these pans to customers already without verifying they're going to work.

I mean, the car does have 285 NS-2R's all the way around and aero to match. I'm sure if it's good on that thing it'll be good on 99% of the builds it goes in.

[k00laid83]

I think it's awesome that Touge Factory is offering this kit! Way to go on the wiring PoorMans180sx!! I love seeing quality parts and quality work bro