This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 84 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

onehundredoctane · 03-01-2011, 08:03 AM

silly question (and sorry if it's been asked already).

when trying to correct front suspension geometry on a lowered car, why hasn't anyone just re-drilled the bolt points for the front lower control arm where it bolts to the sub-frame?

EDIT: Yes I realize the sway bar and tension rod bolt points on the lower control arm would be a stupid angles in this scenario, but both of these are easily corrected imo.

PoorMans180SX · 03-01-2011, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onehundredoctane

silly question (and sorry if it's been asked already).

when trying to correct front suspension geometry on a lowered car, why hasn't anyone just re-drilled the bolt points for the front lower control arm where it bolts to the sub-frame?

Read through the first few pages. It changes the relationship between the LCA and the steering rack/tie rods, and would make for some nasty bumpsteer. You'd have to move your rack up as well.

SicBastard · 03-01-2011, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Read through the first few pages. It changes the relationship between the LCA and the steering rack/tie rods, and would make for some nasty bumpsteer. You'd have to move your rack up as well.

Couldn't you just put a spacer above the outer tie rods to correct that? The spl parts even include "T2024 spacers" that should work perfect.

PoorMans180SX · 03-01-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SicBastard

Couldn't you just put a spacer above the outer tie rods to correct that? The spl parts even include "T2024 spacers" that should work perfect.

Unless you're low enough to need those spacers anyway. Then you have to think about the arcs of the control arm vs the tie rod. Are they going to be in sync now?

roboticnissan · 03-01-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobne

I really need this kit for the s13 chassi. When will it be available??

is that the front control arm?? when is this gonna be available?

onehundredoctane · 03-01-2011, 11:29 AM

But then you could use a rack spacer like this, instead of installing it in this oreintaion you could rotate it 90 degrees clockwise. Your thoughts. . . ?

PoorMans180SX · 03-01-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onehundredoctane

But then you could use a rack spacer like this, instead of installing it in this oreintaion you could rotate it 90 degrees clockwise. Your thoughts. . . ?

Ask nieko how he likes it. He moved his a little up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roboticnissan

is that the front control arm?? when is this gonna be available?

S-chassis front lower arm/tension rod combo should be available this month according to Dan's last report.

GripTerror · 03-01-2011, 12:37 PM

isnt it gonna be the full package with the drop spindle?... and will they address the issue of having some kind of lock limiter for grip guys as i run pretty beefy 295s up front... i wants to buyz...

Mobne · 03-01-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roboticnissan

is that the front control arm?? when is this gonna be available?

Actually this is for the s chassi. Found the picture at side 50 or something.

singlecamslam · 03-01-2011, 01:03 PM

Anyone got a price estimate for the MAX kit? Are we looking at like 1k range?

Mobne · 03-01-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlecamslam

Anyone got a price estimate for the MAX kit? Are we looking at like 1k range?

Really hope its not that expensive because i want this kit

ballinnmiami240sx · 03-01-2011, 04:30 PM

I want those rack spacers......When can i buyz?

PoorMans180SX · 03-01-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlecamslam

Anyone got a price estimate for the MAX kit? Are we looking at like 1k range?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripTerror

isnt it gonna be the full package with the drop spindle?... and will they address the issue of having some kind of lock limiter for grip guys as i run pretty beefy 295s up front... i wants to buyz...

It's just the FLCA/tension rod combo. I highly doubt they will combine it with their knuckle service.

You could have them just do the ball joint mount drop on your knuckles, and not their angle kit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballinnmiami240sx

I want those rack spacers......When can i buyz?

Driftworks GeoMaster - Offset Rack Spacers Driftworks Shop

Rack or spacers need to be modified for correct LHD fitment.

nieko · 03-02-2011, 02:20 AM

Do people even SEMI read threads anymore? Holy shit...

Slidin' Sam · 03-04-2011, 02:26 AM

So, back in Jan. I was talking about a conversation I had with Shinji from HeyMan! about steering knuckles. He was explaining how if you shorten the knuckle too much, it makes the steering too fast, and the rear of the car will oversteer TOO much and your car will feel very loose.

Well flash forward to the other day. I was watching a TV show on NASCAR wrecks and stuff. I noticed that every time a car would spin out, the driver would countersteer the car (duh), but the steering angle was minimal! Then it dawned on me, NASCAR's need a lot of grip for the driving they are doing. I believe one way they get some grip is by the steering set-up. Their cars are set up with slower steering, which results in more rear grip.

I just thought I would try to explain this here, maybe it will help some people understand knuckles more, idk. Hopefully I made sense in this post, lol

Def · 03-04-2011, 08:34 AM

Slower steering ratio gives you no more grip.

Faster steering is only a problem if the driver is so unskilled they can't adjust to it.

codyace · 03-04-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slidin' Sam

Well flash forward to the other day. I was watching a TV show on NASCAR wrecks and stuff. I noticed that every time a car would spin out, the driver would countersteer the car (duh), but the steering angle was minimal! Then it dawned on me, NASCAR's need a lot of grip for the driving they are doing. I believe one way they get some grip is by the steering set-up. Their cars are set up with slower steering, which results in more rear grip.

The other thing to consider with Nascar's minimal steering angle is the fact that they realyl don't need much to begin with...with the way they are setup, and to help the drivers for endurance, it takes only a minimal amount of wheel movement to make them go where they need to...if the wheels had huge arcs lock to lock, they'd be in much more accidents.

It's not so much grip dependent, it's just how to keep them safe at 190mph

PoorMans180SX · 03-04-2011, 10:09 AM

I think sometimes in Japan, philosophy trumps logic.

GripTerror · 03-04-2011, 10:17 AM

our cars suck in rear grip thats all

PoorMans180SX · 03-04-2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GripTerror

our cars suck in rear grip thats all

Well if they suck in rear grip, they REALLY suck in front grip.

It's really just that people suck at balancing the suspension, which is the reason this thread was made.

Om1kron · 03-04-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieko

Do people even SEMI read threads anymore? Holy shit...

No, it's Zilvia. the answer to half of the questions on this site are 3 posts above the questions.

1. hey guys I got hot dogs at pinks, they're delicious.
2. man those dogs look good.
3. yum (mglngth)
4. i'm hungry now.
5. excuse me can you explain where you got these hot dogs from, I would like to try them out in my stomach someday.

WELCOME TO ZILVIA!!!

nieko · 03-04-2011, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Well if they suck in rear grip, they REALLY suck in front grip.

It's really just that people suck at balancing the suspension, which is the reason this thread was made.

THISSS.

I've noticed such huge improvements on my car.

I want to go to a damn road course and see what this thing can really do now.

Def · 03-04-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieko

THISSS.

I've noticed such huge improvements on my car.

I want to go to a damn road course and see what this thing can really do now.

You will want to raise up your car. You'll find that you'll be pulling more lateral G's and needing much more suspension travel.

Just a little suggestion so you enjoy yourself first time out on track.

articdragon192 · 03-05-2011, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieko

THISSS.

I've noticed such huge improvements on my car.

I want to go to a damn road course and see what this thing can really do now.

I'm always ready to go...

mmdb · 03-05-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieko

THISSS.

I've noticed such huge improvements on my car.

I want to go to a damn road course and see what this thing can really do now.

yo I forget but did you get the driftworks spindles? I haven't bothered reading the last million posts hehe. if so let's hit up streets of willow. I was able to test out the front gp sports knuckles, but now with the driftworks knuckles I'm curious to know how they are.

Csomme · 03-10-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmdb

yo I forget but did you get the driftworks spindles? I haven't bothered reading the last million posts hehe. if so let's hit up streets of willow. I was able to test out the front gp sports knuckles, but now with the driftworks knuckles I'm curious to know how they are.

Are you fucking kidding me? I hope this is a joke...

nieko · 03-10-2011, 11:33 AM

Why do you hope it is a joke? I'm quite confused.

Oh, because of the not checking through the whole thread huh? lololol

singlecamslam · 03-10-2011, 12:19 PM

Honestly who the hell is going to read 84 pages to get one simple answer thats on page like 45.

PoorMans180SX · 03-10-2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlecamslam

Honestly who the hell is going to read 84 pages to get one simple answer thats on page like 45.

Someone who is actually interested in learning instead of shoveling out their opinion to everyone.

singlecamslam · 03-10-2011, 01:20 PM

I read all 84 pages already, i was talking about Nieko and his DW knuckles. Plus most of the info is on the first page.

03-01-2011, 04:30 PM	#2502
ballinnmiami240sx Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: gloucester, VA Age: 45 Posts: 517 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	I want those rack spacers......When can i buyz? __________________ 1994 FD3S Drift // 945garage // sumospeed.com

03-04-2011, 02:26 AM	#2505
Slidin' Sam Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Japan Posts: 729 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	So, back in Jan. I was talking about a conversation I had with Shinji from HeyMan! about steering knuckles. He was explaining how if you shorten the knuckle too much, it makes the steering too fast, and the rear of the car will oversteer TOO much and your car will feel very loose. Well flash forward to the other day. I was watching a TV show on NASCAR wrecks and stuff. I noticed that every time a car would spin out, the driver would countersteer the car (duh), but the steering angle was minimal! Then it dawned on me, NASCAR's need a lot of grip for the driving they are doing. I believe one way they get some grip is by the steering set-up. Their cars are set up with slower steering, which results in more rear grip. I just thought I would try to explain this here, maybe it will help some people understand knuckles more, idk. Hopefully I made sense in this post, lol __________________

03-04-2011, 08:34 AM	#2506
Def Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,701 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Slower steering ratio gives you no more grip. Faster steering is only a problem if the driver is so unskilled they can't adjust to it. __________________ S13 Hatch - Goes around tracks quickly DEFSPORT

03-04-2011, 10:09 AM	#2508
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 5,574 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	I think sometimes in Japan, philosophy trumps logic. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

03-01-2011, 08:03 AM	#2491
onehundredoctane Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Greensborough, NC Posts: 2,783 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	silly question (and sorry if it's been asked already). when trying to correct front suspension geometry on a lowered car, why hasn't anyone just re-drilled the bolt points for the front lower control arm where it bolts to the sub-frame? EDIT: Yes I realize the sway bar and tension rod bolt points on the lower control arm would be a stupid angles in this scenario, but both of these are easily corrected imo.

03-01-2011, 11:29 AM	#2496
onehundredoctane Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Greensborough, NC Posts: 2,783 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	But then you could use a rack spacer like this, instead of installing it in this oreintaion you could rotate it 90 degrees clockwise. Your thoughts. . . ?

03-01-2011, 12:37 PM	#2498
GripTerror Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Canada Age: 39 Posts: 685 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	isnt it gonna be the full package with the drop spindle?... and will they address the issue of having some kind of lock limiter for grip guys as i run pretty beefy 295s up front... i wants to buyz...

03-01-2011, 01:03 PM	#2500
singlecamslam Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 2,534 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Anyone got a price estimate for the MAX kit? Are we looking at like 1k range?

03-02-2011, 02:20 AM	#2504
nieko Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Westminster Age: 33 Posts: 2,695 Trader Rating: (14) Feedback Score: 14 reviews	Do people even SEMI read threads anymore? Holy shit...

03-04-2011, 10:17 AM	#2509
GripTerror Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Canada Age: 39 Posts: 685 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	our cars suck in rear grip thats all

03-10-2011, 11:33 AM	#2517
nieko Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Westminster Age: 33 Posts: 2,695 Trader Rating: (14) Feedback Score: 14 reviews	Why do you hope it is a joke? I'm quite confused. Oh, because of the not checking through the whole thread huh? lololol

03-10-2011, 12:19 PM	#2518
singlecamslam Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 2,534 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	Honestly who the hell is going to read 84 pages to get one simple answer thats on page like 45.

03-10-2011, 01:20 PM	#2520
singlecamslam Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Norcal Posts: 2,534 Trader Rating: (10) Feedback Score: 10 reviews	I read all 84 pages already, i was talking about Nieko and his DW knuckles. Plus most of the info is on the first page.