LS1 powered S14 with motorplates and modded GTO pan

[5upra]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

The ONLY reason big money race teams don't use active aero is that it is outlawed in pretty much every, single sanctioned body in existence.

But if I ever hit the lottery and came up with the 4 grand it would be ideal for unlimited time attack classes and hill climbs!

I do know they are outlawed in the NORMAL "racing"...but even with the hillclimbers especially I know of none.

[GSXRJJordan]

Play in the bearings is not good - the heims I get (in M16x2.00 size) have a sheer force of 17.7k lbs, chrome ball, chrome plated shank, 16* misalignment and teflon race for much cheaper than Aurora... less than half. With shipping, the Seals-it boots I got were like $7/ea lol, they're very expensive, but packed with grease I think they offer OEM-like reliability.

[SicBastard]

5uprqa, it looks like you might be right. Most of the hill climbs in North America just use SCCA rules. Which, like you said, probably outlaw active aero

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

Play in the bearings is not good - the heims I get (in M16x2.00 size) have a sheer force of 17.7k lbs, chrome ball, chrome plated shank, 16* misalignment and teflon race for much cheaper than Aurora... less than half. With shipping, the Seals-it boots I got were like $7/ea lol, they're very expensive, but packed with grease I think they offer OEM-like reliability.

Yeah I wouldn't reccomend these mazdaspeed endlinks... I had high hopes with them coming from an OEM and all. I want to get my car back on the road, so instead of mailing them back I'm going to mount 'em today and hope I get at least 6 months out of them before the clanking starts.

What ball-ends do you use, FK?

[SicBastard]

I wish I had known about these two weeks ago. They claim to use "High quality, American made, Teflon lined rod ends." Live and learn. @ $135 less than I could make them for.
Advanced Autosports Suspension and Steering

[SicBastard]

from post 170
MAX backspace Front~ 150-159mm
MAX backspace Rear~ 172-179mm

When I made these determinations
I was taking advertized wheel widths, deviding by 2, and adding the advertized offset to calculate backspace. As cnichols recently pointed out to me, that only gets you the backspace to the inside of the inner lip! True backspace is to the outside of the wheel, not the inside of the lip that holds the tire.

This picture should help explain:
This is a pic of my rear wheels 17x10.5 +27.
Using my previous calculations would yield a back space of
(10.5x25.4)/2 + 27 = 160.35 mm
which is 13.65mm off from the actual measured backspace of 174mm


So how well does a 174mm backspace 17" wheel fit the rear of an s14?
My new Ohlins shock body is 49.7mm in diameter and sits exactly 13mm from the above wheel.

And 22.8mm from the front edge of the lower control arm


and no clearance issues to the rear


With the coilovers up high no problem


With them low... uh...
sill clears, but...






So if you're about to order a new set of custom CCW wheels what backspace to you ask for? Less than 174+13= 187 (7.362")

Max Frontspace with stock fenders: (calculated using my old method)
S13 Front 95-105 (thatguy looks great at 99)
S13 Rear 80-95
S14 Front 109-116
S14 Rear 97-117 (107 really is perfect with a good r+p)

So far I've only done the roll and pull on my drivers side rear fender.
I took this measurement directly below the back edge of the rear window.

Looks like my R+P gave me an extra 38mm over stock. Presuming both sides have the same depth of well. And It damn near looks stock too!
Stock Passenger Side


My current front space, from hub face to outer tire edge is
(25.4x10.5)/2 - 27 = 106.35mm

I probably could use a 10mm spacer and still be fine with my fender clearance, but I doubt that I could pull the fender much more without it looking weird.

So lets call it a max frontspace of 115mm and a max backspace (only to the outertire edge) of 170mm would yield a wheel 285mm (11.22"). If you go any bigger you're going to have to do something drastic to your fenders. Also, to pull this off, your coils will probably have to sit higher than the tire.

I would really like to own the redline time-attack street class some day. The current rules only allow tires upto 285s, and forbid inboard/cantilevered dampers. I think that a 11.22" wheel would be perfect for 285/30/18 tires. Personally I'd order up four of them all with the same <7.362" backspace and just use whatever spacer and fenders are necessary in the front.

I've also been hunting for an inexpensive cast wheel that that would come as close as possible to this. I was looking at the rpf1, but it only comes in +15 (wasting a lot of space). The knock off ford wheels come in 18x10 +27 but I've heard that they weigh 31lbs! The closest thing that I've found so far are the 18x10.5 +30 Enkei nto3+m; they weigh less than 22lbs and cost around $350 a piece.

[SicBastard]

Looks like a toyo 888 would fit that 11.22" wheel just right
315/30ZR18 reccomended wheel widths 10.5-11.0-11.5

and for the nto3+m 10.5" wheel
285/30ZR18 reccomended wheel widths 9.5-10.0-10.5

[SicBastard]

YouTube - Truth in 24 - 60 Second Trailer

http://www.gpny.com/launch08/index.php

Hey guys,

This bad ass movie is on ESPN tomarrow from 8-10pm.
It is also being aired at GPNY on their big screen.
Admission is FREE.
It's located a little north of Yonkers.
You need to be there by 7:30 to get a seat.
They have a really nice bar and restaurant, oh and go-karts!
I'm taking the supercharged miata up there, their parking lot is always like a freaking car show. If anyone wants to meet up that's where I'll be.

[GSXRJJordan]

you're in trouble

The passenger side fender of S14's sits about 10mm closer to the wheel. I have absolutely no idea why, but I've noticed it on every single S-chassis car I've done wheel fitment work on - one side ALWAYS fits "more sunk" than the other.

When I did my overfenders in the back (using 18x12 +0 Works), I noticed that I still needed to flare my overfenders out more than the stock 40mm - not a big deal on the driver's side, the overall flare ended up about 55mm.

When I went to do the passenger side (alignment was exactly the same/untouched @ 1* camber), to get the fender over the 285/30 tire, I had to flare it even more - ended up about 65mm.

Good luck with that pull on the passenger side :/ I love the fact that you're doing all the measurements though, I thought I was the only one

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

you're in trouble

The passenger side fender of S14's sits about 10mm closer to the wheel. I have absolutely no idea why, but I've noticed it on every single S-chassis car I've done wheel fitment work on - one side ALWAYS fits "more sunk" than the other.

When I did my overfenders in the back (using 18x12 +0 Works), I noticed that I still needed to flare my overfenders out more than the stock 40mm - not a big deal on the driver's side, the overall flare ended up about 55mm.

When I went to do the passenger side (alignment was exactly the same/untouched @ 1* camber), to get the fender over the 285/30 tire, I had to flare it even more - ended up about 65mm.

Good luck with that pull on the passenger side :/ I love the fact that you're doing all the measurements though, I thought I was the only one

Thanks for the warning Jordan. At least now, I won't think that I'm going crazy when I'm workin it for that last mm. I wonder if the difference has something to do with the gas door.

[Maximamike]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

YouTube - Truth in 24 - 60 Second Trailer

http://www.gpny.com/launch08/index.php

Does Yury ever drive his S14 up there? I wondering if they're hiring..

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

you're in trouble

The passenger side fender of S14's sits about 10mm closer to the wheel. I have absolutely no idea why, but I've noticed it on every single S-chassis car I've done wheel fitment work on - one side ALWAYS fits "more sunk" than the other.

When I did my overfenders in the back (using 18x12 +0 Works), I noticed that I still needed to flare my overfenders out more than the stock 40mm - not a big deal on the driver's side, the overall flare ended up about 55mm.

When I went to do the passenger side (alignment was exactly the same/untouched @ 1* camber), to get the fender over the 285/30 tire, I had to flare it even more - ended up about 65mm.

Good luck with that pull on the passenger side :/ I love the fact that you're doing all the measurements though, I thought I was the only one

LOL! My s-13 is like that. The passenger's side rear tire is noticeably more sunk in then the driver's side. I thought I was the only one.

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

Presuming both sides have the same depth of well.

You know what they say about when you presume...

[GSXRJJordan]

That's ASSume... lol.

The S13 was backwards from teh S14, for me at least - driver's side was "more sunk" on the S14, driver's side was "more flush" on the S13. Since all the arms are the same length, it has to be something with the frame/subframe. I didn't mention it when I first spotted it, years ago, because I thought my car must have been crashed or something, but it seems to be that everyone's car is like that.

[mmdb]

Yo Sic. Just going back to the roll center adjusters. I installed a set of GP sports hyper knuckles which added 40mm of adjustment to the front. Makes a night and day difference in handling once the front arms are parallel. I did add moonface roll center adjuster for the rear as well, so overall balance feels much better. Check out nissanroadracing ->suspension and there's a thread concerning roll center. I have some pix in there. It's definitely worth the fix, whichever way you go to correct it.

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by mmdb

Yo Sic. Just going back to the roll center adjusters. I installed a set of GP sports hyper knuckles which added 40mm of adjustment to the front. Makes a night and day difference in handling once the front arms are parallel. I did add moonface roll center adjuster for the rear as well, so overall balance feels much better. Check out nissanroadracing ->suspension and there's a thread concerning roll center. I have some pix in there. It's definitely worth the fix, whichever way you go to correct it.

MMDB, ballin as ever! GP sports hyper knuckles are a definite/proper fix for sure! They look like the real deal. The fact that all these great parts are still being developed for the s-chassis make me glad that I choose it for my build. I would be concerned about the new, faster steering for a road race car though, I'm sure it makes modulating steering inputs more difficult at 10/10ths. I'm also sure it's tits for a drift car where crazy weight transfer is the name of the game. Do you disagree? I noticed that Bill at DSG is taking the steering quickener OUT of his 240maxi. As a rule, I'm going to try and copy as many of his ideas as I can, until I get on track and start making my own informed tweaks.

[SicBastard]

I've really been interested in aerodynamics since I was a kid, and have toyed with the idea of having my own aluminum extruded wings made off of existing naca/nasa/sae airfoils. But recently Emelio at 949 racing mentioned in his blog that he had gotten some substantial downforce by combining 3 apr extruded wings into a single compound wing. It turns out APR will even make custom lengths for you! APR has a resaler local to me, Fizz Autosports, so I called them to ask if they would let me trace the profiles of any of their apr wings so I could do my own cfd analisys. They were afraid to let me remove the allen bolts holding on the end plates, but gave me apr performance's direct phone number. The help line then gave me their r&d e-mail, saying that they had their own cfd for their 3D carbon wings, but not for their 2D alluminum wings. Here's the e-mail I just sent to their R&D.

I'm building a car for redline time attack and hill climbs. The slower speeds of the hillclimbs, neccesitates a higher Cl than current wing offerings can provide. Current rules limit the dimensions of my wing to a chord of 14" and length of 68", and do not exclude compound wings. An acquantence of mine, Emilio at 949racing, said that he had been able to get some substantial downforce by piecing together 3 of your extruded wings into a compound airfoil. I was wondering if you had and CFD information available on your different, individual aluminum wing profiles, or if you had used any known naca/nasa wing profiles in building your aluminum wings? If so which profiles did you use and at what chord length? If you didn't use known airfoils, will you please forward me some pictures or illustrations of the profiles that you have available including the name you use for ordering, and their chord lengths?

It'll be interesting to see what I get back.

[5upra]

Maybe I missed it but are you building for attack/climb? If so why the GM power? I can see it for redline since those are mainly factory cars, but the ls7 is a big slow motor that has torque on its side. Why not use somehting with more revs/quicker?

[kingkilburn]

The LS can be made to rev just as high as an SR.

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by 5upra

Maybe I missed it but are you building for attack/climb? If so why the GM power? I can see it for redline since those are mainly factory cars, but the ls7 is a big slow motor that has torque on its side. Why not use somehting with more revs/quicker?

Its not an old school BBC LS7. Have you ever run through the gears of a new corvette? I have. And even with 3.42 gears and a 52 lbs clutch/flywheel the stock LS2 will be bouncing off the revlimiter faster than you can remember to shift

[GSXRJJordan]

Originally Posted by SicBastard

Its not an old school BBC LS7. Have you ever run through the gears of a new corvette? I have. And even with 3.42 gears and a 52 lbs clutch/flywheel the stock LS2 will be bouncing off the revlimiter faster than you can remember to shift

I absolutely concur. Driving my Dad's C5 Z06, the LS-series motors rev insanely fast, and are actually kinda peaky in my opinion - with both car's in 5th on the freeway, my SR takes off just as fast as his supercharged LS6 until we both hit about 4000rpm.

Another way of putting it, in the pop's supercharged LS6, he picks up 200ft-lbs of torque from 4000 to 6000 rpm. With a redline at 6800rpm, that's a peaky motor, especially when compared to a RB or SR, which has much more torque in the middle than at the top.

[5upra]

please excuse the sentence,but screw the SR/RB. I am talking like a BMW V8. It is true and thanks for pointing that out kingkilburn that anything can be made to rev as high as an SR. I believe but don't quote me that the C6R only runs upto 8200. Since I am planning a build for a LS series I know the ls6 hyd lifters are good to 8000. Plus I have heard some interesting stories about LS7's blowing at the track in cars straight from the factory.

[GSXRJJordan]

Originally Posted by 5upra

please excuse the sentence,but screw the SR/RB. I am talking like a BMW V8. It is true and thanks for pointing that out kingkilburn that anything can be made to rev as high as an SR. I believe but don't quote me that the C6R only runs upto 8200. Since I am planning a build for a LS series I know the ls6 hyd lifters are good to 8000. Plus I have heard some interesting stories about LS7's blowing at the track in cars straight from the factory.

And this, folks is why comparing motors used in competition to "built" street motors is not always apples to apples.

The C6R is a Le Mans car - being so, it's subject to horsepower restriction. As such, they actually limit the red line substantially, to maximize torque "under the curve", but still slide in under the 600hp limit (I believe that's still what it is) that GT1 imposes. If I recall, the actual C6R's redline is below 6500rpm.

That's not to say that it can't rev higher - pushrods and lifters are definitely good to 8000, but the question is why?

And LS7's have been reported to have oil starvation issues, causing "engines to blow up straight from the factory" - they've had a couple tech bulletins, and I know the C6 Z06 guys are no longer screaming bloody murder like they were when the first couple engines blew (and GM didn't want to warranty them), so I assume it's been addressed.

[5upra]

I should have specified that I was referring to a GMPP C6R motor not a LeMans car.

That's not to say that it can't rev higher - pushrods and lifters are definitely good to 8000, but the question is why?

this is a thought behind my question of why ls7

[GSXRJJordan]

Originally Posted by 5upra

I should have specified that I was referring to a GMPP C6R motor not a LeMans car.

this is a thought behind my question of why ls7

There's no way I'd pay the premium that GM (or junkyards) want for an LS7 per se, but that's not to say that I wouldn't want a small-block 427! When you think about Chevy motors, remember that it has the biggest aftermarket of any motor series, and that there is ALWAYS someone building a motor for specifically what you want.

[5upra]

There's no way I'd pay the premium that GM (or junkyards) want for an LS7 per se, but that's not to say that I wouldn't want a small-block 427! When you think about Chevy motors, remember that it has the biggest aftermarket of any motor series, and that there is ALWAYS someone building a motor for specifically what you want.

It doesn't mean its your best option

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by 5upra

It doesn't mean its your best option

I started this build before the LS3 was available. Right now I truely believe that a 415 LS3 build is probably the best $/performance going right now. But an LS3 based motor will always come up short compared to an LS7, I don't care how much porting you throw at it.

That being said, if you look at the flow of the LS7 head compared to anything short of $4000 BBC race heads you'll understand. The only reason that I'm saying the stroked LS3 might be a better deal is that the LS7 requires a big bore block, that runs about $2500. Though I've seen them go used under $1800.

I'm building the engine myself, and won't be paying "premium" for anything. Considering the great deal that I got on the LS7 heads (less than a grand), and presuming I can get a block under 2k, this still is "the best option". 670 crank hp n/a that will last 25k miles is no joke.

[SicBastard]

Builds been on a slight hold while I'm preparing for a liscensing exam. But yesterday I went with my girl to this really nice seafood restaurant here in Long Island. It's finally crested 69 degrees here in the NE, and we took the miata with it's supercharger and Link fuel management computer. The valets were standing there but I just parked my self anyway. And as we were walking into the restaurant they were kinda pushy about getting my keys. So I finally just handed the Dick my keys not wanting to make a scene, for my girls sake. The aftermarket ECU surges a bit, doesn't like light throttle, and requires ~30 seconds of waiting in the accesory position to turn on, prime the fuel pump, and sync the cam and crank angle sensors, before it will let you ignite the engine.

We had a great dinner and when we came out instead of getting bent out of shape, I just handed the Dick my valet stub, then whispered to my girl, "Watch this, this is going to be funny." Of course the Dick couldn't get it started, my little miata is parked between some $100k Mercedes and Jaguar turning over and over. We both laughed as the Dick came back with his head held low and handed me back my keys without looking me in the eyes. Then we hopped in the car, and because I waited the requisit time before turning it over, it started instantly. All the valets were watching as it started right up, and with a little creative clutching pulled out as though it was dead stock. As I drove past the Dick I said, "There was a reason I didn't want to give you my keys." My girl thought that was a good show.

[IIIXziuR]

Dru did anyone ever tell you that you are a Sic Bastard?

Good story though, I too hope to someday embarrass valet parking attendants.

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by IIIXziuR

Dru did anyone ever tell you that you are a Sic Bastard?

Not nearly often enough...

I'd say lets go to the NY autoshow again this year. But, it's going to be nothing but weak-sauce, eco-friendly, garbage, with a few exotics that you can't get within 10 feet of, sprinkled in.

[SicBastard]

Well I'm mad cash strapped until I get a job after I graduate in June, so I put some parts up for sale on e bay. The Ohlins are up for sale if you think you're crafty and can get them back together with a reserve of $100. I'm probably also going to list my black billet hi mount alternator bracket, and c5 throttle peddle with TAC.

eBay Motors: Ohlins Nissan 240sx coilovers S14 JDM silvia springs (item 130302376520 end time May-01-09 13:54:26 PDT)

I also rolled out to the weekly car gathering in the parking lot of Best Buy in Woodbury last night. I couldn't believe how many guys rolled out there. Good time, smelled like gas and burn outs.