This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

As far as I know, no one has actually taken measurements of the Driftworks knuckle, compared to stock, and made them public knowledge.

When my friend modified mmdb's set for sphericals
they just looked like a drop knuckle to us, no special geometry corrections
granted we didn't take measurements
cheap crappy split poly bushings since they don't hold the bushings bores to a precise ID
everything shalacked with nasty thick orange paint

and as I mentioned z32 e-brake wouldn't work as advertised
they claim their new version takes care of this but I can't find nor get an answer of evidence

but for the money they're pretty good value imo
I've even considered getting a set
mmdb loves his set

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

When my friend modified mmdb's set for sphericals
they just looked like a drop knuckle to us, no special geometry corrections
granted we didn't take measurements
cheap crappy split poly bushings since they don't hold the bushings bores to a precise ID
everything shalacked with nasty thick orange paint

and as I mentioned z32 e-brake wouldn't work as advertised
they claim their new version takes care of this but I can't find nor get an answer of evidence

but for the money they're pretty good value imo
I've even considered getting a set
mmdb loves his set

There is a picture a page back. az_240 just bought them and his Z32 e-brakes fit, and he says the urethane bushings are nice now.

Originally Posted by SoSideways

I was just thinking...

Take a look at the area I circled.



If you make this brace, do you think you can make it with a longer bracket and provide enough room on the bracket to drop the front RLCA pick up point by I dunno... an inch?

Can do the same with the rear bracket I suppose.

What do you guys think? Not gonna be strong enough?

The only thing I see is that there is that "lip" around the LCA mounting points. You'd have to grind that off or make the bracket a little wider to get around them. Kind of a pain the butt. It would be pretty simple to make the bracket longer when you drop the front.

Originally Posted by articdragon192

Wouldn't it bet better to raise the rear pick up point, instead of lowering the front pick up point of the LCA?

Depends. Changing the rear changes the relationship with the toe arm more, which should affect bumpsteer more? So modifying the toe arm mount might be necessary. But, it does move the roll center up a bit.

[SoSideways]

Originally Posted by articdragon192

Wouldn't it bet better to raise the rear pick up point, instead of lowering the front pick up point of the LCA?

Yeah, that can be done too.

But if the brace has to sit on top of the RLCA pick up point mounting bracket, then there might be a packaging issue of running out of room there.

You can keep going down with the front RLCA pick up point bracket and not really run into any issues, but above the rear pick up point bracket? Eh...

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

There is a picture a page back. az_240 just bought them and his Z32 e-brakes fit, and he says the urethane bushings are nice now.
.

interesting, because the ebrake stuff would bolt
(even though it wasn't a great fit)
but there wasn't any place for the ebrake line to come out
also you need to switch the assembly sides putting the line at a local
that would require a different length

very interested to see the new set up all bolted up

[PoorMans180SX]

From az_240's post.

[NiSilS14]

Did a little bit of searching and saw those arm braces are for the skyline gt-r's.
NISMO Rear Member Brace Set BCNR33 BNR34

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Originally Posted by az_240

Some observations or 'hating' as some of you may have:

we found the fit for the bolt that holds that ebrake assembly sloppy
looks like they haven't done anything to fix that
the oem is a nice snug slip fit for a reason

if you look on the back of the oem upright
you'll notice the recess areas for the axle dust collar to fit nicely
not such provision on the DF knuckles
nor the counterbores for the bolts holding the hub to the upright

that's the reason why the aforementioned IDs are machined on the oem piece

the ebrake cable now comes out the top of the upright
mmdb found the cable length to be off after that
DF doesn't mention this nor (as far as I could search) show pictures of an installed working assembly

I'm sorry but those bushing are crap
they take two halves of a bushing and press them into their bores
not with performance in mind
but because the bores for the bushings are too inconsistent to press in OEM replacements, ES, Whiteline, etc ones.



and having said all that I still believe they're a decent value

[VIPDRFT]

Would knuckles be detrimental on an underpowered car such as a stock 240? As in not having enough power to hold the angle?

[Tampa Drift]

Originally Posted by VIPDRFT

Would knuckles be detrimental on an underpowered car such as a stock 240? As in not having enough power to hold the angle?

Yes it will be a lot harder with the increased steering angle. Not saying you cant do it. Theres a few drivers locally with tie rod spacers running KA's, not full blown modified knuckles, and they do fine.

[VIPDRFT]

Okay, thanks! I was just curio. My "real" drift car has power and knuckles but I'm building an underpowered "missile" to practice with and wanted to verify.

[mikerbike]

I use Modded knuckles on my KA drift car. Increase rear grip and you can use the extra angle. I found that with the slicker rear tires I used to use (and occasionally still use) I can't make full use of the extra angle, i just spin out when I get close.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

Some observations or 'hating' as some of you may have:
...
and having said all that I still believe they're a decent value

I guess the fat strippers are cheaper too right?


Sorry, but I don't really buy into the orange paint hype. Awesome that they are doing their own thing, but if I made my own junk, painted it Red and called it Jap Spec 3, it would sell regardless.

Shiney paint goes a along way -- I'm glad you guys provide real world feedback.

[az_240]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

we found the fit for the bolt that holds that ebrake assembly sloppy

if you look on the back of the oem upright
you'll notice the recess areas for the axle dust collar to fit nicely
not such provision on the DF knuckles

the ebrake cable now comes out the top of the upright
mmdb found the cable length to be off after that

I'm sorry but those bushing are crap

Yes the ebrake king pin hole does have 1-2mm of play. Not too worried about it... I could make a little spacer if I have to.
I was worried about the length of the ebrake cables. I have R33 cables at the moment. I'll have to pm mmdb to see what he went with.

I believe I can get the dust boots to work.

As far as the bushings go I think you are a bit biased since you help make spherical housings. While sphericals are no doubt better these are still a good solution.

Once the arm is bolted on they are nice and tight... no play from side to side or front to back. I'm not sure if these ones were split down the middle or not but with the arm attached it really shouldnt matter. Others have split their ES bushings without any issues.

What suprised me is the stiction is very little compared to the ES bushings. Also they give full range of motion unlike the stock/nismo bushings.

So how are they crap again? Just because they are split poly?

Also how can anyone hate on the color they were powdercoated? Don't like it paint it another color haha

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by codyace

I guess the fat strippers are cheaper too right?


Sorry, but I don't really buy into the orange paint hype. Awesome that they are doing their own thing, but if I made my own junk, painted it Red and called it Jap Spec 3, it would sell regardless.

Shiney paint goes a along way -- I'm glad you guys provide real world feedback.

lol... never turn down a fatty

I don't really buy the hype either
and feel that these knuckles were thrown together without out much real
research behind them.
they're put together well enough that they work though
and four corners for ~$1100 IS a pretty good deal
(remember how much the GP Sports wanted for the fronts alone)

If you can provide something similar for or under that price
then my hat's off to you

Originally Posted by az_240

Yes the ebrake king pin hole does have 1-2mm of play. Not too worried about it... I could make a little spacer if I have to.
I was worried about the length of the ebrake cables. I have R33 cables at the moment. I'll have to pm mmdb to see what he went with.

I don't think he's done anything about it yet.
Just riding without ebrake for now
Was talking to a shop about making custom length cables iirc

I believe I can get the dust boots to work.

Cool, in for pics when you do.

As far as the bushings go I think you are a bit biased since you help make spherical housings. While sphericals are no doubt better these are still a good solution.

perhaps, but that's not what I was getting at

Once the arm is bolted on they are nice and tight... no play from side to side or front to back. I'm not sure if these ones were split down the middle or not but with the arm attached it really shouldnt matter. Others have split their ES bushings without any issues.

What suprised me is the stiction is very little compared to the ES bushings. Also they give full range of motion unlike the stock/nismo bushings.

So how are they crap again? Just because they are split poly?

The bushing we took apart had inconsistent wall thickness
and were chewed up where they were split
air bubbles here and there
in other words: crap
I'm not saying you need sphericals or you suck
(actually think that they're too much on a daily)
Nismo, oem or ES ones are better quality
but good luck getting a consistent fit on those arms

Also how can anyone hate on the color they were powdercoated? Don't like it paint it another color haha

I don't hate the color per say
is not to my taste but that's inconsequential

What we didn't like is that it was sloppy applied
varying thickness throughout the part
this even in the places where the oem knuckle has been machined for precise slip fit with the hub
this tells me DF didn't put a lot of thought into this, or didn't care enough to

[GripTerror]

aah you guys got to it

Yeah those braces are neat and super simple they are nismo gtr ones... someone already posted it.

Keep in mind s13 and s14 subframes are different mounting points.

Somone SHOULD make that and the axle spacers.... to widen track without wheel spacers... these are so cool simple and someone should make them...

[az_240]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

The bushing we took apart had inconsistent wall thickness
and were chewed up where they were split
air bubbles here and there
in other words: crap
I'm not saying you need sphericals or you suck
(actually think that they're too much on a daily)
Nismo, oem or ES ones are better quality

Mine do not have any visible air bubbles or noticeable variations in wall thickness. The bushings do look a little sloppy like they were cut with a dull blade or something where as the nismo/oem/es are cleaner looking.

Despite how they look I do not believe those bushings would be any better than what is already in the DW hubs. My main concern was stiction and these don't have much issue with that where as in my experience the ES and Nismo bushings do. OEM has more range of motion and less stiction than Nismo but they are quite a bit sloppier.

[Slidin' Sam]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

I was just thinking...

Take a look at the area I circled.



If you make this brace, do you think you can make it with a longer bracket and provide enough room on the bracket to drop the front RLCA pick up point by I dunno... an inch?

Can do the same with the rear bracket I suppose.

What do you guys think? Not gonna be strong enough?

KTS makes these...just saw it in the newest DoriTen while I was taking a sh!t! lol Best reading material ever! haha! Oh, and they are surprisingly cheap!

[GripTerror]

link to kts product

[Jonnie Fraz]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

I was just thinking...

Take a look at the area I circled.



If you make this brace, do you think you can make it with a longer bracket and provide enough room on the bracket to drop the front RLCA pick up point by I dunno... an inch?

Can do the same with the rear bracket I suppose.

What do you guys think? Not gonna be strong enough?

Very good idea, but this would only work if you had rod ends on your lower control arms, otherwise you would put way too much bind on the lower control arm with stock bushings.

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by Jonnie Fraz

Very good idea, but this would only work if you had rod ends on your lower control arms, otherwise you would put way too much bind on the lower control arm with stock bushings.

Agree, plus they look like a pain in the ass to install
Personally, I think boxing the pick up points and welding reinforcements on the sides is a more practical method of adding rigidity to the pick up points

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by az_240

Mine do not have any visible air bubbles or noticeable variations in wall thickness. The bushings do look a little sloppy like they were cut with a dull blade or something where as the nismo/oem/es are cleaner looking.

Despite how they look I do not believe those bushings would be any better than what is already in the DW hubs. My main concern was stiction and these don't have much issue with that where as in my experience the ES and Nismo bushings do. OEM has more range of motion and less stiction than Nismo but they are quite a bit sloppier.

cool, when do you plan to have them installed?
I'm looking forward to you impressions

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

Agree, plus they look like a pain in the ass to install
Personally, I think boxing the pick up points and welding reinforcements on the sides is a more practical method of adding rigidity to the pick up points

Except it's illegal in Formula D and a lot of other racing classes.

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Except it's illegal in Formula D and a lot of other racing classes.

damn, now I'll have to give up my dreams on becoming an FD or racing driver....

[GripTerror]

id love to get these for an s14 subframe. I plan to put an s14 subframe in my s13 so def would want some of these braces for an s14 subframe.

I care not for any D1 or whatever rules i am building an unlimited car any small bit added that benefits even slightly is a win win to me

If they are available do let me know where...

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Except it's illegal in Formula D and a lot of other racing classes.

I hate FD rules.

You can build a RWD Scion TC and drive it, but you can't swap a subframe from an S14 into an S13.

In any case, I'd be interested in a set of braces should someone make them or find a source for them in the ~$400 range.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by GripTerror

id love to get these for an s14 subframe. I plan to put an s14 subframe in my s13 so def would want some of these braces for an s14 subframe.

I care not for any D1 or whatever rules i am building an unlimited car any small bit added that benefits even slightly is a win win to me

If they are available do let me know where...

Johnnie Fraz will be making them shortly it seems.

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

damn, now I'll have to give up my dreams on becoming an FD or racing driver....

Hahaha, I know, right? I don't care much either, I was just saying.

[GripTerror]

i hope he does

And yeah rules are bullshit

[nieko]

I hope none of you are planning on raising your subframe with those braces.

Not gunna happen.

I can barely get a wrench in to the "circled area" to loosen that nut.

[GripTerror]

uh not looking to raise subframe but looking to reinforce the flimsy thing as those braces intended to be used.

I plan to raise it with offset subframe bushings from spl and drop car with pbm/dw knuckles but this wold be nice to keep the suspension tight. I have all arms spherical already.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by GripTerror

uh not looking to raise subframe but looking to reinforce the flimsy thing as those braces intended to be used.

I plan to raise it with offset subframe bushings from spl and drop car with pbm/dw knuckles but this wold be nice to keep the suspension tight. I have all arms spherical already.

He's talking about raising the subframe and having those braces because of clearance issues.

Originally Posted by nieko

I hope none of you are planning on raising your subframe with those braces.

Not gunna happen.

I can barely get a wrench in to the "circled area" to loosen that nut.

That's what big hammers/welders are for.