GT2871 USERS. SR motor

[steve shadows]

Originally Posted by codyace

As justin said, the only way to take advantage of the Greddy Maniold is to install some cams. Otherwise the change in powerband will probably hurt you.

And even with that the best way to take advantage of the IM and Cams is a much larger TB.

Honestly the best way to go especially with the VTC motors is leave the IM stock go with a 264 duration camshaft and a .86 housing GT2871R, kind of get the best of all worlds and with solid tuning with a good EMS we are currently seeing 350-400 whp on PUMP gas down here! finally! granted these are all Haltech cars with the dyno dyanmics tuning...

The larger turbine housing really does open up power capability with aggressive cams and some basic head work though...

Redtops seem to always make better overall power, but the VTC motors with this turbo are trending better overal torque. Problem is they seem to be less efficent in RPM ranges over 6000 rpms compared to redtops, a lot has to do with the port design, high port vs. low port on the motors

[nismoninjagtr]

i've searched and searched but i can't find a 100% answer where i can buy and what lines to get for my T2 .64ar 56 trim GT2871r...? codyace can you shed some light my setup is closely based on yours... or any other knowlegeable GT2871r owner help plz...

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Sorry to hear that man .....hope you get it fixed soon...

Are you gonna rebuild or just buy a new motor or a new bottom end?

Well my idea is to fix the turbo first start her up and diagnose because with the turbo clanking away at the housing, I am sure it makes the engine choke, so fix the turbo turn her on, see whats the problem. If there is noticeable rod knock, then I am going to pul the motor and fix the bearing and hope to god the crank and girdles of the bottom end are fubar'ed.

Originally Posted by codyace

Which you've now seen, the biggest thing to keeping an SR happy is oil (sounds redundant, but more important in our cars, even FWD). I always overfill my crankcase (even with the larger pan) as a slight 'help' towards this

Aside from accusump, it's a nice piece...but it wouldn't prevent the oil in the catch can, just help keep oil in the crankcase after it enters teh catch can. Sure a valve cover change may help with that, but I'm a firm believer of the OEM style setup (that is, using the factory oil/air seperator) and then adding a catch can as well.

Yeah I think the factor black box air/oil separator is needed and I am sure the catch can mod I did helps.... Its just impossible when a car just gets thrown into the air and then jam on the throttle.... sucks.... oh wellz hence road racing for you....

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

And even with that the best way to take advantage of the IM and Cams is a much larger TB.

Honestly the best way to go especially with the VTC motors is leave the IM stock go with a 264 duration camshaft and a .86 housing GT2871R, kind of get the best of all worlds and with solid tuning with a good EMS we are currently seeing 350-400 whp on PUMP gas down here! finally! granted these are all Haltech cars with the dyno dyanmics tuning...

The larger turbine housing really does open up power capability with aggressive cams and some basic head work though...

Redtops seem to always make better overall power, but the VTC motors with this turbo are trending better overal torque. Problem is they seem to be less efficent in RPM ranges over 6000 rpms compared to redtops, a lot has to do with the port design, high port vs. low port on the motors

Steve, you like the Q45 TB, if i recall correctly, right?

Is this as simple as chopping off the current IM flange and welding one on that can bolt up to the Q45 TB?

If so, to what extent does the size of the coldpipe matter? IIRC, the Greddy kits have 3 inch (~75-76 mm) coldpipe pieces. The q45 TB is like 82 mm, right?

I believe in practice that the throttle body makes a difference, as you have said.


However, on the theoretical side, the throttle body is so short relative to the length of the coldpipe, that it seems that the coldpipe provides (nearly) all of the resistance to flow (fluid mechanics).

I am interested, however, to see how much of a difference it makes. Clearly it can't HURT!


Becasue

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

And even with that the best way to take advantage of the IM and Cams is a much larger TB.

Honestly the best way to go especially with the VTC motors is leave the IM stock go with a 264 duration camshaft and a .86 housing GT2871R, kind of get the best of all worlds and with solid tuning with a good EMS we are currently seeing 350-400 whp on PUMP gas down here! finally! granted these are all Haltech cars with the dyno dyanmics tuning...

The larger turbine housing really does open up power capability with aggressive cams and some basic head work though...

Redtops seem to always make better overall power, but the VTC motors with this turbo are trending better overal torque. Problem is they seem to be less efficent in RPM ranges over 6000 rpms compared to redtops, a lot has to do with the port design, high port vs. low port on the motors

Steve, you like the Q45 TB, if i recall correctly, right?

Is this as simple as chopping off the current IM flange and welding one on that can bolt up to the Q45 TB?

If so, to what extent does the size of the coldpipe matter? IIRC, the Greddy kits have 3 inch (~75-76 mm) coldpipe pieces. The q45 TB is like 82 mm, right?

I believe in practice that the throttle body makes a difference, as you have said.


However, on the theoretical side, the throttle body is so short relative to the length of the coldpipe, that it seems that the coldpipe provides (nearly) all of the resistance to flow (fluid mechanics).

I am interested, however, to see how much of a difference it makes. Clearly it can't HURT!


Because I am busy now, I will search later, but is the Q45 output voltage versus throttle position the same as an SR TB?

Any electronic/signal modifications required for that?

[xxoreolovexx]

im using a .86 with 264/264 cams. On 22 psi i put down 319rwhp with an enthalpy tune and 740cc injectors.

[TFD]

Honestly the best way to go especially with the VTC motors is leave the IM stock go with a 264 duration camshaft and a .86 housing GT2871R...

We'll see what happens. Running S14 SR20DET / 2871 .86 / TODA 264 / 740 / Z32.
First fix the idle (lean) / bogging problem with the DW injectors. Lag time seems to be the problem. Swap injectors to Nismo's or get Nistune instead of JWT ecu?

I think Nistune...

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by xxoreolovexx

im using a .86 with 264/264 cams. On 22 psi i put down 419rwhp with an enthalpy tune and 740cc injectors.

post your graph or it didnt happen

[codyace]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

And even with that the best way to take advantage of the IM and Cams is a much larger TB.

Certainly. Although I wonder at what point going 'big' is too big. I mean obviously the outlet of the compressors are only so big, and the inlets are only so big...could going 'too big' be detremental or is such a thing not possible (dont' ask my why my brain can't process this). Just curious to hear others thoughts on it.

Originally Posted by steve shadows

The larger turbine housing really does open up power capability with aggressive cams and some basic head work though...

Undoubtedly the larger housing and larger cams will make them make more peak, but at what mid range sacrifice. I think we all can agree that the boost onset of the .64 is second to none, and the .86 housing always feels a bit lazier in a direct comparison. Hard to say which setup really would have the better average power/torque figtures...I'd REALLY love to see a direct over time comparison, that would be awesome, but I don' thave the right tools to do a good test haha.

It would be intresting to compare a .86 housing car and some big boy cams, JWT C1's maybe and some bigger RPM (9000 would be nice huh)...Although I think we'd fight two things: The turbo can't support power up there, and the cams would have to much overlap as well (unsure of the HKS overlap in their 264's, may be less and possibly help more)

Originally Posted by steve shadows

Redtops seem to always make better overall power, but the VTC motors with this turbo are trending better overal torque. Problem is they seem to be less efficent in RPM ranges over 6000 rpms compared to redtops, a lot has to do with the port design, high port vs. low port on the motors

Much like on the FWD setups as well. I've got the post of my friends 28RS sentra and the top end really is non existant, but the midrange is very beefy, especially for the boost levels. I don't have much experience on RR motors to verify if they are good/better/worse than the highport/lowport ones.

Originally Posted by nismoninjagtr

i've searched and searched but i can't find a 100% answer where i can buy and what lines to get for my T2 .64ar 56 trim GT2871r...? codyace can you shed some light my setup is closely based on yours... or any other knowlegeable GT2871r owner help plz...

I bought Taka GT turbo conversion lines...but that was a LONG time ago...unsure if they are even still in business today.

Originally Posted by slider2828

Well my idea is to fix the turbo first start her up and diagnose because with the turbo clanking away at the housing, I am sure it makes the engine choke, so fix the turbo turn her on, see whats the problem. If there is noticeable rod knock, then I am going to pul the motor and fix the bearing and hope to god the crank and girdles of the bottom end are fubar'ed.



Yeah I think the factor black box air/oil separator is needed and I am sure the catch can mod I did helps.... Its just impossible when a car just gets thrown into the air and then jam on the throttle.... sucks.... oh wellz hence road racing for you....

[TFD]

I'll dyno my setup in februari and then afterwards get ahold of an F(G)reddy intake and see what gains are made or lost in the powerband.

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by TFD

We'll see what happens. Running S14 SR20DET / 2871 .86 / TODA 264 / 740 / Z32.
First fix the idle (lean) / bogging problem with the DW injectors. Lag time seems to be the problem. Swap injectors to Nismo's or get Nistune instead of JWT ecu?

I think Nistune...

Yeah I used to have DW's and they worked great. Their lag times are closer to the stock. Find out what stock injectors they used to create your injector size, is it KA, SR, bla bla bla and use those stock injector lag times.

Will work best for you.

-Ken

[drag113]

Originally Posted by drag113

In this thread! My car's going in tomorrow

-GT2871R .82
-Tomei 260/12mm Procam
-Apexi HG
-ISIS Manifold
-740cc squirters
-Power FC
-All supporting mods.

Can't wait to get it tuned!

So I finally got everything done. Only issue that I got back was a noisy VCT gear/sprocket And brief idle overheating, im thinking the thermostat is already taking a shit so i'll replace that soon.

The camshafts made the car considerably louder. I love how it lopes at idle. Compression tested 160 across the board.

Martin at RS Enthalpy will be tuning it shortly. Stuck with the last tuned map on stock setup and is running like shit around the 2k rpm range.

Will update this soon!

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by drag113

So I finally got everything done. Only issue that I got back was a noisy VCT gear/sprocket And brief idle overheating, im thinking the thermostat is already taking a shit so i'll replace that soon.

The camshafts made the car considerably louder. I love how it lopes at idle. Compression tested 160 across the board.

Martin at RS Enthalpy will be tuning it shortly. Stuck with the last tuned map on stock setup and is running like shit around the 2k rpm range.

Will update this soon!

AHHH Jealous! Most people are really happy with their Enthalpy/JWT ROM tunes, but to be there with them in person to have them tune it......that is truly awesome!

You should REALLY be able to squeeze out good numbers!

[2fast4y0u]

/\ werd...
i thought martin and i were becoming "friends" because i talked to him so much during my tune...then he just stopped talking to me. kinds sucks because i have lots of questions

[Seraphim38]

Sunday, January 30, 2011

Here’s the dyno story:
Before I replace the head & cams on my SR20DET I figured I would run a baseline dyno on my current configuration. It feels very strong in its current form. I keep the boost controller set at 14 psi because I am running a SR20DET with completely stock internals other than the Greddy rocker arm stoppers. The car is stripped down and is running staggered Enkei RPF1s with 255/40/17 Falken Azenis in the back, but it will spin them up when the boost hits even in 3rd at 70 mph when going straight. I am shopping for 275/40/17 or 315/35/17s right now so that I can get more grip, and can swap 235s on spare rims if I want to go drifting.

I attended a dyno day held by some local Volvo owners. The dyno shop has a Mustang Dyno. As part of the event owners were asked to guess their rw corrected hp and I guessed 270rwhp @ 14.0 psi before I found out it was a Mustang Dyno and that it was supposedly running about 30-50rwhp low, so I was told I should expect about 240rwhp. Before me a modified Volvo S60R (turbo 5 cylinder) just barely hit 200rwhp when people were expecting 240-250rwhp, a Lotus Esprit SE hit 253rwhp and a new Shelby GT500 hit 452hp.

The owner of the shop strapped it down and ran the first pull. 254rwhp at 6600 RPM, 248lbs of torque at 4700 RPM, at a steady 13.0 psi of boost. He said that SR20s with 2871s typically run 230hp to 240hp on his dyno and that it was a good result, likely because he thought the timing was aggressive. Given that it was running 13 psi on a supposedly conservative dyno relative to the other car’s results on the same dyno and the comments by the dyno owner, I wasn’t disappointed with the results.

Drivetrain:
s13 JDM black top sr20det motor
Garrett GT2871R .64
Megan turbo manifold
Apexi racing suction kit for GT2871 & N62 MAf
z32 N62 MAF
550 cc injectors in OEM SR20 fuel rail
stock FPR
Enthalpy tuned ECU
Greddy fmic
Greddy rs bov
hot pipe with Greddy flange
Greddy/TRUST Stainless High Flow Turbo Outlet
Greddy 3” down pipe
3” Magnaflow spun metallic catalytic converter
3” Invidia exhaust with extra magnaflow 4” round resonator/muffler
Greddy racing oil pan
Koyo Racing Radiator
Twin electric fans
Samco blue silicone Radiator hoses
Walbro fuel pump
new oem water pump
stock pulleys
newly rebuilt alternator
Small light Miata racing battery
RPS Max stage 2 clutch
B&M shift kit
Nismo rubber shift knob
KAAZ 1.5 Limited Slip differential

On hand waiting to be installed, all new in the box:
Red top reworked head with 3 way valve job
Greddy valve springs
Brian Crower Titanium retainers
BC stage 2 264 degree 12.0MM cams
HKS top feed fuel rail
Aeromotive FPR with
Billet Aeroquip push lock 90 degree fittings
-6AN fuel line

Still need to buy:
STI 800cc top feed injectors
Maxworks / ARP head stud kit
Apexi metal head gastket 86mm x 0.8
Stance billet water neck adapter
Stri DSD-SLM II water temp gauge with smoke lens black face white letters
Stri DSD-SLM II oil pressure gauge with smoke lens black face white letters
single DIN dual gauge panel
Bigger rear tires

Dyno video:

YouTube - SR20DET w/ GT2971R .64 @ 13psi on Mustang Dyno 254hp



Poor photos taken by my blackberry (dirty car from the rain):

[drag113]

UPDATE!

Martin tuned my car yesterday here in Orlando. Made 394whp/353wtq @ 18 psi on mustang dyno. Car feels incredible.

Again this was on:
2871r .82
Tomei 260 procam
Isis manifold
740cc injectors
Power FC
Supporting mods

[cordobes]

I stil don't understand how my s13 sr made 349whp and 381 of torque "I'm running gt2860rs turbo stock cams and head 16psi of boost 600cc injectorrs z33 mad and a tune from martin at enthalpy. I made that 2 months ago on a mustan dyno !

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by Seraphim38

Sunday, January 30, 2011

damn dog wheres the link to your FWD conversion thread?

Im tuning a (.86) 2871r, 740, PFC-D, Fullrace btm mount mani, greddy intake, S13 sr20, BC264/retain/springs

Soon. Hope it does similar results! gj

[cordobes]

^^^ fwd conversion?? Are you 4real? I hope it's a joke lol

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by cordobes

^^^ fwd conversion?? Are you 4real? I hope it's a joke lol

naw dog dont u see dat front wheel on dem rollers? that 240 is FWD fo sho

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by codyace

Hey Gabe!

Like in the PM, the S2's are certainly big boy turbo cams, and also could use some more RPM to really work to their maximum potential. I know the FWD guys who used them both N/A and Turbo loved them...but both (as above) did make comments that these things crested north of 8000 for sure.

HOWEVER

These guys were also using T3 and T4 flanged setups...not T2.

So with that said (and I mistakenly didn't address this in the PM) I do NOT think it would be a good match for the turbo. My brain initially said 35r, but neglected to remember that the HKS one is still T2 based...probably low to mid 400 capable. Because of that I'd probably look at the S4's and maybe still revving it out a bit more than stock. I think going with the larger lift/duration/seperation C2's would end up choking out on the T2 flanged exhaust.

Hey just an update on what I decided, I decided to keep the turbo and Cams, and I am just going all out and doing a 2.4liter stroker motor with all that, shooting for the easy 450-500hp on lower boost

[cordobes]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

naw dog dont u see dat front wheel on dem rollers? that 240 is FWD fo sho

lmao. ur funny

[steve shadows]

LOL at the FWD comments

I hope his post kind of opens people's eyes to what different dynos read!

Most parts producers and even turbo sellers always love to spout whp results that they got from inertia based dynos especially dynojets, but no one wants to try to market HP gains from brake eddy or mustang dynos because the results are soo much lower in comparison, even all things being the same...

a lot of shops tune on dyno dynamics now and use dyno jets for the output to present to the client...just a thought....

should be getting my other friend / custy back in to try to hit 400 whp on the dyno dynamics with this turbo soon though -----then well need to hit the dj just to see what the "real" output is lol

[nismorb14]

hey man u have compressor adapters for a/c installs?ll i am interested whats the price shipped to tyler, tx.... 75701

[Kingtal0n]

Originally Posted by steve shadows

LOL at the FWD comments

I hope his post kind of opens people's eyes to what different dynos read!

Most parts producers and even turbo sellers always love to spout whp results that they got from inertia based dynos especially dynojets, but no one wants to try to market HP gains from brake eddy or mustang dynos because the results are soo much lower in comparison, even all things being the same...

a lot of shops tune on dyno dynamics now and use dyno jets for the output to present to the client...just a thought....

should be getting my other friend / custy back in to try to hit 400 whp on the dyno dynamics with this turbo soon though -----then well need to hit the dj just to see what the "real" output is lol

At the end of the day you are looking at only "numbers" that are corrections based on calculations... more numbers. What matters most in these situations is comparisons with as many things as possible being equal.

If we are comparing two cars on a dynojet roller... then we can tell which one is making +/- (resolutions) ft/lb of torque. Same two cars on different dynos... even two different dynojets... are going to be apples/oranges.
I love the dyno for fun and for double check your tune/timing. You can pick out spots that need fine tuning that you might not see on the street even with a datalog and wideband. plus you can check the engine while its making a pass for oddities (expanding couplers, engine movement, rotating components that are not smooth, etc..) A dyno is not the final solution when it comes to tuning it is simply an extra tuning tool

[codyace]

Originally Posted by Kingtal0n

At the end of the day you are looking at only "numbers" that are corrections based on calculations... more numbers. What matters most in these situations is comparisons with as many things as possible being equal.

THis is why I always put up trap speeds with my dyno numbers...you simply cant' manipulate weight/power

On top of that, lets also not forget how every dyno loads a turbo car differently...I know on my personal dyno, it's only a 1000 lb roller...it loads all turbo cars like shit, and often never lets bigger turbo cars hit full boost or even spool remotely at the same time. A dyno like Steve's can load a turbo MUCH better, producing better torque values, and faster spool almost everytime.

Once the snow/ice/salt melts, I'll be making a point to goto a Dyno Dynamics to go that way. Again it's not a 100% comparison, but being that Steve will never goto a Dynojet, or put up trap speeds (oke I may as well go to a DD myself and get it over with

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by drag113

UPDATE!

Martin tuned my car yesterday here in Orlando. Made 394whp/353wtq @ 18 psi on mustang dyno. Car feels incredible.

Again this was on:
2871r .82
Tomei 260 procam
Isis manifold
740cc injectors
Power FC
Supporting mods

No doubt you had some hands-on tuning from one of the best in the business, but 353 ft-lbs seems absurdly high.

Don't Mustangs usually yield the LOWEST reading amongst the commonly used dynos?

Cody's setup put out peak torque around 310 ft-lbs or so (which is what I would expect from a 260 cam and 2871r).

353 ft-lbs seems CRAZY high for a 2871r...........

[codyace]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

No doubt you had some hands-on tuning from one of the best in the business, but 353 ft-lbs seems absurdly high.

Don't Mustangs usually yield the LOWEST reading amongst the commonly used dynos?

Cody's setup put out peak torque around 310 ft-lbs or so (which is what I would expect from a 260 cam and 2871r).

353 ft-lbs seems CRAZY high for a 2871r...........

My car made 330 on 20 psi when the boost controller was working

Dyno wise, the mustang ones often give more torque, as they can load the turbo better then a Dynojet.

350 does seem a little high for 18psi, but anything is possible!

[usdm180sx]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

No doubt you had some hands-on tuning from one of the best in the business, but 353 ft-lbs seems absurdly high.

Don't Mustangs usually yield the LOWEST reading amongst the commonly used dynos?

Cody's setup put out peak torque around 310 ft-lbs or so (which is what I would expect from a 260 cam and 2871r).

353 ft-lbs seems CRAZY high for a 2871r...........

He does have the .86 trim though (he posted .82 assuming it's a typo) so wouldn't that make a difference?

[cordobes]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

No doubt you had some hands-on tuning from one of the best in the business, but 353 ft-lbs seems absurdly high.

Don't Mustangs usually yield the LOWEST reading amongst the commonly used dynos?

Cody's setup put out peak torque around 310 ft-lbs or so (which is what I would expect from a 260 cam and 2871r).

353 ft-lbs seems CRAZY high for a 2871r...........

Then..what about me? Gt28rs turbo stock intervals,Freddy intake Mani,z32 Maf,600cc injectors and a tune from Martin on 16 psi"mustang dyno"and I made 349whp and 381 of torque?