This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[singlecamslam]

Sosideways did you purposely make your passenger side height different from your drivers side? Or are you gonna adjust them equally and just slapped it together to drive.

[DC Dan MAX USA]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bowering

So it is time for tie rods I am thinking ikeya formula inners and spl outers this is for an s13 that is moderatly low. I will be raising it back up to where I have level control arms. Is this a wise choice? I will be dailying the car but it will be seeing track time aswell. I would like as much steering lock as possible and quality parts are essential for steering parts but is there any cheaper options? Thanks in advance.

you're going to like this $75 shipped, long & strong
POWERED BY MAX:

[VIPDRFT]

I can get front roll center adjusters, but don't really need them. Rear drop knuckles/spindles and subframe risers don't exist for my car, I'm not a fabricator, and having someone fab them for me would be $$$$. I have seen a part some drivers use to that lowers the mounting point of the rear lower control arm where it bolts up to the rear knuckle, but that's it.

[!Zar!]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Did you have an alignment prior to raising your car?

Did you align your car post raising?

Originally Posted by VIPDRFT

No... I really need to get one.

Then the argument isn't all that strong, no? Does your car have adjustable arms?

A proper alignment will make a car handle MUCH better.

In other news, I had risen my car for proper geometry and all that stuff.

Then felt suicidal, so my car is back to being low, and with a better alignment after sorting my arm situation out.

LOVING LIFE

[SoSideways]

Originally Posted by singlecamslam

Sosideways did you purposely make your passenger side height different from your drivers side? Or are you gonna adjust them equally and just slapped it together to drive.

Uh... I had to adjust them like that so that the car would sit evenly on all 4 corners.

They're still not perfectly even on all corners, but for now, it's close enough.

[chiboy002]

Originally Posted by VIPDRFT

Soooo...

I raised my ride height to ~25 inches each corner to see how the car handled with correct(ish) roll center compared to having it slammed.

Right off the bat, I could tell that the car felt smoother and was more predictable. I also had a better contact patch and wasn't wearing out the inside or my tires as quickly. It felt easier to control in drift. It looked a bit faster on video too.

I noticed that the weight being placed higher/high center of gravity caused me to lose speed after initiating and changing directions from all weight shifting. My line changed significantly. I would set my car wide towards the corner and initiate; It would tuck in momentarily then shoot me WAY wide; tuck back in on the clip momentarily; then shoot me really WAY wide again exiting the corner. I know out-in-out is a rule of thumb for the proper line, but it seemed to be timed incorrectly and even allowed other drivers to get inside my line because I would exit so wide.

This was with 235/40R17 Federal RS-R's 17x8+49 Front and 215/40R17 Maxxis MA-Z1 Victra 17x9+0 Rear

you were at dday35 right? if i think your car is the one i saw then yeah i noticed you kept coming out really car but it honestly didn't seem THAT bad from where i was standing

[nieko]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Uh... I had to adjust them like that so that the car would sit evenly on all 4 corners.

They're still not perfectly even on all corners, but for now, it's close enough.

Um what are you going by? fender to ground?

Is the preload just different or did you actually screw the shock into the bracket more on one side?

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by Def

Do an actual track day to learn the concept of a line and how it feels to drive it(entry, apex, power out). All these things still apply in drifting, and everybody in that video was fairly horrible at it. That's really the thing I see most drifters being really deficient in - just kind of drifting willy nilly. Picking out apexes here and there, usually early, going slow as a result etc. The good guys still drift a proper line.

Lol its like you missed the bit that said I had only skidded 5 times ever. You must realize that gripping a line and trying to follow a line whilst sideways are very different until you master controlling the car sideways.

I've done plenty of track driving, mainly karting and iam not that slow

Anyways I can't be that bad because I managed to qualify and then finish 9th in the uk odc (the final was the 7th time I had drifted ever!)

I understand that I put the vid up and left myself open to negative comments, but I posted it so peeps couls observe the car not so much my driving

Peace homey, iam guessing you weren't trying to insult anyone :thumbs:

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by Slidin' Sam

You probably noticed the change due to skinnier tires and not a slight change in ride height. The idea is to add more grip and stability to your car and still be able to maintain drift. Lower the car in the rear and raising it in the front, slightly, will allow the rear end of the car to kick out and squat much easier, provide faster transitions, and allow for more room in the front for steering and proper suspension travel.

You don't look to bad for driving for a short period of time...gotta get on some tracks that allow you to career more speed and really test your set-up/abilities. Tight and technical is awesome, just more speed! That's how everybody in Japan gets so good, IMO. A lot of the tracks here are super technical, as opposed to big wide open raceways where you put your foot down and steer.

Cheers fella, iam starting to pick it up a bit quicker now that I have some confidence. And your right about getting too a faster track. I drove at mallory park in the uk open drift championship and it was a massive eye opener. Drifting a full size circuit was amazing and taught me a lot about my steering work and also about my car. It certainly needs anti roll bars again for the faster tracks

Ill play more with rideheight and tyre sizes I didn't think there was a massive difference in grip between the different sizes. 235 was a terrible budget tyre and the 215 was a yokohama. Maybe the stiffer sidewall helped, maybe 20mm less sidewall made the difference. Time for more practice

[PoorMans180SX]

Just thought I'd share some suspension stuff from Grunewald's (Blu808 built) Camaro. Looks like an interesting setup, adapting the stock front knuckles with bolt-on adapters:





Bumpsteer is goofy, but it's because of the location of the tie rod.

[SoSideways]

Originally Posted by nieko

Um what are you going by? fender to ground?

Is the preload just different or did you actually screw the shock into the bracket more on one side?

Preload is the same both sides, which is none.

Both dampers are set to the same clicks left and right, but shouldn't affect ride height as the spring determines ride height, not damper settings.

And yes, I did physically screw the threaded shock body of the driver's side coilover further into the lower bracket, that's why the driver's side is only 8.75" from the bottom of the top hat/the top of the spring to the top of the bottom bracket, while the passenger's side is 9.25".

I'm going to chalk it up to the chassis being 19 years old and probably somewhat tweaked, as well as spring variations between the two springs on the coilovers. Half an inch of difference between two sides isn't that bad. Plus, when the car is on the ground, both sides sit at the same height, just that the passenger's side is compressed a tiny little bit more than the driver's side.

[Slidin' Sam]

the whole front steering and suspension setup on the camaro bothers me...

[murda-c]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Preload is the same both sides, which is none.

Both dampers are set to the same clicks left and right, but shouldn't affect ride height as the spring determines ride height, not damper settings.

And yes, I did physically screw the threaded shock body of the driver's side coilover further into the lower bracket, that's why the driver's side is only 8.75" from the bottom of the top hat/the top of the spring to the top of the bottom bracket, while the passenger's side is 9.25".

I'm going to chalk it up to the chassis being 19 years old and probably somewhat tweaked, as well as spring variations between the two springs on the coilovers. Half an inch of difference between two sides isn't that bad. Plus, when the car is on the ground, both sides sit at the same height, just that the passenger's side is compressed a tiny little bit more than the driver's side.

maybe there's just more weight on one side?

[SoSideways]

If anything, the passenger's side front is the lighter side between the 2 front corners.

Then the passenger's side rear is also lighter than the driver's side rear.

So no, it doesn't make sense why the coilover on the passenger's side front is longer than the driver's side, as it should compress less.

Again, I'm going to chalk it down to spring variation between the driver's side spring and the passenger's side spring, as well as the chassis may have tweaked from being 19 years old.

[nieko]

Mine was like that too, but im not down for different height coilovers, sounds dumb.

After i swapped out my subframe with a new one and new solid bushings, the car sat the same.

lololol

[singlecamslam]

How exactly are you getting your measurements are you measuring from a bolt to the ground? My s14 was that way because of an accident. My s13 coilovers are same on each side and the control arms are parallel to the ground equally

[SoSideways]

The car is level when on the ground.

Driver's side ground to center of tension rod bolt height is 4", same with passenger's side.

And honestly, I'm not that worried about the coilovers being off by half an inch to make 4 or 5 posts on a forum about it.

Let's move on.

[Razi]

What's the reason the Mustang and Camaro and maybe other cars have the steering rack + tie rod in front of the lower control arm, compared to behind, like our cars?

[SicBastard]

Originally Posted by Razi

What's the reason the Mustang and Camaro and maybe other cars have the steering rack + tie rod in front of the lower control arm, compared to behind, like our cars?

It allows the engine to sit lower when it can sit behind instead of on top of the steering rack.

[killer240]

for you guys with monoball on stock LCA

when you try to move the stud thats on the monoball(arm). is it suppose to be hard?

like i just got mine done. before when i still have the monoball and the housing and i try to put it on, the monoball just slides in/out easy. now that i have the housing welded on the arm i pressed the monoball in and i put the stud on. when i try to move the stud, its harden than it used to be(compared to when i didnt have it welded on the arm yet)

is it suppose to be like this? and im just trippin cuz its my first time doing this.

[Slidin' Sam]

Originally Posted by Razi

What's the reason the Mustang and Camaro and maybe other cars have the steering rack + tie rod in front of the lower control arm, compared to behind, like our cars?

Originally Posted by SicBastard

It allows the engine to sit lower when it can sit behind instead of on top of the steering rack.

Toyota's are like this too. They do not experience bump steer/overcentering issues like the Nissan Chassis do because of this. Also, they are able to achieve more steering angle. Steering also feels different (in relation to turn in and return).

[articdragon192]

FD/FC also has pickup in the front as well IIRC

[!Zar!]

Yup, they do.

[SoSideways]

Originally Posted by killer240

for you guys with monoball on stock LCA

when you try to move the stud thats on the monoball(arm). is it suppose to be hard?

like i just got mine done. before when i still have the monoball and the housing and i try to put it on, the monoball just slides in/out easy. now that i have the housing welded on the arm i pressed the monoball in and i put the stud on. when i try to move the stud, its harden than it used to be(compared to when i didnt have it welded on the arm yet)

is it suppose to be like this? and im just trippin cuz its my first time doing this.

It does that because the entire spherical bearing is now being SQUEEZED by the housing that it's sitting in.

If the clearance was good, it shouldn't affect it that much, but if you did it too tight, it will basically not let the bearing move around too much, or at least it'll feel all tight and hard to move.

What was the bearing's O.D.? And what was the housing's I.D.?

[killer240]

im cant remember its in my inbox and im on time out lol

but yes it feels all tight and hard to move. thats bad eh? what does this mean?
how do you know if you did it too tight and how do you not do it too tight? when you weld the housing on the arm? i had a shop welded it because i have no welding skills and another shop pressed the monoball in because i dont have a press.

but i think i have the same parts what 95katurbo has.

[killer240]

although i can still move the stud if i actually try. you know

[ka-titties]

i've been checking out this thread for a while. finally its time to post up what i've done.

budget LCA and circuit sports tie rod ends:



rear view:

[95KA-Turbo]

Your set up looks nice. Did you replace the spherical bearings or heim joints in your budget arms?

Are you running stock tension rods?

[killer240]

Originally Posted by killer240

although i can still move the stud if i actually try. you know

like if i try really hard. i can kinda move it.
but on the other arms i cant move it at all..

is there a way to fix this without buying new housing and monoball? because money is really tight.

i was thinking maybe i can grind off the weld thats holding the housing and reweld it? (if this will fix the problem)

heres some pics of a RLCA

[ka-titties]

Originally Posted by 95KA-Turbo

Your set up looks nice. Did you replace the spherical bearings or heim joints in your budget arms?

Are you running stock tension rods?

i did replace the ball joints. i didnt do the heims yet. i'm gonna leave them for now. and yes its the stock tension rod with poly bushings.