GT2871 USERS. SR motor

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by slider2828

Well I am going down to SteveShadows for a tune tomorrow, so I changed it up with Nismo 740s, instead of DW600cc and also cleaned up and shortened my pipes about 1 ft.... we'll see what is the difference... I doubt I am going to up the boost, but I just needed to clean stuff up....

up the boost a bit to like 20psi or 22 im sure u will be knocking on 375+whp

[slider2828]

hahaha... we'll see, I don't need to chase down 911 turbo's, I am perfectly fin spanking carrera4s and challengers and holding my own with z06s..... LOL

But I am still using a 3" Catco Cat, and Also a silencer... so mind you maybe that keeps things back a bit hahaha.... Laguna and cops have pretty strict sound restrictions.

[longfellow]

Man am I glad florida doesnt have stupid laws about motoring.

[S13 curtis]

Originally Posted by longfellow

Man am I glad florida doesnt have stupid laws about motoring.

yea same here +1.

[KoukiMonsta]

Originally Posted by longfellow

Man am I glad florida doesnt have stupid laws about motoring.

Originally Posted by S13 curtis

yea same here +1.

i love to think to myself everyday how if i were in cali i would be getting pulled over right now lol

[wh0aitznic0]

I'd LOVE to get pulled over in Cali.

*pops hood*

Officer: Whoa, I wasn't expecting that. Why don't you swap an SR20 in?
Me: Because you would declare my car illegal.

[usdm180sx]

Take your bitch whining elsewhere and stay on topic. The bottom line: stupid is as stupid does

[slider2828]

Oh wellz here is the updated dynos I did with SteveShadows today. Love the work!

Thanks again Steve! I drive my car a lot at the track, so I wanted as smooth as possible torque and hp curve.... and longer if possible....

I love it since this is a.86 turbo with stock intake and exhaust manifold.

New graph has a less sharp drop compared to the old graph and we went up 1 psi to 18PSI now... Any more I am sure I would have some head issues on the track...

Its a very conservative tune as track conditions change all the time! Steady State dynotuning is the best... I was hoping to get a movie of the tune, but I didn't have a video camera..

Previous and now....

[jspaeth]

Ken, I know Steve doesn't really like the Greddy Intake Manifold, but for your 0.86 housing, it looks like you are already spooling kinda ate...

I am wondering if switching to a Greddy IM could really help your top end a whole lot without really hurting spool time....

Which boost controller are you running, and which cams?

[codyace]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Ken, I know Steve doesn't really like the Greddy Intake Manifold, but for your 0.86 housing, it looks like you are already spooling kinda ate...

I am wondering if switching to a Greddy IM could really help your top end a whole lot without really hurting spool time....

Which boost controller are you running, and which cams?

You just said everything I wanted to say Saved me some time.


That car NEEDS a plenum. That top end falling off would upset me

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by codyace

You just said everything I wanted to say Saved me some time.


That car NEEDS a plenum. That top end falling off would upset me

I know Steve doesn't like this manifold very much and he thinks it hurts midrange.

I would like to know how in the hell you (Cody) are able to spool up so early....most setups with the Greddy IM I have seen do spool up a little later...

Maybe the power pull that I did with Evans wasn't applying enough load to spool the turbo at it's regular point?

Cody, I have a question for you, that maybe you can answer....if you had a boost vs. RPM curve to go with your dyno chart, it would help me answer it....


When boost first starts builiding, and finally reaches it's max value....does the RPM where you finally hit peak boost correspond to the "shoulder" in your dyno curve (i.e. around 4300 RPM for you).....?

I am trying to understand if it's possible that I am hitting full boost before the "shoulder" in my torque curve or if on that particular dyno pull on my dyno chart, the turbo just spooled late...

On the street, let's say from low RPM in 2nd or 3rd gear, I seem to hit ~20 psi by around 4000 RPM or so, but my dyno chart shows that I don't hit that torque "shoulder" till around 4700 RPM....

[slider2828]

Actually... I purposely make it boost later... In my track experience boosting too really reduces traction out of the corner....

Also does your cars make 200FT/LBS of torque at 4k rpm? Also don't forget this is on a dyno dynamics... so these look pretty low in general... The curve would look much different on a dynopack or a dynojet... so you guys might not want to compare curves and I wanted it linear and not jagged....

[codyace]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

I know Steve doesn't like this manifold very much and he thinks it hurts midrange.

I would like to know how in the hell you (Cody) are able to spool up so early....most setups with the Greddy IM I have seen do spool up a little later...

Maybe the power pull that I did with Evans wasn't applying enough load to spool the turbo at it's regular point?

Jeff's 'packs are always going to supply good load on the motor, versus the dynojet that I run on, which doens't. What pisses me off is that it spools 'sorta late' on the dynojet (obvously, no laod) but I'm not gonna complain.

here's my reasoning:

We're all blesssed with a 71mm compressor wheel..that's HUGE...that's plenty of MM to support good power. We also have a T2 flange turbin on our side...quick spool!

So while the plenum may (on paper) look like it supports big RPM power (which is does), there is one thing on our side, and that is the T2 turbine housing which will spool regardless of how big the plenum is. It's a mismatched, but great setup, sorta like the 28RS! So to me, the 100-200 rpm worth of spool up you 'loose' going with the pleum is not worth the 35-50 hp you give up on the big end. Once that turbo is lit, it'll make the power until redline...why not use the small turbine to make whatever torque it will, and the big compressor to run through the RPM?!?

And it' snot just my car...my recent 'clone' with an Enthalpy ECU...runs the same way, and is within 15 hp of my car, with tis' initial (read: non updated) tune...hell yea!

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Cody, I have a question for you, that maybe you can answer....if you had a boost vs. RPM curve to go with your dyno chart, it would help me answer it....

When boost first starts builiding, and finally reaches it's max value....does the RPM where you finally hit peak boost correspond to the "shoulder" in your dyno curve (i.e. around 4300 RPM for you).....?

Again, the Dynojet applies no load. On street, I'm seeing 20 psi before 4000 rpm. Again, i use a .64 exhaust housing, which IMO is the ticket. Certainly the turbine will help determine power creation, but we're still working with t2 flange...to me, there is ZERO ZERO ZERO ZERO advantage of the .86 turbine in our applications, aside from maybe backpressure ratio...which who cares with our street setups.

Originally Posted by jspaeth

I am trying to understand if it's possible that I am hitting full boost before the "shoulder" in my torque curve or if on that particular dyno pull on my dyno chart, the turbo just spooled late...

On the street, let's say from low RPM in 2nd or 3rd gear, I seem to hit ~20 psi by around 4000 RPM or so, but my dyno chart shows that I don't hit that torque "shoulder" till around 4700 RPM....

Whree you see that shoulder, or where you see the initial peak torque go 'right' on the graph is where your full spool is. I'm not sure why Jeff's dyno spooled your car late, but it's definetly a .64 vs .86 issue too, as those two turbins will spool 500-1000 rpm's differently.

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

Ken, I know Steve doesn't really like the Greddy Intake Manifold, but for your 0.86 housing, it looks like you are already spooling kinda ate...

I am wondering if switching to a Greddy IM could really help your top end a whole lot without really hurting spool time....

Which boost controller are you running, and which cams?

I am not sure what you mean by spooling late, please remember this is on a dyno dynamics, so not sure what you mean and by what metrics you are measuring...

I don't think boost controller really matters as I currently am using a 2 step setting based on speed 14 and 18PSi....

I am only using HKS 264 Step 1's which is only 10.5mm lift.... so that might also account for drop off at the top....

By no means am I looking for peak horsepower and peak torque.... I drive my car on the track, which I need a manageable car, which is a very linear torque band and horsepower band.... Which I am pretty happy with... Any sort of jump or skip up in the torque band means spinning the tires which is useless in road race applications for me....

[jspaeth]

Originally Posted by slider2828

By no means am I looking for peak horsepower and peak torque.... I drive my car on the track, which I need a manageable car, which is a very linear torque band and horsepower band.... Which I am pretty happy with... Any sort of jump or skip up in the torque band means spinning the tires which is useless in road race applications for me....

True!

Originally Posted by codyace

Whree you see that shoulder, or where you see the initial peak torque go 'right' on the graph is where your full spool is. I'm not sure why Jeff's dyno spooled your car late, but it's definetly a .64 vs .86 issue too, as those two turbins will spool 500-1000 rpm's differently.

So basically, I can infer that from my dyno, the torque goes "up and to the right" between 2000-4700 RPM, and then it goes almost "straight to the right"...

SO I could infer from that, that on that particular run, I didn't hit full boost until 4700 RPM?....I asked Jeff for the boost logs for that run, but he said he didn't have them....

I can tell you for a fact that on the street, I hit full boost as early as 4K, definitely no later than 4200 RPM.....

So I am wondering if the real "shape" of my tq curve is actually closer to yours....

.....now I just need to find out why I am missing ~30-40 ft-lbs of torque across the board from 4000-7000 RPM compared to your setup.


Surely some of this is the extrude-honed manifold, and I'm sure the other part of it is a VERY conservative tune.


My wideband has been calibrated (brand new) and placed in my test pipe (good location), and on full throttle pulls, my AFRs jump around in the 10.5-11.5 range.

Certainly a little on the rich side, but safe!....also Steve looked at my timing map and said it's "less than perfect" hahaha

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

True!



So basically, I can infer that from my dyno, the torque goes "up and to the right" between 2000-4700 RPM, and then it goes almost "straight to the right"...

SO I could infer from that, that on that particular run, I didn't hit full boost until 4700 RPM?....I asked Jeff for the boost logs for that run, but he said he didn't have them....

I can tell you for a fact that on the street, I hit full boost as early as 4K, definitely no later than 4200 RPM.....

So I am wondering if the real "shape" of my tq curve is actually closer to yours....

.....now I just need to find out why I am missing ~30-40 ft-lbs of torque across the board from 4000-7000 RPM compared to your setup.


Surely some of this is the extrude-honed manifold, and I'm sure the other part of it is a VERY conservative tune.


My wideband has been calibrated (brand new) and placed in my test pipe (good location), and on full throttle pulls, my AFRs jump around in the 10.5-11.5 range.

Certainly a little on the rich side, but safe!....also Steve looked at my timing map and said it's "less than perfect" hahaha

Cody is right though... I really don't like the torque fall off... but I think 264 Step 1s really aren't made for that high end torque curve.... But I like the linearity of it... Mid range I like a lot coupled with the boost controller. At this point I am only running 18PSI at the top which I hope will make this reliable as I am not really pushing the turbo all the way to its peak efficiency....

I am guessing 326WHP on a DD is probably close to 380 on a dynojet... which isn't really bad on 18PSI. Also I think max torque is about 305 so that would be close to 315 or 320 or so..... Very happy about it.... now to more important stuff like better cooling for this setup. Like WhiteGLX said, SR20's at this HP generate a LOT of heat and is borderline not very reliable, so I am going to work a lot on that.... In terms of power, I think I am going to leave it as is.....

[codyace]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

I can tell you for a fact that on the street, I hit full boost as early as 4K, definitely no later than 4200 RPM.....

So I am wondering if the real "shape" of my tq curve is actually closer to yours....

Well remember, my dyno again was without load...so it spooled much later than it does (nearly 500 to 700 rpm of difference). My curve would have the first 'hump' before 4000 on a load bearing dyno.

In regard to the torque, it's hard to say. Timing will certainly create torque, however lets also not forget that I'm on a Jim Wolf Rom tune...which by design is 'safe' (tuned for 91 as I asked). I have yet to re dyno with the meth, but I'm hoping I get some more power from that as well in spring time (my entire front and rear suspension is off the car at the moment hehe)

Remember, once you approach the 350-400 range, it's all about having fun there. So one car willt rap 120 and one 118...not a huge difference in the fun department ya know?

Originally Posted by slider2828

Cody is right though... I really don't like the torque fall off... but I think 264 Step 1s really aren't made for that high end torque curve.... But I like the linearity of it... Mid range I like a lot coupled with the boost controller. At this point I am only running 18PSI at the top which I hope will make this reliable as I am not really pushing the turbo all the way to its peak efficiency....

My S3's are only 260 duration .442 lift (11.2mm) and they have plenty of top end hehe. Then again I also have a greddy plenum as well.

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by codyace

Well remember, my dyno again was without load...so it spooled much later than it does (nearly 500 to 700 rpm of difference). My curve would have the first 'hump' before 4000 on a load bearing dyno.

In regard to the torque, it's hard to say. Timing will certainly create torque, however lets also not forget that I'm on a Jim Wolf Rom tune...which by design is 'safe' (tuned for 91 as I asked). I have yet to re dyno with the meth, but I'm hoping I get some more power from that as well in spring time (my entire front and rear suspension is off the car at the moment hehe)

Remember, once you approach the 350-400 range, it's all about having fun there. So one car willt rap 120 and one 118...not a huge difference in the fun department ya know?




My S3's are only 260 duration .442 lift (11.2mm) and they have plenty of top end hehe. Then again I also have a greddy plenum as well.

Hahah yeah.... .7mm lift is a big difference.... but the greddy plenum helps.... .64 is a great complement with the greddy plenum, I just went the other way... Oh wellz happy mediums....

But totally agree with you... once you get into the 350-400 range, you got bigger stuff to deal with. #1 is heat, #2 is suspension and probably need damn good ones that reduce squat on such big torque but enough travel to corner.....

Good power is good, but well handling I can tell you is a lot more fun.....

[codyace]

Originally Posted by slider2828

Good power is good, but well handling I can tell you is a lot more fun.....

Yea, I know a little about that too


A quick spooling nimble 350 hp car is just so perfect on so many aspects

[slider2828]

^^ Hahah Ripped from website hahaha... S13 is a little lighter, but man the s14 I think handles better in terms of geometry... What coils you running codyace?

[codyace]

Originally Posted by slider2828

^^ Hahah Ripped from website hahaha... S13 is a little lighter, but man the s14 I think handles better in terms of geometry... What coils you running codyace?

Hehe track time photos. I have a 70-300 lens, but it's hard to take pics and drive at the same time. I just steal his and roll with it.

Be prepared to laugh, I initially had EXV's on it, sold em, got MR Street (8k/6k)'s and have been using them for 2 years now. I'll be the first to say, that they were a great bargain coilover that I had ZERO issues with. The biggest thing you need to do once you get them is to remove the preload they come with. I Felt that about half way (12-16 clicks) was the best setting for them...full hard became a mess. I really am confused at many who bash them in the manner of 'zomg MR, you're gonna crash and die', as it's very false...I'll be hard pressed to find anyone who has pressed the bargain coilovers as hard as I, and while they could be better, for the price of them, I'm very satifised (and I have experience running many other cars with big dollar suspensions too).

I'm in the process of building a real suspension now, with 8611 Koni's, custom lower housings, ground control coilovers with 550lb/450lb springs, and all the associated goodness. Doing Def's FLCA setup, and changing things around. Right now the car has ZERO suspension on it, just the brake calipers hanging from the strut towers via zip ties hehe.

[slider2828]

^^ Funny... I have the same MR Setup but tracks... Its a totally mess cause the spring rate is 12/10 which is way too stiff for any track and s13... 10/8 would be great as I run slicks.... I know the koni suspension setup, but I am just going to save up for some DG5's.... But still I feel I haven't squeezed all the performance outta this setup yet.

I think its a great problem and I daily and track the car very often....

[codyace]

Originally Posted by slider2828

^^ Funny... I have the same MR Setup but tracks... Its a totally mess cause the spring rate is 12/10 which is way too stiff for any track and s13... 10/8 would be great as I run slicks.... I know the koni suspension setup, but I am just going to save up for some DG5's.... But still I feel I haven't squeezed all the performance outta this setup yet.

I think its a great problem and I daily and track the car very often....

Very true on the hardcore springs on lesser dampners...that to me is the biggest issue with JDM coilovers. The spring rates aren't so much an issue (as you know) once you get a good dampener under them. And yes, a 10/8 setup (which is essentially when i'm looking at doing with the 550/450) seems the best of both worlds. I'll eventually look at a 650 spring as well if I neede it, and put the 550 out back, but I think I'll be good.


I looked into the DG5's as well, but for me the Koni's were a much more attractive option, especially in the event something needs to be rebuilt or revalved, as you can't beat USA based support and operations. I Also like the ability to change spring rate if needed as well, for almost nothing. In the end they are going to cost similar though, and you're not gonna go wrong either way.

[jspaeth]

I'll continue with the suspension discussion....

I have literally every single suspension piece on my S14 replaced with aftermarket, adjustable pillowball endlink style pieces.

....except front and rear lower control arms, which are stock.

Aside from swapping out for adjustable arms, having decent coilovers, and getting a correct (track) alignment, what else have you done to make your suspension "track ready"....

I know suspension can get rather complicated, as I have read books on the topic, but most of the adjustments require extensive testing and retesting....

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

I'll continue with the suspension discussion....

I have literally every single suspension piece on my S14 replaced with aftermarket, adjustable pillowball endlink style pieces.

....except front and rear lower control arms, which are stock.

Aside from swapping out for adjustable arms, having decent coilovers, and getting a correct (track) alignment, what else have you done to make your suspension "track ready"....

I know suspension can get rather complicated, as I have read books on the topic, but most of the adjustments require extensive testing and retesting....

I am not a fan of having everything adjustable as my car isn't lowered that much.



But it depends on tire compound and stuff. I am not sure what tracks you guys run, but that can very suspension settings a lot. As for right now, I am just having everything in spec and running about -1 at the back and -2.5 in the front. Castor and toe all 0. But suspension spring rate and dampening is important and 12/10 is crap.... 10/8 is perfect at least for S13 on slicks...

Oil cooling. Big thing and Breather setup. With our turbos and that much horsepower, you can bake your motor like easy. I have a 19 Row Setrab with -10AN lines, Koyo Rad with Stock Clutch fan, Blitz LM Spec Intercooler... Is all a must and a aero front bumper for wider opening. Brakes for sure such as at least z32 with race pads. I have long straights like I am on Laguna Seca or Thill, so I am barreling down 150 and I better stop. So I am on Porterfield R4 Race Compound. But yeah cooling is a big deal on our turbo, I am about to buy another stock hood and cut it up for venting lol.... Laguna is Hell for cars, 4th gear up hill pulls man for a long time....

[codyace]

Originally Posted by jspaeth

I'll continue with the suspension discussion....

Originally Posted by slider2828

I am not a fan of having everything adjustable as my car isn't lowered that much.

Check your PM's guys

Originally Posted by slider2828

.... Laguna is Hell for cars, 4th gear up hill pulls man for a long time....

I'd love a chance to race there. I keep my boost controller set at 12 psi for track days. Right off the gate.

[slider2828]

Originally Posted by codyace

Check your PM's guys



I'd love a chance to race there. I keep my boost controller set at 12 psi for track days. Right off the gate.

Hahaha, I am going all out 18.... with the new oil cooler and cooling ducts, I hope it can stay under 195F.... 14PSI I was barely able to do it... but still spanking porsches at that... hahahah

[idahotuner]

Originally Posted by codyace

And it' snot just my car...my recent 'clone' with an Enthalpy ECU...runs the same way, and is within 15 hp of my car, with tis' initial (read: non updated) tune...hell yea!

who is this "recent clone" we are talking about lol.?? i have decided on the gt3076r .63 now combined with everything else i had with my gt2871r .64 setup

see what numbers that puts down at the end of the summer.

[mattsil80wis]

Originally Posted by idahotuner

who is this "recent clone" we are talking about lol.?? i have decided on the gt3076r .63 now combined with everything else i had with my gt2871r .64 setup

see what numbers that puts down at the end of the summer.

hes talking about me and my sil80

[longfellow]

What clutches are you guys using on the 2871 set ups?