Drift entrance techniques/form - Page 44 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

yokotavia · 04-28-2012, 06:31 PM

Most normal alignment machines won't measure rear caster, which is dialed in with the traction rods. They should be able to do everything else though, you may need to explain your aftermarket arms though. Just make sure the machine is up to date. If its old it may be very tedious to use and its not uncommon for techs to cut corners because of it. Usually big tire distribution shops and dealerships have nice machines. Your best bet is still a race shop.

KA240SX808 · 04-28-2012, 08:08 PM

You can determine your Traction Rod length if you know your RUCA length. Do some bumpsteer calc for the rear and you can adjust the trac rod length to your desired toe curve under droop and compression.

pacotaco345 · 04-28-2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA240SX808

You can determine your Traction Rod length if you know your RUCA length. Do some bumpsteer calc for the rear and you can adjust the trac rod length to your desired toe curve under droop and compression.

Is there any formula/math that you know to do this? I've been wanting to get traction rods but I can't justify it because I don't know how to adjust them/what adjusting them actually does.

KA240SX808 · 04-28-2012, 11:01 PM

There is. I have it saved somewhere. I'll try to look for it. Unless someone finds it before me.

cmg · 04-28-2012, 11:32 PM

Any shop that does alignments should be able to adjust everything except rear caster. Some alignment machines wont show rear caster. No need to really mess with that anyways.

word sux · 04-29-2012, 09:36 AM

I am pretty sure that there are no alignment machines that can measure rear caster since you can't sweep the rear wheels. Most shops don't want to mess with aftermarket arms, if your located in the south ny area pm me and I can align it.

and kid I would love that formula, I have always just set my rear traction rods to the stock length.

pacotaco345 · 04-29-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA240SX808

There is. I have it saved somewhere. I'll try to look for it. Unless someone finds it before me.

Cool thanks! I have summer plans for my car that include new wheels/tires and an actual alignment from a friends shop so that would be great

KA240SX808 · 04-29-2012, 04:49 PM

I will advise you guys that IIRC the measurements were taken and formulated using an S14. Not quite sure if the Angle of the RLCA (Anti-Squat) plays a part in the determination of the Trac Rod/Toe curve you want.

paco - send me a PM with your eMail and I'll send you a copy when I find that xls
word - hit me up on 240SXF

Chris28 · 05-01-2012, 01:27 PM

Hey guys, looking for some pointers for more aggressive transfers. I've gotten into the habit of e-braking every transfer because it's more predictable and I can put the car exactly where I want it. I guess it's not a bad thing, but I'd like to be able to transfer faster and stay on the power more. It seems like when I don't use the e-brake I always spin, mainly due to the car rotating faster than the steering wheel can keep up. Last weekend I tried a few runs without the e-brake, and on the downhill section I gained way too much speed and had to reach for the e-brake to scrub some off. Any input on how to get away from the e-brake while still maintaining reasonable speeds?

Here's a video from last event, you can really see how much I rely on the e-brake for pretty much everything.

One_love_silvia · 05-01-2012, 01:48 PM

Have you tried just releasing the gas pedal, and letting the steering wheel spin back where it needs to be, and then catch it? You can use the gas and steering wheel to put the car wheee you want it.

Chris28 · 05-01-2012, 02:01 PM

I did for a few runs, but the way I'm used to getting angle is with the e-brake. Without it I was using throttle to get to the angle I wanted, but at that point I was going too fast and had to scrub speed with the e-brake. I know I just need to drive an event with the ebrake taped down or something, but I'm wondering if anyone else has ever had to break a nasty ebrake habit and how they did it haha.

fckillerbee · 05-01-2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris28

Hey guys, looking for some pointers for more aggressive transfers. I've gotten into the habit of e-braking every transfer because it's more predictable and I can put the car exactly where I want it. I guess it's not a bad thing, but I'd like to be able to transfer faster and stay on the power more. It seems like when I don't use the e-brake I always spin, mainly due to the car rotating faster than the steering wheel can keep up. Last weekend I tried a few runs without the e-brake, and on the downhill section I gained way too much speed and had to reach for the e-brake to scrub some off. Any input on how to get away from the e-brake while still maintaining reasonable speeds?

Here's a video from last event, you can really see how much I rely on the e-brake for pretty much everything.

it's your hands. Keep them at the normal 10 and 2. let the steering wheel do the work for you. You are trying too hard to keep the car drifting...stay on the throttle, and feel the weight shake back and forth when you lift and get back on throttle. Your hands should only be there to help the input. Steer by throttle.

this was a few years back...but i'm sure you get the idea.

in car steering wheel drifting - YouTube

HellaDough · 05-02-2012, 03:00 AM

damn i wish some one would make an instructionall video for the noobs you know. something to get them rolling.

fckillerbee · 05-02-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellaDough

damn i wish some one would make an instructionall video for the noobs you know. something to get them rolling.

they called it the drift bible.

noobs just need to go to a track event and actually ASK instructors for help. One day at the track, will teach you everything basic. After 5 events, you should be able to drift with the rest of them.

JohnnyDrfiter22 · 05-02-2012, 11:22 AM

Chris28 its your hands and your letting off the throttle to much. From what the in car looks like your car front tires are pushing and your rear tires are gripping.

Trying clutch kicking instead of ebraking and use the ebrake to scrub speed, gain angle

702s13 · 05-02-2012, 11:56 AM

fckillerbee... you make it look so easy! i love how your still n/a ka in that vid too, just shows you dont need gobs of power to be able to drift good. i cant wait till im that confident in my drifts like that.

fckillerbee · 05-02-2012, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 702s13

fckillerbee... you make it look so easy! i love how your still n/a ka in that vid too, just shows you dont need gobs of power to be able to drift good. i cant wait till im that confident in my drifts like that.

and that motor was slow as shit lol. those are 205 55 16's. tire pressure is around 50 psi cold. 1 degree of rear camber. zero toe around. -4.5 camber front. I believe I was running Federal RS tires in the front...it makes KA's a lot easier to drift with grippy up front.

Car setup is very important to accel quickley in a car. Not some super serious setup, but at least an alignment, and propper front tires. Each driver is different...so your preferences may change.

702s13 · 05-02-2012, 01:17 PM

thats alot of camber im wondering if i should give mine a little more, im at -1.9 front and
-.8 rear, .10 front toe, on coils.. and my pressures are like 25 front and 50-55 rear cold. it drifts pretty well but my steering is nothing like yours. oh and my caster is stock ish lol.
and my front tires are pretty grippy, running 205/50r17 all around it kicks out pretty easy.

di-devol · 05-02-2012, 01:38 PM

I'm having a bit of trouble drifting in the new setup. I've drifted the whole time using a stock sr, now built motor, tomei 256's gt2871r @15psi. I'm having a really hard time getting the car to break loose, maybe I just need more time at it. It feels like the car is bogging alot more when initiating, did I really lose that much low end? I'm having to really rev it up before kicking it out now, that normal lol?

fckillerbee · 05-02-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by di-devol

I'm having a bit of trouble drifting in the new setup. I've drifted the whole time using a stock sr, now built motor, tomei 256's gt2871r @15psi. I'm having a really hard time getting the car to break loose, maybe I just need more time at it. It feels like the car is bogging alot more when initiating, did I really lose that much low end? I'm having to really rev it up before kicking it out now, that normal lol?

well...boost should start right under 4k depending on manifolds and other stuff. that's a pretty mild setup...and you shouldn't have any issues. same tires/ suspension setup as before? just more power?

di-devol · 05-02-2012, 05:22 PM

Turbo is an .86 I believe. Full boost is at 4500 or so.

Hmm went from -4ish camber in the rear to -1, tire size is little bigger, normally 225/45 to a 235/45/17. Different control arms up front, but I don't see how that would matter. I didn't get many runs in, just seemed really difficult to break her loose.

I thought maybe the clutch was slipping, but it's more of a bogging. Car pulls hard, and I don't smell clutch haha.

fckillerbee · 05-02-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by di-devol

Turbo is an .86 I believe. Full boost is at 4500 or so.

Hmm went from -4ish camber in the rear to -1, tire size is little bigger, normally 225/45 to a 235/45/17. Different control arms up front, but I don't see how that would matter. I didn't get many runs in, just seemed really difficult to break her loose.

I thought maybe the clutch was slipping, but it's more of a bogging. Car pulls hard, and I don't smell clutch haha.

changing front camber changes turn in and contact patch mid drift (more contact going strait, less contact while drifting...you'll feel more understeer). The control arms will make a difference...but not by much. and running a 235 will make it grippier, especially with that larger 45 series sidewall. You are just getting more grip out of the tire.

Sounds like you may need to just drive it really aggressive. try to get on the throttle sooner too....the turbo you are running is pretty much ideal....and i've driven more than a few with that setup. Try raising the tire pressure in 10lb intervals, and see if that helps with your bogging problem.

di-devol · 05-02-2012, 05:49 PM

I think that's the problem, I was just excited to be drifting again, I forgot I changed everything. I was just trying to drift like it was haha. Thanks!

fckillerbee · 05-02-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by di-devol

I think that's the problem, I was just excited to be drifting again, I forgot I changed everything. I was just trying to drift like it was haha. Thanks!

no worries man. Next time take an in car vid....i can give you advice from the passenger seat then. lol

ziptie · 05-03-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris28

Here's a video from last event, you can really see how much I rely on the e-brake for pretty much everything.

I have the exact opposite problem, i learnt without the handbrake because mine was broken. The problem is I feel like im entering a lot later then i should be because of it.

bataangpinoy · 05-03-2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziptie

I have the exact opposite problem, i learnt without the handbrake because mine was broken. The problem is I feel like im entering a lot later then i should be because of it.

Generally speaking, faster corners will allow one to use a multitude of techniques for early entries as you'll have more momentum to keep the car sliding.

I had the exact same problem, but only when entering super low speed corners (think 90* turns in a short, narrow industrial road). i dont think i was going more than 30mph because of how short and narrow the straight leading to the turn was.

word sux · 05-03-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris28

Hey guys, looking for some pointers for more aggressive transfers. I've gotten into the habit of e-braking every transfer because it's more predictable and I can put the car exactly where I want it. I guess it's not a bad thing, but I'd like to be able to transfer faster and stay on the power more. It seems like when I don't use the e-brake I always spin, mainly due to the car rotating faster than the steering wheel can keep up. Last weekend I tried a few runs without the e-brake, and on the downhill section I gained way too much speed and had to reach for the e-brake to scrub some off. Any input on how to get away from the e-brake while still maintaining reasonable speeds?

Here's a video from last event, you can really see how much I rely on the e-brake for pretty much everything.

as stated before is seems like you need to let the car steer itself more

that being said, has your car been properly aligned? with a proper setup it will make things allot easier

Chris28 · 05-04-2012, 09:46 AM

Thanks for the responses. Next track day is in a few weeks, I'll try to do more with the gas pedal and less with my hands. I haven't had the car aligned in a while, I'll be getting a real alignment before the track.

Chris28 · 05-04-2012, 11:25 PM

Literally this video is what made me start using the e-brake so much. I guess it's just a safety factor thing, I only grab it on the 2nd half of the transfer, basically to control exactly how much angle the car gets and then go from there. I need to try other techniques, but after watching this video like 2 years ago I decided that e-braking was the best thing ever haha.
Deleted

TrustS13 · 05-05-2012, 01:37 PM

Chris I know the feeling. I used to always clutch kick to initiate, but I do find ebrake to be more fun and precise. I think you do need to let the car steer itself more, and both hands on the wheel. I can't do the 1 hand wheel whip as well as you lol. I would say in your transfers let it go to almost full lock and romp on the gas while doing this also. I need to learn be more controlled (like you are) personally.

04-28-2012, 06:31 PM	#1291
yokotavia Zilvia Addict Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The land of bosos and schoolgirls Posts: 679 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Most normal alignment machines won't measure rear caster, which is dialed in with the traction rods. They should be able to do everything else though, you may need to explain your aftermarket arms though. Just make sure the machine is up to date. If its old it may be very tedious to use and its not uncommon for techs to cut corners because of it. Usually big tire distribution shops and dealerships have nice machines. Your best bet is still a race shop. __________________ Banana boat chronicles

05-01-2012, 01:48 PM	#1300
One_love_silvia Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: San Diego, CA So Cal Posts: 1,898 Trader Rating: (38) Feedback Score: 38 reviews	Have you tried just releasing the gas pedal, and letting the steering wheel spin back where it needs to be, and then catch it? You can use the gas and steering wheel to put the car wheee you want it. __________________ 2016 Nissan 370z

05-02-2012, 11:56 AM	#1306
702s13 Leaky Injector Join Date: May 2011 Location: Las Vegas Age: 36 Posts: 70 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	fckillerbee... you make it look so easy! i love how your still n/a ka in that vid too, just shows you dont need gobs of power to be able to drift good. i cant wait till im that confident in my drifts like that. __________________ extrabolts are just weight reduction

05-02-2012, 01:17 PM	#1308
702s13 Leaky Injector Join Date: May 2011 Location: Las Vegas Age: 36 Posts: 70 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	thats alot of camber im wondering if i should give mine a little more, im at -1.9 front and -.8 rear, .10 front toe, on coils.. and my pressures are like 25 front and 50-55 rear cold. it drifts pretty well but my steering is nothing like yours. oh and my caster is stock ish lol. and my front tires are pretty grippy, running 205/50r17 all around it kicks out pretty easy. __________________ extrabolts are just weight reduction

04-28-2012, 11:32 PM	#1295
cmg Zilvia Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Florida Posts: 158 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Any shop that does alignments should be able to adjust everything except rear caster. Some alignment machines wont show rear caster. No need to really mess with that anyways.

04-29-2012, 09:36 AM	#1296
word sux Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: earth Age: 62 Posts: 1,138 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I am pretty sure that there are no alignment machines that can measure rear caster since you can't sweep the rear wheels. Most shops don't want to mess with aftermarket arms, if your located in the south ny area pm me and I can align it. and kid I would love that formula, I have always just set my rear traction rods to the stock length.

05-01-2012, 01:27 PM	#1299
Chris28 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: 757/919 Age: 34 Posts: 196 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Hey guys, looking for some pointers for more aggressive transfers. I've gotten into the habit of e-braking every transfer because it's more predictable and I can put the car exactly where I want it. I guess it's not a bad thing, but I'd like to be able to transfer faster and stay on the power more. It seems like when I don't use the e-brake I always spin, mainly due to the car rotating faster than the steering wheel can keep up. Last weekend I tried a few runs without the e-brake, and on the downhill section I gained way too much speed and had to reach for the e-brake to scrub some off. Any input on how to get away from the e-brake while still maintaining reasonable speeds? Here's a video from last event, you can really see how much I rely on the e-brake for pretty much everything.

05-01-2012, 02:01 PM	#1301
Chris28 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: 757/919 Age: 34 Posts: 196 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I did for a few runs, but the way I'm used to getting angle is with the e-brake. Without it I was using throttle to get to the angle I wanted, but at that point I was going too fast and had to scrub speed with the e-brake. I know I just need to drive an event with the ebrake taped down or something, but I'm wondering if anyone else has ever had to break a nasty ebrake habit and how they did it haha.

05-02-2012, 03:00 AM	#1303
HellaDough Leaky Injector Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: SAN JOSE CALIFAS Posts: 128 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	damn i wish some one would make an instructionall video for the noobs you know. something to get them rolling.

05-02-2012, 11:22 AM	#1305
JohnnyDrfiter22 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New Jersey Age: 41 Posts: 670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Chris28 its your hands and your letting off the throttle to much. From what the in car looks like your car front tires are pushing and your rear tires are gripping. Trying clutch kicking instead of ebraking and use the ebrake to scrub speed, gain angle

05-02-2012, 01:38 PM	#1309
di-devol Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Woodinville Age: 42 Posts: 1,412 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	I'm having a bit of trouble drifting in the new setup. I've drifted the whole time using a stock sr, now built motor, tomei 256's gt2871r @15psi. I'm having a really hard time getting the car to break loose, maybe I just need more time at it. It feels like the car is bogging alot more when initiating, did I really lose that much low end? I'm having to really rev it up before kicking it out now, that normal lol?

05-02-2012, 05:22 PM	#1311
di-devol Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Woodinville Age: 42 Posts: 1,412 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Turbo is an .86 I believe. Full boost is at 4500 or so. Hmm went from -4ish camber in the rear to -1, tire size is little bigger, normally 225/45 to a 235/45/17. Different control arms up front, but I don't see how that would matter. I didn't get many runs in, just seemed really difficult to break her loose. I thought maybe the clutch was slipping, but it's more of a bogging. Car pulls hard, and I don't smell clutch haha.

05-02-2012, 05:49 PM	#1313
di-devol Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Woodinville Age: 42 Posts: 1,412 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	I think that's the problem, I was just excited to be drifting again, I forgot I changed everything. I was just trying to drift like it was haha. Thanks!

05-04-2012, 09:46 AM	#1318
Chris28 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: 757/919 Age: 34 Posts: 196 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Thanks for the responses. Next track day is in a few weeks, I'll try to do more with the gas pedal and less with my hands. I haven't had the car aligned in a while, I'll be getting a real alignment before the track.

05-04-2012, 11:25 PM	#1319
Chris28 Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: 757/919 Age: 34 Posts: 196 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Literally this video is what made me start using the e-brake so much. I guess it's just a safety factor thing, I only grab it on the 2nd half of the transfer, basically to control exactly how much angle the car gets and then go from there. I need to try other techniques, but after watching this video like 2 years ago I decided that e-braking was the best thing ever haha. Deleted

05-05-2012, 01:37 PM	#1320
TrustS13 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Greensboro, NC Age: 36 Posts: 631 Trader Rating: (16) Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Chris I know the feeling. I used to always clutch kick to initiate, but I do find ebrake to be more fun and precise. I think you do need to let the car steer itself more, and both hands on the wheel. I can't do the 1 hand wheel whip as well as you lol. I would say in your transfers let it go to almost full lock and romp on the gas while doing this also. I need to learn be more controlled (like you are) personally.