The Future Automotive Thread

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

new 86 might get a turbo. hopefully it?ll pan out

https://www.motortrend.com/news/future-cars-toyota-86/

Beat me to it.

With this much info saying it will be the 2.4t it seems like it?s more than likely at this point.

Also interesting that they are moving to the TNGA-N platform. That?s the platform the Lexus IS, GS and RC are on. We?ll see about that. That platform isn?t exactly the lightest, sportiest platform out there. The current platform has never been the problem with the Twins, it?s been the lack of power. Also strange they would still use a Subaru engine and put it in a Toyota platform. Seems like a lot of over/extra engineering.

But man if we’re talking a mini Supra with 250-260hp and manual I am all the fuck in.

The Stinger is getting a refresh with more power. Hopefully they hang on for a bit and they decide to make a second gen. The car deserves it.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/05/07/...er-spy-photos/

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Beat me to it.

With this much info saying it will be the 2.4t it seems like it?s more than likely at this point.

Also interesting that they are moving to the TNGA-N platform. That?s the platform the Lexus IS, GS and RC are on. We?ll see about that. That platform isn?t exactly the lightest, sportiest platform out there. The current platform has never been the problem with the Twins, it?s been the lack of power. Also strange they would still use a Subaru engine and put it in a Toyota platform. Seems like a lot of over/extra engineering.

But man if we?re talking a mini Supra with 250-260hp and manual I am all the fuck in.

The platform should definitely be lighter after tweaking it down to 86'esque dimensions (if they plan to keep it the same size).

They're probably contractually obligated to stick with a Subaru powerplant. Otherwise I think it would've been a no-brainer they put the turbo inline 4 from the IS200t a long time ago.

This looks familiar to a "silvia" type vehicle being brought to the US to potentially cannibalize sales of the bread n butter "300zx." The difference is Nissan didn't go through with it. Toyota doesn't seem to care (fortunately).

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

The platform should definitely be lighter after tweaking it down to 86'esque dimensions (if they plan to keep it the same size).

They're probably contractually obligated to stick with a Subaru powerplant. Otherwise I think it would've been a no-brainer they put the turbo inline 4 from the IS200t a long time ago.

This looks familiar to a "silvia" type vehicle being brought to the US to potentially cannibalize sales of the bread n butter "300zx." The difference is Nissan didn't go through with it. Toyota doesn't seem to care (fortunately).

Ya except Nissan never wished to Cannibalize sales of the 300ZX . The Reason we did not get A: the CA18 or SR20 were two fold first off the engines would have to have been EPA and CARB certified. The KA was already in that basket because it was being used in the pickup . It had butt loads of torque so it worked in their eyes.
The second part which you should now was the fear that putting a Turbocharged engine in the car would indeed possibly cannibalize sales of the NA 300zx . Which ironically did happen in Japan in fact the 180sx swept the floor with the car lol.
It was those two things.

Now today is much different. Toyota is not selling a NA Supra ya they are doing a smaller engine version but thats a head scratcher to me.
Truth is the price points of the two cars are far enough apart to pull it off. The price points of a NA 300ZX was not as far off from the 240sx. 17k to 20k vs 30K for a NA Z put a turbo in the 240sx and the price would go up narrowing that gap drastically.

Now look at the Hakone GT86 the most expensive 86 its coming in at around 30k which is actually pricey and could probably be had cheaper if one is Savvy and the Supra which is 50-55k that is pretty much a 20-25k difference in price even adding a turbo would still leave at least a 15k pricing gap.
One could also speculate that by adding in the 4 cylinder turbo Toyota could inch the price of the straight 6 version upwards and put the 4 cylinder at 50k. lol

So ya after analysis your analogy kinda falls short.

[exitspeed]

Dream scenario...

Toyota takes the new shrunken platform for the GR86, makes a small Toyota RWD sedan AND a wagon version AND it’s offered in stick. Looks like a bigger Corolla hatch but with 260hp.

Ok I’m leaving fantasy land now.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Dream scenario...

Toyota takes the new shrunken platform for the GR86, makes a small Toyota RWD sedan AND a wagon version AND it?s offered in stick. Looks like a bigger Corolla hatch but with 260hp.

Ok I?m leaving fantasy land now.

Well your dream is like 30% coming true haha.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...onfirmed-2022/

I actually don't mind that thing. No idea what a 3cyl turbo sounds like at WOT, but it probably sounds oddly cool. A 3-cyl turbo RWD toyota would be even cooler though.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

Well your dream is like 30% coming true haha.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...onfirmed-2022/

I actually don't mind that thing. No idea what a 3cyl turbo sounds like at WOT, but it probably sounds oddly cool. A 3-cyl turbo RWD toyota would be even cooler though.

Yeah that thing is nice. Makes the Civic look even more horrible.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Now look at the Hakone GT86 the most expensive 86 its coming in at around 30k which is actually pricey and could probably be had cheaper if one is Savvy and the Supra which is 50-55k that is pretty much a 20-25k difference in price even adding a turbo would still leave at least a 15k pricing gap.
One could also speculate that by adding in the 4 cylinder turbo Toyota could inch the price of the straight 6 version upwards and put the 4 cylinder at 50k. lol

So ya after analysis your analogy kinda falls short.

If the new turbo cars come in close to 30K they will be in kind of a weird spot. With options most 30k cars easily get to 35-37K.

That would put the twins smack dab in pony car territory. If the average individual is looking for a manual rwd sports coupe in the 30's I think most would go with a pony car. Not to mention the Ecoboost stang is 26.6K msrp.

Hell even though it is a different kind of car, the WRX is 27.4K msrp. It would be odd to me if a BRZ was more.

[ronmcdon]

if you can put looks aside (love the phoenix yellow limited), ctr is a great car and pretty much untouchable performance wise in its class. stock car wise they pretty much dominate evos, wrxs, golf rs at track events Ive been to. supposedly they are easy to live with and have good ride quality too. honda really needs to give the ctr and si auto transmission options to broaden appeal and increase sales.

a 2,800lb awd yaris GR is pretty awesome as it would be a unique offering, but a fwd gr corolla is not so much. maybe a good gti competitor but not sure it can hang with the ctr. to me gti has always been a boring car for people with a lot of body aches. kinda doubtful it will be in the same league as the veloster n+ w anticipated performance increases.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

Well your dream is like 30% coming true haha.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...onfirmed-2022/

I actually don't mind that thing. No idea what a 3cyl turbo sounds like at WOT, but it probably sounds oddly cool. A 3-cyl turbo RWD toyota would be even cooler though.

Ya except thats a consolation prize for the U.S. While the rest of the world gets the AWD Hot Hatch GR Yaris! Which is going to be raced in Pro Rally.

Originally Posted by Future240

If the new turbo cars come in close to 30K they will be in kind of a weird spot. With options most 30k cars easily get to 35-37K.

That would put the twins smack dab in pony car territory. If the average individual is looking for a manual rwd sports coupe in the 30's I think most would go with a pony car. Not to mention the Ecoboost stang is 26.6K msrp.

Hell even though it is a different kind of car, the WRX is 27.4K msrp. It would be odd to me if a BRZ was more.

Except the current WRX is such a ugly, heavy long in the tooth vehicle in comparison . I am sorry but there is nothing inviting about the bloated not so impressive handling current WRX . Its strayed far from what it was originally and the people buying it now buy it for name having no clue as to how good the originals were! IMO

[[240sx]]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

if you can put looks aside (love the phoenix yellow limited), ctr is a great car and pretty much untouchable performance wise in its class. stock car wise they pretty much dominate evos, wrxs, golf rs at track events Ive been to.

Wished the CTR had seating for five.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

if you can put looks aside (love the phoenix yellow limited), ctr is a great car and pretty much untouchable performance wise in its class. stock car wise they pretty much dominate evos, wrxs, golf rs at track events Ive been to. supposedly they are easy to live with and have good ride quality too. honda really needs to give the ctr and si auto transmission options to broaden appeal and increase sales.

a 2,800lb awd yaris GR is pretty awesome as it would be a unique offering, but a fwd gr corolla is not so much. maybe a good gti competitor but not sure it can hang with the ctr. to me gti has always been a boring car for people with a lot of body aches. kinda doubtful it will be in the same league as the veloster n+ w anticipated performance increases.

You cant really compare a "WRX" to a FK8 CTR. The current gen VAB "WRX STI" is the equal comparison.

Best Motoring did a stock and tuned 5lap battle on Tsukuba and the stock WRX STI was able to keep the lead over the CTR until the last turn of the last lap... IMO, the OEM tire difference is why the CTR was able to barely manage that.

The lightly tuned SYMS Racing WRX STI was the clear winner over the SPOON FK8 CIVIC Type R. Same thing when it came to the Touge battle.

People still refuse to give this current gen WRX STI credit, because of internet regurgitation. Or, maybe it's because they see US STI enthusiast putting Monster stickers and knock off crap parts on their cars...

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Except the current WRX is such a ugly, heavy long in the tooth vehicle in comparison . I am sorry but there is nothing inviting about the bloated not so impressive handling current WRX . Its strayed far from what it was originally and the people buying it now buy it for name having no clue as to how good the originals were! IMO

If I had to pick a current (or, even in the past 5yrs) brand new car in the 20-30K range it would easily be the WRX.

[ronmcdon]

GR Corrolla is a consolation prize. I dont see a lot of people buying that at 30k. maybe if were 25k as a civic Si competitor sure.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by BryanSayWhat

If I had to pick a current (or, even in the past 5yrs) brand new car in the 20-30K range it would easily be the WRX.

WRX meh STI
Ya no thank you. Boring looking heavy car for 27K STI $35k Lots I can do with 35k car wise and for a little more buy a lot a more car in something else. Its just kinda of lost its place in the world at that price range.

Plus its a boring Sedan. Ya do not even mention the Civic god 1998 called and wants their Gundam body kit back. That thing is fricken ugly as sin.
The cars you compare to the STI and are talking about do nothing for me either. So its like no thank you. STI yawn!

Oh and I picked a brand new car in that price but got it for under 20k new and its one of the best hot hatches in years. So ya no again. lol
moving right along.

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

GR Corrolla is a consolation prize. I dont see a lot of people buying that at 30k. maybe if were 25k as a civic Si competitor sure.

Yup its pretty much the Toyota equivalent of a FocusST which while not a bad car is a bit bigger than the FiST and is a good 400Lbs heavier.

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

I dont see a lot of people buying that at 30k.

It would probably make for a nice DD/ spirited driving car once it hits the used market. 30k is definitely a bit much considering the GR86 release, though.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Yup its pretty much the Toyota equivalent of a FocusST which while not a bad car is a bit bigger than the FiST and is a good 400Lbs heavier.

I'm interested to see how much the 3-door (if they release it) ends up weighing.

[Corbic]

https://carbuzz.com/news/the-nissan-...-be-in-trouble

Called it.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

https://carbuzz.com/news/the-nissan-...-be-in-trouble

Called it.

As did I.

Which against reiterates what I said, it?s going to be a conservative design and NOT look like a $200k super car.

Nissan just fucking sucks at this point. The solution is so low cost and obvious it?s not even funny. They could phone it the fuck in and still make a cool car that would be a worthy Z.

Take the fucking Q60, new sleeker S30 inspired sheet metal (go as far away from the Z33/34 as possible), lighten it up and make a lightweight 2 seater and offer a 2+2. Offer the same engines (as the Q60). Make a shitload of low cost ?limited? models with NISMO and classic Nissan liveries from the get go (like they?re doing with the current model). Skip the Vert for now. Sell the nostalgia and at least TRY to remind people Nissan exists.

That is super low investment and also helps spread the cost of the platform instead of it just underpinning one (or 2??) vehicles.

Just phone it the fuck in!

[BryanSayWhat]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Boring looking heavy car

For some reason I missed your reply to me.

Anyway, it's crazy how many random people come up to me and compliment my "boring" '15 STI when out driving.

As for "heavy", a '04 STI weighs 3263lbs vs. 3351lbs for the '07 STI (Hawkeye facelift) vs. 3367lbs for my base '15 STI. The difference being that my chassis (current generation) offers more rigidity and high speed stability.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Ya do not even mention the Civic god 1998 called and wants their Gundam body kit back.

The CTR's esthetics have actually grown on me over the years (lol). The only thing that still annoys me is the fake vents, but it looks like they got rid of the front ones for 2020. The 20" rims would have to go though.

[ronmcdon]

Fist is pretty offensive looking car itself. essentially an egg on wheels with cheap looking body kit. I get that its fun driving car but by no stretch is it remotely good looking inside or out. give me a break with all the snooty put downs and take an honest look at your own choice geez

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

Fist is pretty offensive looking car itself. essentially an egg on wheels with cheap looking body kit. I get that its fun driving car but by no stretch is it remotely good looking inside or out. give me a break with all the snooty put downs and take an honest look at your own choice geez

Actually my comments are not snooty put downs and you seemed to have got a bit perturbed by comments. lol

First off the FiST does not look like it has a cheap body kit on it lol. It looks like it does not have a body kit at all lol.

Second off its not offensive looking at all it actually looks not bad for a little hot hatch. In fact I have had it called cute several times lol.

But in the end it just looks like a nice little souped up econo car that actually performs even better than the small body accents would have you think.

Though ya bad body kit lol. Try barely no body kit. With a small extended hatch wing. There is nothing offensive looking about the car.

Seriously though the Civic Type R oh come on please it looks over ten times worse than the FiST do you really want to go down the road of a car looking like its got a bad body kit bolted on it?

That is the CTR in a nutshell and its not a snooty comment its a fucking fact. Seriously get real here lol. It looks terrible.

As for the Subie it just looks boring and quite honestly that is my opinion.
I can get some may like the CTR or the Subie I do not .

Though please anyone who has been in the 240 scene since the late 90s knows full well how the CTR looks like some of the horrible body kits of that era.
maybe you were not around then so you do not know because luckily those bad body kits went away by 2003. All the while there were still great body kits as well.
Yet again the CTR does not mimic those great body kits. Nothing snooty just how I feel so get over it.

Oh and PS if you think the FiST looks so bad why you keep telling me to buy a second one lol.

Shit I am thinking of picking up an NSX and not the new one. I highly doubt I would buy a second FiST unless mine got totaled.


so please just relax and accept the fact that I think the CTR looks terrible and I would not be caught dead driving one. Perhaps you feel that way about the FiST great I get it. Again not snooty just how I feel.

[exitspeed]

Arguing over whether a design looks good or not is pretty pointless. There’s a car out there for everyone.

However there are some cars that are universally loved or loathed.

The E Type, Muira, 300SL, any Aston Martin, etc are pretty universally loved cars. Or on the flip side the Aztek, last gen Monte Carlo, Juke, etc.

I wouldn’t put the FiST is either category honestly. Yeah it’s a fun car but it’s no mostly forgettable by anyone other than enthusiasts.

The CTR though, while appreciated for its performance, it’s only loved in the looks department by fanboys. Honestly that car is up there with an Aztek in the styling department.

[Dutchmalmiss]

Yeah the CTR is definitely a "but she's got a great personality!" kind of car haha. How do you add wider body panels and have the factory wheels look more sunken in than the non Type R models??? Also, regarding seating, I thought it does seat five??

[TheRealSy90]

Originally Posted by Dutchmalmiss

Well your dream is like 30% coming true haha.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...onfirmed-2022/

I actually don't mind that thing. No idea what a 3cyl turbo sounds like at WOT, but it probably sounds oddly cool. A 3-cyl turbo RWD toyota would be even cooler though.

Any time there's a remotely cool car coming out there's also the 99% chance that the US market won't get it.

[exitspeed]

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/05/13/...-datsun-brand/

We?ll see what this May 28th report looks like, but the line ? The sources said Nissan will likely kill loss-making variants? almost certainly kills the idea of a manual Z or a next gen GTR. If they do phone in a Z I doubt it?ll have a manual and they?ll use the Supra a season not to.

[exitspeed]

C&D put a 2020 and a 2021 Supra on a dyno back to back.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...p/CAInd1DF1xM/

And they got a 12.2 in the quarter with the 2020. With the HP bump, even if they did a manual it would still probably do a 12 flat. And for $50k! This is what I?m talking about. Come on Toyota do the right thing!

[Dutchmalmiss]

Yeah I'm starting to think Toyota WILL release a manual Supra, but towards the end of its life cycle to boost sales as like a "legacy" trim or some shit.

If that happens, then yeah, Nissan will follow suit with the Z.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

C&D put a 2020 and a 2021 Supra on a dyno back to back.



https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...p/CAInd1DF1xM/



And they got a 12.2 in the quarter with the 2020. With the HP bump, even if they did a manual it would still probably do a 12 flat. And for $50k! This is what I?m talking about. Come on Toyota do the right thing!

Wow, almost as fast as a Muscle car that costs $10k less.


Good job BMW.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Wow, almost as fast as a Muscle car that costs $10k less.


Good job BMW.

In a straight line only. I was only using the quarter time because they had it in the article but I honestly give zero fucks about 1/4 times anymore. Which is why the Challenger is the least appealing of any of the muscle cars to me.

Also, the Supra isn?t the size of a truck. So there?s that.

Edit: wait, what muscle car runs a 12 flat stock and costs $50k? Mustang GT350’s are $60+, Hellcats start at $60 and go up to like $90 or some shit and ZL1’s start at $60.

[collegekid]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...9BY9W5ijbkqdLs

Not that I can even afford to buy a Supra, but that sounds like it would piss me off. April to November, as long as its not raining I drive with both windows down and my elbows resting on the top of the door frame / door panel.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by collegekid

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...9BY9W5ijbkqdLs

Not that I can even afford to buy a Supra, but that sounds like it would piss me off. April to November, as long as its not raining I drive with both windows down and my elbows resting on the top of the door frame / door panel.

Oh that?s fucking horrible.

[cured13]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Oh that?s fucking horrible.

Don't be a fucking poosy, lol.

Like there is no fucking rainvisors in the working already beside hundreds of other parts for that car that aftermarket companies are working on since - yesterday!
Who gives a fuck about little noise from opened windows haha. Buy Corola for your wife if that's your problem, haha!

Or better yet - MAN UP!