Dear Red States

[Matej]

Originally Posted by imotion s14

I don't own any firearms. Of course you don't care. My stance on the right to bear arms is influenced directly from the personal experience of genocide experienced by my family at the hands of the government.

But continue to revel in your own ignorance you stupid fuck.

Just try to stand up to the government with guns.

There will be two possible outcomes:
A. You get killed, which is the more likely one.
B. You go to prison, and die in there.

If it ever comes down to this big showdown of government vs. the people that everyone is arming themselves for, you can be sure that the government will outlaw and attempt to confiscate all weapons and ammunition long before anyone even knows about it.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Matej

Guns are tools made solely for one nefarious purpose, to kill.

That's like saying putting a Blitz NurSpec exhaust on your car is for illegal street racing.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

That's like saying putting a Blitz NurSpec exhaust on your car is for illegal street racing.

Look at the big picture.

Cars are made to transport people.

Guns are made to shoot people.

Of course they can be used for other things, but generally the above are their main purpose.

Get it?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Matej

Just try to stand up to the government with guns.

There will be two possible outcomes:
A. You get killed, which is the more likely one.
B. You go to prison, and die in there.

If it ever comes down to this big showdown of government vs. the people that everyone is arming themselves for, you can be sure that the government will outlaw and attempt to confiscate all weapons and ammunition long before anyone even knows about it.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

[murda-c]

But what if i'm doing legal killing?

I do that all the time.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Matej

Cars are made to transport people.

Guns are made to shoot people.

Yes there are other uses for them, but those are their main purpose.

Get it?

Correct. But you're making an unfair ussumption towards people. Just becuase you own a gun, doesn't mean you are going to kill someone. Just like modding your car doesn't mean you street race.

Get it?

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by imotion s14

But continue to revel in your own ignorance you stupid fuck.

Whoa...Cool down tiger! Lets keep this conversation healthy huh.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

You cannot compare the founding fathers to the people who are currently in charge.

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Correct. But you're making an unfair ussumption towards people. Just becuase you own a gun, doesn't mean you are going to kill someone. Just like modding your car doesn't mean you street race.

Get it?

Yes, but in the end the fatality rate resulting from modding your car or even illegal street racing is nowhere near that of guns.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Matej

You cannot compare the founding fathers to the people who are currently in charge.

So we are supposed to turn our backs and forget about the founding principles that made this the best nation in history because times change?

Originally Posted by Matej

Yes, but in the end the fatality rate resulting from illegal street racing is nowhere near that of guns.

But thats not what i'm arguing about. My argument is that you stated guns kill no matter what. This just isn't true!

[ESmorz]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

But thats not what i'm arguing about. My argument is that you stated guns kill no matter what. This just isn't true!

No, that's what you are saying. He simply stated the fact that guns were invented and are still produced to this day to end lives. Whether it be human or animal... alien.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

So we are supposed to turn our backs and forget about the founding principles that made this the best nation in history because times change?

But thats not what i'm arguing about. My argument is that you stated guns kill no matter what. This just isn't true!

No we're not supposed to turn our backs, but it seems that the government has been turning their backs to us. The founding fathers truly and honestly did what was in the best intentions for the people, not only for the government.

And my argument against guns is that they do kill. Of course not all of them, but a gun is more likely to be used to kill intentionally or accidentally than a Blitz Nur Spec.

By the way I'm not calling for guns to be completely outlawed, although they could be for all I care. People own guns in other countries and it doesn't seem to be a problem there. I don't understand why Americans love guns so much more than people elsewhere do. Perhaps because it's just way too easy to own a gun in America, and pretty much any idiot or someone with bad intentions can get a gun. Guns don't have to be outlawed, but I think it should definitely be a lot more difficult to obtain them.

What's ironic is that it's more difficult to run a Blitz Nur Spec on your car legally than it is to own a gun.

[spngr311]

What's messed up is that there are restrictions on both.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Matej

What's ironic is that it's more difficult to run a Blitz Nur Spec on your car legally than it is to own a gun.

It depends where you are.

When I lived in Nevada, it took longer to install the exhaust system than to purchase a gun.

[89dc240]

Getting a gun LEGALLY is not that easy. There are probably 75 violations on the list of things barring you from gun ownership in Pennsylvania. There is a federal background check at every gunshow, and gun store firearms purchase.
All handguns here, must be transferred in a gun store with a background check. Straw purchasers can be nailed down because PA is violating our rights by keeping handgun sale records. Though it obviously has a good effect for this type of criminal(the clean guy who buys guns for dirty guys) and they come up with new shit everyday. Like one gun a month laws or reporting stolen gun laws,,, and its all just one more step towards a greater goaL of confiscation. Every infringement, if you will.

Now, PA has one of the most respectable concealed carry permitting systems in the nation, whereas, if you can buy a firearm legally, you cannot be denied a carry permit. I can't see that lasting much longer though so anyone in PA or who gets permits for other states, get it while its hot.

I gotta take the browns to the superbowl.

[Jordn]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

How, exactly, am I supposed to treat a right, one we were given on December 15, 1791, as a privilege? It may not be a "healthy viewpoint" in your eyes, but it's a right given to us by our Founders. If it was simply a privilege to own a firearm, it wouldn't be in our Bill of Rights, now would it?

A little outdated then isn't it? Times have moved on a hell of a lot since then. People were different back then, attitudes were different and guns were different.

[98s14inaz]

Originally Posted by Matej

Just try to stand up to the government with guns.

There will be two possible outcomes:
A. You get killed, which is the more likely one.
B. You go to prison, and die in there.

If it ever comes down to this big showdown of government vs. the people that everyone is arming themselves for, you can be sure that the government will outlaw and attempt to confiscate all weapons and ammunition long before anyone even knows about it.

It's about numbers. The general public out numbers the gov't and officials. They (whoever, powers that be) can't kill/control us all. Look how silly Arabs are making the most powerful military in the world look. All of our superior tech and we still can't get them in their caves, we still get killed with roadside bombs, we still get sniped at by 45 year old soviet rifles, we still get shot with rpg's. It'll never end.

I own a gun, NOT because I hope to use it to kill another human, but because some day I will have to defend myself/family/you against an enemy...foreign or domestic. Just in case.

[Grendel]

Originally Posted by Matej

Just try to stand up to the government with guns.

There will be two possible outcomes:
A. You get killed, which is the more likely one.
B. You go to prison, and die in there.

If it ever comes down to this big showdown of government vs. the people that everyone is arming themselves for, you can be sure that the government will outlaw and attempt to confiscate all weapons and ammunition long before anyone even knows about it.

Thats the truth... and it wouldn't even be the army that would kill them, it would be one hellfire dropped through their window from a UAV they never saw.


As long as retards like this guy have weapons people will keep trying to ban them:
Tragic Mistake in Halloween Shooting?

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by Jordn

A little outdated then isn't it? Times have moved on a hell of a lot since then. People were different back then, attitudes were different and guns were different.

Okay, you're a British brick wall.

Moving on.

Gun deaths are a societal problem, not a gun problem. Guns will never be the root problem, people always will be. Until you can teach people to be respectful of each other, gun deaths in the United States and around the world will continue.

No offense to any naive liberals, but people are violent. If you want to end murder and killing, make the human race extinct. Otherwise, people will find newer and more horrific ways to kill people.

Let me keep my guns to protect myself. You have no right to remove my protective devices, and, frankly, if you do I will arm myself with weapons acquired through illegal means because my freedom matters more than your naivete.

[Jordn]

To a point your right, we have knife-crime here in the UK, because gun-crime is relatively low.

However making guns [legal or not] so abundant and embedded in society doesn't HELP the fact that yes, humans will kill and murder.

Its a bit like saying WMDs don't kill people, people kill people. So why crack down on WMDs? Why shouldn't it be your right to keep your own WMDs? Just incase your own blinding paranoia turns out to be correct and the CIA/Feds/Aliens are really gonna getcha one day. Maybe Sadam just had that shit as a protective device too?

[mRclARK1]

Originally Posted by ESmorz

No, that's what you are saying. He simply stated the fact that guns were invented and are still produced to this day to end lives. Whether it be human or animal... alien.

Guns are not as simple as people in this thread are believing them to be. Yes, all guns can be used to kill. The purpose for which the gun is intended however depends on the context under which the gun is used. For example, a hunter out with a hunting rifle is intent upon killing an animal. As long as it is done legally, the guns primary purpose is to kill and generally society accepts this (PETA fucktards aside... Don't get me wrong I'm not for animal cruelty but they're just insane). It was even necessary to survival in history. (and still is some places today)

That makes the guns a TOOL. Not a weapon. Anything can be used as a weapon however, that's what a lot of gun control fans forget. I can easily kill you with a crowbar, a sledge hammer, bare hands etc. A gun may make it easier, but in the end if someone WANTS to kill someone... They will, or they'll be killed or incapacitated themselves by their target (kill or be killed). But remember, the KILLER who is the illegal aggressor (one without just cause) won't care if they use an illegal tool, such as a gun, to commit a murder. Saying they would care is like saying someone who is attempting to evade the police in a getaway car would obey the traffic laws and stop for the red light.

Now for instance when a police officer draws their gun, the intended purpose is not to kill, it's the THREAT of force. The gun is intended to make a threat (which can be backed up if absolutely necessary) not to kill the suspect. Hence "Stop or I'll shoot" etc... It's the threat that the gun implies that is being counted on, and the threat is not an idle one.

Really the only place in which a gun is justly used an intended as strictly a thing to kill is in a military engagement or tactical police situations. A harsh cold truth of the world is... Sometimes it's just necessary to kill. It should be the last resort, but sometimes people push things that far.

[EDacIouSX]

Originally Posted by ESmorz

The only thing red states were good for was slaves and presidents who like dome.

Can't forget a guy called Martin Luther King Junior. He was a sob red state bastard too. That jerk, fighting for black rights. Another god damn republican.

[KA24DESOneThree]

The Republicans were fighting for black rights, the Democrats were attempting to block them.

He wasn't that great a guy, MLK Jr. We rally behind him because he fought for equal rights, but had questionable ethics.

Blinding paranoia? There he goes with his media-influenced bias again.

[98s14inaz]

Originally Posted by Jordn

To a point your right, we have knife-crime here in the UK, because gun-crime is relatively low.

However making guns [legal or not] so abundant and embedded in society doesn't HELP the fact that yes, humans will kill and murder.

Its a bit like saying WMDs don't kill people, people kill people. So why crack down on WMDs? Why shouldn't it be your right to keep your own WMDs? Just incase your own blinding paranoia turns out to be correct and the CIA/Feds/Aliens are really gonna getcha one day. Maybe Sadam just had that shit as a protective device too?

WMD's. Ok, I'll roll with that argument. We don't want WMD's banned. We only want certain people and countries to NOT have them. The major players in the game have them so the others won't be stupid enough to try to use them on us. Certain people should not have guns. Do not try to take mine away because some idiot has no respect for law abiding citizens.

[murda-c]

Originally Posted by 98s14inaz

WMD's. Ok, I'll roll with that argument. We don't want WMD's banned. We only want certain people and countries to NOT have them. The major players in the game have them so the others won't be stupid enough to try to use them on us.

So we take guns away from the unstable populace and let the cops and military have them?

lol jk my gun is fun i don't wanna lose it.

[98s14inaz]

Originally Posted by murda-c

So we take guns away from the unstable populace and let the cops and military have them?

No just the idiots lol You should take a test or get some sort of permit.

[murda-c]

Originally Posted by 98s14inaz

No just the idiots lol You should take a test or get some sort of permit.

Nope, you can't take the guns away because that's a right.

sorry idiots have to get guns too.

[supportTHEezln]

Originally Posted by murda-c

Nope, you can't take the guns away because that's a right.

sorry idiots have to get guns too.

Maybe we'll get lucky and they just use them on each other.

[cdlong]

Originally Posted by Grendel

As long as retards like this guy have weapons people will keep trying to ban them:
Tragic Mistake in Halloween Shooting?

the guy is an ex con, and apparently a nut job. him having a gun was probably illegal, and owning that gun is probably illegal (i'm not sure of all the specifics of gun laws in SC).

one last time... laws don't keep guns out of the hands of law breakers.

[SexPanda]

Originally Posted by Matej

I dont get it...

[aa87]

Originally Posted by Grendel

Thats the truth... and it wouldn't even be the army that would kill them, it would be one hellfire dropped through their window from a UAV they never saw.


As long as retards like this guy have weapons people will keep trying to ban them:
Tragic Mistake in Halloween Shooting?

Who honestly needs assault rifles?!? Anybody else read the article!?? Seriously.