The Future Automotive Thread

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I'll pass on the China Mobile.

Chinese money. Ends there. Still designed and built in Sweden.

And if Chinese money is a problem you better start passing on damn near everything.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Yeah, it’s not a home run. It’s not a car I NEED. It’s close and I think it’s faults can be fixed.

This is all that’s on my mind right now though.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks nice Mel, I get the practicallity factor and I do love nice Wagons.

Lets get a few things straight here. The FRS/BRZ does not need mad HP what it needs is mad TQ. The engine is a joke. Its a 2 liter with 156lbs of TQ
While my FiST is a 1.6 liter pumping out 205 ft lbs of TQ both cars are pretty much dead even wieght wise. I have the same HP and 50 ft lbs more tq.
The FRS is anemic because of that low tq issue .
While my FiST with even a mild Flash tune is a little monster . Oh and not many cars can match it in the corners without spending at least double.
Its is truely a uniquely amazing FWD car in the handling department.

Even my FiST engine in the FRS would make the car a more fun.
Now granted since my FiST is a turbo engine i am going hybrid or BT as I am shooting for a target of 300whp.

All said and done I will have less than 30k in the car overall amd will just eat a lot of cars 2-3 times its price.

Now as fars a car sales and Sports car sales go one should not sight the Mustang as its sales numbers are not that big. Ford treats it as a specialty halo sporty vehicle at this point and is commited to making it even at low numbers. ( oh and god forbid they are talking about making a 4 door version)

They actually sold more Of the Focus though overall numbers wise than they did Mustang. In fact even Fiestas averaged 50-60k per year. Not great but not terrible .
Truth be told Ford was not losing money on the car lines as they were not making as much as evisioned by axing them and selling SUV and Trucks which the numbers on are phenomenal already sales wise.

As far as Sports cars go Mazda does have a special thing going with the Miata I have a friend Mia who jjust sold her 2011 Mazda 3 and grabbed a slightly used 2018 Hardtop Miata.

Though most young people are not even looking at cars. They don’t care about cars period, they are happy to jump into an Uber or Lyft and call it a day.
Hell even a young newb in this thread expressed that thought a few posts up.

While one could argue for a better engine in the FRS it may be a case of a little too late. Had they done that in the beginning it would have been more of a hit.

The future does not bode well for cars as we know them period. The Eco enerngy Nazi’s want to see car ownership go away ( John Zimmer president of Lyft is one) . They have a utopian communistic view that we will all ride around in autonomous EV’s . And the World will be a less congested cleaner place. Lol at their Hypocritical attempt at financial profit of it.

Yes they are gunning for our cars and they are gunning for ICE at our expesne and their profit.

[ronmcdon]

I also didnt see how a lot of the ford cars were liabilities. They werent selling terribly. I think its shortsighted of the ford ceo to make such drastic measures. the sensible thing
to consider would be what gm did and ax the models that werent selling.

I like the fist and miata a lot. was looking a both and now have some buyers remorse for not getting one, esp when there were great incentives for the fist

[VROOOM]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Looks nice Mel, I get the practicallity factor and I do love nice Wagons.

Lets get a few things straight here. The FRS/BRZ does not need mad HP what it needs is mad TQ. The engine is a joke. Its a 2 liter with 156lbs of TQ
While my FiST is a 1.6 liter pumping out 205 ft lbs of TQ both cars are pretty much dead even wieght wise. I have the same HP and 50 ft lbs more tq.
The FRS is anemic because of that low tq issue .
While my FiST with even a mild Flash tune is a little monster . Oh and not many cars can match it in the corners without spending at least double.
Its is truely a uniquely amazing FWD car in the handling department.

Even my FiST engine in the FRS would make the car a more fun.
Now granted since my FiST is a turbo engine i am going hybrid or BT as I am shooting for a target of 300whp.

All said and done I will have less than 30k in the car overall amd will just eat a lot of cars 2-3 times its price.

I love my FiST. you get so much fun for so little money.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Chinese money. Ends there. Still designed and built in Sweden.



And if Chinese money is a problem you better start passing on damn near everything.

Okay, cuck mobile...


Volvo lost its way nearly 30 years ago.

No way would I pay German money for Korean Luxury with Italian reliability and GM styling.

[kanyedian]

Originally Posted by simmode1

^^^Manual Supra would sooo be tits. I'm not in love with the idea of $55k for 335hp when Mustangs, Camaros and Corvettes are a thing, but there's a lot of tuning potential to be tapped from that ugly ass engine bay.

This right here.. Although I love the C6 way more than the C7. The Camaro has some cool track-focused versions but something about the proportions of them are still wrong. The 2015+ Stang has the style absolutely nailed. And I've seen some GT350s used in the 40s that are simply amazing. The way they rev is so exciting.

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Yeah, it’s not a home run. It’s not a car I NEED. It’s close and I think it’s faults can be fixed.

This is all that’s on my mind right now though.

James May would approve!
Aha I dig wagons as well. Even that crazy Acura TSX wagon could be made cool. And Buick has one too that doesn't look so terrible.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Lets get a few things straight here. The FRS/BRZ does not need mad HP what it needs is mad TQ. The engine is a joke. Its a 2 liter with 156lbs of TQ

My dad bought one in '13 and WOW I have never driven something so PLANTED in the corners even with the small, factory tyres that were on it. But the rev range had a huge lul in the middle and that totally killed the fun factor. It was a shame, but as a fun manual commuter it worked.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Though most young people are not even looking at cars. They don’t care about cars period, they are happy to jump into an Uber or Lyft and call it a day.
Hell even a young newb in this thread expressed that thought a few posts up.

Originally Posted by VROOOM

I love my FiST. you get so much fun for so little money.

FiST Took me a few paragraphs to understand it was Fiesta ST aha. I like the three door hatch that is overseas. But I figure they don't see it selling much in the States

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Okay, cuck mobile...


Volvo lost its way nearly 30 years ago.

No way would I pay German money for Korean Luxury with Italian reliability and GM styling.

Even though you tend you be brash on here i generally think you know what you’re talking about. Your view is like the people that still think Hyundai and Kia are what they were in the 90’s. I don’t have the time to educate you on the state of Volvo.

EDIT: and those looking nothing alike other than they are wagons. lol.

[kanyedian]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Your view is like the people that still think Hyundai and Kia are what they were in the 90’s.

Man, that's true. I love how those cars are now at the dealership. the G70 is something to behold! Dig that they have a 2.0T manual version too. And the interior is the tits

[exitspeed]

Huh I found some time.

Yes, Volvo is owned by Geely (they just bought lotus too!) but they are still headquartered in Gothenburg. Yes the brand saw a drastic decline over the last few decades and even more so during the 11 years Ford owned them. Fords shit platforms and penny pinching hurt the brand more than anything.

Since Geely bought them and infused them with piles of cash they have done a total 180. Brand new scalable platforms developed in house. Starting with the XC90 they have released vehicles that have been showered with awards and critical praise. The design language is far more Swedish than it’s been in a long long time, clean, simple and classic. The interiors are WORLDS better than what the Germans are putting out. I test drive so many cars before the XC40 (and when I was looking at the XC90) and the Germans and Domestics look and feel dated and stuck in their old ways. Held back by bean counters. I’ve read literally countless comparison articles and tests drives. The whole industry agrees with me. It’s not even debatable at this point.

Volvo has been totally revived. I could care less about where the money came from do do so. I’m a big proponent of the brand now.

Also, look at these fucking seats. Bruh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Corbic]

Go back and look at my praising for Hyundai/Kia. They did to Japan what Japan did to Detroit. I have a very positive opinion of them and love what they are doing.

My statement about Luxury is not that the Koreans are building crappy cars, but that they are building extremely nice cars without the cache of a German or Lexus vehicle.

I would not even give Volvo a second thought. Zero dealership presense and as I stated, they have a European price tag without all the "prestige", styling and "soul".

That doesn't even get into the whole politics of the company, you know, "first sports Coupe designed by women for women" and all that crap.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Yes the brand saw a drastic decline over the last few decades and even more so during the 11 years Ford owned them. Fords shit platforms and penny pinching hurt the brand more than anything.

People cry about Ford and GM's management of various European brands (Volvo, Saab, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Landrover, Opal, Vauxhall) but the reality is, these companies fell under American ownership because they sucked big balls.

The Swedes had been barely clinging on, Jaguar was hours away from death and was peddling 20 year old designs, etc.

Ford and GM bought these guys time. In some cases that time paid off. Tata aquired Jaguar, Aston and Rover and has done a fabulous job. Geely scored Volvo and their still around. Saab... well it was a good run. They spend nearly 3 years looking for a Chinese buyer. I belive the remnants are owned by NVS, a Chinese investment group located in Sweden.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

My statement about Luxury is not that the Koreans are building crappy cars, but that they are building extremely nice cars without the cache of a German or Lexus vehicle.

I would not even give Volvo a second thought. Zero dealership presense and as I stated, they have a European price tag without all the "prestige", styling and "soul".

You're obviously entitled to have an incorrect opinion. And I'll take elegant design and lower price tags in exchange for German "prestige".

I'll give you the dealer presense. There's only 2 in WI. I had to go to Chicago to buy my XC40 because the shit dealer by me wouldn't sell me a car here. I literally walked in a said I want to buy this car right this min and all I got was blah blah blah, waiting lists, blah blah. I called down to the Chicago dealer and she's like "yeah come and get it". Boom done. First one in WI. Dealers here didn't even have their demos.

Originally Posted by Corbic

That doesn't even get into the whole politics of the company, you know, "first sports Coupe designed by women for women" and all that crap.

That car is a damn miracle considering the horrible cars Ford was producing on that platform. The later version of the C30 R Design is a damn goodlooking car.

Originally Posted by Corbic

People cry about Ford and GM's management of various European brands (Volvo, Saab, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Landrover, Opal, Vauxhall) but the reality is, these companies fell under American ownership because they sucked big balls.

The Swedes had been barely clinging on, Jaguar was hours away from death and was peddling 20 year old designs, etc.

Ford and GM bought these guys time. In some cases that time paid off. Tata aquired Jaguar, Aston and Rover and has done a fabulous job. Geely scored Volvo and their still around. Saab... well it was a good run. They spend nearly 3 years looking for a Chinese buyer. I belive the remnants are owned by NVS, a Chinese investment group located in Sweden.

But facts are facts. Ford turned the brand into trash. Chinese investment has risen them from the ashes. They've broken their sales records 5 years in a row now.

[kanyedian]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

The interiors are WORLDS better than what the Germans are putting out. I test drive so many cars before the XC40 (and when I was looking at the XC90) and the Germans and Domestics look and feel dated and stuck in their old ways.

I love the XC40. Very cute. Do you have the different color roof? I went to look at them at the dealer and as Corbic stated.. there was no one around and all the cars were locked so.. skrrted off home

Originally Posted by Corbic

I would not even give Volvo a second thought. Zero dealership presence and as I stated, they have a European price tag without all the "prestige", styling and "soul".

:yeahthat:

Originally Posted by exitspeed

That car is a damn miracle considering the horrible cars Ford was producing on that platform. The later version of the C30 R Design is a damn goodlooking car.

I thought the C30 was decent looking when it came out at the time. Didn't know it was FUBU for wamens doe

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

But facts are facts. Ford turned the brand into trash. Chinese investment has risen them from the ashes. They've broken their sales records 5 years in a row now.

That's my point. Facts are Facts. Ford didn't RUIN Volvo, they ruined themselves and Ford bailed them out. Then Ford punted to rebuild its own brand now the Chinese bailed them out.

If you go back, GM and Ford aquiring these other brands hurt GM and Ford, not the brands that otherwise would have closed shop. That's time, money and marketing GM/Ford could have used on themselves.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by kanyedian

Do you have the different color roof?

Yeah R Design with every single option and accessory available (at the time). It was one of the first 3000 too so it has the Swedish flag on the fender.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Corbic

That's my point. Facts are Facts. Ford didn't RUIN Volvo, they ruined themselves and Ford bailed them out. Then Ford punted to rebuild its own brand now the Chinese bailed them out.

If you go back, GM and Ford aquiring these other brands hurt GM and Ford, not the brands that otherwise would have closed shop. That's time, money and marketing GM/Ford could have used on themselves.

Yes, ultimtely it's on Volvo. But they bought them hoping to score a unique brand, then kept them on life support which. They didn't give them the proper backing to turn the brand around. This happens all the time in business. Geely was able to do what Ford was not capable of. And that is on Volvo as well. They needed a serious investor. Ford sucked.

[kanyedian]

China has become the largest automotive market in the world as well. That happened last year. And since we're on the subject, that is where most of the Buicks in the world are sold as well. They like them there aha. While the US hasn't gotten over the "old man car" idea of them that's lasted for decades. Lincoln has a similar problem although I've been liking the MKZ and the new Continental is pretty cool looking. The Navigator and Aviator as well.

[Corbic]

[kanyedian]

The Bimmer gets more hp too. And the option of a manual. I'll just wait til some YouTuber gets juan and starts modding it.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by kanyedian

The Bimmer gets more hp too. And the option of a manual. I'll just wait til some YouTuber gets juan and starts modding it.

BMW also gets the Porsche designed DCT, Toyota is getting the same A8 found in a Dodge Charger. The manual is a MT82, which is a meh tranny.

[ronmcdon]

speaking of the supra I thought this was a fun article. the comments were hard to disagree with noting how eerie it was that somehow fitting in a straight 6 was a priority. it sounds more like an excuse and not so much a good reason.

https://jalopnik.com/why-the-2020-to...why-1834540861

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

speaking of the supra I thought this was a fun article. the comments were hard to disagree with noting how eerie it was that somehow fitting in a straight 6 was a priority. it sounds more like an excuse and not so much a good reason.

https://jalopnik.com/why-the-2020-to...why-1834540861

Yeah I wonder, with as long as we waited, would it have been worth it to wait another 2-3 years for a entirely in house developed Supra. What’s another 3 years?

But I agree with the author, they could have built their own inline 6, offered and manual, made it 2500lbs and 500hp and people would have still complained.

Like I’ve said, I’m willing to overlook most of its flaws. The lack of a manual is the only one I can’t.

[Stein180sx]

Why does no one talk about that Toyota did not make the JZ, they may have had a hand in it. The design and work was all Yamaha from my understanding. So, why not go back there? They did it for the LFA. Maybe I am just a RB but hurt, and hate that Toyota gets the credit for the JZ. I will make this clear now, that I do not hate the JZ motor as a whole.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Yeah I wonder, with as long as we waited, would it have been worth it to wait another 2-3 years for a entirely in house developed Supra. What’s another 3 years?



But I agree with the author, they could have built their own inline 6, offered and manual, made it 2500lbs and 500hp and people would have still complained.



Like I’ve said, I’m willing to overlook most of its flaws. The lack of a manual is the only one I can’t.

All they had to do was stretch the nose of the FRS, reskin it and drop in a turbo V6 or a V8 from Lexus.


It's not rocket science. Toyota is likely just so engrained in a legacy based beuracracy, such innovation and risk is impossible.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Stein180sx

Why does no one talk about that Toyota did not make the JZ, they may have had a hand in it. The design and work was all Yamaha from my understanding. So, why not go back there? They did it for the LFA. Maybe I am just a RB but hurt, and hate that Toyota gets the credit for the JZ. I will make this clear now, that I do not hate the JZ motor as a whole.

Huh?

Yamaha was hired to do development work on the 1JZ. Toyota did the 2JZ program in house.

Either way, they BUILT it and INSTALLED it into everything for nearly 15 years.

It gets more love then the RB because two reasons.

1. It is a better designed engine. Period.
2. It's more common (in both Japan and USA).

[kanyedian]

RB sounds better! But that makes sense that 'Yota could have just used one of their Lexus engines. Manufactures sure are sharing a lot of tech/development these days. Some of these eight and nine-speed transmissions are in dozens of models across makes

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by Corbic

All they had to do was stretch the nose of the FRS, reskin it and drop in a turbo V6 or a V8 from Lexus.

There wouldn't have been anything exciting about a re-badged RC-F

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by spooled240

There wouldn't have been anything exciting about a re-badged RC-F

How is there anything exciting about a rebadeged Z4?

So, RC-F is not on a FRS chasis and it weights 4,000lbs... That's fatter then Mustangs and Camaro. That is as fat as a Challenger.

The RC-F's "Lexus-Ness" also numbs out all the fun and sportiness on the specs.

If your hung up on an I6, get over it. Everyone got over the Rb26 once they saw what you could do with a VR38DETT. All the 5.Bros got over it when they saw what a Ecoboost can do in the Raptor.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by kanyedian

RB sounds better! But that makes sense that 'Yota could have just used one of their Lexus engines. Manufactures sure are sharing a lot of tech/development these days. Some of these eight and nine-speed transmissions are in dozens of models across makes

That's because manufacturers are just using transmission designers with off the shelf solutions rather then trying to come up with their own designs.

Tremec
Borg Warner
Getreg
Asian
ZF Friedrichshafen

[spooled240]

Originally Posted by Corbic

How is there anything exciting about a rebadeged Z4?

So, RC-F is not on a FRS chasis and it weights 4,000lbs... That's fatter then Mustangs and Camaro. That is as fat as a Challenger.

The RC-F's "Lexus-Ness" also numbs out all the fun and sportiness on the specs.

If your hung up on an I6, get over it. Everyone got over the Rb26 once they saw what you could do with a VR38DETT. All the 5.Bros got over it when they saw what a Ecoboost can do in the Raptor.

I'd take a slower, heavier I6 than a v6 that sounds like Chewbacca gargling