Test Mule. Solid Sub frame Risers off ebay and they are legit.

[Black240Ct]

buying cheap knockoff parts kills the industry as well.

more people bought ebay'd greddy knock off parts, and greddy closed their Jersey warehouse.

just sayin, maybe a solid piece of aluminum is less likely to break then a knock off blow off valve.. but geez, where are your morals

[holemilk00]

Originally Posted by mrflip69

Orangetree..

Found here: GB: Orangetree Front Lower Control Arms s13/s14 - $425

That's from 07, so I'm not sure how long PSM's parts have been out. I think Ikea Formula was the first to make the front and rear control arms like that?

SPL used to sell rear control arms, not sure if they ever did fronts. Maybe they still do, but the rears were something like $800 so you know that didn't sell too well LOL..

Though I don't condone the knockoff companies, some competition is good. It forces innovation and lowers prices.

Here are the SPL FLCA


And here are the RLCA


If I'm not mistaken, they have been around for 3-4 years, and just recently were taken down from their site. I hope its because V.2's are coming out.

Originally Posted by godrifttoday

SO, WHAT! ITS A LOWER COST FOR SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT MOVE! SO HE SAVED CASH FOR THE SAME THING, AND ABOUT SUPPORTING COMPANIES! NO SUCH THING! THEIR IS BRAND LOYALTY, WHICH PEOPLE ONLY BUY THAT CERTAIN COMPAN. Social darwinism is a philosophy used in evolution to explain dynamics of human social and instituitonal “ survivor of the fitest” so if a business is not being inovative all the time then this is what happens, other companies copy the design called reverse engineering. so by business constantly being inovative then the people stealing the design will never be able to gain market share because their is something better... thats my point of view, i dont think i have ever heard anyone say " let me buy something from xxx business because they might go bankrupt" it just does not happen... only when they are bankrupt and are selling things for dirt cheap... by the way i recently purchased spl solid bushings, i did so beacuse of the reputaion of the business, even though i know their is others, similar, for a lower price, to some that matter to others it simply does not...

If any of these businesses were first at it here in the states, they could easily gotten a patent on it. That's called smart business.


There is this thing called the product business cycle and it goes as follows:

Innovators------>Early Adopters------->Early Majority------>Late Majority------>Laggards

Now along every step of that process companies that copy the products of the innovators can make small changes to the product, but they are still imitating the original innovator.

[godrifttoday]

Originally Posted by holemilk00

If any of these businesses were first at it here in the states, they could easily gotten a patent on it. That's called smart business.

patent cost money thats y in some industries just dont use them

Originally Posted by holemilk00

Now along every step of that process companies that copy the products of the innovators can make small changes to the product, but they are still imitating the original innovator.

imitating yes, i agree. but not the same, well in legal terms.. so its fine

[holemilk00]

What do you mean not in legal terms? If you make a wooden #2 pencil and I make a wooden #2 pencil, how much difference do you think there are between our two products? And in this case how much difference can there be in subframe risers? As for the patent thing, there are only two ways of product innovation that will keep you from going bankrupt. 1. Produce products and get some sort of protection from competition, ie patent, copyrights and so on. 2. Have your business designed to be so far ahead of the market that you are always the innovator and your competition is trying to catch up. Apple managed this for about 3 years with the iPhone. Out side of these two ways of being product innovators your business is an early adapter through laggard, which will mean you are copying someone that is in the other category.

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Way to buy another Ebay knockoff and screw over PSM who did all the research and development.

This is what I call the "Wal-Mart mentality".

lol at that. It's better to say. Way for the shop to fuck us over by charging $127 when're same product could have easily been sold for $85 or less.
It's not fucking rocket science!




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[Corbic]

Sorry dude, but dealing with China, commercially, they are know to cheap out on metals. Prone to fatigue, crack . FYI never use Chinese supplied Fasteners.

[Marcus]

I think the thing that really pisses me off is that you settled for the ebay brand not knowing the quality of the material. (over 40bucks at that)

what if the quality had been shit? you spent 80bones for 6061 Dogshit.

then you wouldve had to spend another 120 for legit parts.


just something to think about when considering ebay parts.

[holemilk00]

Can someone verify where PSM stuff is actually produced please? I know they develop it in house but I'm talking about where are the prototypes sent off to for production. I'm just curious, I love their stuff I just want to know for personal curiosity.

[nathanong87]

Originally Posted by holemilk00

Can someone verify where PSM stuff is actually produced please? I know they develop it in house but I'm talking about where are the prototypes sent off to for production. I'm just curious, I love their stuff I just want to know for personal curiosity.

if the prototype is made IN HOUSE then i'd assume they are made IN HOUSE. you make a jig for part, then u weld accordingly.

they have RUCA videos on youtube

if they are rebranded, they could be anodized in house.

[upsdude]

you guys complain about knockoff companies then turn around and try to lowball a seller for his parts-hypocrites.

[thefro526]

Those eBay subframe risers are cool, I'm sure they're 100% Functionally identical to the Powered By Max units.

I have the Powered By Max Risers, and I would buy them again over the eBay risers just because I'd be supporting a company that places a large emphasis on listening to the needs of their end user and revising their products accordingly, which is becoming more and more uncommon in this industry it seems.

But realistically, if you're worried about pinching pennies and such you probably shouldn't be building/modifying/racing/drifting cars.

[upsdude]

they're chunks of aluminum...seriously you guys go overboard with this shit sometimes

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Those eBay subframe risers are cool, I'm sure they're 100% Functionally identical to the Powered By Max units.

I have the Powered By Max Risers, and I would buy them again over the eBay risers just because I'd be supporting a company that places a large emphasis on listening to the needs of their end user and revising their products accordingly, which is becoming more and more uncommon in this industry it seems.

But realistically, if you're worried about pinching pennies and such you probably shouldn't be building/modifying/racing/drifting cars.

Truth.

That is all.

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Errr wrong. SPL designed the original solid subframe bushing in the US market and PSM designed the slip fit riser before anyone else. Maybe other people were doing custom subframe jobs before them but no one made a subframe-raising bushing before PSM.

You positive about that? Not trying to argue or anything
maybe you know something I don't
my guess would be Nams or Naguisa designed the originals
I will agree that SPL was probably the first US based company to offer them

Originally Posted by Corbic

I'm sure they care a lot about the lost sales.

hmmm... maybe, maybe not
have you ever designed and developed a product?
I have and would be pissed if someone went and copied it

Originally Posted by holemilk00

Here are the SPL FLCA


And here are the RLCA


If I'm not mistaken, they have been around for 3-4 years, and just recently were taken down from their site. I hope its because V.2's are coming out.

Those are Nagisa arms sold and warrantied in the US by SPL
I've noticed SPL actively R&Ding the stuff they sell in the last few years
maybe they're coming out with their own set of control arms now?

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by upsdude

they're chunks of aluminum...seriously you guys go overboard with this shit sometimes

exactly!!!lol





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[MADE]

Originally Posted by ayuaddict

These are just machined pieces of aluminum.

Many companies offer them.

Is one the original and the others knockoffs?

If so, the PBM pieces would be considered a knockoff as well.

When this company starts making suspension links that are the exact same material and design as PBM's then it would be fair to consider this an issue, until then, I think there is no moral problem here, and i think the OP presented valid information.

People seem to not realize E-bay doesn't equal junk all of the time. Alot of legit shops sell stuff on E-bay as well. Can you really knock off this product or catch can or similar item. And if you can whats the point in buying a Brand name one over a functional one that works? Now I'm sure out of the number of people who complained 25% will go out and buy the item to save a dollar.

[Slikk Logic]

those ebay parts look good enough to hold up..its not a complicated part to even make.block of aluminum and cut it out. they can't really fuck that up too much lol

[Max_PSi]

Originally Posted by Slikk Logic

those ebay parts look good enough to hold up..its not a complicated part to even make.block of aluminum and cut it out. they can't really fuck that up too much lol

I love this argument. Fine, when you fuck up your front end doing the "dorifto", don't bother with OEM hardened steel nuts and bolts. Just go to Home Depot and throw some stainless steel nuts and bolts in as a replacement. See how long it lasts.

Granted, a shop apparently "verified" the metal as the OP said. But still, arguing a parts simplicity to justify saving $40 seems pretty stupid.

Oh yea, fuck Walmart.

[Alex@GMS]

So I found out all the parts are made in Norcal. I asked the guys on ebay and the parts are made at Quality Metal Spinning in PaloAlto CA.

So they are 100% 6061 aluminum and are made in norcal.

So they are 100% good and no china shit

[soreballz]

... And they're 100% COPIED from another companies design. Functional or not, it's just not honest.
Somebody bought a set of PBM subframe risers, took them to a machine shop, had the copy them and produce several sets, and decided to resell them. If you're cool with that, then you suck.

[mrflip69]

^^ Milk, thanks for the SPL links. Yup, noticed they took them down with the new layout... could've sworn I saw front LCAs, and voila, there they are!

Rebranded Nagisa huh? Hope they've improved the design. Didn't seem like there was a huge market out there that could take advantage of that stuff, and figured they discontinued them.

[GnarKiller]

so your saying if i were to scetch up some risers just as an idea im sure they would look pretty simalar, yes? would i still be taking their design? would you rather they be square?? or what i i bought some alumiun took it to a buddy at a shop and said here make this fit this and it look like that, its not thier brand or ebay that shit is my brand any differences? i think not on the smaller stuff as this but others yes for the most part youd be able to tell. im sure there very few manufacturers of coilovers but yet sooo many brands, how so? is each one one off, made by hand i think not. to each his own people its not your car, nor is it mine. what if he got these so he could afford motons??? you dont know...

[slideways2004]

Originally Posted by RurouniMidnight

i only use PSM risers in my subframe...but really local shops that put in the effort.

YaY for PBM and subframe parties!!

BUY PBM! All the cool kids are doing it

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by thefro526

But realistically, if you're worried about pinching pennies and such you probably shouldn't be building/modifying/racing/drifting cars.

quoted for truth.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Alex@GMS

So I found out all the parts are made in Norcal. I asked the guys on ebay and the parts are made at Quality Metal Spinning in PaloAlto CA.

So they are 100% 6061 aluminum and are made in norcal.

So they are 100% good and no china shit

Are you the one selling these?

[smelly240]

So maybe I'm the only one that thinks this... but,

This started out sounding like a for sale thread. Like Hey - everyone look - I bought ebay risers that "somebody" in cali where I live makes and they're really good and even though i havent installed them yet theyre EXACTLY the same as PSM ones theyre super awesome! You should buy them too because its still local but its cheaper and I need monies to buy pizzas and cheeseburgers.

Those Nagisa arms are nothing like PSM btw. Because its made out of tubing doesnt mean its the same.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by smelly240

So maybe I'm the only one that thinks this... but,

This started out sounding like a for sale thread. Like Hey - everyone look - I bought ebay risers that "somebody" in cali where I live makes and they're really good and even though i havent installed them yet theyre EXACTLY the same as PSM ones theyre super awesome! You should buy them too because its still local but its cheaper and I need monies to buy pizzas and cheeseburgers.

Those Nagisa arms are nothing like PSM btw. Because its made out of tubing doesnt mean its the same.

Look above, I'm in with you on that.

[slideways2004]

the orangetree control arms are no where near the quality and strength of the spl arms.

Also, the pbm control arms are better because they move the tension rod mounting point. When you have knuckles, the front wheels dig into the tension rod because of the crazy angle. You can notch your frame, but you can't really notch your tension. *You could however use a s14 ruca as a tension rod for clearance*

If all the people arguing FOR knock parts actually drove their car on the track, they would know why they should buy quality parts.

[Alex@GMS]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Are you the one selling these?

I sent them a message on ebay since there is so much drama about them and wanted to see whats going on and where they are made. The point of getting them was to see the quality. So im finding out since there is so much drama.

[Alex@GMS]

Originally Posted by smelly240

So maybe I'm the only one that thinks this... but,

This started out sounding like a for sale thread. Like Hey - everyone look - I bought ebay risers that "somebody" in cali where I live makes and they're really good and even though i havent installed them yet theyre EXACTLY the same as PSM ones theyre super awesome! You should buy them too because its still local but its cheaper and I need monies to buy pizzas and cheeseburgers.

Those Nagisa arms are nothing like PSM btw. Because its made out of tubing doesnt mean its the same.

dude. zilvia is so much drama. People are asking questions and i wanted to know also. So a message to them on ebay and the address they came from kinda sorted some stuff out. As you can see i have not had time to even try them out and put them in yet. When i do i will let you know the outcome. Ill take some pictures.