This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[Black R]

^ thanks guys, I get it now.

I'm torn on installing these - if I have to go back and get new longer inner tie rods, I'll be a bit disappointed.

[Razi]

Originally Posted by epik1

Hey guys, I've seen the post on the very first page with the lengths of different oem tie rod lengths.

I know it's been covered before, but I don't want to search through 240 pages lol.

S13:
-S14 FLCA
-Stock S13 knuckle
- currently had Tein inner/outer, but outer broke on one side, looking to revise setup
-adjustable tension rods

What would be the optimal inner/outer tie rod to run? Looking more towards staying with OEM/OEM equivalent parts that are easily accessible at Parts Source/Autozone (for USA) so that I can stock up haha.

Thanks!

Isn't the Tein tierod setup essentially S14 parts?

[stuckonfresh]

.
I believe they are very similar to OEM, maybe a bit thicker/stronger with longer threads to allow for the slip on angle spacers on rackside.

On a different note, is anyone on here using the GKTech strut tops? I know these don't fit Tein, but I want to try to get these to work with Tein type flex.

Everything fits and lines up great, except the Allen key bolts used to adjust camber- the "tracks"/ slots are a little wide to matchup with the threaded holes in the spherical bearing plate of the coil over (few mm).

Just wondering what coilovers people have successfully used these with and if maybe by some chance that spherical bearing plate is swappable with Tein's.



.

[derass]

Maybe you could turn the top-hat 90deg then drill and tap new holes? Does the outer diameter of the spherical bearing fit tight in the opening of the GKTech mount?

[stuckonfresh]

.

That's a great idea. I remember trying this, but unfortunately, it wouldn't work for both sides because the plate doesn't have enough material on the one side:



(Had to take a pic of a camera pic)

Other than that, yes the center portion seats in and fits tight against the strut top.

[Black R]

Originally Posted by stuckonfresh

.
I believe they are very similar to OEM, maybe a bit thicker/stronger with longer threads to allow for the slip on angle spacers on rackside.

On a different note, is anyone on here using the GKTech strut tops? I know these don't fit Tein, but I want to try to get these to work with Tein type flex.

Everything fits and lines up great, except the Allen key bolts used to adjust camber- the "tracks"/ slots are a little wide to matchup with the threaded holes in the spherical bearing plate of the coil over (few mm).

Just wondering what coilovers people have successfully used these with and if maybe by some chance that spherical bearing plate is swappable with Tein's.



.

Are these the budget offset strut tops?

[stuckonfresh]

Originally Posted by Black R

Are these the budget offset strut tops?

Yes they are.

.

[Black R]

I'll be interested to see how they end up working out for you.

I'm looking for more clearance between the tire and coilovers up top + caster there as opposed to at the tension rod, and this could help me.

I'm wondering what all has to be cut vs the non-budget ones.

[stuckonfresh]

.
If I decide to use these I would definitely leave some feedback in this thread; still debating at the moment.

Originally Posted by Black R

I'm wondering what all has to be cut vs the non-budget ones.

These can be installed, provided the camber slots work for coilovers, and used without cutting anything. The only possible "cutting" would be if the adjusted setting makes the strut top center (where damper adjusts) fall outside of the mounting "circle".

Even then, all one would need to do really is mark where this is hitting and just hole saw out that point to allow the strut top center to come through (and possibly use flush-head camber adjustment bolts to sit flush against the top surface of the strut top; these came with some.)

When fitting these, only really needed two flush-head bolts per side because the other two camber adjustment bolts fell within the open circle of the strut top mounting area on the chassis (measured c2c distances because couldn't thread into the plate as mentioned)

The non-budget are a little taller to allow room between the top of the strut top center and the sheet metal around the strut top- so no cutting, just sits below the surface of the sheet metal. Coil over height will need to be adjusted (if desired) to compensate for the added height that the non-budget tops present.

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[ka-titties]

Originally Posted by stuckonfresh

.
If I decide to use these I would definitely leave some feedback in this thread; still debating at the moment.



These can be installed, provided the camber slots work for coilovers, and used without cutting anything. The only possible "cutting" would be if the adjusted setting makes the strut top center (where damper adjusts) fall outside of the mounting "circle".

Even then, all one would need to do really is mark where this is hitting and just hole saw out that point to allow the strut top center to come through (and possibly use flush-head camber adjustment bolts to sit flush against the top surface of the strut top; these came with some.)

When fitting these, only really needed two flush-head bolts per side because the other two camber adjustment bolts fell within the open circle of the strut top mounting area on the chassis (measured c2c distances because couldn't thread into the plate as mentioned)

The non-budget are a little taller to allow room between the top of the strut top center and the sheet metal around the strut top- so no cutting, just sits below the surface of the sheet metal. Coil over height will need to be adjusted (if desired) to compensate for the added height that the non-budget tops present.

.

dude, you've got it all figured out.

[KaYren]

In for info and updates I like where this thread is going

[Black R]

These pics are courtesy of Jason Merritt:






That's about where I want my coilover upper mounts to be.

[ka-titties]

going for ultra camber?! i'm not sure what the purpose of going inboard with the strut top would be.

[DJPimpFlex]

Originally Posted by ka-titties

going for ultra camber?! i'm not sure what the purpose of going inboard with the strut top would be.

Or wheel clearance to the strut for ultra wide wheels in the front. Either way we're not going for performance here.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by DJPimpFlex

Or wheel clearance to the strut for ultra wide wheels in the front. Either way we're not going for performance here.

Actually, altering the shock angle can have performance benefits in road racing applications.

Originally Posted by True Berserk

It's a balance between KPI, Steering Scrub Radius, and Roll Center. Reducing the inclination angle would give me massive amounts of scrub. I knew that I wanted no more than 3/4 - 1". Moving the upper strut mounts outward would raise my roll center, and my tires are getting dangerously close to rubbing the coils. I had chosen to start at a 3" RC and adjust from there. Having a large amount of inclination angle works in conjunction with adding or removing caster in the way that it raises or lowers that corner of the vehicle while turning. Having large amounts of inclination angle and caster cause the body to lift over the inside tire and to lower over the outside tire. That in appearance looks like body roll, but to what degree, I will soon find out. The suspension sort of designed itself and this is all an experiment for me. The inclination seemed like the lesser of three evils and I can easily reduce it should the need arise (at the sacrifice of scrub and/or RC)

The only thing I am concerned about at the moment is how close my instant center is. It is almost within the vehicles profile. Being too close causes a really violent RC shift throughout the suspension cycle. I only have 3 or 4 inches of wheel travel so I am hoping it isn't much to be worried about.

[PoorMans180SX]

Anyone running the longer GKtech lower arms? Interested in seeing pictures of your strut angle specifically.

[ka-titties]

I have the longer version on my S14. what do you need to know?

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by ka-titties

I have the longer version on my S14. what do you need to know?

I'm sort of assuming you're using offset strut tops?

I'm curious about the ball joint angle in the control arm, and it's difference from the angle of the damper (when looking from the front).

[ka-titties]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

I'm sort of assuming you're using offset strut tops?

I'm curious about the ball joint angle in the control arm, and it's difference from the angle of the damper (when looking from the front).

No, not using offset strut tops... yet.

I just have the regular camber adjusting strut tops adjusted all the way out (+ camber). It netted me about -4 deg camber which I'm happy with. The LCA is at about 1.5" longer than a stock S14 LCA.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by ka-titties

No, not using offset strut tops... yet.



I just have the regular camber adjusting strut tops adjusted all the way out (+ camber). It netted me about -4 deg camber which I'm happy with. The LCA is at about 1.5" longer than a stock S14 LCA.

Ahhhh seems mild. I ask because I'm working on designing a set of one-off knuckles for myself and am curious about what I'll have to do as far as ball joint angle on the lca. It would be nice to just buy a set of off-the-shelf items.

[ka-titties]

For now, yes. I was going to go more aggressive and adjust the LCA out further and do offset strut tops, but I already have more angle than I can use. The GKTECH v3 knuckle and chromoly LCA combo is legit.

[LuckyX2]

So with my GKtech RLCAs installed with no spacers and my RUCAs as short as they go, I still have like 1-2* positive camber. That's with Megan RUCAs, what's the shortest RUCA available?

Extending the RLCA is not a good option for me because then the track width increases even more than it already is with my 335 Hoosiers and that's bad for autox. Too wide and I wont fit through the cone gates easily. So I want to shorten the RUCA.

[Mister.E]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

So with my GKtech RLCAs installed with no spacers and my RUCAs as short as they go, I still have like 1-2* positive camber. That's with Megan RUCAs, what's the shortest RUCA available?

Extending the RLCA is not a good option for me because then the track width increases even more than it already is with my 335 Hoosiers and that's bad for autox. Too wide and I wont fit through the cone gates easily. So I want to shorten the RUCA.

GKtech RUCAs would obviously work, but my SPL parts also have quite a bit of adjustability as well. Most likely the Megans are your problem.

[LuckyX2]

Thanks, I just went and ordered the GKTech ones. As usual, they look like the best and most cost effective option.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by LuckyX2

Thanks, I just went and ordered the GKTech ones. As usual, they look like the best and most cost effective option.

My SPL are right on the verge of being too short! Craziness.

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by ka-titties

For now, yes. I was going to go more aggressive and adjust the LCA out further and do offset strut tops, but I already have more angle than I can use. The GKTECH v3 knuckle and chromoly LCA combo is legit.

Yes indeed. Unfortunately I need more roll center correction than the knuckles provide. Currently at 90mm with the tdp kit, which is about perfect.

[stuckonfresh]

.
Still working on the strut top solution :/

For anyone interested, these are the current alignment settings on the extended GKTech extended FLCAs:

Front driverside / passenger side:
camber= -4.7 / -4.69
caster=5.82 / 6.53
toe= 0.13 /0.13

**this is with the FLCA rose joints centered in the subframe and tension rod attachment site and the rose joints slightly extended out, but under their given limits (<35mm) and the Tein strut top camber adjustment at the most positive setting. Also going to have to tweak the caster on one side a bit I think.

.

[PoorMans180SX]

[ka-titties]

Is that a S-chassis?

[PoorMans180SX]

Yessir, that's the old MCA Hammerhead setup. Modified Driftworks knuckles and Ikeya formula lowers.


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