This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread. - Page 202 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

tauntdevil · 12-09-2013, 11:06 PM

So if I get this straight, you guys are extending the tie rod ends to make up for not using a spacer that way the tie rod will reach the knuckle correct?

To me, would seem easier to just extend the inner tie rod instead but I am not putting much thought into it.

az_240 · 12-10-2013, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Def

The the hell S chassis guys insist on running that horribly soft stock FLCA bushing is beyond me. Or maybe they run a urethane bushing which in a lot of ways is even worse.

Unfortunately there just aren't many options out there for this unless you're a fabricator and have the time and resources. If not, having someone put together a kit and weld that up along with new bump stops and adjustable tension rods made for wheel clearance you might as well go with PBM FLCAs.

PoorMans180SX · 12-10-2013, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by az_240

Unfortunately there just aren't many options out there for this unless you're a fabricator and have the time and resources. If not, having someone put together a kit and weld that up along with new bump stops and adjustable tension rods made for wheel clearance you might as well go with PBM FLCAs.

On that note, I heard PSM is coming out with new FLCA's with bent tension rods...

pjmrnolife1 · 12-10-2013, 07:50 AM

We should keep things simple, weld new pivot points on the coilover, here's the link and zoom in Builds>> Team Nfs D-mac Ae86 Pt.v | Speedhunters

PoorMans180SX · 12-10-2013, 10:51 AM

Thought this was pretty neat (I'm pretty sure that's a new upper strut mount too):

If they had these out earlier I would have had a lot harder time deciding on what parts to buy...

Previously...

thefro526 · 12-10-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Thought this was pretty neat (I'm pretty sure that's a new upper strut mount too):

If they had these out earlier I would have had a lot harder time deciding on what parts to buy...

Every time PSM comes out with new stuff, I have the urge to bang my head against a wall since I've got the full susp catalog (most of it's 2010/2011-spec) installed on a car that doesn't run. :/ Looks like I'll be swapping some of the older spec bits onto my S14 and getting the new stuff for my S13, lol.

Random, but my only real complaint/criticism about PSM's LCA (front and rear) is that it's not adjustable while on the car. It'd be amazing if it had a double adjuster like the RUCA/Toe Arm etc. A double adjuster there would allow you do camber control at the LCA and caster in the top hat (independent (mostly) adjustment of each) and keep the wheel at a relatively static location in the wheel well (fore/aft positioning).

Also, I think you're right and that is a new top hat, it looks pretty far out there, so it's either a two piece sliding design or a single piece similar in function to wisefab. As much as I like the idea of having the top hat way out, I'm kind of apprehensive sense it would mean that it would eliminate any alignment adjustment at the top hat (camber or caster) forcing camber adjustment to be done either at the LCA (which can't be adjusted on car) or at the knuckle... Neither of which are all that appealing. Although I guess the idea with the static top hat is that it's position is more or less optimized for maximum angle, so the need to dial in an alignment is probably unnecessary beyond getting the car to drive straight.

PoorMans180SX · 12-10-2013, 11:38 AM

Yes, that is true about the top hat. One thing I like very much about mine.

Yeah FLCA double adjuster is nice. I think once you have it adjusted though, it's kinda pointless. It's like set and forget once you get off the alignment rack.

KevinEdgar · 12-10-2013, 03:00 PM

I'm so glad pbm is offering the bent type to the public, I knew waiting for their new kit would be worth it.

DC Dan MAX USA · 12-10-2013, 03:10 PM

Yes we are testing some parts to make 5-10 degrees more angle. Although if your full suite of current parts have enough angle to do some glorious drifting without ever touching the bump stop, then its really not worth being bummed that the options from this company may be eventually expanding pending some testing.

Our current Pro top plate is camber & caster adjustable so we wont be making a step backwards and make it non-adjustable we are just testing a longer slot.

FLCA double adjuster:
Convenient, but Its more parts between the arm and the car, so we just feel like the single adjuster is stronger in this critical point.
You unbolt the stock M14, twist the rod end as desired and then bolt it back on. After align you may never touch it again. So we think this is a reasonable trade off of time and strength.

stephens14sr · 12-10-2013, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

Yes we are testing some parts to make 5-10 degrees more angle. Although if your full suite of current parts have enough angle to do some glorious drifting without ever touching the bump stop, then its really not worth being bummed that the options from this company may be eventually expanding pending some testing.

Our current Pro top plate is camber & caster adjustable so we wont be making a step backwards and make it non-adjustable we are just testing a longer slot.

FLCA double adjuster:
Convenient, but Its more parts between the arm and the car, so we just feel like the single adjuster is stronger in this critical point.
You unbolt the stock M14, twist the rod end as desired and then bolt it back on. After align you may never touch it again. So we think this is a reasonable trade off of time and strength.

i hope that kit gets released. im hitting tension rod already with it offset. with a 9.5 -25 and the pro knuckles.

DC Dan MAX USA · 12-10-2013, 03:57 PM

to be clear, with our PRO knuckle you are hitting your Battle version/SPL FLCA/Tension rod setup and not our MAX FLCA/inboard mounted tension rod combo, Correct?

Touge_Monster · 12-10-2013, 06:58 PM

I was wondering if any of you dudes could help me with this. I'm about to extend my flca 15mm and mod the stock knuckle for roll center correction only (no angle mods). Will my tein inner and outers be okay or will I need to get the Pbm inners?

Thanks!

stephens14sr · 12-10-2013, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

to be clear, with our PRO knuckle you are hitting your Battle version/SPL FLCA/Tension rod setup and not our MAX FLCA/inboard mounted tension rod combo, Correct?

yes! not your setup. i will be switching to yalls setup here shortly.

PoorMans180SX · 12-11-2013, 01:19 PM

17's do fit with the 100mm TDP kit.

jaysgottaredtop · 12-11-2013, 02:59 PM

FYI: be careful using stock s13/s14/maxima/i30/etc inner tie rods with slip-on tie rod spacers.

there are enough engaging threads for the tie rod to hold on inside the rack during most situations

...but clip your tire on the lead guy's bumper during a tandem run, and it'll rip the threads right out

fortunately the threads inside the rack were fine, so it only took a short run to the parts store for a replacement tie rod (maxima in this case) and i was back out on track.

just saying. be careful. it's probably worth the money to invest in a better spacer style, such as PBM inner tie rods (with the spacer built into the joint, not taking up threads). or if you need longer tie rods than PBM, look into getting a combo of OEM inner tie rods (s14, z32, maxima, whatever suits your needs) with thread-in steering rack spacers (like those offered by GKTech).

NAIRB · 12-11-2013, 03:47 PM

PBM, what sway bar are you using with the new bent type flca/tension rod combo?

Black240Ct · 12-11-2013, 05:58 PM

OEM Moog inners are the same thread length. I ripped mine out with slip on spacers. Get ones like tein with longer threads or pbm with it already machined. Learned that one a difficult way

DC Dan MAX USA · 12-11-2013, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephens14sr

yes! not your setup. i will be switching to yalls setup here shortly.

Thanks for your business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAIRB

PBM, what sway bar are you using with the new bent type flca/tension rod combo?

A narrowed stock bar with custom brackets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black240Ct

OEM Moog inners are the same thread length. I ripped mine out with slip on spacers. Get ones like tein with longer threads or pbm with it already machined. Learned that one a difficult way

Its not just that the Parts Shop MAX inner tie rod has the rackspacer built in, (saving 7mm of thread for the rack engagement) but it also has an additional 7mm of thread for a total of 14mm more thread in the rack than a stock tie rod with a slip on spacer.

joshchewuhh · 12-11-2013, 10:54 PM

Okay so couple questions.
Does extending your LCA cause your caster to be all goofy? (extened 15mm after the tension rod)

I put my whole setup together and when I turn im rubbing my fenders like crazy (oem fenders) I still have to get it aligned, but I noticed when I threw everything on my ride height was much lower than before. I did raise it up a bit. Id say my camber is at about -6 or so. It never rubbed before putting all this stuff on.

My setup once more 15mm extended s14 LCA on s13. PBM forged knuckles. 17x9 +12

Im just having all sorts of problems with this setup lmao t-___-t

stephens14sr · 12-11-2013, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshchewuhh

Okay so couple questions.
Does extending your LCA cause your caster to be all goofy? (extened 15mm after the tension rod)

I put my whole setup together and when I turn im rubbing my fenders like crazy (oem fenders) I still have to get it aligned, but I noticed when I threw everything on my ride height was much lower than before. I did raise it up a bit. Id say my camber is at about -6 or so. It never rubbed before putting all this stuff on.

My setup once more 15mm extended s14 LCA on s13. PBM forged knuckles. 17x9 +12

Im just having all sorts of problems with this setup lmao t-___-t

i could be wrong, but i think the proknuckles are 25mm or so drop knuckles as well.

joshchewuhh · 12-12-2013, 12:17 AM

Ya they do. Does the 25mm correction affect the length of the tension rod since my arms are now parallel?

Kirstin03Koly · 12-12-2013, 02:21 AM

As we know for different people they use different kinds of mobile phone signals. Just as the people around you like your friends, your colleagues, your family members and so on, they may use the different mobile phone signals as now there are various mobile phone signals from different companies and of which the frequency bands are also different such as the CDMA, GSM, DCS, PCS, 3G, 4G LTE and 4G Wimax. So in different conditions and circumstances people are in need of the Cell Phone Blockers that of different frequency bands. But if people are in great need of a mobile phone jammer via which they can decide the jamming frequency bands what kind of device should they choose? Of course, the adjustable Cell Phone Blocker is the best for them in such condition.

PoorMans180SX · 12-12-2013, 02:39 AM

No, the forged knuckles are not "drop knuckles, only roll center correction. More negative camber is what's making your car lower. Yes caster will change now that your arms are closer to parallel.

az_240 · 12-12-2013, 02:55 AM

^beat me to it

Slenis · 12-12-2013, 07:51 AM

any thoughts on this kit : S-Chassis Front End Suspension Assembly ??

joshchewuhh · 12-12-2013, 10:26 AM

Cool so an alignment will correct my issues? Thanks for all the info. Learning as I go

PoorMans180SX · 12-12-2013, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshchewuhh

Cool so an alignment will correct my issues? Thanks for all the info. Learning as I go

Yeah an alignment should your issues, you might have to play around a bit to get it right.

Def · 12-12-2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by az_240

Unfortunately there just aren't many options out there for this unless you're a fabricator and have the time and resources. If not, having someone put together a kit and weld that up along with new bump stops and adjustable tension rods made for wheel clearance you might as well go with PBM FLCAs.

There are tons of options, especially now. And a $300 MIG setup is not having to "be a fabricator," and would easily weld on the stuff to put a rod end there.

I just think 240 guys have turned into the community that will do a half-assed job to save a few bucks on something instead of taking the pride to do things well. It's sad, as the cars have some really good points.

az_240 · 12-12-2013, 06:03 PM

^Not arguing that most s-chassis guys aren't cheapasses.... that's proven all the time.
Most have never welded anything in their lives let alone owned any sort of welding setup. I wouldn't advise anyone with little to no experience just go to town on their LCAs and possibly put their lives or others at risk to try to save a few bucks.
So for those that want to do it right but can't fab up their own stuff a decent OEM modified FLCA setup is going to be $$$... might as well save some time/headache and buy proven off the shelf components for about the same price.

sviellvoicae · 12-12-2013, 06:22 PM

It seems I'm running into this uncommon issue as well. My set up is 25mm extended lca's, steering rack moved forward 25mm, pbm forged knuckles, pbm inner tie rods, and moog rod ends. I don't seem to have enough lenght on the rod ends to adjust toe. At least it doesn't seem like enough to be safe. I've researched this set up a lot and never seen this issue. Any ideas? I believe the rack is centered but could that cause it if it's not perfect? Thanks

12-09-2013, 11:06 PM	#6031
tauntdevil Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Arizona/LA, California Posts: 476 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	So if I get this straight, you guys are extending the tie rod ends to make up for not using a spacer that way the tie rod will reach the knuckle correct? To me, would seem easier to just extend the inner tie rod instead but I am not putting much thought into it. __________________ S14 KA NA two cylinders, 75whp limper

12-10-2013, 07:50 AM	#6034
pjmrnolife1 Zilvia Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: ft laud Age: 37 Posts: 149 Trader Rating: (-1) Feedback Score: -1 reviews	http://www.speedhunters.com/2011/02/builds_gt_gt_team_nfs_d_mac_ae86_pt_v/ We should keep things simple, weld new pivot points on the coilover, here's the link and zoom in Builds>> Team Nfs D-mac Ae86 Pt.v \| Speedhunters Last edited by pjmrnolife1; 12-10-2013 at 07:53 AM.. Reason: show the link

12-10-2013, 10:51 AM	#6035
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 5,574 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Thought this was pretty neat (I'm pretty sure that's a new upper strut mount too): If they had these out earlier I would have had a lot harder time deciding on what parts to buy... Previously... __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

12-10-2013, 11:38 AM	#6037
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 5,574 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	Yes, that is true about the top hat. One thing I like very much about mine. Yeah FLCA double adjuster is nice. I think once you have it adjusted though, it's kinda pointless. It's like set and forget once you get off the alignment rack. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

12-10-2013, 03:00 PM	#6038
KevinEdgar Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: osaka, japan Posts: 1,176 Trader Rating: (19) Feedback Score: 19 reviews	I'm so glad pbm is offering the bent type to the public, I knew waiting for their new kit would be worth it. __________________ http://milktea-man.com

12-10-2013, 03:10 PM	#6039
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	Yes we are testing some parts to make 5-10 degrees more angle. Although if your full suite of current parts have enough angle to do some glorious drifting without ever touching the bump stop, then its really not worth being bummed that the options from this company may be eventually expanding pending some testing. Our current Pro top plate is camber & caster adjustable so we wont be making a step backwards and make it non-adjustable we are just testing a longer slot. FLCA double adjuster: Convenient, but Its more parts between the arm and the car, so we just feel like the single adjuster is stronger in this critical point. You unbolt the stock M14, twist the rod end as desired and then bolt it back on. After align you may never touch it again. So we think this is a reasonable trade off of time and strength. __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

12-10-2013, 03:57 PM	#6041
DC Dan MAX USA Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 2,478 Trader Rating: (79) Feedback Score: 79 reviews	to be clear, with our PRO knuckle you are hitting your Battle version/SPL FLCA/Tension rod setup and not our MAX FLCA/inboard mounted tension rod combo, Correct? __________________ How To order: You can order directly from our zilvia advertiser threads. When you add to cart, you get an instant shipping estimate, & the cart will remember all of your items as you move between forum threads and our website www.poweredbymax.net until you remove them or check out. I can also calculate estimates manually for you but the cart's estimates are way faster and more accurate. Order Inquiry: IM me your real name and paypal address. Thanks for your business!

12-11-2013, 01:19 PM	#6044
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 5,574 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	17's do fit with the 100mm TDP kit. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

12-11-2013, 02:59 PM	#6045
jaysgottaredtop Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 950 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	FYI: be careful using stock s13/s14/maxima/i30/etc inner tie rods with slip-on tie rod spacers. there are enough engaging threads for the tie rod to hold on inside the rack during most situations ...but clip your tire on the lead guy's bumper during a tandem run, and it'll rip the threads right out fortunately the threads inside the rack were fine, so it only took a short run to the parts store for a replacement tie rod (maxima in this case) and i was back out on track. just saying. be careful. it's probably worth the money to invest in a better spacer style, such as PBM inner tie rods (with the spacer built into the joint, not taking up threads). or if you need longer tie rods than PBM, look into getting a combo of OEM inner tie rods (s14, z32, maxima, whatever suits your needs) with thread-in steering rack spacers (like those offered by GKTech). __________________

12-11-2013, 03:47 PM	#6046
NAIRB Leaky Injector Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: providence Age: 32 Posts: 112 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	PBM, what sway bar are you using with the new bent type flca/tension rod combo?

12-11-2013, 05:58 PM	#6047
Black240Ct Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: CT Age: 38 Posts: 562 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	OEM Moog inners are the same thread length. I ripped mine out with slip on spacers. Get ones like tein with longer threads or pbm with it already machined. Learned that one a difficult way

12-11-2013, 10:54 PM	#6049
joshchewuhh Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: brocal! Posts: 3,681 Trader Rating: (56) Feedback Score: 56 reviews	Okay so couple questions. Does extending your LCA cause your caster to be all goofy? (extened 15mm after the tension rod) I put my whole setup together and when I turn im rubbing my fenders like crazy (oem fenders) I still have to get it aligned, but I noticed when I threw everything on my ride height was much lower than before. I did raise it up a bit. Id say my camber is at about -6 or so. It never rubbed before putting all this stuff on. My setup once more 15mm extended s14 LCA on s13. PBM forged knuckles. 17x9 +12 Im just having all sorts of problems with this setup lmao t-___-t

12-12-2013, 12:17 AM	#6051
joshchewuhh Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: brocal! Posts: 3,681 Trader Rating: (56) Feedback Score: 56 reviews	Ya they do. Does the 25mm correction affect the length of the tension rod since my arms are now parallel?

12-12-2013, 02:21 AM	#6052
Kirstin03Koly Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: califorlia Age: 45 Posts: 1 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	As we know for different people they use different kinds of mobile phone signals. Just as the people around you like your friends, your colleagues, your family members and so on, they may use the different mobile phone signals as now there are various mobile phone signals from different companies and of which the frequency bands are also different such as the CDMA, GSM, DCS, PCS, 3G, 4G LTE and 4G Wimax. So in different conditions and circumstances people are in need of the Cell Phone Blockers that of different frequency bands. But if people are in great need of a mobile phone jammer via which they can decide the jamming frequency bands what kind of device should they choose? Of course, the adjustable Cell Phone Blocker is the best for them in such condition. Last edited by Kirstin03Koly; 12-16-2013 at 11:13 PM..

12-12-2013, 02:39 AM	#6053
PoorMans180SX Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 5,574 Trader Rating: (16) Rides Gallery: PoorMans180SX Feedback Score: 16 reviews	This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification t... No, the forged knuckles are not "drop knuckles, only roll center correction. More negative camber is what's making your car lower. Yes caster will change now that your arms are closer to parallel. __________________ Build: http://zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=643065 Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

12-12-2013, 02:55 AM	#6054
az_240 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Phx Posts: 3,097 Trader Rating: (41) Feedback Score: 41 reviews	^beat me to it

12-12-2013, 07:51 AM	#6055
Slenis Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Sweden Age: 31 Posts: 11 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	any thoughts on this kit : S-Chassis Front End Suspension Assembly ??

12-12-2013, 10:26 AM	#6056
joshchewuhh Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: brocal! Posts: 3,681 Trader Rating: (56) Feedback Score: 56 reviews	Cool so an alignment will correct my issues? Thanks for all the info. Learning as I go

12-12-2013, 06:03 PM	#6059
az_240 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Phx Posts: 3,097 Trader Rating: (41) Feedback Score: 41 reviews	^Not arguing that most s-chassis guys aren't cheapasses.... that's proven all the time. Most have never welded anything in their lives let alone owned any sort of welding setup. I wouldn't advise anyone with little to no experience just go to town on their LCAs and possibly put their lives or others at risk to try to save a few bucks. So for those that want to do it right but can't fab up their own stuff a decent OEM modified FLCA setup is going to be $$$... might as well save some time/headache and buy proven off the shelf components for about the same price. Last edited by az_240; 12-12-2013 at 06:35 PM..

12-12-2013, 06:22 PM	#6060
sviellvoicae Zilvia Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Reno Age: 36 Posts: 235 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	It seems I'm running into this uncommon issue as well. My set up is 25mm extended lca's, steering rack moved forward 25mm, pbm forged knuckles, pbm inner tie rods, and moog rod ends. I don't seem to have enough lenght on the rod ends to adjust toe. At least it doesn't seem like enough to be safe. I've researched this set up a lot and never seen this issue. Any ideas? I believe the rack is centered but could that cause it if it's not perfect? Thanks