So what did you think of the debate?

[40daws]

Chris Rock summed it up I think for some. "Its not about Republicans or Democrats. Its do you vote for the guy with 12 houses and $150 million in the bank or the guy with 1 house and one million. The guy with one house is worried about losing his only home. The guy with 12 could lose 5 and still sleep well."

[The ROMAN]

McCain lied about what Kissinger said! So this makes it number what?

I really only thought Obama's point about "talking to anybody" in regards to foreign relations was a solid point. I was late, so missed his 1-2-3 points about the economy but I heard that was pretty strong too. Everything else for both candidates seems to not really go anywhere. McCain's stories felt like he was just killing time to me and he seemed a bit wobbly with his voice as opposed to Obama's damn near statue clam.

[LeftNutOfGowd]

I voted for Arnold lol

[RJF]

Originally Posted by The ROMAN

McCain lied about what Kissinger said! So this makes it number what?

No, Obama lied.

Kissinger was contacted and said that was not what he said.

Kissinger Unhappy About Obama

Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

The Weekly Standard

[Grendel]

I thought the whole story about some mother telling McCain the war needs to be finished so her kid didn't die in vain is garbage.

If I died when I was in Iraq you can be damn sure my parents wouldn't be saying that bullshit.

I think McCain interrupted Obama just as much as Obama interrupted McCain. McCain also needs to quit talking about his time as a POW, that has nothing to do with being president. All it means is he was a shitty pilot who crashed plane after plane, and kept getting new ones because his daddy was an Admiral. Then SURPRISE he crashes another one, only this time he got snatched up for it. Oh well.

[RJF]

Crashed?

Let's see what you or any pilot could do if your wing was shot off by a SAM.

[yudalicious]

I think Obama with a slight edge. I think Mccain's campaign, with all the distractions and hoopla about whether or not to come to the debate, did pretty well for itself. Now, what I'm REALLY looking forward to, is the VP debate, I want to see what kind of "insights" Palin's geographical location has afforded her on foreign issues ;]

[The ROMAN]

Originally Posted by RJF

No, Obama lied.

Kissinger was contacted and said that was not what he said.

Kissinger Unhappy About Obama

Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

The Weekly Standard

Ok then McCain and Kissinger are lying. Seriously: ABC News: Kissinger Backs Direct Talks 'Without Conditions' with Iran

[RJF]

ABC ? Another reliable source.

A ll
B arrack
C hannel

[Matej]

Why do so many people say that McCain's foreign policy is good? I see all these news stories reporting that people prefer McCain in that aspect.
His foreign policy is terrible, he's just another one of those people who think that all foreign problems can be solved with threatening military might.
That's not having experience, that's just being a bigot.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by RJF

No, Obama lied.

Kissinger was contacted and said that was not what he said.

Kissinger Unhappy About Obama

Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

The Weekly Standard

That comes from a website reporting that McCain clearly won the debate.

[The ROMAN]

Originally Posted by RJF

ABC ? Another reliable source.

A ll
B arrack
C hannel

Are you serious? A quote is a quote. Whatever Kissinger is saying now, he said the opposite to an audience in Washington prior to the debate, as shown in that article.

And besides, your source is supposed to somehow be unbiased? From their wiki:
"The Weekly Standard is an American neoconservative opinion magazine published 48 times per year."
The Weekly Standard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or if that's not good enough, from W. Kristol, the mags own founder:
"The Weekly Standard is a conservative magazine, of course. We make no bones about it. "
Right Web | Profile | Weekly Standard

[imotion s14]

re-watching it.. it's like watching 2 used cars salesmen who owns lots across from one another.

[Xbroke_kidX]

i think McCain can talk for 5 minutes and not tell you anything.

[shade]

Eh, no surprise there. My family is a military family, practically every single one of my uncles and male cousins are in the military and right now I'm working on to be a commissioned officer myself for the Army. Senior non-commissioned officers in my family own around 3-4 at most houses, only NCOs! Compared to McCain who was a commissioned officer, I think that's a good ratio. He also inherited properties from his grandfather and father, both who were retired Admirals in the Navy. People actually make it sound like he didn't work for or deserve what he owns. Shame, shame. Prior service and a politician, what the hell do you guys expect him to own?

Originally Posted by 40daws

Chris Rock summed it up I think for some. "Its not about Republicans or Democrats. Its do you vote for the guy with 12 houses and $150 million in the bank or the guy with 1 house and one million. The guy with one house is worried about losing his only home. The guy with 12 could lose 5 and still sleep well."

You sure that you watched the debate?

Originally Posted by Matej

Why do so many people say that McCain's foreign policy is good? I see all these news stories reporting that people prefer McCain in that aspect.
His foreign policy is terrible, he's just another one of those people who think that all foreign problems can be solved with threatening military might.
That's not having experience, that's just being a bigot.

[Matej]

Are you sure he really worked that hard for anything? To me it seems that he just rode out his father's coattails all his life.
From what I've read, it seems that he never really excelled at anything, he was always towards the end of the pack, and he was able to work his way up mainly thanks to his father's influence.
Actually, he's only alive thanks to his father, as McCain was in a critical condition when he was a pow, and the North Vietnamese refused to give him medical treatment until they found out that his father was a top ranking admiral. Sadly, all other pow's in his condition were left to die.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by RJF

No, Obama lied.

Kissinger was contacted and said that was not what he said.

Kissinger Unhappy About Obama

Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

The Weekly Standard

actually, McCain lied. Kissinger was RECORDED saying this on CNNRadio and was replayed all night. Heard it live and heard it last night. When McCain tried to call Obama a liar I was nearly screaming at the tv that McCain didn't even know what his own adviser said. McCain tried to then flip it to "well he never said president." In fact the interview was quite clear that Kissinger stated the president.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by RJF

ABC ? Another reliable source.

A ll
B arrack
C hannel

yes, and FoxNews is a all McCain all the time channel. If you want real news turn to BBCAmerica.

[Matej]

Haha after seeing this I can't wait to see Palin debate.

YouTube - Jack Cafferty Tells Us How He Really Feels About Sarah Palin

[RJF]

Wow, one network that might and I repeat might have a bias instead of every other news organization in the country being pro-Obama. Wonder what the ratio of viewers are for that?

Washington Times - Poll: News media biased for Obama

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

No, media bias, huh?

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/t...24/134120.html



Ok, another news organization reports what Kissinger said.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/27/kissinger.iran/

Yes, we should negotiate with Iran but not at the presidential level.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by RJF

Wow, one network that might and I repeat might have a bias instead of every other news organization in the country being pro-Obama. Wonder what the ratio of viewers are for that?

Washington Times - Poll: News media biased for Obama

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

No, media bias, huh?

Newsmax.com – NBC&#39s Luke Russert Tips Hand For Obama



Ok, another news organization reports what Kissinger said.

Kissinger defends McCain on structuring Iranian talks - CNN.com

Yes, we should negotiate with Iran but not at the presidential level.

I do agree with the fact that the media is all over Obamas jock. I do think that he reminds a lot of people of JFK though. Theres a good reason why so many people like him, its because hes so likable. But that doesnt excuse the mass amount of press towards Obama and not McCain.
This is why I watch and listen to BBCAmerica and I think that is the exact reason why I believe Polin was chosen over Lebberman, to attract attention to the Republican campaign.
McCain isnt the biggest fear for me, its Polin. Realistically, shes a dumbass who doesnt deserve to be where shes at. Just look at the crap she says, its freaking crazy. She took 7 years and 3 colleges to graduate with a JOURNALISM degree.
With McCain I agree with a lot of things, in fact he might be likable in a time of peace. I just disagree with his foreign policies. Its Polin that Im scared of.

[Phlip]

YouTube - John McCain Says HORSESH*T During the 9/26 Debate

[The ROMAN]

Ok then the hell with news sites then, lets go to the videotape.

Originally Posted by RJF

Yes, we should negotiate with Iran but not at the presidential level.

Yes, not at the Presidential level......but without preconditions. That was the point that is debated as to whether McCain lied or not, not at what level. At around 7:45 you can see what Kissinger said in this video.

YouTube - Palin CBS interview (Couric) 2 + Kissinger and talking to Iran without preconditions

Heres are shorter one with the different speechs of McCain and Palin:
YouTube - Palin and McCain On Kissinger/Iran

And here you go, Kissinger agrees with the secretary of state, who states "without preconditions"
YouTube - 9/26 Debate: McCain's "PRECONDITIONS"

Hey, maybe McCain didn't actually mean to lie to the American people, he's just old is all. My grandfather forgets stuff all the time; it's not his fault.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by The ROMAN

Ok then the hell with news sites then, lets go to the videotape.


Yes, not at the Presidential level......but without preconditions. That was the point that is debated as to whether McCain lied or not, not at what level. At around 7:45 you can see what Kissinger said in this video.

YouTube - Palin CBS interview (Couric) 2 + Kissinger and talking to Iran without preconditions

Heres are shorter one with the different speechs of McCain and Palin:
YouTube - Palin and McCain On Kissinger/Iran

And here you go, Kissinger agrees with the secretary of state, who states "without preconditions"
YouTube - 9/26 Debate: McCain's "PRECONDITIONS"

Hey, maybe McCain didn't actually mean to lie to the American people, he's just old is all. My grandfather forgets stuff all the time; it's not his fault.

McCain and the Republican party is playing damage control. Even though Kissinger stated that he is in favor with sitting and speaking with world leaders without preconditions at a very high level, then stated at the Secretary of State level right out of the box INITIALLY, that TOTALLY doesnt mean at the Presidential level. McCain was wrong to assume to know what "his friend" meant and it was pretty clear that Kissinger and Obama are closer than McCain is on this subject. Even if the Secretary of State met with Mohmoud Ahmadinejad this will STILL give Iran validity for their cause, totally dismissing what McCain said.

[adictd2b00st]

Originally Posted by Mi Beardo es Loco

I think McCain swung and missed when he stated that a he spoke to a mother of a soldier who died in Iraq and she didn't want him to die in vein. That indicated that a soldier is fighting for the glory and not following orders that were based on a fiction from a corrupt president.

AMEN TO THAT

its called pride, everyone has pride in what they do and dont want to "fail"......but there also comes a time when you need to swallow that pride and move on. this is one of those times

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

Originally Posted by adictd2b00st

AMEN TO THAT

its called pride, everyone has pride in what they do and dont want to "fail"......but there also comes a time when you need to swallow that pride and move on. this is one of those times

exactly. Just the concept of "winning" in an occupation still escapes me.

[S14DB]

I think they were both Master debaters.

[RJF]

Last night Obama mentioned McCain's plan for a health insurance tax credit and how it would be taxable. Today Biden was running with it.

Four Pinocchios for Biden's Tax Fabrication - Fact Checker

Democratic vice presidential hopeful Joe Biden claims that middle class Americans will be slapped with the "largest tax increase in American history" as a result of the McCain health care plan. It is true that McCain has proposed taxing the health-care benefits that Americans receive through their employers. However, Biden conveniently overlooks the fact that the Republican nominee is offering tax-payers a credit that should cover the cost of going out and buying insurance.

The Facts

John McCain wants to drastically overhaul the health insurance system in order to encourage Americans to go out and buy their own health care plans rather than relying on employer-based plans. To achieve this, he plans to tax employer-provided health benefits and provide a $2,500 tax credit ($5,000 for families) toward the cost of health insurance.

By most independent calculations, the McCain plan will leave most taxpayers better off in strictly financial terms, at least until 2013. After 2013, the benefits will begin to diminish. By 2018, taxpayers in the top quintile will be slightly worse off, but middle-income taxpayers will either break even or be slightly ahead. According to the non-partisan Tax Policy Center, the McCain proposals will result in a net benefit of $1,241 to the average tax payer in 2009, $895 in 2013, and $386 in 2018.

"It is not fair to pull out just one part of the McCain proposal," said Eric Toder, a TPC analyst. "It is a package. They are giving back more than they are taking away."

Jason Furman, director of economic policy for the Obama campaign, pointed out that the McCain campaign skips over the tax increase side of the health plan on its website and focuses instead on the tax credit. He also notes that, according to the McCain website, the credit will be paid directly to insurance companies to cover the cost of health insurance rather than to individuals.

This is true, but it is still a tax credit, in whatever manner it is paid. If you are able to buy insurance for less than the cost of the credit, you will be able to deposit the balance in a health savings account, according to the McCain plan.

So how did Biden arrive at the $1 trillion price tag for "middle class" tax payers? Probably from the Office of the Management and Budget which estimates the cost of excluding employer-provided health benefits from tax revenues at $1.05 trillion between 2009 and 2013. Note that this is all taxpayers, not just the "middle class."

It is worth noting that there has been a lot of loose talk about taxes on the campaign trail. The McCain campaign has accused Biden of supporting the "largest tax increase in American history" by voting for a non-binding budget resolution that would phase out the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003. This is nonsense, on several levels. First, the Bush tax cuts are due to be phased out anyway under current law. Second, Obama and Biden favor an extension of the Bush tax cuts for middle and low-income Americans. Third, by any reasonable measure, any tax increases endorsed by Obama or Biden are trivial compared to the huge tax hikes of World War II.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that the repeal of the Bush tax cuts would result in a reduction of after-tax incomes of 4.2 percent, and 2.67 percent for taxpayers in the middle-income quintile. During World War II, by contrast, federal tax revenues ballooned from $8.7 billion to $45.2 billion. Federal taxes as a share of GDP grew from 7.6 percent in 1941 to 20.4 percent in 1945.

The Pinocchio Test

Both campaigns have stretched the truth to the breaking point in describing each other's tax plans. In this particular case, Joe Biden has looked at only the negative side of the balance sheet--and ignored the positive. It is simply not true that the McCain health plan represents the largest "tax increase" in American history.

[40daws]

McBusch looked like a sullen child told to stand in a corner. He could not look at the camera,could not look at Obama and those dried up ass jokes bombed. Bringing up old ass dead white guys means nothing to the voting block that will decide this election. Holding sand in your hand in Pakistan and walking through a secured zone means nothing.

[40daws]

FROM CNN’s Jack Cafferty:

There is a reason the McCain campaign keeps Governor Sarah Palin away from the press.

This is a direct excerpt from Katie Couric’s One-On-One interview with Sarah Palin, which aired Wednesday on CBS.

COURIC: Why isn’t it better, Governor Palin, to spend $700 billion helping middle-class families struggling with health care, housing, gas and groceries? … Instead of helping these big financial institutions that played a role in creating this mess?

PALIN: Ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up the economy– Oh, it’s got to be about job creation too. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions.

If McCain wins, this woman will be a 72-year- old heartbeat away from being president of the United States.

This shows Mcbusch's wise decisions.