s14 subframe in s13

[NismoPlsr]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

The taper is different between rear s13 and s14 ball joints, so you will need to get s14 spindles or take the opportunity to run z32 aluminum uprights (but those will necessitate changing your lower shock mount to z32 fork style). The length between s13 and s14 rlcas is the same, it's just the bushing width that is different. The RLCA inner bushings are 40 mm wide on S13/Z32, 50mm on S14s.

The ball joint taper is the same in the rear for s13 and s14. It is the press fit diameter of ball joint to control arm that is different. So any upright will work with any LCA.

[e1_griego]

Whoops, sorry. I read somewhere they were different (or misinterpreted what I was reading) : http://zilvia.net/f/s-chassis/243438...ml#post2727044

If you're going to all that trouble you should be swapping in z32 uprights anyway.

[7jpat]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

Whoops, sorry. I read somewhere they were different (or misinterpreted what I was reading) : http://zilvia.net/f/s-chassis/243438...ml#post2727044

If you're going to all that trouble you should be swapping in z32 uprights anyway.

whats so good about z32 uprights vs s14

[7jpat]

i Google it , weight difference , so whats needed to do the swap on that with s14 subframe on s13, all the above aka s14 arms ruca rlca toe and s13 strut or coils with z32 mounts

[e1_griego]

If you can google that, then s14 subframe swap shouldn't be that hard to figure out

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

bunch of stupid idiots in this thread


yes, you need the fucking offset bushings.

Originally Posted by e1_griego

Also, most of the people stretching out the bushings to fit are trying to conform to Street Mod autox rules which explicitly prohibit offset bushings.
Please go read: S-14 subframe into S-13 discussion... - Nissan Road Racing Forums

Since fuck-face over there thinks he is sooo fucking correct about the issue...

I plan to RACE my car... not hardpark the shit out of it and say "yeah I have an S13 with all S14 suspension because I'm MadJDMTyte yo!"

I have a set of rules to comply with and this mod has been done by more than a few other SM classed 240sx's and run for quite some time successfully WITHOUT offset bushings. Proof that this mod can indeed be safely completed WITHOUT the offset bushings.

Thanks for the sweet words though. I almost blushed.

[bc.]

why isn't stretching the stock bushings considered offset bushings also? its offset from the original location just as much as the spl bushings are.

[Seraphim38]

Since I am very interested in hearing about how to improve grip, this apparently must be added to my Excel spreadsheet of modifications planned

e1_greigo, I may call/PM about this to make sure that I go about it right when the time comes.

[e1_griego]

Originally Posted by bc.

why isn't stretching the stock bushings considered offset bushings also? its offset from the original location just as much as the spl bushings are.

Because the bushings themselves are just stock, and just deflection. Not designed with an offset in place. Yes, effectively the same thing, but autox rules aren't 100% logical some times.

Originally Posted by Seraphim38

e1_greigo, I may call/PM about this to make sure that I go about it right when the time comes.

Fair enough, it's all covered on NRR. This should come after you get rid of your tanabes.

[Seraphim38]

I just found the NRR thread that is tens of pages on the subject so I will read it. I will probably try to redo my rear suspension all at once, with new springs, S14 sub frame, SPL bushings and SPL diff bushings, but I have to get the FI/ECU sorted first.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

Whoops, sorry. I read somewhere they were different (or misinterpreted what I was reading) : http://zilvia.net/f/s-chassis/243438...ml#post2727044

If you're going to all that trouble you should be swapping in z32 uprights anyway.

they are indeed different. anything can be MADE to fit with force and a sledge hammer, as already proven by numerous thick-minded zilvia-kin. when i was doing my own independent research, i noticed that the spindle wouldnt fully seat onto the ball joint down enough to install the retaining pin. So, i immediately swapped and installed the proper spindle. woopdeedoo, end of problem. i mean, its not like these parts cost a dime a dozen. when you buy a subframe, often times the seller is selling it COMPLETE.

Originally Posted by 7jpat

i Google it , weight difference , so whats needed to do the swap on that with s14 subframe on s13, all the above aka s14 arms ruca rlca toe and s13 strut or coils with z32 mounts

Difference between the spindles is that one is cast iron while the other is aluminum. rear shock mount is different.

Originally Posted by Bubba

Since fuck-face over there thinks he is sooo fucking correct about the issue... I plan to RACE my car... not hardpark the shit out of it and say "yeah I have an S13 with all S14 suspension because I'm MadJDMTyte yo!"

damn dude, you're hardcore BUBBA. race on, hommie. i mean, i'm sure theres a lot of things to race from when you live in Mississippi. I'm sure that just going to the local liquor store requires a sprinted run down unpaved backroads with your hillbilly friends.

its all good though, because i plan to ditch CHP and gangsters rollin down the 710 freeway through the thuggiest of thug nasty parts of LA.. so your subframe is as good as mine.

Originally Posted by bc.

why isn't stretching the stock bushings considered offset bushings also? its offset from the original location just as much as the spl bushings are.

the best, more accurate description i can give you is.... why dont people walk around with a speculums up their crevices. if you're going to stretch something, i can understand doing that for a brief minute. when you stretch the fuck out of a bushing and are forced to mash it onto the body, thats ghetto. but for some reason folks from the land of no toothpaste and soap, think they know better. what do i know, i'm from LA.

[93'DET]

I want to clarify in this thread, if you have an stock s13 and want to put a s14 subframe you will need...
1. s14 subframe.
2. s13>s14 conversion bushings.
3. s14 rear lower control arms?
4. s14 knuckles/spindle?
5. s14 toe links?

It would be appreciated if someone could clarify that this list is accurate.

[Seraphim38]

And, I would love to hear someone's impression of driving their car after doing the swap: Can you actually feel a difference? Will the change help the most with straight line acceleration, or acceleration out of corners or ?

[MrFairlady]

Ok. I'm in

ixfxi & I have spoken on The conversion previously that I'm doing which is an Entire S15 rear end,suspension,Diff etc etc in mY S14.

does the Driveshaft not have any implications on this Conversion??

I'm hoping my ABS S14 d/s works with my New S15 rear Subframe and everything.
I'm almost ready to Install it w/in a few weeks.

I would almost think about using the S14 Frame I'm going to remove and putting it in my S13 but its a Rusted Turd (whole reason for the entire Rear S15 under Clip I'm using) and would take more time in cleaning everything to me than Its worth.

[e1_griego]

s14 and s15 are the same, aren't they? (minus a couple braces)

Why bother?

[ranger240]

Originally Posted by josephin510

In my years of being outside my cave I found that common sense isn't so common.

read my sig.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

damn dude, you're hardcore BUBBA. race on, hommie. i mean, i'm sure theres a lot of things to race from when you live in Mississippi. I'm sure that just going to the local liquor store requires a sprinted run down unpaved backroads with your hillbilly friends.

its all good though, because i plan to ditch CHP and gangsters rollin down the 710 freeway through the thuggiest of thug nasty parts of LA.. so your subframe is as good as mine.




the best, more accurate description i can give you is.... why dont people walk around with a speculums up their crevices. if you're going to stretch something, i can understand doing that for a brief minute. when you stretch the fuck out of a bushing and are forced to mash it onto the body, thats ghetto. but for some reason folks from the land of no toothpaste and soap, think they know better. what do i know, i'm from LA.

I laughed at those last parts. And you're right, if there were tracks here in South Mississippi I am damn sure they would be run down and shitty. That's why I drive 2-4 hours away to get to a real track when the occasion calls for it. Aside from that this car actually does see a few dirt roads and front yards every now and then. I found it in mud, why act all high and mighty and pretend like mud and dirt aren't my cars homies.

All other things aside, the swap is a cake walk either way you do it. No rule set to follow, buy the bushings. Rule set to follow, join the large club of guys that have done it the OTHER way.

[240zach]

SPL conversion bushings ftw decent price too

[240zach]

Originally Posted by e1_griego

s14 and s15 are the same, aren't they? (minus a couple braces)

Why bother?

cause if you want an s15 sr and you want your speedo to work you need the diff, so an s15 subframe will make the diff bolt up and you can do an s15sr the right way

[fliprayzin240sx]

Originally Posted by Seraphim38

And, I would love to hear someone's impression of driving their car after doing the swap: Can you actually feel a difference? Will the change help the most with straight line acceleration, or acceleration out of corners or ?

I know first hand that I've felt the difference while drifting. S13 feels twitchy while going sideways, upgraded to an S14 subframe and the car felt alot smoother where you dont have to contstantly fight the car.

[NismoPlsr]

Originally Posted by 93'DET

I want to clarify in this thread, if you have an stock s13 and want to put a s14 subframe you will need...
1. s14 subframe.
2. s13>s14 conversion bushings.
3. s14 rear lower control arms?
4. s14 knuckles/spindle?
5. s14 toe links?

It would be appreciated if someone could clarify that this list is accurate.

No need to swap spindles. So cross out #4 and i think you got it.

Originally Posted by MrFairlady

... does the Driveshaft not have any implications on this Conversion??

I'm hoping my ABS S14 d/s works with my New S15 rear Subframe and everything...

Driveshaft is dependent on chassis due to differences in wheel base with s14 being 2" longer than s13 and also ABS or non-ABS due to the sensor making the diff snout longer.

I believe s15 puts the speed sensor in the s14 abs sensor location then adds a sensor on each diff output shaft.

Originally Posted by 240zach

SPL conversion bushings ftw decent price too

Stance's are cheaper if you don't want/need all the adjustment shims.

Originally Posted by 240zach

cause if you want an s15 sr and you want your speedo to work you need the diff, so an s15 subframe will make the diff bolt up and you can do an s15sr the right way

That seems a little excessive, no need to change subframes just to swap diffs.

[240zach]

Originally Posted by NismoPlsr

That seems a little excessive, no need to change subframes just to swap diffs.

the s15 diff has the speed sensor in it. if you want to have a speedo still you would have to have the diff. BUT
i dont know if the diffs are close to the same when it comes to where they bolt up, which is why i would assume someone would need the s15 subframe to run the s15 diff and im pretty sure with an s15 sr, wanting to run an s15 diff, you need the s15 ds as well...any other diff you can use the stock drifeshaft.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by 240zach

the s15 diff has the speed sensor in it. if you want to have a speedo still you would have to have the diff. BUT
i dont know if the diffs are close to the same when it comes to where they bolt up, which is why i would assume someone would need the s15 subframe to run the s15 diff and im pretty sure with an s15 sr, wanting to run an s15 diff, you need the s15 ds as well...any other diff you can use the stock drifeshaft.

s14 and s15 subframes are practically identical, only minor differences exist. ive seen same year s14s with OE gussets that other s14 subframes did not have.

the previous poster pointed out that the differential COVER is the only item that needs to be swapped, if you want to be cheap about it and not install a newer subframe.

[240zach]

@ixfxi
i see this. but im saying isnt the speed sensor in the differential? if you use the 6 speed tranny the speed sensor isnt there.
what im saying is that if you want a 6 speed tranny as well as a speed sensor you would need the s15 diff..

unless the speed sensor is in the diff cover of the s15 then nvm everything im saying. lolz
but if you had to swap full diffs i would assume having to change the subframe and DS.

are you saying the speed sensor is in the diff cover ixfxi?

[NismoPlsr]

You are correct in needing the s15 diff with the speed sensor ,which is in the snout of the housing, but has nothing to do with the subframe. Any s-chassis diff will bolt into any s-chassis subframe as long as you have the proper rear cover that matches the subframe, s13 being 4 bolt and s14/15 being 2 bolt.

[ixfxi]

i think its a no-brainer now in 2012, that if you want to run an s15 motor/trans/driveshaft/diff that you need the entire setup.. the speed sensor mounts on the ears of the diff cover, from what i remember.

[VinceDude]

Is this also applicable for the front subframe? I'm asking cause they looked the same to me last time i saw an s14 subframe. I'm planning powered by max suspension all around and I wanna know if i should convert my front sub to an s14 one too and run s14 arms, tie rods, tensions, lca, etc. up there or not.

[living4surf]

You can just run s14 arms on the front subframe. Just need knuckles and hubs

[greatwhitebuffalo]

or just s13 ball joints

[collegekid]

Don't forget, this can get expensive if you don't have a press. the bushings themselves aren't that bad but if you get a shop to install them its like $500 labor