S14 wing downforce test. - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

OptionZero · 01-25-2009, 03:13 PM

Ah, I understand. I forgot that the starting point is "no wing", so we really do need to look at the effect of the wing relative to where we're starting from.

Not that I'm hitting 90mph while driving to work, lol.

xs240 · 01-25-2009, 03:15 PM

That is very nice, but I have an s13, although it would be a similar result. It would be nice if we could do these kinds of tests on other wings available today... ah well

Om1kron · 01-25-2009, 03:21 PM

someone ask RedStripe to post his wing dyno in this thread. His was tested as well. I would like to see how it fairs against kognitions chassis mounted gt wing. Which I would also like to see some dyno charts for.

g-via · 01-25-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irax

isn't drag a function of downforce?

drag is a function of shear stress and area

TheArkitekt · 01-25-2009, 03:27 PM

drag is a by-product of lift. and computing drag gets a little tricky. while some wings may look like they create more drag they might not. it has a lot to do with laminar and turbulent flow and without a wind tunnel test on the wings it would be hard to determine these. it is possible however, to create more downforce then another wing while still generating the same amount of drag.

Sleepy240 · 01-25-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luftrofl

I don't see how the wing itself can go from creating downforce to creating lift. The only explanation that I can see is that its effectiveness decreases as the speed increases, possibly because it sits so low on the car.

Keep in mind that the downforce is still less than no wing, which means that it's still producing downforce, ableit not enough to counter the lift caused by the aerodynamic properties of the S14.

The Red Line that represents the s14 wing, finishes the graph BELOW its starting point at 40kph. Besides that point it finishes BELOW the neutral line on the graph, which to me would indicate it is in fact creating lift or atleast not effective enough to cancel out the effects of the chassis lift and just slowing its effects. Where as the other wings CREATE downforce and tend to stay ABOVE their starting points

**ThatGuy** · 01-25-2009, 03:34 PM

Awesome post Brian. Thanks for sharing this information.

luftrofl · 01-25-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

The Red Line that represents the s14 wing, finishes the graph BELOW its starting point at 40kph. Besides that point it finishes BELOW the neutral line on the graph, which to me would indicate it is in fact creating lift or atleast not effective enough to cancel out the effects of the chassis lift and just slowing its effects. Where as the other wings CREATE downforce and tend to stay ABOVE their starting points

The assumption that you're making is that the chassis itself does not cause lift. This is not true (see brown/gray graph of downforce which is a wingless chassis)

The graphs are not a direct representation of how much downforce the wings are causing. They are a representation of the total downforce on the car.

For the true measurement of how much downforce these wings create, you must take the level on the graph and subtract the lift created by the chassis itself.

Sleepy240 · 01-25-2009, 03:57 PM

I noted the chassis lift and if that's the way it was intended to be read then the WING is in fact not creating ENOUGH downforce to counteract the chassis lift at the higher speeds. The wing should clearly NOT have a downward turn on the graph regardless. No matter how you decide to read the graph having it drop below its starting point is a negative. Obviously its better than no wing but it doesn't stop the chassis lift so it IS not effective at that point

racepar1 · 01-25-2009, 04:05 PM

Do the results of that test REALLY surprise anyone? Of course almost all wings will make some amount of downforce and of course the cusco 3d GT wing will make the most downforce of any of the ones tested. Shit is common sense.

**ThatGuy** · 01-25-2009, 04:07 PM

Not really surprising, but nice to see anyway.

Sleepy240 · 01-25-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

Do the results of that test REALLY surprise anyone? Of course almost all wings will make some amount of downforce and of course the cusco 3d GT wing will make the most downforce of any of the ones tested. Shit is common sense.

I'm not surprised that they all created downforce however I AM surprised at how large the gap is between the top and bottom performers

luftrofl · 01-25-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

I noted the chassis lift

If you had, you never would have said that the wing caused lift.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

and if that's the way it was intended to be read then the WING is in fact not creating ENOUGH downforce to counteract the chassis lift at the higher speeds.

Yes, that is what we've been saying all this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

The wing should clearly NOT have a downward turn on the graph regardless. No matter how you decide to read the graph having it drop below its starting point is a negative. Obviously its better than no wing but it doesn't stop the chassis lift so it IS not effective at that point

Why shouldn't it? Look at how low it is on the car.

Sleepy240 · 01-25-2009, 04:27 PM

The function of the wing is to counteract the effects of chassis lift and create downforce. At the point in the graph where it takes a downward turn it is NO longer creating enough downforce to counteract the force and therefor is not doing its job. Again having a wing is clearly better than not having one, but the stock wing is clearly "flawed" as far as canceling chassis lift after a certain point of speed that is VERY attainable. And the fact that it starts its downward trend so early is a huge put off IMO

luftrofl · 01-25-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

The function of the wing is to counteract the effects of chassis lift and create downforce. At the point in the graph where it takes a downward turn it is NO longer creating enough downforce to counteract the force and therefor is not doing its job. Again having a wing is clearly better than not having one, but the stock wing is clearly "flawed" as far as canceling chassis lift after a certain point of speed that is VERY attainable. And the fact that it starts its downward trend so early is a huge put off IMO

That's true but considering that it's a wing that came stock on a road car, I'd have to say that its function was not just creating downforce- it's a compromise between function, looks, and civility. If its function was solely to create downforce, it would look very different.

LA_phantom_240 · 01-25-2009, 04:57 PM

Neat!

Makes me want to put a factory wing back on my s14.

Brian · 01-25-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

Do the results of that test REALLY surprise anyone? Of course almost all wings will make some amount of downforce and of course the cusco 3d GT wing will make the most downforce of any of the ones tested. Shit is common sense.

It SHOULD be common sense, but sadly....
it aint.

I just skimmed through 20 posts or so of nonsensical jargon jibber jabber.

Guys, shut up.

*fliprayzin240sx* · 01-25-2009, 05:51 PM

Hmm...they should have tested some Pep-boys special wing for shit and giggles.

xs240 · 01-25-2009, 05:59 PM

AEROMOTIONS

I'm special cause the above is special

Otto347 · 01-25-2009, 07:01 PM

Nice thread sir!

racepar1 · 01-25-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleepy240

I'm not surprised that they all created downforce however I AM surprised at how large the gap is between the top and bottom performers

The 3d GT wing was designed to create a drastic amount of downforce. It doesn't surprise me at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

It SHOULD be common sense, but sadly....
it aint.

I just skimmed through 20 posts or so of nonsensical jargon jibber jabber.

Guys, shut up.

I REALLY don't feel like putting on an areodynamics 101 class here.

Def · 01-25-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

I REALLY don't feel like putting on an areodynamics 101 class here.

I don't even think we'd be up to the 101 level with the dumbshit responses I've seen in this thread. More like the 001 remedial level, with having to curve the tests heavily.

HyperTek · 01-25-2009, 08:41 PM

you should watermark those before some ebay assholes try to claim their wings have the same output lol

!Zar! · 01-25-2009, 08:48 PM

An effective wing is one that is flush with the roof line.

Just a statement by me.

Brian · 01-25-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperTek

you should watermark those before some ebay assholes try to claim their wings have the same output lol

nah, it's 100% okay for companies to rip off designs and sell them. Stealing is "okay".

Where have you been?

vodka2 · 01-25-2009, 08:53 PM

cusco gt wins
stock fails hard.

!Zar! · 01-25-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

nah, it's 100% okay for companies to rip off designs and sell them. Stealing is "okay".

Where have you been?

Only if you own a 240.

murda-c · 01-25-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

nah, it's 100% okay for companies to rip off designs and sell them. Stealing is "okay".

Where have you been?

Hey man if the companies cared they'd sue...it's not as if our society is becoming overly litigious.

Brian · 01-25-2009, 09:04 PM

Off topic thread.

fuck it.

Locked.

01-25-2009, 03:21 PM	#33
Om1kron Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Granada Hills, CA Age: 43 Posts: 6,990 Trader Rating: (15) Feedback Score: 15 reviews	someone ask RedStripe to post his wing dyno in this thread. His was tested as well. I would like to see how it fairs against kognitions chassis mounted gt wing. Which I would also like to see some dyno charts for. __________________ Wayne Edwards https://om1kron.blogspot.com

01-25-2009, 03:34 PM	#37
ThatGuy Admin Asshole Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Retired Age: 44 Posts: 20,394 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: ThatGuy Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Awesome post Brian. Thanks for sharing this information. __________________ "Speak softly,..." -Pres. Teddy Roosevelt "Be polite, be professional, ..." -Gen. James Mattis

01-25-2009, 04:07 PM	#41
ThatGuy Admin Asshole Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Retired Age: 44 Posts: 20,394 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: ThatGuy Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Not really surprising, but nice to see anyway. __________________ "Speak softly,..." -Pres. Teddy Roosevelt "Be polite, be professional, ..." -Gen. James Mattis

01-25-2009, 05:51 PM	#48
fliprayzin240sx Man w/ CTSV & a Car Seat Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 17,998 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: fliprayzin240sx Feedback Score: 19 reviews	Hmm...they should have tested some Pep-boys special wing for shit and giggles. __________________ If you think Zilvia has too many assholes... CLICK HERE!!!

01-25-2009, 08:41 PM	#53
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,224 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	you should watermark those before some ebay assholes try to claim their wings have the same output lol __________________ Keep it Classy

01-25-2009, 03:13 PM	#31
OptionZero Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Norcal Age: 40 Posts: 6,262 Trader Rating: (2) Rides Gallery: OptionZero Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Ah, I understand. I forgot that the starting point is "no wing", so we really do need to look at the effect of the wing relative to where we're starting from. Not that I'm hitting 90mph while driving to work, lol.

01-25-2009, 03:15 PM	#32
xs240 BANNED Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: . Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	That is very nice, but I have an s13, although it would be a similar result. It would be nice if we could do these kinds of tests on other wings available today... ah well

01-25-2009, 03:27 PM	#35
TheArkitekt Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: merika...fuck yeah Posts: 296 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	drag is a by-product of lift. and computing drag gets a little tricky. while some wings may look like they create more drag they might not. it has a lot to do with laminar and turbulent flow and without a wind tunnel test on the wings it would be hard to determine these. it is possible however, to create more downforce then another wing while still generating the same amount of drag.

01-25-2009, 03:57 PM	#39
Sleepy240 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Reading, PA Age: 38 Posts: 780 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I noted the chassis lift and if that's the way it was intended to be read then the WING is in fact not creating ENOUGH downforce to counteract the chassis lift at the higher speeds. The wing should clearly NOT have a downward turn on the graph regardless. No matter how you decide to read the graph having it drop below its starting point is a negative. Obviously its better than no wing but it doesn't stop the chassis lift so it IS not effective at that point

01-25-2009, 04:05 PM	#40
racepar1 Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 41 Posts: 9,006 Trader Rating: (106) Rides Gallery: racepar1 Feedback Score: 106 reviews	Do the results of that test REALLY surprise anyone? Of course almost all wings will make some amount of downforce and of course the cusco 3d GT wing will make the most downforce of any of the ones tested. Shit is common sense.

01-25-2009, 04:27 PM	#44
Sleepy240 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Reading, PA Age: 38 Posts: 780 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The function of the wing is to counteract the effects of chassis lift and create downforce. At the point in the graph where it takes a downward turn it is NO longer creating enough downforce to counteract the force and therefor is not doing its job. Again having a wing is clearly better than not having one, but the stock wing is clearly "flawed" as far as canceling chassis lift after a certain point of speed that is VERY attainable. And the fact that it starts its downward trend so early is a huge put off IMO

01-25-2009, 05:59 PM	#49
xs240 BANNED Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: . Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	AEROMOTIONS I'm special cause the above is special

01-25-2009, 07:01 PM	#50
Otto347 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Upstate NY Age: 44 Posts: 1,699 Trader Rating: (15) Feedback Score: 15 reviews	Nice thread sir!

01-25-2009, 08:48 PM	#54
!Zar! Post Whore! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,579 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	An effective wing is one that is flush with the roof line. Just a statement by me. __________________

01-25-2009, 08:53 PM	#56
vodka2 BANNED Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Los angeles Posts: 1,177 Trader Rating: (18) Feedback Score: 18 reviews	cusco gt wins stock fails hard.

01-25-2009, 09:04 PM	#59
Brian Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: usa Posts: 12,840 Trader Rating: (54) Rides Gallery: Brian Feedback Score: 54 reviews	Off topic thread. fuck it. Locked. __________________ http://bhworld.wordpress.com/