This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Motary

THose look insanely heavy! I remember when I made my single piece arms that about 65% of the original mass was machined off after they had been laser cut. The tension side tubing looks fine, stress is mainly on the rod end body.

I had the same initial thought. Looks like the arm is made from either 1/2" or 3/4" Steel plate, which seems like WAY overkill and a good way to add a bunch of unnecessary mass - although, if it were pocketed it probably wouldn't be so bad.

Also, the welds look like they've got little to no penetration in some spots.... which could have something to do with amount of heat you'd need to pump into plate that thick to get a decent weld.

[Chris28]

Jonnie, I broke a pair of modified oem arms. I ripped the bung for the spherical bearing right out of the LCA. Granted it wasn't properly supported, but I'm still not sure if I want to risk breaking another one in the same manner.

I agree with the the comments about the orange LCA, all I know is that it's some guy with access to a laser cutter. No idea if there's any FEA to show for it, but I kind of doubt it.

[Matej]

Are there any pictures or videos that demonstrate how much correction any of the rear knuckle options actually provide?

It would be neat to see photographs of a car significantly lowered with all stock rear links and stock knuckles, and then pictures of the same car with the coilovers set at the same height, but with the aftermarket knuckles installed, such as the PSM or Driftworks ones.

I am mainly curious to see how effective the toe and camber gain reduction is.

[Jonnie Fraz]

Originally Posted by Chris28

Jonnie, I broke a pair of modified oem arms. I ripped the bung for the spherical bearing right out of the LCA. Granted it wasn't properly supported, but I'm still not sure if I want to risk breaking another one in the same manner.

I agree with the the comments about the orange LCA, all I know is that it's some guy with access to a laser cutter. No idea if there's any FEA to show for it, but I kind of doubt it.

Wow man...Sorry to hear that. I will have to post up some pics of the ones I am working on.
My friend had been running these arms for three seasons I believe. The tire wall ended the one, and I chatted with Alex and he does not have any parts for the Battle Version weld in adjusters any more. If he did I would have replaced the adjuster and the heim and called it good.
As far as the orange ones they look like several that are out on the market, but a much heavier version. The design has merit, but I am not sold on the fab work.
I have been a welder fabricator longer than I haven't been and I am very cautious about building suspension parts.

[az_240]

Originally Posted by Matej

Are there any pictures or videos that demonstrate how much correction any of the rear knuckle options actually provide?

It would be neat to see photographs of a car significantly lowered with all stock rear links and stock knuckles, and then pictures of the same car with the coilovers set at the same height, but with the aftermarket knuckles installed, such as the PSM or Driftworks ones.
.

^There used to be some pics of this on the first page but they're gone now : /

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by Matej

Are there any pictures or videos that demonstrate how much correction any of the rear knuckle options actually provide?

It would be neat to see photographs of a car significantly lowered with all stock rear links and stock knuckles, and then pictures of the same car with the coilovers set at the same height, but with the aftermarket knuckles installed, such as the PSM or Driftworks ones.

I am mainly curious to see how effective the toe and camber gain reduction is.

I found some of the PSM ones that was posted a while back.

Originally Posted by travypoo

installed my parts shop max rear knuckles today. took a couple before and after shots. thoughts?

[Chris28]

Originally Posted by Jonnie Fraz

Wow man...Sorry to hear that. I will have to post up some pics of the ones I am working on.
My friend had been running these arms for three seasons I believe. The tire wall ended the one, and I chatted with Alex and he does not have any parts for the Battle Version weld in adjusters any more. If he did I would have replaced the adjuster and the heim and called it good.
As far as the orange ones they look like several that are out on the market, but a much heavier version. The design has merit, but I am not sold on the fab work.
I have been a welder fabricator longer than I haven't been and I am very cautious about building suspension parts.

I'd really like to see them to get a better idea of how to support the rod end. Mine lasted 3 events and probably around 1000 street miles, I'm glad it broke on track and not on the interstate driving to or from the event. This is how mine were done, this pair is a friends but done the exact same way. Plan is to replace the "end box plate" with 1/4" steel and brace the bung to the corners of the plate with 1/8" triangles.



Another option is this, but these large chunks of steel are $140 a piece.

[sviellvoicae]

So I've read over this thread and read the do's and donts and here is what I've decided to run. Pbm drop knuckles, pbm inner tie rods, moog outters, extended 25mm stock flca's, and rack relocation. Anyone see any issues with this?

[Motary]

LOL

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by sviellvoicae

So I've read over this thread and read the do's and donts and here is what I've decided to run. Pbm drop knuckles, pbm inner tie rods, moog outters, extended 25mm stock flca's, and rack relocation. Anyone see any issues with this?

PBM front knuckles are not drop knuckles, they are roll center correction knuckles.

[Mr_Flamenco]

is there any of PBM guys here? its hard to get them through the e-mails

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by Motary

LOL

What the devil? hahaha.

Originally Posted by Mr_Flamenco

is there any of PBM guys here? its hard to get them through the e-mails

Dan is in here off and on.

[DC Dan MAX USA]

[email protected] or if you message me in facebook from the PARTS SHOP MAX USA page It will get sent directly to my mobile phone. Im often on FB on and off regular business hours.

Originally Posted by Matej

Are there any pictures or videos that demonstrate how much correction any of the rear knuckle options actually provide?
I am mainly curious to see how effective the toe and camber gain reduction is.

The proof is in the tire. You can adjust to 0 camber in the rear on stock knuckles and still wear the inside of the tire.
After the Parts Shop MAX drop knuckle is installed at the same setting, there is perfectly even tire wear.

Some of this control over the rear tire is the drop and some of it is from having all spherical bearing joints. Dual calipers mounts are a plus too.

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by DC Dan MAX USA

[email protected] or if you message me in facebook from the PARTS SHOP MAX USA page It will get sent directly to my mobile phone. Im often on FB on and off regular business hours.



The proof is in the tire. You can adjust to 0 camber in the rear on stock knuckles and still wear the inside of the tire.
After the Parts Shop MAX drop knuckle is installed at the same setting, there is perfectly even tire wear.

Some of this control over the rear tire is the drop and some of it is from having all spherical bearing joints. Dual calipers mounts are a plus too.

any plans on making a front drop knuckle?

[DC Dan MAX USA]

Thats just a technicality of what to call it, I think it needs to lower the car to be called a drop knuckle.

We have made the ultimate front knuckles already & we have no plans to move the relationship between the coilover mount and the spindle, therefore it does not lower the car. We dropped the lower points 45mm for roll center on our forged super angle front knuckles.
Because coil over adjustments have no problem making the car low enough there was no need to make the knuckle drop the ride height any farther.

[kunt_masha]

which i30/maxima inners is everyone running? I snagged a few to do a quick comparison and it looks like the sizes vary depending on the generation.

[Chris28]

Originally Posted by Motary

Here's the early model look on the tension rod I would like to manufacture and sell:



Currently it is not with a double adjuster, but it there is demand it will be introduced.

All suggestions and ideas are welcome

For pricetag, I am thinking 150 USD as intro price

I've decided to stick with an OEM flca, so I'm extremely interested in these. If you decide to make a prototype or do an early run I'll gladly purchase a set

[Jonnie Fraz]

Originally Posted by Chris28

I'd really like to see them to get a better idea of how to support the rod end. Mine lasted 3 events and probably around 1000 street miles, I'm glad it broke on track and not on the interstate driving to or from the event. This is how mine were done, this pair is a friends but done the exact same way. Plan is to replace the "end box plate" with 1/4" steel and brace the bung to the corners of the plate with 1/8" triangles.



Another option is this, but these large chunks of steel are $140 a piece.

Chris,
I finished up my buddies yesterday, and I will try to get some pics today. Originally he was using the Battle Version weld in adjusters, but the tire wall ended the one. I had to drill the threads out so I could use the threaded bung. Basically you could use a piece of DOM that fits the bung about three inches long weld that inside the arm and plate the end like you did before.
He runs Corr integration TC rods for tire clearance. His limiting factors now are the tie rod buckles and the sway bar.

[Motary]

Originally Posted by Chris28

I've decided to stick with an OEM flca, so I'm extremely interested in these. If you decide to make a prototype or do an early run I'll gladly purchase a set

Added to my list

[InsTanCeZ]

Hey Dan, do the dual Z32 caliper drop knuckles also work with stock single 240sx rear calipers, or would we have to get the original drop knuckle design?

[DC Dan MAX USA]

You have two choices in rear knuckles.

1. OEM foot brake & Wilwood hand brake caliper on OEM disc type
In stock now

2. Dual Z32 caliper with Z32 disc type
In stock in 3 weeks

You can use the stock disc and ONE stock caliper with either type

[InsTanCeZ]

Okay cool, also, I'm not sure if anyone has answered this already, but is it true that for every 5mm you extend the FLCAs you gain 1 degree of more negative camber? So for instance if your tophats were set at 0, and you extended your FLCAs 25mm, you'd have -5 degrees of camber, right? If that's true, how do people extend their FLCAs like 40mm or more without getting crazy amounts of negative camber? Also, how far do the PSM FLCAs extend, and if you extend them all the way, how do you prevent getting crazy negative camber? Especially since there is 2 degrees built in at the knuckle with your coilovers.

[az_240]

delete .

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by InsTanCeZ

Okay cool, also, I'm not sure if anyone has answered this already, but is it true that for every 5mm you extend the FLCAs you gain 1 degree of more negative camber? So for instance if your tophats were set at 0, and you extended your FLCAs 25mm, you'd have -5 degrees of camber, right? If that's true, how do people extend their FLCAs like 40mm or more without getting crazy amounts of negative camber? Also, how far do the PSM FLCAs extend, and if you extend them all the way? How do you prevent getting crazy negative camber? Especially since there is 2 degrees built in at the knuckle with your coilovers.

I'm not sure if there's a linear conversion for Camber VS. LCA length since there are a handful of other factors at play. Someone else may know it, or have the models to calculate it.

In any case, dialing out extreme negative camber uses the same methods as dialing it in, but in reverse (if that makes any sense.) You should have at least 35-50mm of adjustment travel at your top hats which can be used one to one with lengthening the LCA, meaning that with all other things constant, if you extend the LCA 5mm, and adjust the upper strut pivot the same 5mm your camber should not change.

If your coil-overs have 2 degrees of negative camber built into the lower mount, you can either slot the hole to bring the knuckle back to zero, or flip the bracket over to make it biased towards 2 degrees of positive. Some coil-overs like Fortune auto have a neat insert for the upper hole that essentially is a 4 position eccentric washer that adjusts the angle of the knuckle relative to the lower mount. It's intended to be used for wheel to coil-over clearance, but could also be used for camber adjustment.

Also, I have PBM LCA's front and rear on my S13, if I have a chance, I'll measure the range this weekend.

[InsTanCeZ]

Okay, cool. Thanks. I've heard the PBM LCAs can go shorter than OEM as well, so I guess you'd have to factor that in when measuring how much longer they can be compared to the OEM LCAs.

[Motary]

Looking at the design of the rear upright I wouldnt be surprised if it was bent after some handbrake uses

[DC Dan MAX USA]

Any welded structure is subject to some variation from one part to the next even out of the same jig made by the same welding technician.

Maybe the MAX rear knuckle is not as much of a nut swinger magnet as some unreleased CNC billet projects but it has dramatically increased the performance of many drift machines at a reasonable price for a long time.

[Motary]

I placed some lines in the arms to find the instant center of your knuckles that define camber gain, which is indeed much better than stock. Did you guys also correct bumpsteer?

[DC Dan MAX USA]

Yes, You must use OEM length outer tie rod ends.

[Motary]

Sorry for confusing you, but I was talking about the rear knuckle