This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[Mr_Flamenco]

Originally Posted by Silvi

Which inner tie rod is recommended for those who extended their LCA and now the stock are too short?
Im using Altima tie rods, they are bit longer than the stock ones but i'm almost maximized them and it's kinda dangerous.

good question I am also interested to know

[Drift_FX]

Originally Posted by Silvi

Which inner tie rod is recommended for those who extended their LCA and now the stock are too short?
Im using Altima tie rods, they are bit longer than the stock ones but i'm almost maximized them and it's kinda dangerous.

i use PBM s14 style tie rods... work great for me....

[az_240]

There is a list of tie rod lengths on the first page.

[IThaJokaI]

Originally Posted by Matej

Indeed, but the length of the S13 rear damper itself is what becomes the hindrance when trying to go really low with most S13 coilovers. Thus many people end up maxing the rears out and/or using shorter springs, which is not necessarily good for the lifespan of the damper, nor will it perform at its potential.
I suppose one way to remedy this is to raise the rear strut towers, such as C's Garage did.

Do the aftermarket rear knuckle options space the bottom shock mounting point lower? Or would that have an adverse effect on something else?

If you're looking to lower the rear without messing with spring height or preload, just find another pair of front shocks that match your coilovers. 75% of the coilovers I have seen have shorter front struts which would allow you to lower it more just using the lower mount.

[Matej]

Originally Posted by IThaJokaI

If you're looking to lower the rear without messing with spring height or preload, just find another pair of front shocks that match your coilovers. 75% of the coilovers I have seen have shorter front struts which would allow you to lower it more just using the lower mount.

Most Miata and FD3S rear coilovers actually have the same or very similar valving as S13 rears (depending on how 'personalized' the manufacturer makes each coilover), while being shorter.
Though to really take advantage of this, a shorter lower mount would also be convenient, in which case the Z32/R32 front mount could be used.
Or the generic S13 rear lower mount design could be rethought.

And I am curious if the aftermarket rear knuckles do anything with the the shock mount position as well.

[Razi]

From my understanding, since they basically raise the position of your wheel hub, you'll be lower at the same coilover setting.

[808drft]

Originally Posted by Matej

Has anyone attempted using R32/Z32 front coilovers as S13 rears? It looks like they could be a direct fit, as long as the S13 top mounts are used.
It could be a possible way to help retain some rear suspension travel on a low car, though I am trying to find out how different the valving is.

I have done this before. When the coilover was halfway (single adjustable) the car was was 2in off the ground. I could of laid frame if I wanted to with 215/45/17. I have since installed ksport s13 coils cuz the z32 coils blew (got them used)

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by Matej

Indeed, but the length of the S13 rear damper itself is what becomes the hindrance when trying to go really low with most S13 coilovers. Thus many people end up maxing the rears out and/or using shorter springs, which is not necessarily good for the lifespan of the damper, nor will it perform at its potential.
I suppose one way to remedy this is to raise the rear strut towers, such as C's Garage did.

Use S14 rear coilovers. They fit and go (much) lower. Found it the bad way, when i received S14 rears instead of S13.

[Mr_Flamenco]

guys one more question,
If I dont want to make the wise fab kit to go all the way to 65 degrees, how would that be possible,,
meaning i want the max lock to be at 50-55, which is more than enough I believe.

[boost addict]

Originally Posted by Croustibat

Use S14 rear coilovers. They fit and go (much) lower. Found it the bad way, when i received S14 rears instead of S13.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't s14 rear coils a lot longer?

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Razi

From my understanding, since they basically raise the position of your wheel hub, you'll be lower at the same coilover setting.

Correct.

When I installed PBM's drop knuckles on my S13, I had to lengthen my coils about an inch or so to keep the same ride height.

Originally Posted by boost addict

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't s14 rear coils a lot longer?

AFAIK, most/all S14 rear Coils are longer than S13 coils. There's a certain point where the overall lengths will cross over, with the lowest S14 setting being usable on an S13, but it's not optimized by any means.

[IThaJokaI]

Originally Posted by Croustibat

Use S14 rear coilovers. They fit and go (much) lower. Found it the bad way, when i received S14 rears instead of S13.

Originally Posted by boost addict

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't s14 rear coils a lot longer?

Yes s14 rear coilovers are atleast 2" longer, and that is the shock length not the mount height.

Although s14 rear lower mounts are the same height as z32/r32 front mounts, same bushing size too.

[boost addict]

So if they're longer then they wouldn't go lower like croustibat was saying? Thats all Im trying to get at

[JohanM]

from this weekend, at CFRC for the summerslide event

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by boost addict

So if they're longer then they wouldn't go lower like croustibat was saying? Thats all Im trying to get at

I know what you're saying and you're right, although it's kind of a weird thing to think about (it's hurting my brain as I try to mentally picture this).

S14 coils are longer, meaning that at a certain point, they'd be your limiting factor as far as ride height is concerned. With that being said, there should be/is some over lap between S13 and S14 coils as far as adjustment is concerned, so if you were in that over lap distance, then you could, in theory, run either without negatively effecting ride height - but there's a Bonus.

Figure if an S13 strut has X" of travel, and an S14 strut has X" + 2" of travel, then you would gain the difference in travel by switching to S14 struts, and be as low as you were previously. (Though, with that being said, some S13/S14 rear coils use the same strut depending on the manufacturer, and the only difference is the lower mount like Fortune auto's stuff.)

I think that all makes sense, but then again, I'm half stupid most of the time.

[IThaJokaI]

Originally Posted by thefro526

I know what you're saying and you're right, although it's kind of a weird thing to think about (it's hurting my brain as I try to mentally picture this).

S14 coils are longer, meaning that at a certain point, they'd be your limiting factor as far as ride height is concerned. With that being said, there should be/is some over lap between S13 and S14 coils as far as adjustment is concerned, so if you were in that over lap distance, then you could, in theory, run either without negatively effecting ride height - but there's a Bonus.

Figure if an S13 strut has X" of travel, and an S14 strut has X" + 2" of travel, then you would gain the difference in travel by switching to S14 struts, and be as low as you were previously. (Though, with that being said, some S13/S14 rear coils use the same strut depending on the manufacturer, and the only difference is the lower mount like Fortune auto's stuff.)

I think that all makes sense, but then again, I'm half stupid most of the time.

Its not the travel that changes, most springs are the same size. Its the actual shock insert that is 2" longer. So what you're saying doesn't really apply.

And i have FAs on my s14, the rear struts ARE longer than s13 rears, just like almost every other coilover I have seen.

[blusx]

Ok just installed custom knucles and tierods and for some reason now i got alot of woble in the steering wheel is that normal? I do feel the differance when turning radius wise but going strait it has a very distinct woble all i have is custom knucles tein inners and outters ,stock flca stock rack is it my steering rack going out??? And everything is tied double checked

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by Wadacolor

from this weekend, at CFRC for the summerslide event

This is rad, what knuckles, PSM? I'd like to use this in the first post. Speaking of which, the pictures are back up, I need to add some more things still though.

Originally Posted by blusx

Ok just installed custom knucles and tierods and for some reason now i got alot of woble in the steering wheel is that normal? I do feel the differance when turning radius wise but going strait it has a very distinct woble all i have is custom knucles tein inners and outters ,stock flca stock rack is it my steering rack going out??? And everything is tied double checked

If you checked everything and it's all tight (wheels, tie rods, ball joints, bushings, etc) it sounds like your steering rack is dying.

[derass]

Can we start compiling front wheel widths and offsets that work with modified knuckles and a factory design tension rod and control arm setup? Excluding bent / relocated inward tension rods and 1 piece LCA's.

My 17x9 +20 do not clear the tension rod. Recently posted, 17x9 -32 does, and earlier in the thread, 17x7.5 +8.

I am looking to change to 17x8 but not sure of what offset will be ideal.

[jaysgottaredtop]

Originally Posted by Silvi

Which inner tie rod is recommended for those who extended their LCA and now the stock are too short?
Im using Altima tie rods, they are bit longer than the stock ones but i'm almost maximized them and it's kinda dangerous.

i'm using Maxima/I30 inners and S14 outers with my LCAs extended 56mm and PBM drop knuckles. those inners are reeeeeeally long.

[Croustibat]

Originally Posted by IThaJokaI

[...]
And i have FAs on my s14, the rear struts ARE longer than s13 rears, just like almost every other coilover I have seen.

I wonder where i went wrong then ... To get the minimum ride height that allows me to go over speed bumps, my rear coilovers are maxed...i cant get them higher. When i asked the seller, he told me there was a mistake and he sent me S14 rear coilovers ? I never bothered to check more than that, and i never returned them seeing it did fit my needs.

ah well. Waiting for some FA500 with swifts so that wont be a problem soon.

[JohanM]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

This is rad, what knuckles, PSM? I'd like to use this in the first post. Speaking of which, the pictures are back up, I need to add some more things still though.

yeah PSM knuckles, ikeya inners with 7mm spacers, PSM eccentric rack spacers, stock s14 outters, modified godspeed lca, relocated tension rod location on lca, and modified furtune auto tension rod. you can you ahead and use the pic if you want.

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by Wadacolor

yeah PBM knuckles, ikeya inners with 7mm spacers, stock s14 outters, modified godspeed lca, relocated tension rod location on lca, and modified furtune auto tension rod. you can you ahead and use the pic if you want.

The newer forged pro one? How was the fitment?

So is there any real down side to running drop knuckles?

How much preload do you guys typically run on your springs?

[jaysgottaredtop]

Originally Posted by dudermagee

So is there any real down side to running drop knuckles?

as a general rule of thumb, no; there are way too many advantages to bother considering whatever negligible decrements might be involved.

level LCAs.
level tie rods.
decreased ackermann.
lots of low.
lots of angle.
lots of $wag.

[JohanM]

Originally Posted by dudermagee

The newer forged pro one? How was the fitment?


How much preload do you guys typically run on your springs?

these one are stock modified roll center knuckles

im dont have any preload

[PoorMans180SX]

Hold up guys, PSM knuckles aren't drop knuckles, they are roll center correction knuckles. That's going to get confusing for some people if they don't know the difference.

Drop knuckles lower the car.

Roll center correction knuckles do not.

Some kits are a combo of both.

[JohanM]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Hold up guys, PSM knuckles aren't drop knuckles, they are roll center correction knuckles. That's going to get confusing for some people if they don't know the difference.

Drop knuckles lower the car.

Roll center correction knuckles do not.

Some kits are a combo of both.

thanks for the clarification lol, always get them 2 mix up.

[dudermagee]

Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX

Hold up guys, PSM knuckles aren't drop knuckles, they are roll center correction knuckles. That's going to get confusing for some people if they don't know the difference.

Drop knuckles lower the car.

Roll center correction knuckles do not.

Some kits are a combo of both.

Ah number 5 of the first post makes that a bit confusing then.

I had thought they were the same thing.

So what would be the advantage of one over the other?

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by dudermagee

Ah number 5 of the first post makes that a bit confusing then.

I had thought they were the same thing.

So what would be the advantage of one over the other?

I edited number five for clarity. The advantage to drop knuckles is that you don't need super-short coilovers if you want to really slam the car. Other than that they provide the same performance as roll center correction knuckles.

Obviously for the rear, there aren't really any kits that aren't drop knuckles, as you can't move the rear roll center around too much without moving all the arms together.

[dudermagee]

So if I were to get the PBM knuckles, my ride height would be unaffected, but my roll center would be changed by 45mm.

Where if I got the DW ones, my ride would drop about 1 3/4 inches AND change my roll center by 45mm.