This is the roll center, suspension pickup, and steering angle modification thread.

[Z33dori]

all that for 600?

[travypoo]

The Abercrombie stuff is great. I have the modified front subframe in my car. My buddy has the knuckles and outer rod ends as well. Great quality!

[Matej]

Since people can cut and weld knuckles for altering suspension behavior and steering, why not also mod the caliper mounts to make some giant brake setup a bolt-on affair?

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Matej

Since people can cut and weld knuckles for altering suspension behavior and steering, why not also mod the caliper mounts to make some giant brake setup a bolt-on affair?

What giant brakes would you be talking about? Not that it's not a good/viable idea, just doesn't seem to make much sense when you can bolt on Z32/R32/R33 brakes which are more than large enough, and if not, you can get SE-R Brembos...

[Guilty1s]

Originally Posted by Matej

Since people can cut and weld knuckles for altering suspension behavior and steering, why not also mod the caliper mounts to make some giant brake setup a bolt-on affair?

I'm sure some people do, but probably not the common s owner. It is something that changes on X,Y and Z, axis and is something that has to be pretty precise and strong.

There is no "correct position" to weld your arms. It has to do with preference. It also doesn't have to be precise.... even yes... but the parts you hook up to it are adjustable. With caliper mounts, only a few ways to do it right.

[My$800S14]

something like tacoma 6 pots would be pretty BA, for what he is talking about

[My$800S14]

hey swift mini, it took me forever to find the time to respond to our conversation sorry, ive been busy, but the files attached are pertinent to big Tractors but ackerman physics is relevant across the board, it appears that track width would not actually effect the ackerman, it would change the desired ackerman though, but it seems that the overall length of the rack, and tie rods, does somehow effect ackerman, i really dont at all understand how though to be honest, but after rereading my book and stuff it makes some more sense now, still dont fully understand how it effects it so much, the angle of the tie rod vertically is understandable, but the overall length of the lca is still hard for me to completely grasp, i am working on porbab ly getting the pbm knucks, and seeing how i like them, im sure they will be awesome, but im also concidering the whole 0 ackerman thing, and i am very tempted to fab my own knuckle for 0 ackerman...hmmm decisions, i do have 2 cars afterall, im thinking of using the pbm knucks on the daily, since it has ackerman and will likely be more road friendly, with also extending some s13 lca's 25mm, and then making a knuckle similar to the pbm joint, but with zero ackerman for the race car, and extending s14lca's 25mm, and seeing how they compare also it would be better for me to use some proffesional knuckles on a car that i take on the highway, and drive to work, and use some that i am making for the car that gets driven 3 miles to the track every once in a while, i would imagine if the knuckles dont snap in half the first time i come in backwards, then i will be pretty good, i plan on getting the knuckles that i make magnaflux tested too. I do fear that 25mm extended s14 lca's will be overkilll on my 13, but i have already extended them, and that should guarantee that i do not have any tension rod clearance issues, i will probably have issues with the back of my wheel well before the tension rod, once i get everything done i can see if it is overkill or not and for some reason it wont let me attach pictures, so i will do it when my connection is not beeing garbage

[Mooch]

Did some searching through the thread/forum. Maybe I'm searching the wrong keywords, dunno. With the Maverick Dual-Caliper kit, it it essentially spaces out the axle, what's the big modification to gain that back? I thought i read that z32 axles are longer and would require switching everything out to that?

A link to an article would be awesome. Thanks guys!

[Guilty1s]

Originally Posted by Mooch

Did some searching through the thread/forum. Maybe I'm searching the wrong keywords, dunno. With the Maverick Dual-Caliper kit, it it essentially spaces out the axle, what's the big modification to gain that back? I thought i read that z32 axles are longer and would require switching everything out to that?

A link to an article would be awesome. Thanks guys!

It puts a 7mm plate inbetween the knuckle and the bearing/hub. The stock axles can handle the difference. No need to change it.

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by My$800S14

hey swift mini, it took me forever to find the time to respond to our conversation sorry, ive been busy, but the files attached are pertinent to big Tractors but ackerman physics is relevant across the board, it appears that track width would not actually effect the ackerman, it would change the desired ackerman though, but it seems that the overall length of the rack, and tie rods, does somehow effect ackerman, i really dont at all understand how though to be honest, but after rereading my book and stuff it makes some more sense now, still dont fully understand how it effects it so much, the angle of the tie rod vertically is understandable, but the overall length of the lca is still hard for me to completely grasp, i am working on porbab ly getting the pbm knucks, and seeing how i like them, im sure they will be awesome, but im also concidering the whole 0 ackerman thing, and i am very tempted to fab my own knuckle for 0 ackerman...hmmm decisions, i do have 2 cars afterall, im thinking of using the pbm knucks on the daily, since it has ackerman and will likely be more road friendly, with also extending some s13 lca's 25mm, and then making a knuckle similar to the pbm joint, but with zero ackerman for the race car, and extending s14lca's 25mm, and seeing how they compare also it would be better for me to use some proffesional knuckles on a car that i take on the highway, and drive to work, and use some that i am making for the car that gets driven 3 miles to the track every once in a while, i would imagine if the knuckles dont snap in half the first time i come in backwards, then i will be pretty good, i plan on getting the knuckles that i make magnaflux tested too. I do fear that 25mm extended s14 lca's will be overkilll on my 13, but i have already extended them, and that should guarantee that i do not have any tension rod clearance issues, i will probably have issues with the back of my wheel well before the tension rod, once i get everything done i can see if it is overkill or not and for some reason it wont let me attach pictures, so i will do it when my connection is not beeing garbage

interesting, i think iam gonna have to do some solid works modelling to check it all out properly

[swiftmini]

here is a pic of my car drifting, it slides so flat The pic has been photoshopped but the car and angle are legit, you may have seen the pic shared about on facebook

[mikerbike]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

The pic has been photoshopped

I KNEW IT! But why would anyone go through the trouble to photoshop a fence in the background? I almost didn't even notice it.

What rear tires were you using?

[GKTECH]

Here's a graphic overlay that we put together of the 4 different steering arm options that we've got for our billet knuckles.



Blue = Standard steering arm
Red = Extreme steering arm
Pink = JP Special steering arm
Green = Zero Ackerman steering arm

An overview of the different steering arms:
- Standard steering arms are exactly that, they're in the same position as the standard steering arms and are ideal for circuit/track racers or non drift cars that aren't after extreme steering angle
- Extreme steering arms feature; the fastest turninng/transitions of all 4 arms, gives the most inside wheel lock (+12 degrees over factory steering arm), has the most Ackermann effect of all the arms.
NOTE: offset steering rack extenders or steering rack relocation required (we sell offset steering rack extenders for $69 if ordered at the time you're ordering the knuckles)
- JP Special steering arms feature; similar turning speed to the standard steering arm, -4 degrees of lock (yes, slightly less steering lock from the arm itself), very linear response, even at extreme lock angles, - less Ackermann effect than standard or extreme steering arms
- Zero ackerman steering arms feature; - keeps the wheels pointing in the same direction at all steer angles (ie no Ackermann effect), similar turning speed to the extreme steering arm, +3 degrees of steering lock from inside wheel and +13 degrees of lock from outside wheel, less tendency for the tie rod on the inside wheel to overcentre, meaning no need for offset rack spacers or rack relocation, gives the most outside wheel lock (assuming it doesn’t hit the castor rod), reduces tyre scrubbing and avoids washing off speed mid-drift

[articdragon192]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

That is a pretty crazy bolt on :/
Tdp have posted pics of theyre prototype r chassis knuckles. Look them up on facebook

Pretty much the only option Z32s have, in which we can retain the multilink front, since the front knuckles are aluminum. I like it! Doesn't mess with the KPI either.

[swiftmini]

I still think modded geomasters is a much better option





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This is what i wanted to do on my r32 but alot of people talked me out of it and convinced me that mac strut swap was a better option. Too be honest though iam very happy with my mac strut swap in my r32. It literally drives itself

[TTnickdizzle]

That looks sick ^ where did you find those pics i'd like to contact the owner and hear his opinions on the mod.

I want to do something silmilar if its sucessfull if not i'm thinking about going the macpherson route. All the people i hear of going to a macphersion setup have no regretes.

[Motary]

Swiftmini - you still have a lot of camber change, the trailing wheel has massive negative camber with leading wheel having a little positive camber, you should try reducing KPI and perhaps caster. It will increase scrub, but this isn't a grocery getter anyway

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by TTnickdizzle

That looks sick ^ where did you find those pics i'd like to contact the owner and hear his opinions on the mod.

I want to do something silmilar if its sucessfull if not i'm thinking about going the macpherson route. All the people i hear of going to a macphersion setup have no regretes.

It was a guy on driftworks, ill dig up a link

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by Motary

Swiftmini - you still have a lot of camber change, the trailing wheel has massive negative camber with leading wheel having a little positive camber, you should try reducing KPI and perhaps caster. It will increase scrub, but this isn't a grocery getter anyway

Iam running stupid amount of static camber at the moment. As soon as i can get the front bolt on spacers off ill be able to run less static camber. I have rotated my top mounts so itll reduce in caster at the same time as winding off the camber. I have already reduced the kpi a little.

But to be honest, i actually really like the way it drives. I only noticed lack of front end grip in bad weather with standing water. i have a vid, ill find it

[swiftmini]

odc finals at pembrey very slippery on Vimeo

[mikerbike]

I was noticing that after my outer tie rod hit my control arm, I stil had ~10mm or rack travel left without rack spacers, and seemed to still be quite far from overcentering. So I cut some stuff and welded some stuff. You can see the second layer of steer I added inside the arm for more support. I'm not sure if I would do that again.




I removed my rack and haven't installed it yet, but with 17mm more rack travel, I'm pretty sure the control arm will still be the limiting factor.


Either that, or the trailing wheel, stopped by the TC rod.


These are my knuckles. They're about 3.875" with as close as I could figure to 0 ackerman.


Control arms extended ~37mm
Rack relocated forward ~30mm
17x7.5 +8 with 215/45
Camber unknown: Camber plate adjusted to the middle on both sides.
Caster unknown: as little as possible without the tire rubbing through the harness on the firewall

[Mooch]

Originally Posted by Guilty1s

It puts a 7mm plate inbetween the knuckle and the bearing/hub. The stock axles can handle the difference. No need to change it.

Stock axles could very much handle a KA or low power SR, but LS?

[articdragon192]

Originally Posted by swiftmini

I still think modded geomasters is a much better option

The G7 piece is a much easier option though. And easily removable. Which I like.

[IThaJokaI]

Originally Posted by articdragon192

The G7 piece is a much easier option though. And easily removable. Which I like.

Do you know if R chassis stuff works on Z chassis though? I did a little searching but couldn't find any solid info. Id like to use the G7 setup on my Q45.

[swiftmini]

Originally Posted by Mooch

Stock axles could very much handle a KA or low power SR, but LS?

put a spacer between the diff and the axle cv joint like people with retarded low cars

[My$800S14]

Never heard or seen anything like that, man that would be sketchy unless it was a full plate made for perfect fitment, man I could see someone reading this down the road and then a thread pops up with some kid with washers in between the diff and axles

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[IThaJokaI]

Originally Posted by My$800S14

Never heard or seen anything like that, man that would be sketchy unless it was a full plate made for perfect fitment, man I could see someone reading this down the road and then a thread pops up with some kid with washers in between the diff and axles

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

It is not sketchy at all, and someone already made a bolt in piece. I don't know if he still makes them, however.

AXLE SPACERS : 240sx General Discussion

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by IThaJokaI

It is not sketchy at all, and someone already made a bolt in piece. I don't know if he still makes them, however.

AXLE SPACERS : 240sx General Discussion

Originally Posted by My$800S14

Never heard or seen anything like that, man that would be sketchy unless it was a full plate made for perfect fitment, man I could see someone reading this down the road and then a thread pops up with some kid with washers in between the diff and axles

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I've done some research into making axle spacers and the reason that I haven't pulled the trigger on them yet is because I haven't had the need or really seen if there was a market out there for them.

Making a proper axle spacer isn't too hard as long as you understand how the OEM axle attached to the output shafts on the differential That nifty little alignment groove is important because it keeps the axles concentric, and the alignment cone makes the axle install much more bearable than it would be otherwise, but it seems as if most people don't pay attention to the bolts...

If you look at the OEM axle bolts on S13's and S14's (and I'd imagine every other Nissan) they're actually more of a Pin with threads on the end than a traditional bolt. One of the things that many, many people are unaware of is that the threaded portion of a bolt is not intended to provide strength in shear, as the limiting factor in strength is the minor diameter of the threaded portion. Even though the stock Axle bolt is 'technically' an M8x1.25, that doesn't mean that any M8 can be used - if you were to use a fully threaded bolt instead of the stock one, you're essentially replacing an 8mm Pin (this is the portion that actually handles the shear loading between the axle and flange) with a 6mm Pin because the minor Diameter of an M8 Bolt is ~6mm.

Food for thought.

[My$800S14]

Agreed the shank is the strength, and a bolt of that size is only designed to be torqued to probably between 20 and 30 ft/lbs these aren't exact numbers though and it could be higher. However the clamping force is beneficial only for eliminating some torsional slop, I realize these said spacers could be safe and useful if done properly I was just saying the opportunity for someone to be retarded and mess it up is there

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[My$800S14]

i was wondering what negative effects there are with those megan 25mm extended brackets?

seen here: Megan Front Extended Brackets - S14 240SX 95-98 - Enjuku Racing Parts, LLC

would these increase scrub radius? or simply place the coilover at an awkward angle. and posisbly cause bigger issues with caster, kpi, and or camber gain through the steering range?

i ask this because i am thinking about putting my s13 megan tracks on an s14 that i may be getting, and i also have 25mm extended lca's it would be really cool if this would simply just help bring down the negative camber some with the extended lca's, if this will work, i would rather buy these extended s14 brackets, than drill the wholes for the s13 out, and just in case someone feels the need to through there opinion in, i know megans are garbage, we dont need to go over this, and i have pbm's for le track car, these guys are for use on what i intend to be a daily drifter, and i pucked them up almost new for $500