General politics discussion. Keep it civil.

[RalliartRsX]

Originally Posted by Corbic

What about all the service dogs they just left in travel cages at the airport.

So errr, that's just flat out not true

https://www.fox61.com/article/news/v...0-02c1067a6d9f

?Photos circulating online were animals under the care of the Kabul Small Animal Rescue, not dogs under our care,? Defense Department spokesperson John Kirby tweeted on Tuesday.

I really don't have time to go through the rest. Maybe later

[nick_d_240sx]

Does this make it any better?

https://news.yahoo.com/us-woman-left...110000445.html

Biden really botched this pullout. I can't believe countries are trying to negotiate with these scumbags.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/01/asia/...ntl/index.html

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

So errr, that's just flat out not true

https://www.fox61.com/article/news/v...0-02c1067a6d9f



I really don't have time to go through the rest. Maybe later

No, it's actually worse. It's people's pets.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-woman-left...110000445.html

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by Corbic

When in doubt lob insults and run away. If the topic is to complicated for you to explain, then you just don't understand it well enough to explain it.

I can't keep up with the gallop, man. I just can't. You can spout bullshit and half-truths faster than I can appropriately debunk them, and since your mind is already made up... what's the fucking point? I keep pissing in the wind and I'm tired of it. There are too many entrenched opinions that won't be swayed with facts, so I'm just going to tell you that you're ignorant and move along. Edit: I'm just going to put you on my ignore list. I think my life will be simpler.

nick_d_240sx, our government negotiated with these scumbags, resulting in a peace agreement in February 2020 that addressed a cease-fire, a withdrawal of foreign forces within fourteen months, intra-Afghan negotiations, and counterterrorism assurances that "Afghanistan will not be used by any of its members, other individuals, or terrorist groups to threaten the security of the United States and its allies."

Part of the deal was the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners in exchange for 1,000 Afghan security forces.

In February 2020, the Taliban controlled at least 69 districts. Hundreds more were contested. The government-controlled or undetermined-controlled districts were far, far in the minority so it's not like there was much of a choice. There are 391 districts in Afghanistan's 34 provinces, so as of Feb. '20, the Taliban controlled more than 17.5% of the country and a further 40+% were contested. Everyone knew the ANA was fucking useless and its leadership almost as corrupt as the Afghan government.

The public is like "omg how did it move so fast and how did Biden fuck up?" when they know nothing, were burned out on an unpopular war, and were otherwise occupied by the media talking about Trump's impeachment, the delay in the Iowa caucus, the threat of the coronavirus, the Boy Scouts filing for bankruptcy, etc.

[deolio]

So Texas banning abortions. They at least gonna pump more money into the foster care system to make up for the unwanted births? Nope. Religious/republican hypocrisy at it again? YUP!

Sees vaccine: "Don't tell me what to do with my body!"
Sees abortion clinic: "You can't do that with your body!!!!"
Choose one.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

I can't keep up with the gallop, man. I just can't. You can spout bullshit and half-truths faster than I can appropriately debunk them, and since your mind is already made up... what's the fucking point? I keep pissing in the wind and I'm tired of it. There are too many entrenched opinions that won't be swayed with facts, so I'm just going to tell you that you're ignorant and move along. Edit: I'm just going to put you on my ignore list. I think my life will be simpler.

watch out, he's about to get dressed in black bloc and start spraying bear mace on us

if you cant handle discussion, why cry about it? no one put a gun to your head to contribute to this thread, its just useless banter. what are you going to cry about next, that your time is too valuable and that you could be making money instead of talking with us mere peasants?

have you not realized you're on zilvia? there is nothing of significant value on here.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by Corbic

What about all the service dogs they just left in travel cages at the airport

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

So errr, that's just flat out not true

https://www.fox61.com/article/news/v...0-02c1067a6d9f

funny how people get stuck on details. dogs in cages, kids in cages, whats the difference. people make a million and one excuses as to how this is the fault of so-and-so, anyone BUT biden. one thing is a fact, his pull out game is WEAK. im just glad that trump is out and that the hot potato landed in bidens hands. all we have seen and will continue to see is failure from this guy, which is a good thing. americans will need to eat some shit sandwiches in order to appreciate or deserve something better. people will need to learn to think independently instead of agreeing with whatever is trending.

same applies to california, all of a suden pretty boy gavin is out there cleaning up garbage on camera and we're supposed to believe that he's for the people. we're supposed to believe the LA times when they say elder, a black man from south central, is the black face of white supremacy. the fuck outta here with that bullshit.

all of these diversion tactics with race and gender mean nothing. the major problem and this is globally, is class-ism. the poor with the poor, the rich with the rich.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by deolio

So Texas banning abortions. They at least gonna pump more money into the foster care system to make up for the unwanted births? Nope. Religious/republican hypocrisy at it again? YUP!

Sees vaccine: "Don't tell me what to do with my body!"
Sees abortion clinic: "You can't do that with your body!!!!"
Choose one.

Your argument has some broken logic.

Those who appose abortion due so because they see it as the murdering of human life - life begins at conception. Even the courts have a sense of hypocrisy in this, since if you commit violence to a pregnant woman, and the child dies, you can be charged with a homicide crime.

Even if you look at it without recognizing a fetus as a human, your argument is still a straw man. One would be denying access to a medical procedure as apposed to forcing a medical procedure onto someone.

I do agree with you that abortions are generally done be degenerates who'd only be raising/abusing and neglecting future degenerates.

We have soooo many forms of contraception today (condoms, pills, shots, tubes tide, testies tide, diaphragms, etc) combined with the ability to abstain from vaginal sex that, franking you are a complete retard to have become pregnant from voluntary sex.

The decline of our culture is a direct response to peoples inability to take ownership of their mistakes and personal responsibility.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

I can't keep up with the gallop, man. I just can't. You can spout bullshit and half-truths faster than I can appropriately debunk them, and since your mind is already made up... what's the fucking point?

Bruh,

I didn't gallop or go off on any rants or half-truths. I responded, point by point to you comments. You just don't like having your one liners countered and are now having the NPC short circuit.

Do whatcha gotta do. Don't want that bubble to burst and you realize the world is full of color.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

PS- Is it freedom at home and not abroad? Tyranny for thee and not for me? Do you want an M1151 with an M2 manned by a 19-year-old from Bumfuck, Idaho at the end of your street, or do you only want it in countries we're trying to, uh, spread peace to?

this particular quote didnt sit well with me. corbic already pointed it out, but i dont get the reason for the idaho reference other than to try and be funny.

would it resonate better if instead of saying bumfuck, idaho... should we say compton, ca? or beverly hills, ca? my point is, whats the fucking point. it would be better to just say an AMERICAN from the united states of... america, as opposed to trying to denigrate someone from the interior of the country in which you and i live in.

i would say that its this very type of mentality that has been eating away at the country for decades now, thinking that someone else is going to stick their neck out and fight for this land.

[spooled240]

I think it's much more unreasonable to force someone take a vaccine and accept the potential dangers of side effects than to deny someone an abortion operation for participating in preventable and irresponsible sexual activities. I'm vaccinated btw, I just don't believe that the government should be able to inject us with anything they want. That's a scaaaary road many people are wanting to go down..

[KA24DESOneThree]

The last time people fought within our borders, for our defense, was during WWII- after we'd declared an offensive war.

Otherwise, and this is not meant to be a denigration of the troops but rather of their commanders, they have not fought defensively in a long, long time.

We keep up this ooh-rah patriotism while letting ourselves continue to slide. We're the worst OECD country in terms of pay equity, we pay the highest in per-capita healthcare yet are not the most healthy, we have the highest cost of transportation infrastructure, our government is slow, outdated, and gridlocked, etc.

We constantly, and I mean constantly, find new things to fight about other than making our country better. We constantly meddle in external affairs "for the better of the country" and yet... our country's not getting fucking better because we're always so divided and ignorant when it comes to internal affairs.

Sure, Compton or Bakersfield or Lancaster or Gilbert or Paducah or Barstow or Winnemucca or Silver City or Ely or Provo or Cleveland or Detroit or Richmond or Sylacauga or Jackson or... Bumfuck.

If classism is the problem, why the fuck does the Republican party refuse to do anything about it and instead parades the ultra-rich around as paragons of virtue?

[deolio]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Your argument has some broken logic.

Those who appose abortion due so because they see it as the murdering of human life - life begins at conception. Even the courts have a sense of hypocrisy in this, since if you commit violence to a pregnant woman, and the child dies, you can be charged with a homicide crime.

Even if you look at it without recognizing a fetus as a human, your argument is still a straw man. One would be denying access to a medical procedure as apposed to forcing a medical procedure onto someone.

"When life begins" is a silly argument. Might as well penalize dudes for pulling out and women for having periods...

My argument is: let people make their own decisions about their health. Don't require vaccines for the general public, don't ban abortions. NO TOUCHY.

Originally Posted by Corbic

I do agree with you that abortions are generally done be degenerates who'd only be raising/abusing and neglecting future degenerates.

We have soooo many forms of contraception today (condoms, pills, shots, tubes tide, testies tide, diaphragms, etc) combined with the ability to abstain from vaginal sex that, franking you are a complete retard to have become pregnant from voluntary sex.

The decline of our culture is a direct response to peoples inability to take ownership of their mistakes and personal responsibility.

Degenerates lol I dated a woman who had been raped while in law school and didn't find out she was pregnant until a couple weeks after the window for legal abortion in Indiana, which is nearly 4x later than the Texas law allows. Luckily she was able to find a great family to adopt the baby and went on to be a very successful human rights attorney, but stories like that are few and far between.

While it'd be nice if humans were perfectly responsible beings without impulsive tendencies, that's not our reality. We have science and technology to make up for our short comings (hah pun), why not use them instead of possibly ruining a mother and her unwanted child's (you could say it'd be ruined one way or another) life?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by deolio

Degenerates

Mostly.

Originally Posted by deolio

lol I dated a woman who had been raped while in law school and didn't find out she was pregnant until a couple weeks after the window for legal abortion in Indiana, which is nearly 4x later than the Texas law allows. Luckily she was able to find a great family to adopt the baby and went on to be a very successful human rights attorney,

Which is exactly why I said VOLUNTARY

Originally Posted by deolio

but stories like that are few and far between.

Exactly, which is why it's always a hard eye-roll when the Pro-Abortion team starts screeching about rape/incest/deformities/health.

Data is out there, and those make up a very small % of the actual abortions performed. The % of Pro-Life team that would want those situations to also be outlawed is also very extremely low.

Originally Posted by deolio

While it'd be nice if humans were perfectly responsible beings without impulsive tendencies, that's not our reality. We have science and technology to make up for our short comings (hah pun), why not use them instead of possibly ruining a mother and her unwanted child's (you could say it'd be ruined one way or another) life?

This can be a very long debate. But here is my 2-cents. The adoption system in America is fucking trash. The father's rights in America is fucking trash.

I have known several families that have spent YEARS waiting to adopt American children. We import roughly 20k adopted children per year, however that number has been crashing with increasing restrictions, regulations and challenges getting VISAs. Typical cost for importing a child is $30,000.

7-10 Million Americans are adopted. I personally have 2 adopted foreign imported siblings and three friends who where domestic adoptions.


Now Extreme Conspiracy Talk

One thing I find amusing, the Left, who is all about the Abortions - is also all about "systemic racism" and "white power" and all these talking points.

Meanwhile, 35-40% of women who have abortion are black and overall national population growth numbers indicate abortion has certainly kept the black population locked in at 11-13% total while other groups have exploded.

Roll this into the grotesquely managed big-cities that are overflowing with black crime victims and murder victims that the Leftist constantly turn a blind eye too.

It's also twisted how the Left is pushing for increased 3rd world immigration (but vehemently apposes 1st and 2nd world immigration) and argues we need immigrants to bolster our stagnate/falling birthrates - all the while pushing to abort more domestic babies. (Seeing this in the US and Europe).

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Lots of Twitter Points

Lets unpack this one at a time since you are all over the place.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

The last time people fought within our borders, for our defense, was during WWII- after we'd declared an offensive war.

That's a good thing. This is what I was talking about when I said the 19th Century allowed us to become an Apex Predator. After the USCW - we conquered the entire continent with neighbors to the north and south completely incapable of matching us in any metric.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

We keep up this ooh-rah patriotism while letting ourselves continue to slide.

What slide? Be specific. Culturally? That has zero to do with international affairs or the military. Economically? How so? We, as a nation and as individuals, are wealthier than ever before.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

terms of pay equity,

In what way? Are you going to tout the BS made up stat "women make 80% of what men make" - while basically ignoring the fact that men and women choose completely different professions, prioritize different life balances and your gonna mix 5-6 billionaires in there to skew the results?

Latest studies show - specific jobs, within specific companies - women can typically make 5% more then male counter parts. Women also dominate College graduation numbers.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

we pay the highest in per-capita healthcare yet are not the most healthy

That makes perfect sense, no? I'd expect lazy unhealthy people to have higher medical bills and need more medical procedures. Thank God your team passed Affordable Healthcare Act and raised everyone costs 25%!

You also realize, in Italy when you need a knee replacement - they give you a free cane and put you on a 10 year waiting list. In Russia, if you are over 55, they won't send an ambulance - you can hire one, have someone drive you - or just fucking die. But hey, it's free.

Before you cry "Cause Capitalism". Our Healthcare system is FAR from a free-market system thanks to endless regulation and how we have essentially no choice in state regulated insurance providers. When is the last time you went to a hospital and saw a price chart?

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

we have the highest cost of transportation infrastructure

And what? What did you expect from government manged road projects that utilize expensive union personnel who have no incentive to complete a project ahead of schedule and under cost?

Also, not every state is a shit hole like California with insane registration and gas taxes but has garbage streets and well garbage everywhere.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

our government is slow

Union Employees hired and promoted based on diversity and inclusion - not actual aptitude and performance.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

outdated

How so?

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

and gridlocked

Normally this is a very good thing. If they can't make changes, they can't fuck shit up. Unfortunately they've been in overdrive these past 20 years fucking with everything.

Can we just uninstall any "updates" made post 1985 please?

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

We constantly, and I mean constantly, find new things to fight about other than making our country better.

I'm assuming you mean "The Left" when you say "We". Conservatives have basically only been dragged left in the last 40 years. It's the "Progressives" that forever need to make "progress" regardless of how idiotic. The Gay stuff is the best example of this slippery slope.

In 30 years we've gone from an outright ban on gay military service to the military has to accommodate transsexuals and pay for gender reassignment surgery.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

We constantly meddle in external affairs "for the better of the country" and yet... our country's not getting fucking better because we're always so divided and ignorant when it comes to internal affairs.

Unrelated. That's like saying "I spent $15k on a new roof and my car still doesn't run!!"

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

If classism is the problem, why the fuck does the Republican party refuse to do anything about it and instead parades the ultra-rich around as paragons of virtue?

Watching to much Don Lemon?

The Left is not the "anti-establishment" rebel outsiders. It is the ultra-rich, it is the major companies, it is the tech industry, it is the entertainment industry, it is the administrative government, it is the unions, it is academia.

These groups gave BILLIONS to BLM. Benso gave freaking Van Jones $100M, etc.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/20/m...ion/index.html

Have you paid any attention to who is supporting the "Great Rest" and "Build Back Better"?

[Corbic]

Now lets sit back and watch as Kevin stamps his feet and refuses to talk about a single point he tried to make.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Now lets sit back and watch as Kevin stamps his feet and refuses to talk about a single point he tried to make.

how fortunate, you werent added to his ignore list. funny how nowadays, people are so accustomed to interacting with people virtually, that they have a hard time sitting down and having civil discussions or even debates. they're hoping that someone will invent an app that will either mute/block/ignore people in real life.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

The last time people fought within our borders, for our defense, was during WWII- after we'd declared an offensive war.

Otherwise, and this is not meant to be a denigration of the troops but rather of their commanders, they have not fought defensively in a long, long time.

We keep up this ooh-rah patriotism while letting ourselves continue to slide. We're the worst OECD country in terms of pay equity, we pay the highest in per-capita healthcare yet are not the most healthy, we have the highest cost of transportation infrastructure, our government is slow, outdated, and gridlocked, etc.

We constantly, and I mean constantly, find new things to fight about other than making our country better. We constantly meddle in external affairs "for the better of the country" and yet... our country's not getting fucking better because we're always so divided and ignorant when it comes to internal affairs.

Sure, Compton or Bakersfield or Lancaster or Gilbert or Paducah or Barstow or Winnemucca or Silver City or Ely or Provo or Cleveland or Detroit or Richmond or Sylacauga or Jackson or... Bumfuck.

If classism is the problem, why the fuck does the Republican party refuse to do anything about it and instead parades the ultra-rich around as paragons of virtue?

you keep turning all of these discussion into left vs right, when they are not. it should be about american values and having morals, family values, etc. rather than make suggestions on solutions to a lot of these issues, you just denigrate and ridicule things you dont like or agree with. you would make a great politician, you'd fit right into the left side of the puzzle.

question, do you have a college degree? you are so smart, something tells me the answer is yes.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by Corbic

The % of Pro-Life team that would want those situations to also be outlawed is also very extremely low.

Yet here we are

"The law does not make exceptions for rape or incest."

Originally Posted by Corbic

The adoption system in America is fucking trash.

Fact. The foster care system as well. Why is that though? The system is overwhelmed with unwanted children maybe? The conservatives who push for these laws don't actually want to adopt any of the babies they insist the degenerate/unfit parents bring into the world maybe? At the other end, maybe not enough self-centered millennials want kids? Or maybe they simply can't afford to have kids? Really just a supply and demand issue in the end, which is sad.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Now Extreme Conspiracy Talk

One thing I find amusing, the Left, who is all about the Abortions - is also all about "systemic racism" and "white power" and all these talking points.

Meanwhile, 35-40% of women who have abortion are black and overall national population growth numbers indicate abortion has certainly kept the black population locked in at 11-13% total while other groups have exploded.

Roll this into the grotesquely managed big-cities that are overflowing with black crime victims and murder victims that the Leftist constantly turn a blind eye too.

What's the conspiracy? That white conservatives want young black women to be forced to bring children into the world before they've had a chance at adulthood and an education, so they can ensure a perpetual cycle of neo-slavery? Sounds more like a reality to me.

Getting knocked up unplanned is irresponsible, yes, but bringing a baby into an already overcrowded world when you aren't ready is far less responsible.

Originally Posted by Corbic

It's also twisted how the Left is pushing for increased 3rd world immigration (but vehemently apposes 1st and 2nd world immigration) and argues we need immigrants to bolster our stagnate/falling birthrates - all the while pushing to abort more domestic babies. (Seeing this in the US and Europe).

Would help if the domestic adoption system wasn't fucked (as you stated earlier). Many states have conservative regulations that don't allow single and/or non-hetero parents to adopt, which removed an ENORMOUS portion of people looking to adopt from the pool and forces them to look abroad.

Remove conservative restrictions and regulations on abortion and adoption and BOOM sorted lol

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

how fortunate, you werent added to his ignore list. funny how nowadays, people are so accustomed to interacting with people virtually, that they have a hard time sitting down and having civil discussions or even debates. they're hoping that someone will invent an app that will either mute/block/ignore people in real life.

you keep turning all of these discussion into left vs right, when they are not. it should be about american values and having morals, family values, etc. rather than make suggestions on solutions to a lot of these issues, you just denigrate and ridicule things you dont like or agree with. you would make a great politician, you'd fit right into the left side of the puzzle.

question, do you have a college degree? you are so smart, something tells me the answer is yes.

Re: your first point- there is no debate to be had when one or both parties are unwilling to change their point of view. You can take that as you will.

I turn discussions into left and right because that's all we have anymore in the States: the Republican party and the Democrat party. We have "moderate" Republicans and "moderate" Democrats who are used as pawns, shills, and human sacrifices, then you have the hard-liners and long-termers on both sides who use Americans as pawns. The moderates often aren't moderate on everything; they still need to keep their fellow Ds or Rs happy.

What are American values? What are morals? Family values? Are our values based in reality or in a perfect world? Based in the Founders' vision for the country or a holistic understanding of where the country is now? Are our morals based on Christianity or Islam or the laws of the United States or property ownership or? Family values differ family by family; my wife's family's values growing up were incredibly different than mine.

These are complex issues- if you've ever worked for an established company that has no mission statement, you know how hard it is to get management to agree about what the company's mission is and you'd likely also have to come up with an internal mission statement and a client-facing mission statement. Then you have to talk with everyone about how to make that mission statement a reality, how to ensure that every person who reads it understands what it means in relation to the company's internal and external actions. That's just a company, something that could live or die and the country would barely notice- not an entire country and all of its inhabitants trying to work out what its set of values is collectively.

I don't have a college degree. I paid my way through community college and a couple semesters of real college, but I quickly became disappointed with the rampant cheating and the amount of money I had to pay (not to mention the amount of time I had to set aside) for classes that were irrelevant to my major. That was around the same time I stopped going to track days and drifting.

[Ichi-Go]

I have not seen one face mask in any of the Afghanistan images.

[KA24DESOneThree]

I've seen quite a few, but it doesn't really matter. Maybe we'll have a super-spreader, maybe people who believe masks are bullshit will have a field day.

Whatever happens, though, it's going to be Biden's fault.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by deolio

What's the conspiracy? That white conservatives want young black women to be forced to bring children into the world before they've had a chance at adulthood and an education, so they can ensure a perpetual cycle of neo-slavery? Sounds more like a reality to me.

this gotta be one of the dumbest fucking things i've read from you...

neo-slavery? blacks are the only ones fuckin? blacks got weak pull-out technique? well shit, lets hit the statistics!!! blacks Blacks BLACKS and NeeeeEEeeOOOO SLAVERY. NO SUCCESS, ONLY FAILURE! Only POVERTY.

Ahhhh but these whites, they're so stiff they aint fuckin. besides, all whites have the last name CLINTON or BIDEN or TRUMP, they're all wealthy

the amount of people that get hung up on racist rhetoric. to think like this, makes me wonder if people even have friends of other nationalities?

in this new sick fucked up twisted world, people should just start walking down the street saying:
"hello white man"
"ahh yes, hello black man... good day to you to sir"
"fucking prick with his white privilege"
"poor black man, so repressed... i am so lucky"

people have lost the ability to see people as individuals, only skin color. no understanding for culture and origin, only skin color.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

I turn discussions into left and right because that's all we have anymore in the States

this is what happens when politicians have more control and influence, it creates this gap and separates the people. take the leaders out of the equation and people have an amazing and natural ability to work out their problems and interact (self-moderate).

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

What are American values? What are morals? Family values? Are our values based in reality or in a perfect world? Based in the Founders' vision for the country or a holistic understanding of where the country is now? Are our morals based on Christianity or Islam or the laws of the United States or property ownership or? Family values differ family by family; my wife's family's values growing up were incredibly different than mine.

this can be answered in a multitude of ways and as you pointed out, vary. however, there is a loose structure and the meaning of being an american and having american values IS something that exists and is easily defined. lost are so many who fail to understand this, including biden and his family.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

I don't have a college degree. I paid my way through community college and a couple semesters of real college,

thanks for sharing that.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

I've seen quite a few, but it doesn't really matter. Maybe we'll have a super-spreader, maybe people who believe masks are bullshit will have a field day.

Whatever happens, though, it's going to be Biden's fault.

it already IS bidens fault, its a fuckup of biblical proportions involving multiple people in his administration, all of which will become fall guys so that he doesnt get the full blame. but the people are already disappointed beyond belief, both left and right since you like to divide the consensus. its no different than the newsom recall, people are just pissed.

most rational people dont deny that the virus exists or is an issue. its more about the extreme measures in lunacy that people have turned to in order to do what they feel is damage control (australia/new zealand). the virus is going to take its toll on society, mask or no mask, vaccine or no vaccine, mandates or none... but when you have people who literally are worried about being killed desperately clinging to the EXTERIOR of a plane taking off, i am sure you can understand that the virus is the least of concern. stop and think what it would take for YOU to cling onto the outside of a departing plane. thats insane.

.... and then i have my dumb fuck co-worker tell me that hes worried about catching COVID via exchanging papers in our office and that he orders everything online. this virus has accentuated the fragility in weak-minded individuals incapable of independent thought. and, for me... its showing that mass-hysteria is real and we are very much seeing the effects of it.

[LEG1T]

Texas and Florida are really fucking up, and in reality largely represents the growing GOP party these days which is sad. Terrible leadership and unbelievable division and showing just a terrible compass of reality.

If that's the future of the GOP, that's sad but not surprising.

As far as Biden, I hate that he left Afghanistan hanging and thought the pull out game was weak and definitely felt as though he let the Taliban get the upper hand there so terrible look for him there. I don't believe we should have settled for marching orders on what date we had to depart until more people got out but that's what happened. Also major L, in the military leaving guns, ammo and trucks for them to use. Just Terrible.

Leaving the people of Panjshir to fend for themselves while giving Taliban a competitive advantage was pure evil and the people and allies of that country will never forget that.

The war in Afghanistan started under Bush, continued on. Lets not forget that it was Trump that announced the plan to withdraw because he knew what a shit show it would be in timing to make Biden look bad. His intention wasn't for the good will of the people but to score political points against his rival. Atleast that's how it looks, pretty obvious actually.

Biden not doing too good as far as his handling of the war, but again would much rather have him instead of the other problems in our own country we get with the GOP.

[ixfxi]

^^^ the above post is what i would say is, written by someone completely and fully misinformed. As in, everything you wrote is wrong.

If TX and FL are fucked up, then people wouldnt be moving out in droves from <insert state here> and moving TO FL and TX. Again, your post just perpetuates left vs right as opposed to people just being fed up with big gov.

On a more important note, why not step out of the US-of-A bubble and talk about the issue globally. I talk to customers from all over the world daily. People fed up in Ireland, people fed up in Aus and NZ with NO option to leave. Being forced to check in via cell phone app like a fuckin prisoner. And yet, you want to stick on this left vs right nonsense.

This is much larger than what most people understand.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

this is what happens when politicians have more control and influence, it creates this gap and separates the people. take the leaders out of the equation and people have an amazing and natural ability to work out their problems and interact (self-moderate).

this can be answered in a multitude of ways and as you pointed out, vary. however, there is a loose structure and the meaning of being an american and having american values IS something that exists and is easily defined. lost are so many who fail to understand this, including biden and his family.

People may have an amazing and natural ability to work out their problems, but even if you take politicians out, the United States has some serious stumbling blocks.

First: social media. Too many malefactors in the mix and too much gish gallop to try to debunk. The average person isn't going to stop scrolling, open their browser, search whether or not what they've read is true, and then use that to inform their future decisions.

Second: television. Again, too many malefactors in the mix and too much gish gallop to try to debunk. Too many people put their trust in entertainers.

What do you think the meaning of being an American is, and what do you think the top five American values are? This is the root of an understanding of the difference between me and you.

Originally Posted by ixfxi

most rational people dont deny that the virus exists or is an issue. its more about the extreme measures in lunacy that people have turned to in order to do what they feel is damage control (australia/new zealand). the virus is going to take its toll on society, mask or no mask, vaccine or no vaccine, mandates or none... but when you have people who literally are worried about being killed desperately clinging to the EXTERIOR of a plane taking off, i am sure you can understand that the virus is the least of concern. stop and think what it would take for YOU to cling onto the outside of a departing plane. thats insane.

.... and then i have my dumb fuck co-worker tell me that hes worried about catching COVID via exchanging papers in our office and that he orders everything online. this virus has accentuated the fragility in weak-minded individuals incapable of independent thought. and, for me... its showing that mass-hysteria is real and we are very much seeing the effects of it.

What's happening in Australia and NZ isn't happening here. Some people in power may want that, but it hasn't happened and is unlikely to happen. The sad thing is that Oz and NZ both took COVID much more seriously than we did, and their people weren't brainwashed into thinking a mask to help their neighbors and their country was too much to ask.

The Afghan comparison is a red herring. My callous take on it is that, while sad in the fact that there are people who died, it means nothing to this country. I wasn't moved by the pictures and video. We have far, far more important issues in this country than to take what happened over there when we were leaving and using it to distract from our internal issues. We're out, it happened, we need to have a conversation as to how we never get in the same boat but otherwise it's a non-issue in the overall scheme of things.

My wife's family always sees an outsized impact when pandemics happen. Her brother got H1N1 and has had respiratory tract issues ever since. Her father got COVID, got pulmonary fibrosis as an added bonus, had a long decline, a brief upswing, then got pneumonia and died. The world still doesn't know how long "long COVID" lasts or how many maladies are included. There's a value to that knowledge and to people being sick and unable to work their previous jobs or whatever.

There is cognitive dissonance when it comes to big government. A lot of Texans and Floridians seem to forget that states can be the State. If a state government wants to outsource legislation to snitches, or wants to withhold funding for local decisions, that's State overreach.

I'm a realist. If other countries can do universal health care cheaper than we can do our... whatever we want to call it, I'd say let's emulate that. If we can free the market, undercut their prices by a third, and deliver equal or better care, I'd definitely say let's go there- but that's not going to happen. So we have to operate within the confines of the Leviathan, to mold it in our way, to take its size and leverage it.

If other countries spend $x dollars on national defense, and we spend $xxx dollars, we need to be getting $xxx dollars of return. Our population is 3.953 times Germany's and yet our defense budget is 11.03 times Germany's ($63.8bn for Germany, $703.7bn for US). Germany is contiguous to some of the world's biggest terrorism hot spots, we're across an ocean.

It's no surprise so many American adults are diagnosed with ADHD when our news cycle and government can't come to meaningful conclusions without moving on to the next thing: drought, wildfires, hurricanes, tropical storms, evacuations, COVID, California, Texas, Florida, New York, Chicago, Portland, antifa, Proud Boys, Biden, Trump, DeSantis, AOC, Harris, Newsom, electric cars, Tesla, rocket launches, Chrissy Teigen, Olympics, Paralympics, Donda, Schwarzenegger, Labor Day sales, Banksy, etc.

[ixfxi]

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

People may have an amazing and natural ability to work out their problems, but even if you take politicians out, the United States has some serious stumbling blocks.

First: social media. Too many malefactors in the mix and too much gish gallop to try to debunk. The average person isn't going to stop scrolling, open their browser, search whether or not what they've read is true, and then use that to inform their future decisions.

Second: television. Again, too many malefactors in the mix and too much gish gallop to try to debunk. Too many people put their trust in entertainers.

What do you think the meaning of being an American is, and what do you think the top five American values are? This is the root of an understanding of the difference between me and you.

^ See people, this is what you get when people stop with the LEFT vs RIGHT and stop with the one-upping. People find common ground and focus more on dialogue than on being right.

Social media: I couldnt agree with you more, the way I see it.. it all should be banned.

TV/Film/News: I agree, with the exception that these industries are the mouth of the democratic party, as are the entertainers. Lack of family structure makes the weak fall victim to idolizing these shithead entertainers who simply tow the line for the party.

Picking the top five american values would just reflect the amendments:
1) bear arms
2) religion
3) speech
4) protest
5) jury trial

this country has been operating just fine for hundreds of years and people continue to come here because of these values. its one of the few nations where people still hold onto their culture but also embrace ours. they assimilate and intermarry.

[deolio]

Originally Posted by ixfxi

this gotta be one of the dumbest fucking things i've read from you...

Originally Posted by Corbic

Now Extreme Conspiracy Talk

My bad, thought we were posting wild conspiracy theories with vague details and zero sources

Originally Posted by ixfxi

people have lost the ability to see people as individuals, only skin color. no understanding for culture and origin, only skin color.

They lost it? Don't think may places outside of major metros ever had it.

[KA24DESOneThree]

TV/Film/News: Don't forget Fox, OANN, and everything on YouTube and whatever the conservative video sites are. TV/Film/News are not just a mouthpiece for the left.

If you translate from amendment to value, the right to bear arms could be a right to property and safety or a right to decide one's life for oneself or a combination of both. Perhaps equality?

The right to freedom of religion can be both a blessing and a curse. The country came about partly due to religious persecution, and religion has been used constantly and consistently to influence policy. I don't have a dog in religion's fight, so I don't know how this plays into a value system.

The right to freedom of speech usually means a right to a market of ideas and a right to equality of voice. Before it just meant you could dominate the conversation by tossing a soapbox in the middle of the town square but now that companies dominate media, freedom of $peech becomes problematic.

The right to protest is covered in right to freedom of speech, but I don't know what value is covered by that.

The right to a jury trial should be considered the value of equality, but it's not equal, is it? If you have money, you can buy the best defense. If you don't, you get appointed some lawyer they scraped out of of a barrel.

The United States is a nihilistic place now. It has this glossy veneer of freedom and equality but then you start looking closer and you realize that it's an Instagram filter. We're actively trying to destroy our own country. I've helped.

We're not the free-est, not in terms of personal freedoms, not in terms of freedom of the press, not in terms of business. The amount of government inefficiency and waste is obscene. Everything's bloated, and it's not bloated because it's fed too much, it's bloated because it's decomposing.