2012 Presidential Election Thread! Let's kick it off early!

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Anymore I think the Soviets won.
Sure they filed bankruptcy, had to reorganize, shed some dead weight, rename, rebrand...but they won.

The God hating, State worshiping values have permeated into our western civilization - no longer identifying oneself as a communist or socialist is seen as unsavory, let alone an outright crime...

Pussy Riot would argue differently about Russia. And no shit, we live in a free country you racist fascist idiot

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Do tell...

I think we are all aware of the fact there are wealthy costal cities across the continent, but I'm curious to what modern wonder Africa was before the colonial age in the 18th century.

Well let us think about what the colonial powers did in the middle east/Africa:
-Sold people
-Put ethnic minorities in power and/or created false racial/ethnic boundaries in place (Hutu/Tutsi in Rwanda come to mind)
-Put political boundaries in place without thinking about the consequences
-Wouldn't leave the continent without bloodshed or destroying the infrastructure in place
-Did things without consulting locals/people who knew anything about the reason, I forget what country this was in (iirc it was a British colony) the colonial ruler tried to plant ground nuts and the environment was wrong for them in every way and once fertile lands were ruined within five or so years.

Originally Posted by Highway Riding

+1 In the end Obama didn't utter one word on how he will CHANGE the economy for the better and I think that one brave sole who asked openly why should I vote for you when I'm not that optimistic shows the disconnect to the average american. Did anyone notice the firm and condescending tone he took with that gentleman? Does anyone think his generic answer spoke to that individual. At this point any real voter will not be swayed by these debates. For America's sake i just hope the man who wants to work harder without a hidden agenda will win. Because hidden agenda's are the reason there is a stalemate in congress. And when people utter the word flip flop and Romney - I think compromise. When it comes down to it those gunning for Romney just want to see the economy actually rebound and not some left wing poll which says so. We want to see real American and families spending more, saving more and not as politically divided as they are now!

Do you really think the President can change the economy? This isn't Belarus, as much as conservatives want to talk about the communization/socialization of the economy, the economy is still wide open compared to many states. The gov't doesn't have control, ask any economist, any real economist it doesn't matter if you invest $1T or $1, a free market economy is a free market economy.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by JimCrom

I think the observation still holds weight that those arguing that government could go away tomorrow, and they would be fine, fail to recognize how interconnected all facets of our society have become.

They imagine an Ayn Ran libertard fantasy. "Fuck You Got Mine"

[JimCrom]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Do tell...

I think we are all aware of the fact there are wealthy costal cities across the continent, but I'm curious to what modern wonder Africa was before the colonial age in the 18th century.

Proper European colonization of Africa began in the 19th century. European dealing in Africa - trading European cloth for gold, spices, and eventually slaves - began well before Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

There is a pretty sizable debate on this very subject. One book that has generated a lot of discussion is:

How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney

Another book is:

Africa and Africans in the Making of the Atlantic World by John Thornton

Both of these books deal with (sub-Saharan) Africa before the arrival of European traders and slavers and the impact that they eventually had on African community, family, demographics, and government.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

I know you are not serious about educating yourself on this subject but this book is a great start.

The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality:Amazon:Books

So your support of the notion that colonial Europe destroyed a modern civilized Africa is a book on the theory that ancient Egyptians were "black"?

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

Pussy Riot would argue differently about Russia. And no shit, we live in a free country you racist fascist idiot

So PussyRiot believes Russia has changed and cast off its true Soviet values?

I have no sympathy for them. Starting a "protest" butt naked in a church is unacceptable, even in 'merica. Try that in a Saudi Mosque and see how well that flys? Got kids to feed? Shouldn't be out protesting then, huh? Sounds more like a publicity stunt gone wrong.

Fascists were actually left wing socialists enforcing their "change" upon the world. Hitler would have loved to have some drones so he could just kill any German Citizen and their 12 year old son he wanted too for speaking out against him....

Racist? Please do tell...

I'm glad your always so civil to jump to name calling and unsubstantiated personnel insults.

I guess I hit a raw nerve, God, what would McCarthy say about those Mao posters in your college dorm.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by JimCrom

Proper European colonization of Africa began in the 19th century. European dealing in Africa - trading European cloth for gold, spices, and eventually slaves - began well before Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

There is a pretty sizable debate on this very subject. One book that has generated a lot of discussion is:

How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney

Another book is:

Africa and Africans in the Making of the Atlantic World by John Thornton

Both of these books deal with (sub-Saharan) Africa before the arrival of European traders and slavers and the impact that they eventually had on African community, family, demographics, and government.

Thanks. I was trying to think of "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" by Walter Rodney but African Origins came out. People should read both books in conjunction though.

[1 88 U]

Originally Posted by Corbic

So PussyRiot believes Russia has changed and cast off its true Soviet values?

I have no sympathy for them. Starting a "protest" butt naked in a church is unacceptable, even in 'merica. Try that in a Saudi Mosque and see how well that flys? Got kids to feed? Shouldn't be out protesting then, huh? Sounds more like a publicity stunt gone wrong.

Fascists were actually left wing socialists enforcing their "change" upon the world. Hitler would have loved to have some drones so he could just kill any German Citizen and their 12 year old son he wanted too for speaking out against him....

Racist? Please do tell...

I'm glad your always so civil to jump to name calling and unsubstantiated personnel insults.

I guess I hit a raw nerve, God, what would McCarthy say about those Mao posters in your college dorm.

No sympathy for a feminist rock band protesting against the Putin administration and Russian Orthodox Church and getting 2 years in a harsh prison for political activism?

You are just proving my case. Lets add sexist to that list.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

No sympathy for a feminist rock band protesting against the Putin administration and Russian Orthodox Church and getting 2 years in a harsh prison for political activism?

You are just proving my case. Lets add sexist to that list.

Sexist would imply had they been males I'd be outraged and because they are not, I am not.

I could careless. They where not convicted because of their beliefs, but because of their actions. Even in America you can't storm into the middle of a church ceremony, butt-naked and start screaming "Fuck Bush, Al Gore Won!!! Long live Global Warming! "

Why should anyone be surprised or feel bad? You live in a repressive country, do something stupid for attention and are....OH MY FUCKING GOD!!!


*Wait for it*


REPRESSED!!!??!!



If they had been giving lectures at a university, writing articles in the newspaper, posting a blog - okay, yeah, it'd be bullshit. But running around naked at church and making a scene is just stupid and asking for the wrath of the conservative powers at be.

[1 88 U]

Please go on... You're doing a great job. Do you have anything offensive to say about Jews so we can add anti-semite? You are one "Jew bankers" conspiracy comment away for storm fronter terratory.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

Please go on... You're doing a great job. Do you have anything offensive to say about Jews so we can add anti-semite? You are one "Jew bankers" conspiracy comment away for storm fronter terratory.

So your plan is to just keep throwing out insults and personnel attacks until something sticks?

You'd do well in politics, or grammar school.

[1 88 U]

You suggested that Africans were no better off before European colonialism. Racist.

You advocated for Mcarthy like prosecution of free speech. Facist.

You insulted feminist civil disobidiance and are unsympathetic to their unjust incarceration. Sexist

You are a anti-Semite comment away from a neo-Nazi political philosophy. Come on, I know you have it in you.

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

You suggested that Africans were no better off before European colonialism. Racist.

You advocated for Mcarthy like prosecution of free speech. Facist.

You insulted feminist civil disobidiance and are unsympathetic to their unjust incarceration. Sexist

You are a anti-Semite comment away from a neo-Nazi political philosophy. Come on, I know you have it in you.

I don't normally like to butt in to political bullshit, but did you even bother to read his responses?

Racist would be him saying he doesn't like Africans because of their race. He did not.
Sexist would be him saying he would support their acts if if they were males. He did not.

I really don't care to go back and look at the other parts that you brought up, but just from what I've read on this page it just seems you're making shit up to make him look bad and invalidate his arguments.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

You suggested that Africans were no better off before European colonialism. Racist.

Clearly you don't know what the "ists" mean.

"Better off" and "modern civilization" are two different things. Regardless only if I had said "because they are not white is why it sucks" would it be racist.

It's not racist to state "most of the world failed to keep pace with European development post 1500 - what resulted was an economically, militarily powerful Europe capable of enforcing its will on other less developed regions"

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

You advocated for Mcarthy like prosecution of free speech. Facist.

Sorry but communism goes against our very culture, way of life and existence. Joining the Communist party is not any more a "matter of free speech" than joining Al Qaeda. Watch go join Al Qaeda and start preaching about Shira law and see how long before Obama shoves a hellfire missile up your ass.

Go read up on Fascism, I don't think you have the slightest clue what it's is other than "omg people that tell you what to do!"

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

You insulted feminist civil disobidiance and are unsympathetic to their unjust incarceration. Sexist

Are you stupid? This has been addressed. Do you know what "sexist" even means? I think Justin Beiber's music sucks... Must make me a racist, right?

Originally Posted by 1 88 U

You are a anti-Semite comment away from a neo-Nazi political philosophy. Come on, I know you have it in you.

I think you are the anti-Semite. At no period in this entire thread have Jews been mentioned and here you are now screaming lunacies about Nazis and Jewish bankers? You are just dribbling inflammatory rhetoric and insults.

I once again implore you to review you "ist" insults and find real examples. At no point were any statements made related to the race, religion or genders of people as cause, reasons or justifications for events.

Grow up already

[gbaby2089]

I haven't seen any racism, fascism, sexism out of Corbic.

I'm sure Corbic will agree that we haven't agreed on much in this thread, but I'd say we've all been quite civil in this discussion. This is honestly one of the best political discussion threads I've ever seen on a car forum.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

I haven't seen any racism, fascism, sexism out of Corbic.

I'm sure Corbic will agree that we haven't agreed on much in this thread, but I'd say we've all been quite civil in this discussion. This is honestly one of the best political discussion threads I've ever seen on a car forum.

Well thank you.

I agree as well on your second point. I'm surprised this didn't turn into a "meme" thread long ago.


Alas, Godwin still holds true....damn Nazis.

[Phlip]

Godwin’s Law is absolute, even in the most civil of discourses. This one has gotten testy at times, but surprisingly has resisted going to shit.
I am not one to go saying names, but I think we can all thank our lucky stars that that Origin guy hasn’t been around lately

[Highway Riding]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

Do you really think the President can change the economy?

When Romney utters the word rates and an end to capital gains I say yes then as President Mitt would be able to turn around the economy rather quickly. The day he takes office all the uncertainty will end as to where America is headed. I would imagine the mkts would react positively as well as in the current state the mkts are stuck with investors sitting on they're hands. I understand it is hard for some to grasp how important consumer confidence is to a growing economy but the fact of the matter is that continuing with the current policies will contribute to the current stalemate and as a result a worse economic situation that we are in now. Sure healthcare is great but no one is jumping for joy. Tackling healthcare when the money flow has dried up was bad 4 years ago and is bad now. Especially since the POTUS made no mention of a change in the employment sector which would show a move in the right direction. Romney's latest tax plan is pretty bold!

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by Highway Riding

When Romney utters the word rates and an end to capital gains I say yes then as President Mitt would be able to turn around the economy rather quickly. The day he takes office all the uncertainty will end as to where America is headed. I would imagine the mkts would react positively as well as in the current state the mkts are stuck with investors sitting on they're hands. I understand it is hard for some to grasp how important consumer confidence is to a growing economy but the fact of the matter is that continuing with the current policies will contribute to the current stalemate and as a result a worse economic situation that we are in now. Sure healthcare is great but no one is jumping for joy. Tackling healthcare when the money flow has dried up was bad 4 years ago and is bad now. Especially since the POTUS made no mention of a change in the employment sector which would show a move in the right direction. Romney's latest tax plan is pretty bold!

So the stock market is the ideal indicator of the economy?

[gbaby2089]

Highway Riding, a couple things:

What will Romney do to inspire consumer confidence?
What's wrong with health care, I feel like you are misinterpreting the health care plan put forward by the Dems.

And may I just say this:

Romney said he'd get the country energy independent in 8 years.

If any of y'all can prove to me its even remotely possible, I'll throw an e-high five your way.

[Highway Riding]

Specifically by modifying tax codes and putting together a really restructured plan instead of extending the Bush era tax cuts which just prolongs the inevitable as opposed to either making them permanent or gone all together. Now as for the health plan itself, it's a noble and great thing to have healthcare for all. But the means by which it is imposed doesn't make it desirable to have a large company or in our case to expand. 6 years ago and this wouldn't be an issue at all. Now this looking at this from a Jobs perspective. I just happen to work in a industry which has been dramatically effected by the lack of overall economic growth, consumer confidence, general uncertainty. Now energy is another topic which i am not that knowledgeable.

[gbaby2089]

So you think Romney's tax plans will end all the uncertainty in America's economy, however...it seems that there is significant uncertainty within the Romney camp on this very issue. Dude goes from pole to pole every other time he's seen.

[Phlip]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

So you think Romney's tax plans will end all the uncertainty in America's economy, however...it seems that there is significant uncertainty within the Romney camp on this very issue. Dude goes from pole to pole every other time he's seen.

He went pole to pole in 15 minutes last night
On one hand, he "will create 12 million jobs," and then on the other hand "government does not create jobs."
His actions of those of a man who will tell the American public ANYTHING they want to hear if it means they will elect him so he can attempt to do NONE of it. It seems to have been the calling card of his rise to the nomination as well.

I am of the opinion that this is why he won't get into specifics, even when faced with the FACT that none of his numbers match or make sense. He won't go into specifics because apparently what he has planned will be totally unrecognizable when compared to the talk he is talking.

[TheWolf]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

Gotta love that racism/stereotypes.

Kenya (and the rest of Africa) is not filled with heathens running around shooting one another, you realize the Europeans took that continent back hundreds of years when they colonized it, yes?

It's not a sterotype if it's in google maps.

Getting a gun in Chicago quick and easy - Chicago Sun-Times

Note 5% of crimes in chicago are done with rifles so the FIRST thing we need to fix this is to outlaw 4 position stocks on AR-15's. Never mind that it's almost impossible to legally own a hand gun in chicago.


As to "colonialism" taking the continent back 100 years. That's crap. Everyone on this earth started out with the same resources. No civilization has ever come out of africa. Stable water, stable food, stable population growth. Not one country. Even Obama's half brother says "Maybe kenya should have let the whites stay another 30 years, look how well south africa is doing".

[gbaby2089]

Originally Posted by TheWolf

It's not a sterotype if it's in google maps.

Getting a gun in Chicago quick and easy - Chicago Sun-Times

Note 5% of crimes in chicago are done with rifles so the FIRST thing we need to fix this is to outlaw 4 position stocks on AR-15's. Never mind that it's almost impossible to legally own a hand gun in chicago.


As to "colonialism" taking the continent back 100 years. That's crap. Everyone on this earth started out with the same resources. No civilization has ever come out of africa. Stable water, stable food, stable population growth. Not one country. Even Obama's half brother says "Maybe kenya should have let the whites stay another 30 years, look how well south africa is doing".

I will not begin to dignify that with a response. I'm disgusted. I don't know if the educational system has failed you or if you have failed your country.

EDIT: Just noticed you're from Florida...it all makes sense.

[Highway Riding]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

So you think Romney's tax plans will end all the uncertainty in America's economy, however...it seems that there is significant uncertainty within the Romney camp on this very issue. Dude goes from pole to pole every other time he's seen.

Yes i do. I think more of the same is 100% unacceptable as the POTUS clearly thinks we are on the right path. I disagree as do alot of Americans who see racial divide, un employment rise and a administration who wants to dictate rather then govern. Again When you remove capitol gains it is clearly evident that alone would ignite activity.. cut wasteful gov programs etc.. and you will start to head in a positive direction. But for anyone to think Mitt would do nothing and say that allowed really shows ur BIAS! There is a reason the POTUS uttered the words Romney care and said I know Mitt is a good man in the last debate. I wonder how a man who does nothing became so successful! And please when people talk about Bain and folks loosing Jobs let's focus on the 1000 jobs saved vs the 10 lost!

[gbaby2089]

Your post addressed none of the things in my post.

Obviously Romney will do things, but he will not do great things or even try to do so.

Your post seems to say that you think a trickle down economy is the only way to fix the economy. Everyone would like to cut wasteful programs, you just really don't seem to realize how difficult that is.

Just because Mitt could run one state decently (although Massachusetts is probably one of the easiest states to be governor of, dat Kennedy factor) does not mean he'll run the US well.

You definitely don't understand what Bain Capital was.

I end this with a quote that applies to Romney (and Obama to be fair, just less so):

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly." -Robert F. Kennedy

[Highway Riding]

Originally Posted by gbaby2089

You definitely don't understand what Bain Capital was.

Please elaborate How so? Wait! Ya know actually I honestly don't give 2 craps now that i think of it. Not gonna get dragged into a tit for tat! I see where this is going. please ignore my posts and carry on!

For the record my SIMPLE MINDED BAIN comments are for the SIMPLE minded!

[KA24DESOneThree]

Originally Posted by JimCrom

I can see that you are averse to accepting direct government-financed handouts and subsidies.

But how do you feel about indirect?

Part of our taxes go into services like ambulances, cops, fire departments, and college scholarships.

Part of our taxes also go into providing subsidies to oil companies. Do you use gas in your 240SX? If so you are benefiting from a government subsidy.

Do you eat food with corn or corn byproducts? What about soy or soy byproducts? A lot of tax revenue goes into subsidizing mid-western, god-fearing, shot-gun-totting, salt-of-the-earth farmers.

You mentioned insurance as one way to shake our dependence on government-run fire departments. The insurance industry also receives subsidies from the government.

I think the observation still holds weight that those arguing that government could go away tomorrow, and they would be fine, fail to recognize how interconnected all facets of our society have become.

How do I feel about indirect handouts? I despise them as much as, and sometimes more than, direct handouts. They're the equivalent of a backroom handshake followed by the placement of an envelope of cash in a coat pocket. They are, however, nearly impossible to get around currently but the argument that the various industries would collapse without the handouts is absurd.

I do not believe in government fire, EMT or scholarship programs and services. As I said in one of my previous posts, I have not figured out how to make private policing work without serious concerns about corruption and cost. The government wants the monopoly; it allows them to tax us and to justify the cost of living under the umbrella of the State.

Fuel does not have to be subsidized. It is an extremely necessary commodity, and as such there will always be demand. Only the corrupt would actually help those companies make more money. However, we could deregulate and lower costs to the consumer, solving the problem of oil subsidies to help the poor. We could deregulate and actually reduce emissions and our impact on the environment. Isn't that the goal, to lower costs, reduce emissions, reduce our impact on the environment and reduce our dependence on foreign oil? Why is our government preventing that? Why don't we have higher octane fuel or higher cetane diesel so we can make engines with higher volumetric efficiency?

Government does not need to subsidize crops. The cost increase must be borne by the consumer; the government subsidizes them to suppress the fact that purchasing power goes down due to the inflation inherent in a fiat money supply. The government also drives up the cost of corn by requiring its use as an automotive fuel; it's cleaner but less efficient than gasoline. Does it make sense to fund something that's essentially a green wash with government subsidies that end up costing taxpayers more than just their taxes by increasing the cost of living?

The insurance companies may receive subsidies- but that is due to the corruption of politicians as well as a broken legal system and sub-par contractors, consumer electronics, home care, drivers, doctors, education, etc. The confluence of factors have broken the system and have made efficiency nigh impossible.

The very problem is that everything is so interconnected. The leviathan has its tentacles in every aspect of daily life. The leviathan has increased prices in certain areas and decreased them in others; we have no idea what anything honestly costs.

We have to start cutting off those tentacles. Mittens ain't gonna do it, and the Obamanator ain't gonna do it (Estimates place increases in federal deficit at $4.9t and $5.9t respectively). Once again, our choices are a giant douche and a turd sandwich ("Douche and Turd" Episode 8, Season 8, South Park). Our choices are always going to be between a giant douche and a turd sandwich as long as politics can be a career choice and as long as we refuse to participate and keep track of what's going on in our state capitals, as well as our national one.

The vast majority of people I talk to are disenfranchised with the government but have no interest in paying attention to the decisions with which they disagree. They have no intentions of caring about their fellow man while they're busy making ends meet. If only we could have "Dancing with the Electorate," in which politicians have to duck and weave through intelligent discourse with their educated constituents. The politician who can ignore the most rational arguments and convince the most people that he's actually there for them gets hit by a passing bus. The one who actually concedes points and drafts proper petitions and bills gets a 10% raise and a box full of puppies.

[ineedone]

OOOOOO Time to have some fun!

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

How do I feel about indirect handouts? I despise them as much as, and sometimes more than, direct handouts. They're the equivalent of a backroom handshake followed by the placement of an envelope of cash in a coat pocket. They are, however, nearly impossible to get around currently but the argument that the various industries would collapse without the handouts is absurd.

It is not absurd. If it was, those companies would not spend hundreds of millions of dollars lobbying for that money (the best investment a corporation can make is in lobbying, I believe the return is around 20,000%). One thing that is true about D.C. is that when the pie gets smaller (money) industry hires more lobbyist. It’s a bit paradoxical, but yeah, when the economy sucks for most people, K street kicks ass. So much so, that the metro area now has the most millionaires per capita! Suck it rest of the country!

Forget Stocks Or Bonds, Invest In A Lobbyist : Planet Money : NPR

Most Millionaires Per Capita: MD | NBC4 Washington

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

I do not believe in government fire, EMT or scholarship programs and services. As I said in one of my previous posts, I have not figured out how to make private policing work without serious concerns about corruption and cost. The government wants the monopoly; it allows them to tax us and to justify the cost of living under the umbrella of the State.

Hm, Karachi seems to have figured it out. This is exactly what you are talking about, take a read, a watch, come back and tell me you want private security forces for all… Yay pure capitalism!

The VICE Guide to Karachi | The VICE Guide to Travel | VICE

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Fuel does not have to be subsidized. It is an extremely necessary commodity, and as such there will always be demand. Only the corrupt would actually help those companies make more money. However, we could deregulate and lower costs to the consumer, solving the problem of oil subsidies to help the poor. We could deregulate and actually reduce emissions and our impact on the environment. Isn't that the goal, to lower costs, reduce emissions, reduce our impact on the environment and reduce our dependence on foreign oil? Why is our government preventing that? Why don't we have higher octane fuel or higher cetane diesel so we can make engines with higher volumetric efficiency?

Well, you are wrong. It is extremely expensive and dangerous to get oil and turn it into fuel/gasoline. Without the subsidies the companies would be obliterated. BP for example… if they did not receive that massive subsidies from the US Government, they would be out of business. Now we can argue the merit to that… but that is a lot of jobs so… yeah. Think about it. Regulation/Deregulations misses the mark. What you need is regulation that is tied to value. BP was regulated heavily in some areas, and not regulated in others… they destroyed an entire industry, an entire ecosystem, and the effects will last for decades. Clearly, there was not sufficient regulation. The gas powered engine was outdated over 100 years ago… the only reason it is still around is because it is in the best interest of oil companies. Again, you put all those companies out… well… entire economies collapse. It is a catch 22, we need to get off oil, but we are unwilling to subsidize other industries in the way we have oil. Without that type of government investment/protection those other industries have no chance against the mega industry that oil is. It is the equivalent of trying to open a boutique clothing store/grocery store next to a Walmart, you will not be able to compete not matter how great your product is.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

Government does not need to subsidize crops. The cost increase must be borne by the consumer; the government subsidizes them to suppress the fact that purchasing power goes down due to the inflation inherent in a fiat money supply. The government also drives up the cost of corn by requiring its use as an automotive fuel; it's cleaner but less efficient than gasoline. Does it make sense to fund something that's essentially a green wash with government subsidies that end up costing taxpayers more than just their taxes by increasing the cost of living?

Without the subsidy, mega Corp/farms like Monsanto would own 99-100% of all farms. It is unaffordable to run a modern farm without a subsidy. If the government were to allow all farms essentially be taken over (not that already have been – only 5 companies produce most of the food we eat) you would collapse the Midwest working poor. What are those people going to do? They would not be able to afford the land they own. In estate planning there are special provisions to allow deductions for farm lands just for this reason. People live on million dollar farms, but can only produce 40k in crop. They can not afford the taxes on the land, and this land is not necessarily in great demand. What do you do? Looks like you did not consider most of the issue at all.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

The insurance companies may receive subsidies- but that is due to the corruption of politicians as well as a broken legal system and sub-par contractors, consumer electronics, home care, drivers, doctors, education, etc. The confluence of factors have broken the system and have made efficiency nigh impossible.

What? Again, insurance companies received a crap load of subsidies. For instance, tort reform is a form of government subsidy. If we were to allow juries to decide monetary outcomes on insurance claim cases, no insurance company would exist. The simple reason is that a group of 12 middle/lower income jurors will always find against a large corporation. Further, depending on the case (like say the death of a child) the amount of money a jury of like peers will award would be infinite. Seems like you don’t know what you are talking about.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

The very problem is that everything is so interconnected. The leviathan has its tentacles in every aspect of daily life. The leviathan has increased prices in certain areas and decreased them in others; we have no idea what anything honestly costs.

Ahh, a Mark Levine fan? That explains it. Carry on and keep believing there is a monster out there trying to get you.

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

We have to start cutting off those tentacles. Mittens ain't gonna do it, and the Obamanator ain't gonna do it (Estimates place increases in federal deficit at $4.9t and $5.9t respectively). Once again, our choices are a giant douche and a turd sandwich ("Douche and Turd" Episode 8, Season 8, South Park). Our choices are always going to be between a giant douche and a turd sandwich as long as politics can be a career choice and as long as we refuse to participate and keep track of what's going on in our state capitals, as well as our national one.

What do you actually know about deficits? And please explain to me how any national government operates without them. (that is rhetorical, because you will not be able to)

Originally Posted by KA24DESOneThree

The vast majority of people I talk to are disenfranchised with the government but have no interest in paying attention to the decisions with which they disagree. They have no intentions of caring about their fellow man while they're busy making ends meet. If only we could have "Dancing with the Electorate," in which politicians have to duck and weave through intelligent discourse with their educated constituents. The politician who can ignore the most rational arguments and convince the most people that he's actually there for them gets hit by a passing bus. The one who actually concedes points and drafts proper petitions and bills gets a 10% raise and a box full of puppies.

Well, that’s stupid. The people you talk to probably are all like you. You talk to any police officers? Nurses? Social Workers? Camp Counselors? I dunno, anyone in the service industry that actually likes their job? No one cares about their fellow man? That has to be the most asinine statement I have ever heard.


I still stand by my 5 round UFC Championship Title Fight for the Presidency. I like the more athletic current champ Baraka Flocka Barry “BObama” vs. the Lumpy MOAR!man Mittens “The Mit” Romney.