The Future Automotive Thread

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Matej

A used Lotus Elise is a nice car.

At that point why not just get a Race Replica, I think they have more crash protection anyways...

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by Bobafreak

LOL as always drift freaq and his debates. ohh how i missed this guy... hahahaha
I just like how still theres no 240 in develop when i remember way yrs back everyone sore up and down of these concepts nissan had.

because years ago nissan DID have one in development. it looked like a G35, it was 4cyl, RWD, 3000lbs, shooting for the low 20s price range and was in clay ready to be shown in 2008 until the economy tanked, carlos ghosn shelved the project and nissan decided it would be a good idea to start work on an entry level coupe thats based on the Juke for 2014 (oh and reduce the Z to a 4 cylinder turbo that will still be priced in the low 30s because nissan are idiots)

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

because years ago nissan DID have one in development. it looked like a G35, it was 4cyl, RWD, 3000lbs, shooting for the low 20s price range and was in clay ready to be shown in 2008 until the economy tanked, carlos ghosn shelved the project and nissan decided it would be a good idea to start work on an entry level coupe thats based on the Juke for 2014 (oh and reduce the Z to a 4 cylinder turbo that will still be priced in the low 30s because nissan are idiots)

Here is some of the abortions I saw floating around a while back.














Modern car styling sucks ass. I'm glad these concepts where deposited in the nearest girls bathroom.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Here is some of the abortions I saw floating around a while back.



Modern car styling sucks ass. I'm glad these concepts where deposited in the nearest girls bathroom.

oi, the ONLY car that was a concept in ANY of those photos was the Nissan Foria (the blue car). the rest were all photoshopped images.

what i was referring to in my post had never been shown to the public and had never been leaked from nissan. i was getting my information from a source i had at nissan who was very high up the food chain.

[K_style]

Originally Posted by Corbic

No.



Maybe.



No.



No.



No.



No. .

No .

[future]

The silver one is a fat s2k in the back

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Time out partner. We are not talking about the Z33, we are talking about MY Z33. The car had terrible paint, bald tires, miss aligned hatch and an issue with the suspension in the rear (fender gap was different from side to side). I started suspected the car had been wrecked after I bought it but “CarCrap” came up clean before purchase. I had a JIC exhaust on it with the awesome Burt Orange seats and loved it – but all the problems drove me nuts. I would have had to repaint the whole car, have a body shop correct whatever the hell was going on in the rear, buy coil overs, new wheels (had RPF1s) and Tires - $4 -5,000 on a car barely worth 10k. No to mention after driving a friend’s with a lightened flywheel and stronger clutch it became torture to drive mine. I cut my losses and moved on.

If I was to do it again, I’d buy a Red or White HR and budget on wheels, coils and flywheel from the start. I still have my JIC. I think I’d be very happy, but I’d be near the 20’s with this set up and… well frack, I kinda want a 911SC as well. We’ll wait till next summer, the Z’s are only going to get cheaper.




See above. I wasn’t out to twin turbo it or swap in a RB26 or turbo LS1 or buy some $9,000 3pc 20” wheels. I just wanted nice paint, no body issues, a lighter flywheel and maybe some 18/19 Brazreias or something. Since I already have two money pits, I just cut my losses. It’ll be cheaper as time goes on to just buy the Z I want rather than trying to make mine into what I wanted.

(See original comment)




Check the Wiki man – “in 1979, during the oil crisis, management saw a market opportunity for a fuel efficient sporty commuter car, and design work on the Fiero commenced”. GM sold 370,168 Fieros in just 4 years. Was it a good car? No. Was it a sales success? Absolutely. Why GM killed it, beats me, changing market, financial issues, internal rivalries, safety and DOT changes ect.




I sorely disagree. The 911 still returns better performance numbers than the Cayman, solely based on the power train. There is no reason that Porsche could not offer a GT2/3/Turbo version of the Cayman other than it would tarnish the 911 storied histories and image. Porsche on average pulls 45% profit on all cars sold, they are not going to offer 911 Turbo beating performance at a fraction of the price. As for classic 911’s being a bear and over powered. Go drive one, most enthusiast will argue the 964 and 993 utterly destroyed the driving experience creating a more isolated, numb feeling car – by Porsche standards of course. 125hp is hardly “powerful”, and there was not a lot in the 60’s and 70’s that could touch it’s twisty performance.




Hardly. Your making some broad judgments based on the fact that I find the Genesis to be an abysmal car. They car is simply ugly. It’s fat, and the handling is very number. I drove one when they first came out and there was no way in hell I was going to trade my Z33 for one. I’m simply saying the only cars I found remotely attractive are ones with body kits (thus fixing the horrendous job Hyundai has done), significantly more power to make up for the Muscle Car weight, and obviously wheels always make a car. Take any car, put it on a good set of wheels and it will look better, if not completely transformed.

Ask me my opinion on the GT86 – only thing I’d do there is coils, RPF1’s and an exhaust with maybe a bumper lip down the road. Hell I doubt I’d even do real coils, maybe a ground-control + koni setup to make sure I don’t lose the stock finesse the car has while lowering it an inch or two. We all know not all coilovers do shit beyond lower a car and make it feel like it’s an ox cart.

Ok so you are basing your comments about the Z off the fact that you had a piece of crap Z. Therefor your comments are solely based on one example and a poor one at that.

Wiki may say they conned 370,000 people into believing in the Fiero. Fact is it was 1979 and people still wanted to believe America could still make a good car. At the time of which they were making complete shit. The Fiero was complete shit and should not even be brought up in this discussion.

On to the Cayman it is noted and well known in Sports car circles that its the best handling Porsche built. Sure the 911 will win on shear power numbers but once again you miss the point as do many around here. Power does not automatically equate a complete balanced car.

On and far as your comments about Porsches in the 70's please young man you were not even alive to experience what you are talking about . Have you ever driven a 70's Porsche? It was a handful to drive of course Vettes of the era were a handful even 240Z's even though all of them won repeatedly in racing. Though a 1968 Lotus Elan could still wipe the floor of any of them with its handling. Ever wonder why Miata's are what they are. They are direct copies of the 68 Elan with help from the fact that Mazda hired Lotus to help with the suspension of the Miata and the RX7.

Oh and by the way I hate the Genesis so the fact you have not picked up on that yet basically shows you have not really read anything .
Otherwise you would realize your comments about me getting down on your for hating the Genesis is the most ludicrous shit this side of the sun.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Ok so you are basing your comments about the Z off the fact that you had a piece of crap Z. Therefor your comments are solely based on one example and a poor one at that.

I think you are misconstruing the truth here. My original comments are “buy a car for what it is, not what it can be”. I suspect you would agree with this but are getting lost in some nitpicking. I sold the Z because it was not the Z I wanted. At no point did I complain about the Z-car or any of its abundant flaws or even say that they are bad cars.

Wiki may say they conned 370,000 people into believing in the Fiero. Fact is it was 1979 and people still wanted to believe America could still make a good car. At the time of which they were making complete shit. The Fiero was complete shit and should not even be brought up in this discussion.

They sold Fierros in the mid-80’s, 82-86 IIRC. I doubt it had anything to do with national loyalty and everything to do with the fact that it was a new, modern, mid-engine super car looking sporty coupe for cheap. Whether or not it will be in the record book as an SCCA champ or even a quality commuter is irrelevant. GM sold a shit ton. There are still rabid fans of the car building, modding and converting them. A GT with interior swap, engine swap and suspension work is a bad ass car.

On to the Cayman it is noted and well known in Sports car circles that it’s the best handling Porsche built. Sure the 911 will win on shear power numbers but once again you miss the point as do many around here. Power does not automatically equate a complete balanced car.

By “sports car circles” are you talking about the Illuminati or Motor Trend? Are you telling me a 911 Turbo is not a “balanced” car, or even a “Good handling” car? No one said “power equals balanced”, what I did say is if you gave the Cayman the same power a 911 has it will be a superior car in ALL performance aspects. That simply will not happen however, Porsche knows it must defend the 911’s honor.

On and far as your comments about Porsches in the 70's please young man you were not even alive to experience what you are talking about . Have you ever driven a 70's Porsche? It was a handful to drive of course Vettes of the era were a handful even 240Z's even though all of them won repeatedly in racing. Though a 1968 Lotus Elan could still wipe the floor of any of them with its handling. Ever wonder why Miata's are what they are. They are direct copies of the 68 Elan with help from the fact that Mazda hired Lotus to help with the suspension of the Miata and the RX7.

I keep forgetting you’re in your mid-80’s and helped develop the first Porsche Carrera. Not to mention the minute I was born all cars made prior simply vanished or at least some cosmic calamity occurred ensuring they would never be the same. I have driven SC’s and numerous 944’s. Hell I wanted a 944 long before I even heard of a 240sx. I just couldn’t afford a good 944 at the time, and bought a RX-7. After that popped I got the 240SX because of rising fuel prices.

You are arguing against your very own point that “fun” does not require “gobs of power and body kits”. Classic Porsche’s have nowhere near the same level of power as modern cars and in many cases cars of their own period. However, despite that, few cars are able to match the charisma, driver’s feedback and charm of these cars. They really do put the emphasis on you the driver and not machine, quite opposite to many of today’s super-sports cars. *cough GT-aRgh cough*

Oh and by the way I hate the Genesis so the fact you have not picked up on that yet basically shows you have not really read anything.
Otherwise you would realize your comments about me getting down on your for hating the Genesis is the most ludicrous shit this side of the sun.

Oh I realize you don’t like the Genni. However I also realize that when I said “it’d take 20k to get me to like it” you started on your “omfg Zilva and it’s obsession with bling and power” rant. The resulting conversation now takes us here.

[exitspeed]

And regarding the rumor of the RX7 I have literally not heard that rumor reiterated by any other source so I am skeptical.

And yes, all those "Silvia" concepts are just renderings done by a magazine. The only cars that Nissan hinted at a return with were the Floria, as stated by Lenn, and the Urge Concept.

[SimpleS14]

Hi-po Toyota GT86 to get KERS?

I would imagine Toyota to implement KERS in a higher end car (Supra?) before trickling it down to the GT86.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I think you are misconstruing the truth here. My original comments are “buy a car for what it is, not what it can be”. I suspect you would agree with this but are getting lost in some nitpicking. I sold the Z because it was not the Z I wanted. At no point did I complain about the Z-car or any of its abundant flaws or even say that they are bad cars.

I think what has happened as usual is you in your negative ways have made the truth not so clear. Perhap if you did complain as much people might understand better what you are trying to say.

Originally Posted by Corbic

They sold Fierros in the mid-80’s, 82-86 IIRC. I doubt it had anything to do with national loyalty and everything to do with the fact that it was a new, modern, mid-engine super car looking sporty coupe for cheap. Whether or not it will be in the record book as an SCCA champ or even a quality commuter is irrelevant. GM sold a shit ton. There are still rabid fans of the car building, modding and converting them. A GT with interior swap, engine swap and suspension work is a bad ass car.

Regardless of what you think I and many others feel the Fiero is a piece of shit always was and always will be. Now if you are so rabid about perhaps you should buy one and join the Fiero forums( are they out there? Don't answer that it. lol)

Originally Posted by Corbic

By “sports car circles” are you talking about the Illuminati or Motor Trend? Are you telling me a 911 Turbo is not a “balanced” car, or even a “Good handling” car? No one said “power equals balanced”, what I did say is if you gave the Cayman the same power a 911 has it will be a superior car in ALL performance aspects. That simply will not happen however, Porsche knows it must defend the 911’s honor.

Oh and give me a break on the I love everything Porsche bullshit. They have had their problems and are far from perfect. You do know the Carrera GT was only made 2 years because it was extremely ill handling and causing people to crash? Oh and wait don't answer that because I am sure you have some ignorant excuse without first hand knowledge to argue it.
Oh and ya I have allowed you to drag me into an off topic point because of your own unbridled love.

Originally Posted by Corbic

I keep forgetting you’re in your mid-80’s and helped develop the first Porsche Carrera. Not to mention the minute I was born all cars made prior simply vanished or at least some cosmic calamity occurred ensuring they would never be the same. I have driven SC’s and numerous 944’s. Hell I wanted a 944 long before I even heard of a 240sx. I just couldn’t afford a good 944 at the time, and bought a RX-7. After that popped I got the 240SX because of rising fuel prices.

Wow failing so hard here you have to try and attempt age insults? Just because I happen to know what I am talking about and technically you can't mount a decent counter argument? Once again you fail hard but ya I know you are good at that.


So you have driven 911's ? Then you would know they don't handle the best, not the worst but not perfect.
Oh and before the Cayman the 944 was one the best handling Porsche ever sold. It trounced the 911 in the handling department.

Originally Posted by Corbic

You are arguing against your very own point that “fun” does not require “gobs of power and body kits”. Classic Porsche’s have nowhere near the same level of power as modern cars and in many cases cars of their own period. However, despite that, few cars are able to match the charisma, driver’s feedback and charm of these cars. They really do put the emphasis on you the driver and not machine, quite opposite to many of today’s super-sports cars. *cough GT-aRgh cough*

Oh and I am not arguing against my point stop trying to put words in my mouth. Your unabashed Porsche I can't see anything wrong love has clearly blinded you to some basic truths about the cars. Its ok this happens when people love a certain brand we all have been guilty of it.

Wow come out and bash the GTR here funny you felt the need to do that it. Irrelevant comment in regards to the debate at hand. Hmm seems like your grasping for straws in a losing battle.

Originally Posted by Corbic

Oh I realize you don’t like the Genni. However I also realize that when I said “it’d take 20k to get me to like it” you started on your “omfg Zilva and it’s obsession with bling and power” rant. The resulting conversation now takes us here.

Hmm no it absolutely nothing to do with that comment. In fact I completely ignored that comment. LOL
It had everything to do with other comments you did make.

It also had nothing to do with Zilvia because quite honestly most Zilvian's these days won't spend jack shit on on jack.

All my comment about the FRS/BRZ was meant to say was it was a pretty decent of balance and power and that was not a bad thing. Whatever you construed it into was on you. Its comical that you did construe so much out of it.

But then again people can say they have changed. Like you said in the private apology P.M.s you sent to premie members. Yet you have proven here and in other posts recently that you continue to be an ass.

Now with that said we can return to the discussion of cars like the FRS/BRZ (Remember its a Future 240 or RWD thread or did you forget that? ) since you have so gloriously derailed the discussion with your defensive love of Porsches and Fiero's which really don't figure in the discussion anyway.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

Hi-po Toyota GT86 to get KERS?

I would imagine Toyota to implement KERS in a higher end car (Supra?) before trickling it down to the GT86.

I would agree to this. Maybe LFA first then much later GT86. I find myself hating and disagreeing whole heartedly with this comment

"I think 300bhp with a turbo and 200g/km of CO2 would be tasteless in this day and age. And a turbo would mean the loss of the GT86's uniqueness."

I wouldn't want it to have 300 crank from the factory. Maybe like 250HP to keep price down. I just cannot believe he feels that adding a turbo to a car like this would make it lose it's uniqueness. If anything it would make it more unique. It's not like there are a lot of RWD turbo cars that weigh under 3000lb be over 200HP, and handle the way it does.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

I think what has happened as usual is you in your negative ways have made the truth not so clear. Perhap if you did complain as much people might understand better what you are trying to say.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Regardless of what you think I and many others feel the Fiero is a piece of shit always was and always will be. Now if you are so rabid about perhaps you should buy one and join the Fiero forums( are they out there? Don't answer that it. lol)

The arguement was not what you thought of them, it was if it was a success or failure. Whether you approve of the car or not does not define the level of success the car acheived. Don't be so negative.

Pennock's Fiero Forum - Main Page

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Oh and give me a break on the I love everything Porsche bullshit. They have had their problems and are far from perfect. You do know the Carrera GT was only made 2 years because it was extremely ill handling and causing people to crash? Oh and wait don't answer that because I am sure you have some ignorant excuse without first hand knowledge to argue it.
Oh and ya I have allowed you to drag me into an off topic point because of your own unbridled love.

I'm sure you are right on the Carrera GT. I've never had any interest in the car, not even enough to know what engine it has or power output.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Wow failing so hard here you have to try and attempt age insults? Just because I happen to know what I am talking about and technically you can't mount a decent counter argument? Once again you fail hard but ya I know you are good at that.

Actually you brought up the age bit - not once, but twice.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

LOL now this where you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. You were not even alive when the Fiero came out. LOL I knew someone who bought one. I got to drive those pieces of shit.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

On and far as your comments about Porsches in the 70's please young man you were not even alive to experience what you are talking about . Have you ever driven a 70's Porsche?

Originally Posted by drift freaq

So you have driven 911's ? Then you would know they don't handle the best, not the worst but not perfect.
Oh and before the Cayman the 944 was one the best handling Porsche ever sold. It trounced the 911 in the handling department.

Already stated I have, I should have been more clear - 911SC. I've been toying the idea of picking one up for over a year now. Still on the fence, I don't want or need another project. I also agree that the 944 is fantastic, never argued that.

Originally Posted by Corbic

I have driven SC’s and numerous 944’s. Hell I wanted a 944 long before I even heard of a 240sx.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Oh and I am not arguing against my point stop trying to put words in my mouth. Your unabashed Porsche I can't see anything wrong love has clearly blinded you to some basic truths about the cars. Its ok this happens when people love a certain brand we all have been guilty of it.

I concede.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Wow come out and bash the GTR here funny you felt the need to do that it. Irrelevant comment in regards to the debate at hand. Hmm seems like your grasping for straws in a losing battle.

Not bashing, simply stating that I don't measure a cars "handling" buy its performance numbers. Obviously the GTR trumps 99% of everything out there, however it will never have that raw mechanical feel that older cars like the 911, 240Z ect have. Maybe the term I should be using is "feel".

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Hmm no it absolutely nothing to do with that comment. In fact I completely ignored that comment. LOL
It had everything to do with other comments you did make.

...ok

Originally Posted by drift freaq

It also had nothing to do with Zilvia because quite honestly most Zilvian's these days won't spend jack shit on on jack.

Rick James moment?

Originally Posted by drift freaq

You are like typical Zilvian's obessed with having huge gobs of power and body kits.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

All my comment about the FRS/BRZ was meant to say was it was a pretty decent of balance and power and that was not a bad thing. Whatever you construed it into was on you. Its comical that you did construe so much out of it.

Agreed - I'm not challenging your opinion on the FRZ - just this one -

Originally Posted by drift freaq

You are like typical Zilvian's obessed with having huge gobs of power and body kits.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

But then again people can say they have changed. Like you said in the private apology P.M.s you sent to premie members. Yet you have proven here and in other posts recently that you continue to be an ass.

Actually that was just you, and it was not because I intend to stoping being a passionate, brash enthusiastic enthusiast, but because I taken your crankiness way to personally and began throwing shit fits at you in everything thread we shared with immature personal attacks.

While we certainly had a lengthy disagreement in this thread, I would hope you feel as I, that neither of us have been rude, insultive or mean spirited. I think it's a core foundation to become passionate about various car aspects as an enthusiast and argue about whats cooler, faster, better, funner ect - the internet just quickly warps arguments because of the inability to truly gauge the level of disagreement, sarcasm, dramatics ect.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Now with that said we can return to the discussion of cars like the FRS/BRZ (Remember its a Future 240 or RWD thread or did you forget that? ) since you have so gloriously derailed the discussion with your defensive love of Porsches and Fiero's which really don't figure in the discussion anyway.

Actually it was my defense of the Feirro.

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Remember that supposed was going to be great mid engined nightmare in the 80's, that used off the shelf garbage parts. Think no more. lol

[0100]

I always thought this fiero in forza looked proper.

[DreamN]

I'd rock those fieros

[exitspeed]

Yeah, those two are dope.

[Future240]

I'd tap that.

[Bambi]

Good God, I would hump a bear trap for those cars.

[dorkidori_s13]

guys, theyre still fieros...just because they look sexy doesnt mean theyre still not herpes infested gutter slut garbage under the hood *facepalm*

[K_style]

It's hard to believe those are Fieros...

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

guys, theyre still fieros...just because they look sexy doesnt mean theyre still not herpes infested gutter slut garbage under the hood *facepalm*

Nothing a 8JZGTTTTSCE can't solve pal.

[ditchs14]

or just put a newer 3.8 in them

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by ditchs14

or just put a newer 3.8 in them

or just buy an MR2 lol

[Future240]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

just because they look sexy doesnt mean theyre still not herpes infested gutter slut garbage under the hood *facepalm*

So basically its a 240sx?

[XxHybridx]

Originally Posted by Future240

So basically its a 240sx?

Was thinking the same thing as I read his post -.-;

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

guys, theyre still fieros...just because they look sexy doesnt mean theyre still not herpes infested gutter slut garbage under the hood *facepalm*

Yes, because no one ever swaps engines in their Fieros.



No one does suspension work either - CC Nationals.

[Corbic]

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by dorkidori_s13

or just buy an MR2 lol

Which? No arguing a SW20 is a better car, it is. But they also go for $4-10k. I'm not sure what a GT goes for anymore, but my buddies first car was a non-running GT for $400. He swapped in a 3.8 in an afternoon for another $400, new tires, registered and insured it all for under $1,500.
Boy was that thing loud and mean with open headers.

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by Future240

So basically its a 240sx?

YES!!! lol

[dorkidori_s13]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Which? No arguing a SW20 is a better car, it is. But they also go for $4-10k. I'm not sure what a GT goes for anymore, but my buddies first car was a non-running GT for $400. He swapped in a 3.8 in an afternoon for another $400, new tires, registered and insured it all for under $1,500.
Boy was that thing loud and mean with open headers.

im not EVEN gonna get into this debate